santana moss
 

anyone on any insight of why Santana Moss is so good and the jets let him go. is it because he was injured? the coaching staff didn't evaluate his talent properly? our coaching staff knows how to use him? or brunell looks to him when in trouble? i just cant believe how good he is and how the jets would let him go for Laverneous freakin Coles

Re: santana moss
 

They thought Coles was #1 and didn't think Moss was gonna be worth what he would get in his big contract. I guess because he is small. The have to be kicking themselves now that the trend toward big lanky WR has died down a little and guys who can make plays, at any size, are en vogue.

Re: santana moss
 

I think the Jets felt like there was more chemistry between Coles and Pennington. Their numbers with the Jets really don't contrast, so I feel they just thought Coles was the better fit.

Moss is without a doubt the better of the two, but Coles isn't really a bust either.

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[quote=dmek25;223598]anyone on any insight of why Santana Moss is so good and the jets let him go. is it because he was injured? the coaching staff didn't evaluate his talent properly? our coaching staff knows how to use him? or brunell looks to him when in trouble? i just cant believe how good he is and how the jets would let him go for Laverneous freakin Coles[/quote]

cause a deep threat is worthless when the QB has a noodle arm. and herm edwards isn't a good coach an was using him to go over the middle instead of using space or sending him deep constantly.

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Also, Moss had a pretty long injury history prior to last season. At the time, most pundits thought the Jets had gotten the better deal, if I remember correctly.

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The Jets didn't know how to use him properly, bottom line.

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[quote=djnemo65;223605]Also, Moss had a pretty long injury history prior to last season. At the time, most pundits thought the Jets had gotten the better deal, if I remember correctly.[/quote]

I too think the injury factor was a big deal to them. Moss had hammy issues when he was there. Since he's been here he has been going to a massage therapist that keeps him rubbed up and down.

Re: santana moss
 

[quote=djnemo65;223605]Also, Moss had a pretty long injury history prior to last season. At the time, most pundits thought the Jets had gotten the better deal, if I remember correctly.[/quote]

Totally, at the time (and it continues) the "experts" proudly exalted the SKINS got hosed on that deal. I don't imagine they feel the same today. Just like the same guys that put us in the middle of the power field. No love for the skins

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we're 2-2 and only one win was against a quality opponent, where do you expect them to rank us? #1?

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[quote=FRPLG;223599]They thought Coles was #1 and didn't think Moss was gonna be worth what he would get in his big contract. I guess because he is small. The have to be kicking themselves now that the trend toward big lanky WR has died down a little and guys who can make plays, at any size, are en vogue.[/quote] Last time I checked Moss 5'10" and Coles 5"11" so I don't think size was an issue. I just think they never found out how to use Moss. They both are good WR's and it looks like Coles may have finally got over his toe issue but I still think Moss is much better at yards after the catch.

Re: santana moss
 

[QUOTE=firstdown;223627]Last time I checked Moss 5'10" and Coles 5"11" so I don't think size was an issue. I just think they never found out how to use Moss. They both are good WR's and it looks like Coles may have finally got over his toe issue but I still think Moss is much better at yards after the catch.[/QUOTE]
Size was absolutely an issue. In fact the same argument you make was made then. Moss for some reason is looked at as being small and Coles average size.

The main thing that was said by "experts" when it happend was "he is fast but isn't big enougn to be a #1."

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[quote=12thMan;223610]Since he's been here he has been going to a massage therapist that keeps him rubbed up and down.[/quote]

ahhh yes ... that sounds lovely.

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[QUOTE=firstdown;223627]Last time I checked Moss 5'10" and Coles 5"11" so I don't think size was an issue. I just think they never found out how to use Moss. They both are good WR's and it looks like Coles may have finally got over his toe issue but I still think Moss is much better at yards after the catch.[/QUOTE]
I was at the Jets preseason game. First row, Jets side. I saw that Coles still had a noticeable limp. Don't know if it is still the toe, or what, but he does have a limp when he walks.

Re: santana moss
 

[QUOTE=firstdown;223627]Last time I checked Moss 5'10" and Coles 5"11" so I don't think size was an issue. I just think they never found out how to use Moss. They both are good WR's and it looks like Coles may have finally got over his toe issue but I still think Moss is much better at yards after the catch.[/QUOTE]

I've never seen Coles up close and in person. But there's no way Moss is 5'10" He looked more to me like 5'8" (5'9" at the most)

Re: santana moss
 

[quote=FRPLG;223629]Size was absolutely an issue. In fact the same argument you make was made then. Moss for some reason is looked at as being small and Coles average size.

The main thing that was said by "experts" when it happend was "he is fast but isn't big enougn to be a #1."[/quote] Maybe an issue for the "experts" but I do not see how coaches draw that conclusion. Coles is listed at one inch taller and 3 pounds heavier. Are these the same experts that had us at 8/8 last year at best.

Re: santana moss
 

I'm sure they are. A lot of these experts just repeat what they here from coaches and scouts though. I don't think the Jets have been making good personell decisions for years now. Edwards and comp had no idea how to use Moss and because of this he had lesser production and that in turn allowed them to blame it on his size. Because, you know, it couldn't be their schemes or anything. The great Herm Edwards is such a good coach that KC traded picks for him. Talk about stupid.

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[QUOTE=TAFKAS;223642]I've never seen Coles up close and in person. But there's no way Moss is 5'10" He looked more to me like 5'8" (5'9" at the most)[/QUOTE]
He was at CP's birthday party that I went to and yes he is not more than 5'8". But I would suspect Coles isn't either.

Re: santana moss
 

I think the salary issues were important as well. The jets didn't want to sgn Moss to big money (they had just broke the bank on Pennington, or were about to), and we ate a lot of Coles contract in the deal. That was a big reason people thought we got the worse deal--9 mil in dead cap, or somethin, wasn't it? Anywho, the deal sure looks good now, and Gibbs really was motivated by charater and "core redskin" issues. Shows what he knows! :)

Re: santana moss
 

Wonder if Coles regrets not being more patient? As I remember the coaches loved him and his style but he was the one who wanted out and then it turned ugly. Wasn't like they were looking to get rid of him. Now 50-50 on the other hand. He was never long for this team I don't think.

Re: santana moss
 

Coles did want out, but I think there was some issues there between him and the team regarding his toe. The team wanted him to have the surgery and obviously he didn't want it. Things probably would have fallen apart at some point.

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[QUOTE=cpayne5;223638]I was at the Jets preseason game. First row, Jets side. I saw that Coles still had a noticeable limp. Don't know if it is still the toe, or what, but he does have a limp when he walks.[/QUOTE]
I thought I heard recently that he foot still has problems. I know he's also had a strained calf for a bit; don't know it it goes all the way back to that game, but maybe.

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[quote=That Guy;223623]we're 2-2 and only one win was against a quality opponent, where do you expect them to rank us? #1?[/quote]

How do you explain the Eagles rating?

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[quote=Hog1;223706]How do you explain the Eagles rating?[/quote]

i didn't know justifying their ranking was part of my job.



as for coles, ray brown said he was saying crap in the locker room, and he wasn't JUST traded because of the toe.

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[quote=TAFKAS;223642]I've never seen Coles up close and in person. But there's no way Moss is 5'10" He looked more to me like 5'8" (5'9" at the most)[/quote]

Yup, after the second Cowboys game, he was signing autographs and I'm 5'10" and I felt WAY bigger than him.

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Santana was talking up Gibbs, et al after the game on Sunday. I think he's so happy with the chance that the Skins have given him that he plays like he owes the entire organization everything he's got. I love that about him.

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I've never seen them together, but Coles does appear to be a little bigger than Santana. I remember all the talk being that the Skins got hosed, but in the end Dan Snyder got the better of the deal and didn't have to give Coles a flat screen either. Just 9 million bucks. But it appears to be win-win, and on top Coles is stuck with a qb who can't throw deep so he's got to run the short stuff he complained so much about here. Moss is the man!

Oh, and maybe Snyder was on the right track in '01 when he wanted to draft Moss and Rottenheimer drafted Rod "50/50" Gardner.

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[quote=That Guy;223756]i didn't know justifying their ranking was part of my job.

My mistake, I thought you had something to offer

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marty won games with the players he chose, so there's not a lot to really b*tch about there. moss is clearly the better player though, and would have been a better choice in hindsight ;).

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[quote=Hog1;223786][quote=That Guy;223756]i didn't know justifying their ranking was part of my job.

My mistake, I thought you had something to offer[/quote]

I responded to you're assertion that the redskin's are somehow being royally screwed by being listed as a middle of the pack team and asked you where you thought they should be, an then, magically, i'm responsible for where some espn analysts placess the eagles? come on.

they are 3-1, they've scored at will, and they're got good depth, a good QB, an a long track record of being a good team. how's that :P?

Re: santana moss
 

[quote=That Guy;223794][quote=Hog1;223786]

I responded to you're assertion that the redskin's are somehow being royally screwed by being listed as a middle of the pack team and asked you where you thought they should be, an then, magically, i'm responsible for where some espn analysts placess the eagles? come on.

they are 3-1, they've scored at will, and they're got good depth, a good QB, an a long track record of being a good team. how's that :P?[/quote]

Totally, at the time (and it continues) the "experts" proudly exalted the SKINS got hosed on that deal. I don't imagine they feel the same today. Just like the same guys that put us in the middle of the power field. No love for the skins

Review my post, there is no screwed by anyone.
If memory serves, you asked if I thought they should be number one.
No they don't. However, Look at the Eagles schedule, the only quality opponent they played, (Houston, Giants, Niners, and Green Bay), the Giants (who have many problems) they lost. Jacksonville is a signifigantly tougher than that. Our loss's have both been to better teams than NY. My assertion, is that this hardly justifies a 12ish place difference in the rankings. While I am accustomed to bad press from the media, I still don't like it.
FYI, I did not make you responsible for any analysts thought process.

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The only thing that's rubbing me the wrong way with all the attention that Santana is getting, is the sports world is acting like he just popped on the scene last week. He's basically picking up right where he left off last year.

And to think, ESPN, Eric Allen in particular was singing the praises of Steve Smith because he caught ten passes in his first game back - so what!!

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I hate all the steve smith hype ... he's on par with santana in terms of production, but he plays much weaker opponents--and he gets injured too often. :doh:

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[QUOTE=GhettoDogAllStars;223823]I hate all the steve smith hype ... he's on par with santana in terms of production, but he plays much weaker opponents--and he gets injured too often. :doh:[/QUOTE]

I think Steve Smith is way overhyped, but other than him making Jake Delhomme look good, that O didn't have much going for it last season. At least in Washington you have Clinton Portis to worry about.

And having lived in the Carolina media market last year I had to suffer through many of their games. I saw him take some big hits cause Jake hung him out to dry last year. I think Steve Smith is as good a receiver as there is in this league. Do I think he's overhyped? No. I just think Santana doesn't get enough facetime.

Re: santana moss
 

You can't say enough about Moss. Thank God somebody on the Skins had the wisdom to get him. With the huge plays he executes, he is changing the way other teams D will play us. This will have an increasingly positive affect on the other recievers. Cool

Re: santana moss
 

[url=http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=smith_michael&id=2612446]ESPN.com - NFL - Top 10 must-see performers[/url] You are just too good to be true...cant take my eyes off of you..(#4 on the list)

Re: santana moss
 

[quote=12thMan;223821]The only thing that's rubbing me the wrong way with all the attention that Santana is getting, is the sports world is acting like he just popped on the scene last week. He's basically picking up right where he left off last year.

And to think, ESPN, Eric Allen in particular was singing the praises of Steve Smith because he caught ten passes in his first game back - so what!![/quote]

Yeah, I agree. The media only has eyes for drama. Whenever Santana does something GREAT, then they take notice. But if it's day to day.... he's no big deal. By the end of this season, everyone will know who Santana is!!!

Re: santana moss
 

pretty good list, honestly. I expected a lot less for some reason.

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I was almost as surprised as when i saw Dr. Z's Rankings...but Moss deserves it!!!! He is the best take it to the house receiver. He has all the moves. I Understand M Vick is like what Number 5 in rushing as a QB....but does he deserve #1?? Or bush #2??

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[quote=DaveyFoSho;224329]I was almost as surprised as when i saw Dr. Z's Rankings...but Moss deserves it!!!! He is the best take it to the house receiver. He has all the moves. I Understand M Vick is like what Number 5 in rushing as a QB....but does he deserve #1?? Or bush #2??[/quote]

vick sold 25,000 season tickets by himself.
bush caused the first full sellout (ALL season tickets) the saints have EVER had.

people want to see them, so they deserve to be #1 and #2.

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[QUOTE=memphisskin;223778]Oh, and maybe Snyder was on the right track in '01 when he wanted to draft Moss and Rottenheimer drafted Rod "50/50" Gardner.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I've thought about that too -- what if we had drafted Santana Moss in '01? Would he still be here? I doubt it, knowing how much of a priority this front office has at keeping talent once they've found it.

Still, some players take awhile to blossom. Remember, Tiki Barber was so-so for the first 3 or 4 years in the league until he became an elite running back. I think the same happened with Santana Moss. I'm just glad we have him now that he seems to be peaking.