Trading Down the 1st Rounder next year
 

With the salary cap situation the Redkisns are in and the amount of current draft picks we have for 2007 left - doesn't it make sense to trade the pick down for multiple picks? I would think this would be the best solution because it allows you to pick up more players (the draft is a difficult science and more picks allows the team to have additional shots at gettig NFL cailber talent) and by moving down is easier to sign these players and give some relief to the cap in the future.

Any chance the Reskins go this route?

Re: Trading Down the 1st Rounder next year
 

That what a smart front office would do try to have as many picks that you could have. But that something that litte Danny and the Gibbster never would ever do. The last time we traded down in the first round was the year that Ramsey got drafted.

Re: Trading Down the 1st Rounder next year
 

Trading down out of a really high first rounder to get multiple picks would require some degree of ingenuity from the front office. I wouldn't trust this crowd to do such a thing.

Casserly could do it. Wonder if Danny could throw him a few million, make him forget about the past?

Re: Trading Down the 1st Rounder next year
 

[QUOTE=Beemnseven;237602]Trading down out of a really high first rounder to get multiple picks would require some degree of ingenuity from the front office. I wouldn't trust this crowd to do such a thing.

Casserly could do it. Wonder if Danny could throw him a few million, make him forget about the past?[/QUOTE]

Caesserly is a hack. What has he ever done? He won a SB with a team he didn't build. Then set forth to ruin a franchise throughout the mid 90s. He was as responsible as anyone for the teams struggles until Gibbs finally came back.

Re: Trading Down the 1st Rounder next year
 

before trading down, you must first evaluate want and need. see whats available, and see what the skins need. i am one who doesn't think the skins lack talent. one or two quality players can make this team a contender, in my opinion

Re: Trading Down the 1st Rounder next year
 

Is the salary cap ever really an issue? as far as I can tell, we just extend contracts into perpetuity...so while we do max pay year, any money above and beyond (needed to sign talent) is simply pushed till a later date (which works until there is a regime change). As for the picks, i agree that it would be smart, but i'm highly skeptical, a more likely outcome would be to trade up in exchange for our 2-4 round draft picks in 2008. What picks do we have in the upcoming draft anyway (that is, which picks have we not traded away?)

Re: Trading Down the 1st Rounder next year
 

I wish we could somehow manage a lower 1st round pick and a late 2nd round.

Re: Trading Down the 1st Rounder next year
 

All of this depends upon how high our first rounder is and who's available in the draft. It's a little premature to think about it.

Re: Trading Down the 1st Rounder next year
 

[QUOTE=FRPLG;237605]Caesserly is a hack. What has he ever done? He won a SB with a team he didn't build. Then set forth to ruin a franchise throughout the mid 90s. He was as responsible as anyone for the teams struggles until Gibbs finally came back.[/QUOTE]

Casserly accumulated the talent that Gibbs coached to victory. By his own admission Snyder said he fired the wrong guy when he fired Casserly and kept Norv. Gibbs is a great coach but taleent evaluation is not his forte. This team needs a real full time GM. I dont know that Casserly is the guy but the skins need someone to be the GM.

Re: Trading Down the 1st Rounder next year
 

[quote=Schneed10;237615]All of this depends upon how high our first rounder is and who's available in the draft. It's a little premature to think about it.[/quote]

Glad I read this before I finished my three paragraph comment based on the same observation.

Re: Trading Down the 1st Rounder next year
 

[quote=Schneed10;237615]All of this depends upon how high our first rounder is and who's available in the draft. It's a little premature to think about it.[/quote]
If it's high enough to get a pass rushing DE like Quentin Moses (Georgia) or Gaines Adams (Clemson), then keep the pick. Otherwise, trading to the bottom of the first round to add an additional pick in the 2nd round wouldn't be a bad idea. Mkristo Bruce (Washington State) is an intriguing pass rush prospect who will probably be available in round 2.

Re: Trading Down the 1st Rounder next year
 

We really don't have much ability to evaluate talent so as far as the draft goes, 1 possible 1st round bust or several late round busts, does it really matter with this group?

Re: Trading Down the 1st Rounder next year
 

[quote=irish;237618]Casserly accumulated the talent that Gibbs coached to victory. By his own admission Snyder said he fired the wrong guy when he fired Casserly and kept Norv. Gibbs is a great coach but taleent evaluation is not his forte. This team needs a real full time GM. I dont know that Casserly is the guy but the skins need someone to be the GM.[/quote]


Im not trying to be rude or anything, but your premise that Casserly was a good GM is just plain wrong. Bobby Beathard built Gibbs super bowl teams, not Charlie Casserly. Casserly was a HORRIBLE GM. He absolutely cannot evaluate talent. Just look what he did to the Texans for goodness sake. I would rather keep the current system, and I hate the system as it is, than go back to Casserly.

Re: Trading Down the 1st Rounder next year
 

[quote=SouperMeister;237664]If it's high enough to get a pass rushing DE like Quentin Moses (Georgia) or Gaines Adams (Clemson), then keep the pick. Otherwise, trading to the bottom of the first round to add an additional pick in the 2nd round wouldn't be a bad idea. Mkristo Bruce (Washington State) is an intriguing pass rush prospect who will probably be available in round 2.[/quote]

SouperMeiter - I follow the SEC (went to South Carolina - I know the old ballcoach slanders are going to roll in!)) and the DE's Moses and Johnson of Georgia are both pretty good.

One other question with the 1st rounder - in the TJ Duckett Trade I know we gave a 3rd rounder but I saw a report that in addition we may have to swap 1st round picks with Denver next year as well if the Redskins have a worse record than them and the difference between the Redskins 1st round pick and Denver's is greater than the value of a 3rd round pick. If this is the case the Redkisn switch 1st rounders with them, otherwise the Broncos also get our 4th rounder next year. Is this true? If so than we need to put call blocking on the Redskins phone line with the Broncos front office ASAP.

Re: Trading Down the 1st Rounder next year
 

[quote=Bill B;237598]With the salary cap situation the Redkisns are in and the amount of current draft picks we have for 2007 left - doesn't it make sense to trade the pick down for multiple picks? I would think this would be the best solution because it allows you to pick up more players (the draft is a difficult science and more picks allows the team to have additional shots at gettig NFL cailber talent) and by moving down is easier to sign these players and give some relief to the cap in the future.

Any chance the Reskins go this route?[/quote]

I don't see it happening that way....

Re: Trading Down the 1st Rounder next year
 

[quote=Bill B;237673]SouperMeiter - I follow the SEC (went to South Carolina - I know the old ballcoach slanders are going to roll in!)) and the DE's Moses and Johnson of Georgia are both pretty good.

One other question with the 1st rounder - in the TJ Duckett Trade I know we gave a 3rd rounder but I saw a report that in addition we may have to swap 1st round picks with Denver next year as well if the Redskins have a worse record than them and the difference between the Redskins 1st round pick and Denver's is greater than the value of a 3rd round pick. If this is the case the Redkisn switch 1st rounders with them, otherwise the Broncos also get our 4th rounder next year. Is this true? If so than we need to put call blocking on the Redskins phone line with the Broncos front office ASAP.[/quote]
The way I understand it, the value difference of our 1st round picks only equates to the value of a 3rd if the 1st rounders are 8 or 10 apart. Denver's pick will likely be late in the first round. So unless we finish with 10 wins, I don't see that swap of 1st rounders getting invoked. That said, giving up next year's 3rd round pick for a guy who never sees the light of day (and will walk after the year as a free agent) may be one of the worst trades we've ever made. The NFL is littered with starters drafted in the 3rd round or later. Don't get me started on Gibbs's unwillingness to build a team with our own draft picks!!![IMG]http://www.thewarpath.net/images/icons/icon8.gif[/IMG]

Re: Trading Down the 1st Rounder next year
 

[quote=SouperMeister;237693]The way I understand it, the value difference of our 1st round picks only equates to the value of a 3rd if the 1st rounders are 8 or 10 apart. Denver's pick will likely be late in the first round. So unless we finish with 10 wins, I don't see that swap of 1st rounders getting invoked. That said, giving up next year's 3rd round pick for a guy who never sees the light of day (and will walk after the year as a free agent) may be one of the worst trades we've ever made. The NFL is littered with starters drafted in the 3rd round or later. Don't get me started on Gibbs's unwillingness to build a team with our own draft picks!!![IMG]http://www.thewarpath.net/images/icons/icon8.gif[/IMG][/quote]

[COLOR=black][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]Gibbs believes veterans win Superbowls. He's old and wants to win now, not 5yrs from now.[/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR]

Re: Trading Down the 1st Rounder next year
 

[QUOTE=hesscl34;237699][COLOR=black][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]Gibbs believes veterans win Superbowls. He's old and wants to win now, not 5yrs from now.[/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR][/QUOTE]
Good to see we're doing so much winning now.

Re: Trading Down the 1st Rounder next year
 

We need as many picks as possible, we need to rebuild our defense. All the strengths of our defense are OLD MEN, washington, Daniels, Springs. The only promising young player is sean taylor. Trading down is the answer.

Re: Trading Down the 1st Rounder next year
 

[quote=ArtMonkDrillz;237703]Good to see we're doing so much winning now.[/quote]

That we be the part about all of this that sucks. I really do think Gibbs has done a good job building a great team, we just haven't gotten the job done.

Re: Trading Down the 1st Rounder next year
 

Coach Gibbs has built the team, they just haven't performed as expected.

It may even be too soon yet, I know I'm very impatient.

Now I have a lovely new Avatar I'm a much better, more patient person*.

Thanks Matty!








* Possibly a complete lie.

Re: Trading Down the 1st Rounder next year
 

[quote=The Zimmermans;237734]We need as many picks as possible, we need to rebuild our defense. All the strengths of our defense are OLD MEN, washington, Daniels, Springs. The only promising young player is sean taylor. Trading down is the answer.[/quote]
Don't give up on Rogers so quickly. He's very physical against the run for a CB, and if we add a real pass rush, he may become solid cover corner in time.

Re: Trading Down the 1st Rounder next year
 

[quote=SouperMeister;237744]Don't give up on Rogers so quickly. He's very physical against the run for a CB, and if we add a real pass rush, he may become solid cover corner in time.[/quote]
[COLOR=black] [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]Rogers[/COLOR][COLOR=black] sucks. Just my opinion. I've never seen a guy MOVE AWAY from a ball like he does. He sits and waits for the receiver to make his move, or he interferes. [/COLOR]

Re: Trading Down the 1st Rounder next year
 

Rogers is an unpolished diamond.

He'll be a dominant CB, just give him time.

Re: Trading Down the 1st Rounder next year
 

I've noticed how slow our defense seems this year, anyone else think we need some more speed, especially in the secondary?????

Re: Trading Down the 1st Rounder next year
 

[QUOTE=paulskinsfan;237671]Im not trying to be rude or anything, but your premise that Casserly was a good GM is just plain wrong. Bobby Beathard built Gibbs super bowl teams, not Charlie Casserly. Casserly was a HORRIBLE GM. He absolutely cannot evaluate talent. Just look what he did to the Texans for goodness sake. I would rather keep the current system, and I hate the system as it is, than go back to Casserly.[/QUOTE]

You are correct, I got Casserly and BB mixed up. Insert BB into my post wherever I typed Casserly.

Re: Trading Down the 1st Rounder next year
 

[quote=The Zimmermans;237773]I've noticed how slow our defense seems this year, anyone else think we need some more speed, especially in the secondary?????[/quote]

You think??????

Re: Trading Down the 1st Rounder next year
 

i was watching some of the games from last year, and the biggest difference is that the defense just isn't getting to the ball carrier. last year, there were a bunch of guys tackling the ball. this year its usually only one or two guys. to me, thats just a lack of hustle, and determination

Re: Trading Down the 1st Rounder next year
 

Ok, not many people are talking about the lack of speed. That speed can be found in the draft. Veterans only get slower......Archuleta.

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Speed is overrated. Position is what matters. Our guys in the secondary aren't suffering from a lack of speed, they're simply out of position too much.

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Yeah, they seem to always be recovering from their mistakes. Are they lacking the anticipation??? Do you think that troy vincent should get the nod over archuleta this sunday, I feel like he might compliment taylor more than Arch.

Re: Trading Down the 1st Rounder next year
 

See, forget speed. I'm all about drafting TALENT.

Re: Trading Down the 1st Rounder next year
 

[quote=The Zimmermans;237806]Yeah, they seem to always be recovering from their mistakes. Are they lacking the anticipation??? Do you think that troy vincent should get the nod over archuleta this sunday, I feel like he might compliment taylor more than Arch.[/quote]

I wouldn't be surprised to see quite a bit of Vincent down the stretch, at least in passing situations.

Re: Trading Down the 1st Rounder next year
 

[quote=Mattyk72;237798]Speed is overrated. Position is what matters. Our guys in the secondary aren't suffering from a lack of speed, they're simply out of position too much.[/quote]I think we can win with the corners we have. They do lack speed, but they are bigger and more physical than the NFL average and will come up and pop you in the run game.

We need to get back to the blitzing style that won us games. Blitz, man. If they beat it, blitz again.

Re: Trading Down the 1st Rounder next year
 

[quote=FRPLG;237605]Caesserly is a hack. What has he ever done? He won a SB with a team he didn't build. Then set forth to ruin a franchise throughout the mid 90s. He was as responsible as anyone for the teams struggles until Gibbs finally came back.[/quote]

Trading down would be a great idea becasue of so many needs. But the current braintrust isn't smart enough to do that. Bringing Charlie back would be a good idea. He knows more about today's NFL/ College than anyone they currently have. And you can put Norv in the blame game for the 90's. Norv wanted Shuler/Westbrook. He thought they were going to be Aikman and Irvin. But I would try and get someone from Balt. Chicago or New England front office. Someone with disipline and fiscal responsiblity that knows how to draft. I believe Bobby DePaul works in Chicago's front office and he is mostly responsible for building the current Bears team. He once worked for the Skins many year ago.

Re: Trading Down the 1st Rounder next year
 

Actually between Casserly and Norv. One wanted Dilfer/Westbrook the other wanted Shuler/Galloway so they basically compromised. But that's in the past

Re: Trading Down the 1st Rounder next year
 

If they had salary cap problems (which they don't) wouldn't it make sense to sign 1 first rounder instead of a 1st and 2nd?

Anyway, I think they need to focus on the O-line and defensive lines period.

Look at the g-men last year. They had a bunch of clowns playing LB (after Pierce was hurt) but they still won the division (didn't help against the Panthers...). Look at the Panthers. Their linebackers are comical and the secondary is mediocre at best but the line keeps them competitive.

Since we are stuck with Carter for a few years, is there any way we could use him as a linebacker? He obviously cannot play the line in our scheme. Why compound a mistake by continuing to play him there.

Re: Trading Down the 1st Rounder next year
 

[QUOTE=Grim21Reaper;237982]If they had salary cap problems (which they don't) wouldn't it make sense to sign 1 first rounder instead of a 1st and 2nd?

Anyway, I think they need to focus on the O-line and defensive lines period.

Look at the g-men last year. They had a bunch of clowns playing LB (after Pierce was hurt) but they still won the division (didn't help against the Panthers...). Look at the Panthers. Their linebackers are comical and the secondary is mediocre at best but the line keeps them competitive.

Since we are stuck with Carter for a few years, is there any way we could use him as a linebacker? He obviously cannot play the line in our scheme. Why compound a mistake by continuing to play him there.[/QUOTE]

I understand what you're saying about the salaries of a 1st and 2nd rounders. However, I think it's a little unrealistic to think we could trade down for a lower first AND a second round pick (unless we have a top 3-5 pick). I think a lower first and a third is more likely. In that case, the salaries of a low first and a third will be comparable to the salary of a high first.

I agree that lines should be the main focus. IMO, O-line, D-line, and RB are the most important pieces of a great team (a smart QB is necessary, a good QB is a luxury). I also think they should try to play carter at LB ... he isn't doing squat at DE, but we should probably wait a few more games before passing judgement (after all, it is his first year here).

Re: Trading Down the 1st Rounder next year
 

[quote=skinsfan69;237952]Trading down would be a great idea becasue of so many needs. But the current braintrust isn't smart enough to do that. Bringing Charlie back would be a good idea. He knows more about today's NFL/ College than anyone they currently have. And you can put Norv in the blame game for the 90's. Norv wanted Shuler/Westbrook. He thought they were going to be Aikman and Irvin. But I would try and get someone from Balt. Chicago or New England front office. Someone with disipline and fiscal responsiblity that knows how to draft. I believe Bobby DePaul works in Chicago's front office and he is mostly responsible for building the current Bears team. He once worked for the Skins many year ago.[/quote]

I agree with your assessment of Bobby DePaul, what about Ron Wolf? THe Green Bay Packers once GM- He brought in Holgren, Favre, etc...

Re: Trading Down the 1st Rounder next year
 

we need to see where our pick will be next year before we can discuss this