Heartbreaking...this is killing me!!
 

Hey guys! This is my first post, but I have lurked here for a couple of years. I'm not sure why it took me so long to register or post. Maybe it was knowing that once I got started posting in this forum...I'd spend way too much time here. I can't help my self now. I've been a Skins fan since '81. A Skins vs. Cowboys game that year, was the first game I ever watched. I never looked back. The Redskins have been my obsession...win or lose ever since. I have and will continue to be loyal to my team. HOWEVER, I'm starting to lose my mind here. I truly thought after Gibbs came back and a winning season last year, that I would have something to really cheer about! Now it looks like we are on the brink of rebuilding with a coach (who I love) who does not embrace change. Are we back at square one again? I'm not sure I can take it again....way too much dissapointment for years. I think last years tease makes it even worse.Where do we go from here?

Re: Heartbreaking...this is killing me!!
 

I guess we have to start looking at last year as the same kind of blip as 1999. We made the playoffs in those two years. Outside of those two seasons, we've been pretty bad since Gibbs left - 6-10, 5-11, 8-8, 6-10, etc. Looks like we're headed for another 6-10 or 5-11 season this year.

After Joe leaves (and may he stay as long as he desires), we need to start from scratch.

Re: Heartbreaking...this is killing me!!
 

Accept it and move on. The rest of the season will be alot more bearable if you just accept the fact that we stink and have stunk all season.

Re: Heartbreaking...this is killing me!!
 

Look at it this way. If there weren't so many great memories there'd be nothing to be upset about now. Think of what made you a fan and have some faith that good times lie ahead. Maybe not this year, but this franchise will be successful once again.

Re: Heartbreaking...this is killing me!!
 

Yeah, I think a lot of us thought that we really weren't that bad with all the injuries. I think a lot of us thought that the Jacksonville win would give us momentum. I think a lot of us thought the Dallas win would give us momentum. It just turns out, we're only a fluke.

Our defense is a shell of what it once was. Even with all the same players back, we're not attacking the ball like we used to. Even though Arizona got sounded spanked last night, at least they swarmed to the ball. Obviously, the first and most important change to make is as QB right now.

Sure, it can't all be put on him, and I've discussed it at ad nausem with the usual Monday Morning AIM Crew and we've come to the conclusion that it isn't Saunder's playcalling, it's Saunders adjusting to what Brunell can do. Simply put, Brunell cannot or does not WANT to throw the deep ball. I put part of this on Gibbs. It's like he makes QBs TERRIFIED to throw a ball into a tight spot.

I think with a move here or there in the offseason, the defense will be back to itself. I think we sign Nate Clements, move Springs to nickel and our secondary will be money. We just need to make sure we draft the RIGHT DE.

Re: Heartbreaking...this is killing me!!
 

I appreciate the comments. Acceptance? Been there. Done that. I do agree that it would not be so disappointing if there wasn't so many great memories. However, how long should fans just accept and move on? Doesn't the organization owe more to their fans? I was sick yesterday. From the players to the coaching staff, it appeared they lacked emotion at all. I guess they were practicing acceptance while they collected their checks for just being their. One interesting thing though. The fans did not look like they were accepting...just disgusted.

Re: Heartbreaking...this is killing me!!
 

[quote=TheMalcolmConnection;244501]Yeah, I think a lot of us thought that we really weren't that bad with all the injuries. I think a lot of us thought that the Jacksonville win would give us momentum. I think a lot of us thought the Dallas win would give us momentum. It just turns out, we're only a fluke.

Our defense is a shell of what it once was. Even with all the same players back, we're not attacking the ball like we used to. Even though Arizona got sounded spanked last night, at least they swarmed to the ball. Obviously, the first and most important change to make is as QB right now.

Sure, it can't all be put on him, and I've discussed it at ad nausem with the usual Monday Morning AIM Crew and we've come to the conclusion that it isn't Saunder's playcalling, it's Saunders adjusting to what Brunell can do. Simply put, Brunell cannot or does not WANT to throw the deep ball. I put part of this on Gibbs. It's like he makes QBs TERRIFIED to throw a ball into a tight spot.

I think with a move here or there in the offseason, the defense will be back to itself. I think we sign Nate Clements, move Springs to nickel and our secondary will be money. We just need to make sure we draft the RIGHT DE.[/quote]

Just as you say, a player here and there, and a few adjustments beginning with JC and we'll be ok. NO major rebuilding necessary. The future is now

Re: Heartbreaking...this is killing me!!
 

[QUOTE=70chip13083;244530]I appreciate the comments. Acceptance? Been there. Done that. I do agree that it would not be so disappointing if there wasn't so many great memories. However, how long should fans just accept and move on? Doesn't the organization owe more to their fans? I was sick yesterday. From the players to the coaching staff, it appeared they lacked emotion at all. I guess they were practicing acceptance while they collected their checks for just being their. One interesting thing though. The fans did not look like they were accepting...just disgusted.[/QUOTE]

I guess I've never felt like I owe them anything nor do they owe me anything. My friends and family are the ones that truly make me happy and that I "owe" or "owe" me. I love the Redskins, and of course love to see them win, but-big picture-it'll be a sad day in my life when I need the Redskins or any sports team.

Re: Heartbreaking...this is killing me!!
 

Truly Inspirational Moderation! Thankyou for the moment

Re: Heartbreaking...this is killing me!!
 

Let's put this in context, Tafkas. I'm a father of 2 young girls. Obviously, football can never really be compared to family and friends. However, considering that most of have some kind of passion for the Skins and football in general, it does play a role in who we are. Also, since football is a business that is driven by the fans to produce revenue, they do in fact us us something.

Re: Heartbreaking...this is killing me!!
 

It's like suggesting to a Cop, "I pay your salary".

Re: Heartbreaking...this is killing me!!
 

The Redskins are a fun diversion from reality for me. I certainly don't lose any sleep over their losses that's for sure. When I was younger I took it more much more seriously but in the grand scheme of life it's not very important. Nobody forces us to be Redskins fans. It's completely voluntary, so if you think the Redskins owe you something, you owe yourself a serious reality check.

Re: Heartbreaking...this is killing me!!
 

[QUOTE=70chip13083;244553]Let's put this in context, Tafkas. I'm a father of 2 young girls. Obviously, football can never really be compared to family and friends. However, considering that most of have some kind of passion for the Skins and football in general, it does play a role in who we are. Also, since football is a business that is driven by the fans to produce revenue, they do in fact us us something.[/QUOTE]

I understand what you're saying. I mean I've been a season ticket holder to the Washington Bullets/Wizards for over 10 years and clearly I'm happier when they win than when they don't. I guess I just don't feel like I'm being cheated when they don't win the way some others do.

Re: Heartbreaking...this is killing me!!
 

[quote=Mattyk72;244559]The Redskins are a fun diversion from reality for me. I certainly don't lose any sleep over their losses that's for sure. When I was younger I took it more much more seriously but in the grand scheme of life it's not very important. Nobody forces us to be Redskins fans. It's completely voluntary, so if you think the Redskins owe you something, you owe yourself a serious reality check.[/quote]

I think some of that comes with age. I used to be more upset after a loss than I am now. It DOES affect me and I am not having a very good year on Monday mornings, but, I'm not calling suicide hotline either

Re: Heartbreaking...this is killing me!!
 

Good post. Let's face it we are just a average maybe even below average organization. We've had 2 decent years in the last 15. I was really mad for awhile yesterday, but to be honest I've come to expect performances like that. It's just frustrating as a fan to deal w/ this year in and year out for the most part. As an organization i just feel like we don't get it.

I really hate to do it but I'm turning my attention to the coaching staff. They get outcoached, yes outcoached, the majority of the time. I don't blame MB, i blame the coach that thinks MB can lead this team. I don't blame AA or AC, i blame the scouting, fo, coaches that brought them aboard. And no, i'm not saying that the coaches should be fired or anything. GW is proven. Al S is proven. JG is proven, although in a different era. Players make coaches look smart. Picking players make coaches look smart. Our organization, need to rethink its philosophy and make better decisions.

Brady make Belichek smarter. McNabb makes Reid a genius. Romo is making Parcells better. The list goes on.

Unfortunately, we don't know about JC yet. Let's face it he could be really not ready to play yet. From the players that i have heard from, they say that Collins would be preferred. We've got to do something though.

Re: Heartbreaking...this is killing me!!
 

I certainly agree that in the grand scheme of things football is not very important at all. It certainly became much clearer to me after my first daughter was born seven years ago. However, I do think that professional sports teams due owe their fans. If it wasn't for us, they would not have a job. I certainly treat my clients like I owe them for their business.

Re: Heartbreaking...this is killing me!!
 

[quote=70chip13083;244573]I certainly agree that in the grand scheme of things football is not very important at all. It certainly became much clearer to me after my first daughter was born seven years ago. However, I do think that professional sports teams due owe their fans. If it wasn't for us, they would not have a job. I certainly treat my clients like I owe them for their business.[/quote]

Stop being a fan then. After all, we are the ones that initiate the relationship between fan and team.

Re: Heartbreaking...this is killing me!!
 

Not me. The Redskins made sweet love to me one late December night. I'll never forget.

Re: Heartbreaking...this is killing me!!
 

I'm just venting frustration here. It's a healthy thing to do. I do not think that it is irrational to expect more from your team. I'm kind of suprised that people would disagree with having expectations for a team we support in so many ways. I am a Skins fan, and always will be. It's not so black and white being a fan.

Re: Heartbreaking...this is killing me!!
 

[quote=redsk1;244570]I really hate to do it but I'm turning my attention to the coaching staff. They get outcoached, yes outcoached, the majority of the time. I don't blame MB, i blame the coach that thinks MB can lead this team. I don't blame AA or AC, i blame the scouting, fo, coaches that brought them aboard. And no, i'm not saying that the coaches should be fired or anything. GW is proven. Al S is proven. JG is proven, although in a different era. Players make coaches look smart. Picking players make coaches look smart. Our organization, need to rethink its philosophy and make better decisions.
[/quote]
You're onto something here. Gibbs 1.0 teams OWNED the third quarter after making excellent halftime adjustments. Gibbs 2.0 gets less out of more talent, especially on the offensive side of the ball, than any team in recent memory. This runs deeper than coaching though, it's a dysfunctional organization starting with the front office structure. If you're going to be making the final call on all player personnel decisions as Gibbs does, batting .500 on big money free agents just won't cut it. The FA misses KILL your cap situation. Archuleta, the highest paid safety in NFL HISTORY has been relegated to special teams duty. The structure of his deal may prohibit us cutting him this offseason, even if he never plays another down on defense.

Re: Heartbreaking...this is killing me!!
 

[quote=TheMalcolmConnection;244605]Not me. The Redskins made sweet love to me one late December night. I'll never forget.[/quote]

All 53 or just the starting Offense or D? Jeez, TMC, you're a little whore.

Re: Heartbreaking...this is killing me!!
 

It would be so much easier to accept if we didn't have the talent we have. It is just so hard to understand why we stink... because we shouldn't.

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[QUOTE=Mattyk72;244603]Stop being a fan then. After all, we are the ones that initiate the relationship between fan and team.[/QUOTE]

I kind of agree with 70chip. For fans that pay thousands of dollars for season tickets I do think the team owes that fan a competitive product on the field and some excitement for their $. Right now the skins are not delivering that.

Re: Heartbreaking...this is killing me!!
 

Absolutely. We should not stink. So, what is the solution. I don't want to get stuck on acceptance. Acceptance does not facilitate change. I think the first step is to work in Campbell. We also need to evaluate why the defense is so poor with nearly the same personnel as last year. Is the defense getting too old? Is the scheme to predictable? Identify the problem then fix it. By fix it, I don't mean go out and get the 2002 Pro Bowl defense in free agency.

Re: Heartbreaking...this is killing me!!
 

Thank you irish. I was starting to wonder if I was alone in this sentiment. It almost seemed as if this idea was offensive to some people. I think having a competitive team in return for fan dollars is quite reasonable. It would be awful if the prevailing opinion was "we don't care what the fans think, take what you get or go away" WTF

Re: Heartbreaking...this is killing me!!
 

The solution? Rebuild the right way. Build a coaching staff, a front office, and a plan built for the future. Every year we mortgage the draft and everything else for big time players [b]AND COAHCES[/b]. It's time to find our Cowher, a coach that will be here for a long time. Assistants will always shuffle about when they get head coaching jobs, etc. It's time for the Redskins to put a plan into action, and spend a few more years getting the talent right. We have some great building blocks.

Portis, Campbell, Cooley, Samuels, Thomas (injuries may be a problem), Dockery, Moss, Lloyd, and Randel El all happen to be young enough to work on this rebuilding phase keeping us a solid - mediocre team on offense. Then on defense we have Rogers, Taylor, Washington, Marshall (maybe), Griffin, Carter. McIntosh (hopefully!) as young building blocks. We need to build through the draft, I dont care if every player is making 239842 trillion dollars a year, as long as Snyder and Co find a way to keep us under the cap like they have. However, find and keep players that WANT TO BE HERE (Fred Smoot and Ryan Clark come to mind).

One position entirely ignored by our coaching staff is the roleplayer. The guy that does the dirty work that allows a player like Sean Taylor to roam.

Re: Heartbreaking...this is killing me!!
 

[quote=RedskinRat;244649]All 53 or just the starting Offense or D? Jeez, TMC, you're a little whore.[/quote]

Whatever keeps my faith in the team, RR. Whatever keeps my faith.

Re: Heartbreaking...this is killing me!!
 

Complete agreement, Daseal. The key is to build the right way. This organization speeds to much time in panic mode, looking for the quick fix. We would all like to win now, but recent history tells us all that the current plan is not working. Why can we see this as fans, but the owner and GM cannot?

Re: Heartbreaking...this is killing me!!
 

[quote=70chip13083;244729]Complete agreement, Daseal. The key is to build the right way. This organization speeds to much time in panic mode, looking for the quick fix. We would all like to win now, but recent history tells us all that the current plan is not working. Why can we see this as fans, but the owner and GM cannot?[/quote]

The Skins were 2 wins from the Super Bowl last year. All this team should have needed this year is a "quick fix".

Re: Heartbreaking...this is killing me!!
 

So, one could assume that Saunders system is a major part of the problem on the offensive end

Re: Heartbreaking...this is killing me!!
 

[quote=70chip13083;244811]So, one could assume that Saunders system is a major part of the problem on the offensive end[/quote]


I would agree and the "D" 2nd getting purged in the offseason.

Re: Heartbreaking...this is killing me!!
 

[quote=70chip13083;244553]Let's put this in context, Tafkas. I'm a father of 2 young girls. Obviously, football can never really be compared to family and friends. However, considering that most of have some kind of passion for the Skins and football in general, it does play a role in who we are. Also, since football is a business that is driven by the fans to produce revenue, they do in fact us us something.[/quote]

This is the whole problem. I love Joe Gibbs, he will always be a legend. But when we get our asses kicked all over the field, and Joe apologizes for not stopping to meet fans on their way out and he says he "owes those fans something" there is a huge f*cking problem in my mind. I know it was a couple of weeks ago, the skins don't owe the fans crap. However they should be thinking in the back of their minds that their fans in fact do pay a pretty penny to see them. That should motivate the team, the problem is this team lacks heart and emotion. I don't know what it is, but all this Politically correct bullshit responses that the team is giving after games is getting really old. I want to see people mad, this isn't a happy go lucky atmosphere or situation in washington. All this team owes skins fans is the truth, some emotion on and off the field, and truly show the fans that they care. It is just so baffling to me how this team is this lost at this point of the season.