Negotiations between Saints, Bush agent to heat up
 

[url=http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2530925]ESPN.com - NFL - Negotiations between Saints, Bush agent to heat up[/url]

Reggie Bush is looking for #1 pick money, I always hate it when someone who doesn't go #1 thinks they can ask for #1 money. And isn't this the wrong city to be doing this in??

Re: Negotiations between Saints, Bush agent to heat up
 

I agree. When he sucks next year, I hope he still thinks he deserves that money.

Re: Negotiations between Saints, Bush agent to heat up
 

I don't understand whats wrong with no. 2 money. It's not like the Saints are going to be giving him scraps. No. 2 money is like 54 mil over 6 years with about 20 mil guarenteed. What's wrong with that? What the heck are you gonna do with the difference that you can't already do?

Re: Negotiations between Saints, Bush agent to heat up
 

Maybe the Texans were smart not to take him. He would have probably demanded a Peyton-like contract.

On a side note, what's the status with Rocky? Has he signed yet?

Re: Negotiations between Saints, Bush agent to heat up
 

[quote=GTripp0012]I don't understand whats wrong with no. 2 money. It's not like the Saints are going to be giving him scraps. No. 2 money is like 54 mil over 6 years with about 20 mil guarenteed. What's wrong with that? What the heck are you gonna do with the difference that you can't already do?[/quote]

well according to the texans...thats No. 1 money...cuz thats what Mario got....I still think top Picks should be given incentive deals...where the salary will be boosted if first/second year play is above average....there are way to many first rounders getting bloated deals then doing terrible on the field!!!

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[QUOTE=TheMalcolmConnection]I agree. When he sucks next year, I hope he still thinks he deserves that money.[/QUOTE]

EGO EGO EGO! This kid is the next TO.

I started disliking the guy a month before the draft. First the press started talking about him like he is the next Jim Brown. Then he lied and denied the situation about his parents living in a million dollar home paid for by agents, while he was still at USC. Notice that investgation is getting white washed and swept under the rug.

I know the NFL and the Press are all about offense and this kid is their new wet dream. However I am not so sure a 5' 9" and 195lbs rb is going to be an every down RB in the NFL. Plus, I can't wait to see the first time Bush tries to block a premier blitzing LB, his ego will quickly come back down to earth.

The Texans were smart to avoid this headache of a player. The kid is WAY overrated for never have played in the NFL. The contract system for rookies has to change.

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He doesn't deserve #1 money. A #1 pick is meant to have an immediate impact. Bush will be sharing the backfield or even backing up Deuce McAllister, as he should be. If he holds out, he should be relegated to the bench until Deuce needs to catch his breath after a long run.

Between this selfish whining and his request for a rule change just for him (uniform #)...he's earning a spot on my "can't stand you" list.

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[quote=Buster]He doesn't deserve #1 money. A #1 pick is meant to have an immediate impact. Bush will be sharing the backfield or even backing up Deuce McAllister, as he should be. If he holds out, he should be relegated to the bench until Deuce needs to catch his breath after a long run.

Between this selfish whining and his request for a rule change just for him (uniform #)...he's earning a spot on my "can't stand you" list.[/quote]

I agree with you Buster but for the sake of argument his contract should also reflect the financial gain his presence will bring to the organization in the form of increased ticket sales, jerseys, etc.

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it has been rumored that the saints promised to pay him like he WAS the #1 pick in the draft.

i believe that rookies should have standard contract that last 2 or 3 years. that way they actually have to play for the big contract instead of just be given it because of where they were drafted.

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[quote=724Skinsfan]I agree with you Buster but for the sake of argument his contract should also reflect the financial gain his presence will bring to the organization in the form of increased ticket sales, jerseys, etc.[/quote]

I don't think it should. A lot of stores wouldn't carry many Saints jerseys, or multiple jerseys from many other teams. If someone outside of NO wants a Saints jersey, they go to the store and buy what's available. If they ONLY had a John Carney jersey and they just wanted a Saints jersey...that's what they'd take home.

It's not the organization's fault or the player's credit that the jersey manufacturers only pick a player or 2 from each team to mass produce. You can't say that everyone who buys a Reggie Bush jersey is buying it solely for his name or just because it's their favorite team. I once had a Ricky Sanders jersey because it was cheap and the only Skins jersey that store had. If I had my choice, I would've wanted a Monk or D. Green jersey, but I wasn't complaining about picking up ANY Redskins jersey. It didn't have a nameplate, so I later referred to it as an Albert Connell jersey and still wore it proudly because it was a Skins jersey period.

If stores sold all of the Saints players' jerseys, you can bet a lot of players other than Bush would be purchased, proving they're not buying the jersey because Reggie Bush is the only reason anyone supports the Saints...despite what his ego tells us.

I don't think merchandise sales should factor into salaries. I think only job performance should be compensated. Doug Flutie has always sold a lot of jerseys because HE is popular. Should he get a raise when he's the backup QB? I say no. Salaries should be based on on-field contributions. That's another reason I think there should be a rookie salary since they've done NOTHING on the field yet. Look at how much we paid for Heath Shuler!

Besides, do you think the Falcons are going to compensate Michael Vick for the enormous revenues from Ron Mexico merchandise? :D

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[quote=DaveyFoSho]well according to the texans...thats No. 1 money...cuz thats what Mario got....I still think top Picks should be given incentive deals...where the salary will be boosted if first/second year play is above average....there are way to many first rounders getting bloated deals then doing terrible on the field!!![/quote]You're right. I had 62 mil in my head for some reason. So no. 2 would be about 48 mil, 18.5 guarenteed. Thats still not chump change.

Re: Negotiations between Saints, Bush agent to heat up
 

[quote=DaveyFoSho]well according to the texans...thats No. 1 money...cuz thats what Mario got....I still think top Picks should be given incentive deals...where the salary will be boosted if first/second year play is above average....there are way to many first rounders getting bloated deals then doing terrible on the field!!![/quote]
didnt williams get like 27 million guaranteed

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[quote=GTripp0012]You're right. I had 62 mil in my head for some reason. So no. 2 would be about 48 mil, 18.5 guarenteed. Thats still not chump change.[/quote]

last year #2 (RB ronnie brown) got 20mill gauranteed and $34mill total. add 10% and that's still way short of the deal vince young just got.

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i say let him sit. his impact with the saints will not even be noticed. with his body frame and the way the players hit, i wouldnt be surprised if he wasnt injured early

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Two Words.
Prima Donna

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Jesus Christ, because the media thinks Reggie Bush will have a huge impact everyone wants to put him under a microscope? WTF? He asked if he could wear #5, so what?! The last time a rookie asked to wear a number that didn't agree with the NFL number system, the rules got changed and Keyshawn got to wear #19.

In addition, Vince Young could potentially make more than Mario Williams. So, it seems pretty logical that Reggie Bush get #1 pick money if it's not even as much as #3 pick money. Vince Young's deal includes incentives, as should Reggie's, but if he could make more than Mario Williams, why shouldn't Reggie be able to?

I mean, really. I don't know what everyone has against Reggie Bush. God forbid someone make a request of the league when they get drafted. God forbid a player's contract negotiations not go well with what is very possibly the worst organization in football. How about we talk about the positive shit he's done? He's jumped into the Katrina relief effort. He took a 1 page ad in the Times-Picayune after he went to dinner one night in New Orleans and got cheered. So, contract negotiations aren't going well, blame the player?

Tomlinson barley got signed before the first game of the season. Where was the infinite outrage from all of you then? How come the most owner favoring league in sports still has the players blamed for every single thing that happens with a contract?

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Oh, and btw, coming off of a torn ACL, McAllister won't be of much use to them. He'll still be able to carry the load, maybe, but the yards aren't going to be impressive. So, Reggie will probably have to be the main option for them. Like it or not.

What upsets me is that most of you don't like him because the media makes him out to be great. So, it is through no fault of his own that he's disliked.

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[QUOTE=Buster]
It's not the organization's fault or the player's credit that the jersey manufacturers only pick a player or 2 from each team to mass produce. You can't say that everyone who buys a Reggie Bush jersey is buying it solely for his name or just because it's their favorite team.
[/QUOTE]

The season ticket sales a day after the draft say otherwise. To discount Bush's impact on the rejuvenated interest in Saints' football in NO is naive. People can hate on him as much as they want or believe he has a big ego or think he won't produce on the field. But he's already brought a whole lot to the table even before he's stepped on the field. Joe Horn isn't on the cover of this season's NCAA video game. Drew Brees isn't selling ESPN cell phones on TV. Deuce McAllister didn't get Subway to design an entire sandwich marketing campaign around him. You don't think the Saints organization benefits from this type of hype? Tell me, did the Cleveland Cavaliers benefit a few days after Lebron James was drafted?

Reggie Bush and his agent are playing hardball because they can... his marketing appeal provides contract negotiation leverage. Now that Young has signed for his amount, Bush has even more leverage to get what he wants. Yet the outrage for Bush is much higher than that towards Young- and VY was drafted third!

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[QUOTE=itvnetop]The season ticket sales right after the draft say otherwise. To discount Bush's impact on the rejuvenated interest in Saints' football in NO is naive. People can hate on him as much as they want or believe he has a big ego or think he won't produce on the field. But he's already brought a whole lot to the table even before he's stepped on the field. Joe Horn isn't on the cover of this season's NCAA video game. Drew Brees isn't selling ESPN cell phones on TV. Deuce McAllister didn't get Subway to design an entire sandwich marketing campaign around him. You don't think the Saints organization benefits from this type of hype? Tell me, did the Cleveland Cavaliers benefit a few days after Lebron James was drafted?[/QUOTE]

Exactly! I was in the city right after the draft. That place was going nuts. There's a reason season tickets sold out after the draft and not before it. Because, let's be honest, if Mario Williams were the pick...they'd still be selling season tickets. I can guarantee you that much. A lot of you seem to think that the fans would blame Reggie Bush, I disagree. Everyone there hates Tom Benson and the organization. They'll side with Reggie, at least early.

Now, I want to know how Reggie Bush is out of line asking for "#1 pick money" when Vince Young is getting about $1 million less guaranteed than Williams and up to $4 million MORE overall. Now, how selfish is Reggie?

And from a personal standpoint, it's hard for me to hate on anyone who contributes to the Katrina relief efforts. I've been there. I've seen it. That city needs all the help they can get. And at a time when everyone has basically forgotten them, I salute him and any athlete who donates time or money to New Orleans.

But I'm sure that doesn't mean anything to most of you because the media is pushing him as the next big thing and it's turned you off to him so whatever.

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it's stupid because he is already a got millions from promotions. if he really cared about neworleans (as he says)he would sign a deal that was respectable and move on already. he only cares about himself

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[QUOTE=superskins]it's stupid because he is already a got millions from promotions. if he really cared about neworleans (as he says)he would sign a deal that was respectable and move on already. he only cares about himself[/QUOTE]

yes, because professional athletes should never try to negotiate their worth to the franchise and always short change themselves for the good of the team... /sarcasm. who the hell else should he care about if he's putting his body on the line?

[URL="http://www.jointheteam.com/features/?f=325&t=29"]Doesn't care about New Orleans huh???[/URL]

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[quote=itvnetop]yes, because professional athletes should never try to negotiate their worth to the franchise and always short change themselves for the good of the team... /sarcasm. who the hell else should he care about if he's putting his body on the line?

[URL="http://www.jointheteam.com/features/?f=325&t=29"]Doesn't care about New Orleans huh???[/URL][/quote]
but he's not worth more than the number one pick...he was the #2 pick, so he should be paid like it

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[QUOTE=steveo395]but he's not worth more than the number one pick...he was the #2 pick, so he should be paid like it[/QUOTE]

Vince Young was the number 3 pick and he's being paid more than the #1 pick. The difference in guaranteed money is 1 or 2 million between Williams and Young. So, it seems that Reggie will have to be paid close to that according to the way rookie contracts are negotiated.

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[QUOTE=steveo395]but he's not worth more than the number one pick...he was the #2 pick, so he should be paid like it[/QUOTE]

Mario Williams (first pick): 6 year/54/26.5 g
Vince Young (third pick): 6 year (option 6th)/58/25.7 g

Granted, both of these guys probably won't see these full base salaries before extensions hit (and williams gets a little more guaranteed), but the fact is VY's numbers are higher than MW's.

Justify this...

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[quote=itvnetop]Mario Williams (first pick): 6 year/54/26.5 g
Vince Young (third pick): 6 year (option 6th)/58/25.7 g

Granted, both of these guys probably won't see these full base salaries before extensions hit (and williams gets a little more gauranteed), but the fact is VY's numbers are higher than MW's.

Justify this...[/quote]
mario williams still got more guaranteed money and the only way vince young can make more than him is if he meets certain escalators and plays out the whole deal (most likely won't happen)

reggie bush should get guaranteed money at about 26 million with the base salary somewhere around where these two players are. He shouldn't get more guaranteed money than williams, which is what he wants

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[QUOTE=steveo395]
reggie bush should get guaranteed money at about 26 million with the base salary somewhere around where these two players are. He shouldn't get more guaranteed money than williams, which is what he wants[/QUOTE]

so if the rumour is true that bush wants a dollar more guaranteed than williams, it's a matter of principle with him. the only reason why he and his agent would want a dollar more than williams has to do with his belief that he should have been the number one pick and houston signed williams because of signability issues with RB. That may or may not be the truth, but it's what the Bush camp is basing their argument on.

if you split the guaranteed money down the middle (b/t young and williams), we're talking about a 500K difference of opinion b/t RB and the organization. Considering what Bush has already brought to the table, it's probably not worth the Saints trying to prove a point. RB isn't the typical no. 2 overall pick, despite what you want to believe.

Regardless, I do think both camps will meet down the middle and it'll probably get taken care of by Monday. I just don't understand all the hate towards the player regarding his own damn business- it's his livelihood we're talking about... we're just fans.

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[quote]The last time a rookie asked to wear a number that didn't agree with the NFL number system, the rules got changed and Keyshawn got to wear #19.[/quote]

Edge petitioned to wear #5 and got turned down. Before Keyshawn wasn't the league already thinking of opening up WR numbers because most teams carry a lot of WRs and numbers were a bit thin?

[quote]I mean, really. I don't know what everyone has against Reggie Bush. God forbid someone make a request of the league when they get drafted. God forbid a player's contract negotiations not go well with what is very possibly the worst organization in football. How about we talk about the positive shit he's done? He's jumped into the Katrina relief effort. He took a 1 page ad in the Times-Picayune after he went to dinner one night in New Orleans and got cheered. So, contract negotiations aren't going well, blame the player?[/quote]
Yes, let's cry about Reggie Bush. Poor him. So what if he was illegally getting housing for his family and other perks against NCAA rules. You know what, if he wanted #1 pick money, he should have taken the contract Mario Williams now has. Because from everything I've heard, they tossed that deal to both, Mario accepted, Reggie declined. That said. QBs and DEs are two of the highest paid positions in football. They aren't a dime a dozen like running backs.

Good for Reggie for donating money to Katrina and the city of New Orleans to help it recover, but let's not act as if he did it totally selflessly. Remember when he was giving X amount of jersey sales to Katrina, as long as the NFL let him wear #5. That's not the least bit manipulative. An attempt to force the NFL to let him have 5 or to try to make them look bad. Luckily, he's giving that percentage anyways, but still. Lets not act like he didn't have some alternate motives.

[quote]Oh, and btw, coming off of a torn ACL, McAllister won't be of much use to them. He'll still be able to carry the load, maybe, but the yards aren't going to be impressive. So, Reggie will probably have to be the main option for them. Like it or not.[/quote]
Listening to Sirius, the beat writer for New Orleans said the McAllister was definitely the #1 and was progressing great. Looked and (somehow) felt better than he has in a long time. Let's also not forget they have Michael Bennett who isn't a bad back and is Bush-esque in his scat back, small frame type of guy.

As they say in the NFL. You play for that 2nd contract. That's where you get your money. Once you're proven you can work on getting a big deal. Until then, he's just the next Ryan Leaf in my eyes.

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im not sure what all the fuss is? i really could give a rats ass about what # reggie bush wants to wear. as far as the money, just another greedy, pampered athlete trying to make as much money as possible so his kids kids never have to work a day in their lives. i think its great that bush donated 50,000 to new orleans but, in the big scheme of things, fifty grand to him is peanuts. probably done more for the good publicity than anything else

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If he hasn't signed a contract, where did he get that $50,000?

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[quote=TheMalcolmConnection]If he hasn't signed a contract, where did he get that $50,000?[/quote]endorsements. i think he signed a deal with adidas.

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Ah, indeed. However, I'm not just going to hate on Bush, I'm going to hate on Reggie and Leinhart and Lendale White because they're all products of being around each other. Put Reggie on the Broncos or Patriots and he would go apeshit. Mario Williams can make an impact wherever he goes.

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tmc, we are in total agreement about all 3 of those guys. everyone will see that none of these guys will live up to the hype coming out of college, and i think white will be the first one out of the league(i give him 3 seasons before everyone realizes he is a bust).bush may have a productive career but nothing worthy of his draft status.leinhart has a weak arm imo and he will have a worse rookie campaign than smith in sf.

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I agree about Bush having a productive career and I really feel like he'll have an Eddie George-like career, which isn't all bad. He'll do well each year, but he won't be Football Jesus like people are making him out to be.

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i thought taylor jacobs was already annointed football jesus

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Yes Bush may be greedy or maybe not. But there a couple of things that seemed to get overlooked in the hating that is generally directed toward athletes attempting to go to the highest bidder.

First of all, at the end of the day they are employees and business people, and not necessarily in that order. Secondly, why is that the owners always get a free pass but athletes are the ones who are constantly singled out as being selfish and greedy? I truly think one begets another.

In my mind these athletes are simply taking their cue from a culture that, yes, the owners themselves have created and athletes have perpetuated. Larger stadiums sponsored by large corporate entities, television revenue, and much, much more. We can't just isolate a player here and there and say they're greedy or selfish for wanting more money and somehow absolve the ownership from this....they are just as much to blame as all the Reggie Bushes' of the world.

Hey, if Reggie Bush is going to fill up the Super Dome or wherever it is they end up...more power to him! "Don't muzzle the Ox that treads out the corn." After all that's part of the reason they hired him in the first place.

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[QUOTE=Daseal]Edge petitioned to wear #5 and got turned down. Before Keyshawn wasn't the league already thinking of opening up WR numbers because most teams carry a lot of WRs and numbers were a bit thin?


Yes, let's cry about Reggie Bush. Poor him. So what if he was illegally getting housing for his family and other perks against NCAA rules. You know what, if he wanted #1 pick money, he should have taken the contract Mario Williams now has. Because from everything I've heard, they tossed that deal to both, Mario accepted, Reggie declined. That said. QBs and DEs are two of the highest paid positions in football. They aren't a dime a dozen like running backs.

Good for Reggie for donating money to Katrina and the city of New Orleans to help it recover, but let's not act as if he did it totally selflessly. Remember when he was giving X amount of jersey sales to Katrina, as long as the NFL let him wear #5. That's not the least bit manipulative. An attempt to force the NFL to let him have 5 or to try to make them look bad. Luckily, he's giving that percentage anyways, but still. Lets not act like he didn't have some alternate motives.


Listening to Sirius, the beat writer for New Orleans said the McAllister was definitely the #1 and was progressing great. Looked and (somehow) felt better than he has in a long time. Let's also not forget they have Michael Bennett who isn't a bad back and is Bush-esque in his scat back, small frame type of guy.

As they say in the NFL. You play for that 2nd contract. That's where you get your money. Once you're proven you can work on getting a big deal. Until then, he's just the next Ryan Leaf in my eyes.[/QUOTE]

I still don't see why he has some huge ego because he asked to wear #5? He's still giving the money to Katrina Relief efforts and that's all that really matters.

As for breaking NCAA rules. I don't care. I really don't. It doesn't matter to me one bit. NCAA players get used as it is. It doesn't matter to me if they take advantage of their fame. Schools make millions off of kids who are provided a free education. 40k a year? Those kids are putting more money than that into the school's pockets, so I could really care less about any player taking money. I didn't care about Clarrett breaking rules. I don't care that Vick broke rules. It doesn't matter to me if a college player is taking money because most of them do and don't get caught.

I remember listening to Jeff Bostic talk about when he broke into the league and his first contract. He said, "that was a paycut coming from Clemson." I couldn't care less that a guy was taking advantage of his fame and getting shit for free. Will I feel bad for him if he gets his Hiesman taken away? No. Cause he knew he was breaking the rules and he got caught. But it doesn't matter to me.

As for McAllister...you've seen running backs come back from torn ACL's before. I don't care what he says. I'll be shocked if he goes for 1100 yards.

And as for Michael Bennet. He's sick with his 1 1000 yard season. And I know you're response will be, but Reggie hasn't played in the NFL. So what? That's what ROOKIE means.

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jdlea, dont take the hating personally. everyone is just getting sick of all the greedy, pampered athletes that can never play their sport strictly for the passion that they had growing up. i agree everyone needs to get paid but when a player like antonio pierce leaves for basically the same money, just more up front money and then bad mouths the skins, something is definitley wrong with that picture. reggie bush hasnt played a down in the nfl so why does he feel entitled to it? most of the time a great college career doesnt = a great nfl career. sign a short term deal and prove you are worth the money

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[quote=dmek25]jdlea, dont take the hating personally. everyone is just getting sick of all the greedy, pampered athletes that can never play their sport strictly for the passion that they had growing up. i agree everyone needs to get paid but when a player like antonio pierce leaves for basically the same money, just more up front money and then bad mouths the skins, something is definitley wrong with that picture. reggie bush hasnt played a down in the nfl so why does he feel entitled to it? most of the time a great college career doesnt = a great nfl career. sign a short term deal and prove you are worth the money[/quote]

But, D, there are no short term deals for RBs. The average career for RBs is somewhere between 3-5 yrs. And unlike other professional sports, if you get injured in the NFL, it's Hasta la Vista, baby!!

Why shouldn't Bush try to get as much as he can for his potential value....I bet the Bensons' are.

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[QUOTE=dmek25]jdlea, dont take the hating personally. everyone is just getting sick of all the greedy, pampered athletes that can never play their sport strictly for the passion that they had growing up. i agree everyone needs to get paid but when a player like antonio pierce leaves for basically the same money, just more up front money and then bad mouths the skins, something is definitley wrong with that picture. reggie bush hasnt played a down in the nfl so why does he feel entitled to it? most of the time a great college career doesnt = a great nfl career. sign a short term deal and prove you are worth the money[/QUOTE]

I'm trying not to, but having been in New Orleans, I saw him jump right into the Katrina Relief efforts. That really endeared him to me. I thought he was an awesome athlete before that. However, now I think he's a very good person.

That said, he's just trying to get paid what he's worth. While we may disagree what he's worth, the NFL Draft and other players' contracts dictate his worth. So, that being said, he's worth about exactly as much as Mario Williams since Vince Young is apparently worth more. Now, I know DE's and QB's are generally paid more than running backs, but Reggie Bush was the best player in the draft. Next to, maybe, Vince Young.

People need to get their money when they can. I don't care what we're looking at. Any profession, if you have the opportunity to get paid, you need to get that money cause you don't know when the chance will come up again. Everyone should get what they're worth and when you compare Reggie Bush to the guys drafted around him, that's what he's asking for.

It's him that has the Superdome sold out. Period. Tom Benson is going to get even richer off of him, why not just give him what he wants? He sells tickets and he brings in money for the owner. Tom Benson won't lose money if he gives Reggie Bush Mario Williams money. It's not just the athletes that are coddled here, people. The owners get richer and richer by putting these guys on the field and the players see a small share of the profits. So, I don't feel sorry for any owner/GM who has to deal with a player wanting a lot of money.

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[quote=jdlea] People need to get their money when they can. I don't care what we're looking at. Any profession, if you have the opportunity to get paid, you need to get that money cause you don't know when the chance will come up again. Everyone should get what they're worth and when you compare Reggie Bush to the guys drafted around him, that's what he's asking for.

It's him that has the Superdome sold out. Period. Tom Benson is going to get even richer off of him, why not just give him what he wants? He sells tickets and he brings in money for the owner. Tom Benson won't lose money if he gives Reggie Bush Mario Williams money. It's not just the athletes that are coddled here, people. The owners get richer and richer by putting these guys on the field and the players see a small share of the profits. So, I don't feel sorry for any owner/GM who has to deal with a player wanting a lot of money.[/quote]

You summed up my thoughts, precisely. What I don't think we're looking at here, is that the door swings both ways. You can't call the athlete greedy, yet the owner is commended as a "business man". Like you said, if Benson will profit off Bush then Bush deserves a portion of that windfall comensurate to his overall impact.