Theismann made a great point during MNF.
 

Anyone watch the Pats last night? Joe T. made a great point. He said the Pats offense doesn't care about balance. They care about production and points. Plus I don't think I saw one false start or any penalties on the Pats 0-line on the road with crowd noise. Unlike the Skins line they are so disiplined. Brady is pointing out blitzers and they execute. Plus who are the WR's? Gabriel, Caldwell, Jackson and T. Brown? Give me a break! I know the TE is a stud but please. Why is it that the Skins always say that they must run to win? You bring in two new WR's w/ S. Moss and Cooley and you want to be a running team? Has anyone told Gibbs for the most part it's a passing league now???? How about you attack the weakness of your opponent? Does the Skins offense ever do this? We saw it with Indy. They didn't even bother messing around with Bailey. They just killed the other corner. Does the Skins offense ever attack? It always seems they come out and try and ram it down everyone's throat. Sometimes it's just painful to watch. Not smart offense in today's NFL! Just my .02.

Re: Theismann made a great point during MNF.
 

[quote=skinsfan69;236668]Anyone watch the Pats last night? Joe T. made a great point. He said the Pats offense doesn't care about balance. They care about production and points. Plus I don't think I saw one false start or any penalties on the Pats 0-line on the road with crowd noise. Unlike the Skins line they are so disiplined. Brady is pointing out blitzers and they execute. Plus who are the WR's? Gabriel, Caldwell, Jackson and T. Brown? Give me a break! I know the TE is a stud but please. Why is it that the Skins always say that they must run to win? You bring in two new WR's w/ S. Moss and Cooley and you want to be a running team? Has anyone told Gibbs for the most part it's a passing league now???? How about you attack the weakness of your opponent? Does the Skins offense ever do this? We saw it with Indy. They didn't even bother messing around with Bailey. They just killed the other corner. Does the Skins offense ever attack? It always seems they come out and try and ram it down everyone's throat. Sometimes it's just painful to watch. Not smart offense in today's NFL! Just my .02.[/quote]I agree with your analysis of the modern-day NFL offense. For us, it's not so much playing to our opponent's weaknesses as it is to playing to our own strengths. If the passing game is struggling, we run it more. If the running game struggles we throw. We definately have the talent to do both. The Pats' offensive style is similar to ours in many ways. Brady is better than Brunell, but we will YAC you to death. In terms of efficiency, we have virtually the same production numbers this season. Because of this, I wouldn't put any blame on Gibbs' because we pretty much emulate the Pats offense anyway. Now if we could only emulate the defense.

Re: Theismann made a great point during MNF.
 

If the Skins running game struggles Brunell will throw a 5 yard pass when it's 3and 10. Yes Brady is MUCH better than Brunell but when do we ever see the Skins offense attack a defense? Come out with empty sets and pass the ball over 5 yards? Pass to set up the run? Never never never. This week against Dallas they will come out and run run run and you will see Dallas crowd the line of scrimmage. It's like the offense has no strategy or game plan. It's always run run run. Plus the offesne has no audibles. Shocking for an NFL offense to not have the ablility to change the play. I played high school football and our offense had audibles!

Re: Theismann made a great point during MNF.
 

The skins offense is painful to watch on sunday's. Nothing makes me more mad than to see mark brunell throw a 5 yard dink on 3 and 15. And how about taking a shot down field on a first down or second and short. I mean what was the point of bringing in antwaan randle el or brandon lloyd if we're not going to use them to their potential? I'm not expecting big things from the redskins this year and nobody else should either. But I do trust in the almighty joe gibbs to get it together between now and the start of the 2007 season.

Re: Theismann made a great point during MNF.
 

The prerequisite for not caring is a solid QB. I would let Brady toss the ball around all day but when you have Mark at the helm you have to care, less you don't care about your defense. It's really ironic that Parcells said the following in week 2 of the season:

[QUOTE]Referring to Al Saunders, Parcells says: “This other guy, I think, he’s a lot more indiscriminate. I think he’s not going to be as concerned about the effect on his defense.” In other words, the Redskins’ defense will pay the price — in time spent on the field, in fatigue — for Saunders’s disinterest in controlling the ball and the clock.[/QUOTE]

Re: Theismann made a great point during MNF.
 

I'd prefer we do it like last year at home. We pound the ball down their throats and MAKE them stop us. They knew it was coming and we threw in and pass here and there for good measure.

Re: Theismann made a great point during MNF.
 

I agree a little w/ the assessment BUT, we don't have Tom Brady or Peytonn Manning. When you have a great QB it can make the coaching that much easier and vice versa.

We need one of those.

Re: Theismann made a great point during MNF.
 

Yeah, when you have Clinton Portis as your running back and Mark Brunell as your quarterback, you can't afford to be a pass first offense. Brunell can't do that. And Portis is too good to be a complimentary player. The Pats are a good example because they have a couple very good runners, but their offense is still predicated on the pass. However, they have the best or second best quarterback in the NFL. The Skins have Mark Brunell...that's why it's not pass first. That and it's not the philosophy of anyone on the staff, really.

Re: Theismann made a great point during MNF.
 

everyone is forgetting last season and how we gave it to clinton, and said run, clinton, run. and we ran right into the playoffs. lets get on #26s back again and make a playoff push

Re: Theismann made a great point during MNF.
 

Again, I see other qbs and wonder "why not us?"

Teams also don't seem to care about our motion anymore, we start off in one set, move Moss or Randle-El out of the backfield and out into the flat and other teams are like "so?"

Instead of 700 pages of plays, how bout one play and 700 formations?

Re: Theismann made a great point during MNF.
 

Run first works if you are winning...............or if you have a good defense, we don't fall into either of those categories, so we are screwed. I like how saunders tried to come out throwing last week, it proved effective until brunell started screwing it up in the second half. Running the ball is only effective in sustaining drives in the second half, when defenses are tired, in the first half, it's usually just a compliment to the pass. These are all points intended for the MODERN nfl, not the 80s and 90s NFL.

Re: Theismann made a great point during MNF.
 

running the football = winning the time of possesion, which in turn = keeping the defense off the field. sounds like a winning formula to me

Re: Theismann made a great point during MNF.
 

that's good theoretically, but running the ball does not get you first downs consistently. We need a way to spread out the defense, then the running game would dominate.

Re: Theismann made a great point during MNF.
 

[quote=dmek25;236764]everyone is forgetting last season and how we gave it to clinton, and said run, clinton, run. and we ran right into the playoffs. lets get on #26s back again and make a playoff push[/quote]

I didn't forget. But the defense was kicking ass and not stinking out the place!

Re: Theismann made a great point during MNF.
 

[QUOTE=GTripp0012;236671]For us, it's not so much playing to our opponent's weaknesses as it is to playing to our own strengths. If the passing game is struggling, we run it more. If the running game struggles we throw. We definately have the talent to do both. The Pats' offensive style is similar to ours in many ways. Brady is better than Brunell, but we will YAC you to death. In terms of efficiency, we have virtually the same production numbers this season. Because of this, I wouldn't put any blame on Gibbs' because we pretty much emulate the Pats offense anyway. Now if we could only emulate the defense.[/QUOTE]

Brady uses the entire field, and his whole complement of receivers, backs and TEs. he had thrown to seven different guys in the first half. that alone makes our offense vastly different. whether in execution or philosophy.

Re: Theismann made a great point during MNF.
 

My point is that when you get against GOOD NFL DEFENSES you can't come in and run it down everyone's throat. It just does not work! It sure didn't work against Tampa in the playoffs did it? Or against Seattle! And the hell with motion. Motion is a bunch of bullshit. Do the Colts run motion???? No. Never. They never run any motion. It's always the same thing. Harrison on the right and Wayne on the left. Dungy said that they have been running the same plays for 7 FRICKIN YEARS! How about execution!!!! How about production???? I almost don't even want to turn on the TV Sunday after watching the Pats and the Colts over the weekend. Brunell is so old and tired. Plus Romo carved up Carolina in Carolina! What in the hell is Gibbs waiting for?

Re: Theismann made a great point during MNF.
 

You're kind of contradicting yourself there. If it's all about execution, then why CAN'T you run it down someone's throat?

Re: Theismann made a great point during MNF.
 

[quote=dmek25;236799]running the football = winning the time of possesion, which in turn = keeping the defense off the field. sounds like a winning formula to me[/quote]

DMEK you are right. Here is a clue we don't have fucking Tom Brady! So we can not run our offense like the Pats.

Re: Theismann made a great point during MNF.
 

[QUOTE=SkinsFan89;236689]The skins offense is painful to watch on sunday's. Nothing makes me more mad than to see mark brunell throw a 5 yard dink on 3 and 15. And how about taking a shot down field on a first down or second and short. I mean what was the point of bringing in antwaan randle el or brandon lloyd if we're not going to use them to their potential? I'm not expecting big things from the redskins this year and nobody else should either. But I do trust in the almighty joe gibbs to get it together between now and the start of the 2007 season.[/QUOTE]

Welcome 89!

You are right! What was the point if we are not using them to their potential?

Only one player can trigger that potential in his fellow players.

Re: Theismann made a great point during MNF.
 

[quote=dmek25;236799]running the football = winning the time of possesion, which in turn = keeping the defense off the field. sounds like a winning formula to me[/quote]


The Skins defense can not keep itself off the field. The only way this team is going to win is to out score the opponent.

Loose the ball control , Joe Gibbs offense and open this baby up or this team goes 2 and 14.

Re: Theismann made a great point during MNF.
 

You know what's interesting and I don't think has been pointed out here is how many quick, short passes the Pats throw. They're not launching it ever other play. It's a lot of screens and dump offs

Re: Theismann made a great point during MNF.
 

pats coaching > skins coaching

it starts there but additionally...

pats QB > skins QBs

Re: Theismann made a great point during MNF.
 

Skins have such trouble dealing with their own schemes that they don't have time to identify anyone else's. They are never prepared for the opponent. The halftime adjustments have been miserable as well. Maybe they have TOO MANY coaches in power.

Re: Theismann made a great point during MNF.
 

[quote=skinsfan69;236668]Anyone watch the Pats last night? Joe T. made a great point. He said the Pats offense doesn't care about balance. They care about production and points. Plus I don't think I saw one false start or any penalties on the Pats 0-line on the road with crowd noise. Unlike the Skins line they are so disiplined. Brady is pointing out blitzers and they execute. Plus who are the WR's? Gabriel, Caldwell, Jackson and T. Brown? Give me a break! I know the TE is a stud but please. Why is it that the Skins always say that they must run to win? You bring in two new WR's w/ S. Moss and Cooley and you want to be a running team? Has anyone told Gibbs for the most part it's a passing league now???? How about you attack the weakness of your opponent? Does the Skins offense ever do this? We saw it with Indy. They didn't even bother messing around with Bailey. They just killed the other corner. Does the Skins offense ever attack? It always seems they come out and try and ram it down everyone's throat. Sometimes it's just painful to watch. Not smart offense in today's NFL! Just my .02.[/quote]

Agreed. I have posted about this else where. Gibbs I was about mismatches and adjustment first, spreading it out came second.

Re: Theismann made a great point during MNF.
 

[quote=skinsfan69;236675]If the Skins running game struggles Brunell will throw a 5 yard pass when it's 3and 10. Yes Brady is MUCH better than Brunell but when do we ever see the Skins offense attack a defense? Come out with empty sets and pass the ball over 5 yards? Pass to set up the run? Never never never. This week against Dallas they will come out and run run run and you will see Dallas crowd the line of scrimmage. It's like the offense has no strategy or game plan. It's always run run run. Plus the offesne has no audibles. Shocking for an NFL offense to not have the ablility to change the play. I played high school football and our offense had audibles![/quote]


Huge point. We have no audibles at the line. Gibbs I didnt let just any QB do that but Brunell is experienced enough to do it.

We can fix our problems. Its in our reach. The question is will they do it.
I dont think they need to change Mark as much as they need to do these other things and most of it seems to me to be coming from the coaches.

Players at correct possition
Play called
Giving the QB to right to change the play.
Game planning.. You dont run on Indi to the corners, they are small and fast, you run it down the middle.

We have the talent. Lets see if the coaches can come up with the right decission and modivations.

Re: Theismann made a great point during MNF.
 

Here's the problem, we all have been watching Brunell for so long we forgot what it's like to have a real QB on the field, and so we continue to try and figure out what the problem is other than Brunell, why? Because we all know we are stuck with him, every offensive problem we have could be attributed to the QB, a QB can make a team one dimensional in a heartbeat. Brunell was never a genious a QB, and now at 36 years old we want him to learn a new offense with a different philosophy than he's ever had, and to learn a 700 page play book, Brunell is lucky if could memorize 30 plays. He has no ability how to scan a field pre snap and know where the week spot in the defense will be on that particular play. Take a good look at Lloyd our last game he was fuming has anyone heard why? I have a pretty good idea why, our WR's are running thier a**'s off and Brunell could care less he's just dumping the ball off without giving the a second or third option a look.

I am not saying that this offense will turn upside down if and when Campbell ever gets a chance because he is a highly unproven player, but something has to give and I think it's about to, Gibbs is close to having no choice but to make the switch, unfortunatly the season will be over by the time he does, he acts as if after Brunells play that benching him is giving up on the season, when in actuallity it's the complete opposite regardless of the results, proven loser, against unproven ????

Re: Theismann made a great point during MNF.
 

It didn't take minnesota long to send a message to Brad Johnson, Childress is already thinking about making a move at QB, Johnson has remotly been near as bad as Brunell.

Kind of ironic, the monday night game saw both backup QB's, I really had to laugh at that considering our sorry state of affairs with Brunell, Gibbs acts as if Campbell gets on that field the world will come to an end, I said it before and I will say it again it almost looks like to me Gibbs is scared that someone will step in and outplay his beloved Brunell and he will have no choice but to bench him.

Re: Theismann made a great point during MNF.
 

So you think that Gibbs couldn't care less about the organization he's invested so much time and effort into, that he doesn't want to help restore to the greatness it once had due in large part to Gibbs because he has some sort of man-crush on Brunell?

Re: Theismann made a great point during MNF.
 

[QUOTE=TAFKAS;237142]So you think that Gibbs couldn't care less about the organization he's invested so much time and effort into, that he doesn't want to help restore to the greatness it once had due in large part to Gibbs because he has some sort of man-crush on Brunell?[/QUOTE]

No, what I am saying is he wants to do it his way and that is with Brunell.

Lets face it he was the only one in the NFL who wanted the guy at least as a starter, and he was the only one who was going to give anything up to get him, let alone 43 mil and a 3rd round pick, so in the eye's of every personel man out there he looks like a baffone, thier all saying I told you so, and he's trying to prove them wrong, which comes down to his inability to admit he royally screwed up with the Brunell signing.

Take a good look at Brunell can anyone say with a straight face he was a good signing? Let alone a horid signing?

If Brunell was playing for the Boy's the last 3 years we would still be laughing at how dumb they are, but because it's us and a Gibbs move, that makes it all right.

The guy is a joke at QB, how many Skins games does Aikmen have to cover do we have to hear him breakdown the QB play and question the decision making of Brunell along with his inability of arm strength to hit a reciever downfield, yes Brunell can throw the ball deep but he has to winde up and put a lot of air under it he cannot snap off a throw and get the ball 40 yards downfield. But until Brunell is removed from the equation everyone will continue to believe that there is no way Gibbs could be wrong, or stubborn, or human.

Re: Theismann made a great point during MNF.
 

[QUOTE=offiss;237146]No, what I am saying is he wants to do it his way and that is with Brunell.

Lets face it he was the only one in the NFL who wanted the guy at least as a starter, and he was the only one who was going to give anything up to get him, let alone 43 mil and a 3rd round pick, so in the eye's of every personel man out there he looks like a baffone, thier all saying I told you so, and he's trying to prove them wrong, which comes down to his inability to admit he royally screwed up with the Brunell signing.

Take a good look at Brunell can anyone say with a straight face he was a good signing? Let alone a horid signing?
[/QUOTE]

Signing Mark Brunell isn't like signing a Brett Farve or a Joe Montana, but to assume it was a "horrid" signing is blowing things well out of proportion. Mark hasn't been a bad QB. He hasn't been the playmaker we have all wanted, but he has played smart football overall. You always want to have a good veteran QB playing on the field in front of your younger QBs. When Campbell finally makes his debut, he will be a much better QB because of it.

Re: Theismann made a great point during MNF.
 

i thought it was a good signing at the time, but then I saw Brunell play for us and I knew right away that he wasnt the guy...............couldnt believe it when gibbs brought him back after that 6-10 season. We've been through this all before when ramsey was his backup (and was better than brunell) any backup of brunell's is better than him.

Re: Theismann made a great point during MNF.
 

[QUOTE=The Zimmermans;237197]i thought it was a good signing at the time, but then I saw Brunell play for us and I knew right away that he wasnt the guy...............couldnt believe it when gibbs brought him back after that 6-10 season. We've been through this all before when ramsey was his backup (and was better than brunell) any backup of brunell's is better than him.[/QUOTE]

I have to say Zim I am liking you more and more all the time!:biggthump

Re: Theismann made a great point during MNF.
 

[QUOTE=skinsguy;237174]Signing Mark Brunell isn't like signing a Brett Farve or a Joe Montana, but to assume it was a "horrid" signing is blowing things well out of proportion. Mark hasn't been a bad QB. He hasn't been the playmaker we have all wanted, but he has played smart football overall. You always want to have a good veteran QB playing on the field in front of your younger QBs. When Campbell finally makes his debut, he will be a much better QB because of it.[/QUOTE]

Well all I can say is if the first pass he throws goes sailing out of bounds someone's gettin hurt!

Re: Theismann made a great point during MNF.
 

[QUOTE=The Zimmermans;237197]i thought it was a good signing at the time, but then I saw Brunell play for us and I knew right away that he wasnt the guy...............couldnt believe it when gibbs brought him back after that 6-10 season. We've been through this all before when ramsey was his backup (and was better than brunell) any backup of brunell's is better than him.[/QUOTE]

Ramsey can't even beat out Clemens for the backup QB job with the Jets. He shouldn't even be in any discussion anymore

Re: Theismann made a great point during MNF.
 

he's still better than brunell haha, or was at one point, but now his confidence is so shot. He had a better record than brunell with the skins at the time until he got benched after that injury.

Re: Theismann made a great point during MNF.
 

Ok sure. I don't want to get into another Ramsey debate. Moving on

Re: Theismann made a great point during MNF.
 

Another point, Brunell is soooooooo boring to watch, he doesnt ever make impressive plays. A guy that throws down field is more exciting, if we arent gonna win, i would at least like to have a couple things to cheer about each game, like a pass over 20 yeards, or an impressive QB scramble. It's the little things that make me happy on Sunday. We got nothing in the last couple weeks.

Re: Theismann made a great point during MNF.
 

[quote=illdefined;236826]Brady uses the entire field, and his whole complement of receivers, backs and TEs. he had thrown to seven different guys in the first half. that alone makes our offense vastly different. whether in execution or philosophy.[/quote]Brunell frequently hits 6 recievers in the first half too. I'm not sure what the criteria is for using the entire field (how you know he is other than observation), but I'm guessing Brady does it better because he is a top 3 QB in this league.

I don't think there is any debate between Brady and Brunell, but how does that make our offensive styles 'vastly different'?

Re: Theismann made a great point during MNF.
 

we do run similar offenses, but brady makes the offense so much more effective with his deceptiveness, audibles, defensive reads, pocket mobility, quick release, and precise accuracy, all things we are lacking in our qb. With the saunders offense it is very important to hit receivers in stride enabling them to have productive YAC. By the time the skins receivers get the ball, it is too late and the defender is on them.

Re: Theismann made a great point during MNF.
 

Malcom.... Execution means when teams line up 8 defenders around the line of scrimmage you don't continue to try and run the frickin ball! You call a frickin pass play over 5 yards and throw it! Troy Aikman made this point last week after Saunders called that played out screen pass with everyone lurking around the line. You have to call plays that back guys off of the line so you can run the ball. And I don't care if we have T. Brady or not. A frinkin NFL QB should be able to throw it 15-25 yards down the field! Watch the game very closely when the Skins are on offense this week. Watch how Dallas will crowd the line and dare the Skins to throw it.