What the hell is wrong with our Defense?
 

I know there are a lot of "xxxx Sucks blah blah blah" threads about or D but I wanted to open up a discussion to specifically discuss the D in general.

I don't think that our problem resides in any one place more than any other.

If you look at our D you see ONE GUY on the whole unit who makes a positive impact on the game regularly. Washington is it. Everyone else has just totally under-performed for the year. Is it age? Injury? Talent? Maybe the scheme needs some revamping? I don't know. What do you all think?

BTW: I do think our record reflects our Defensive effort this year more than our Offensive. No one will convince me that had Campbell had the ball a little more yesterday we woouldn't have won. Our problem isn't offense but the fact that our D can't stop anyone.

Re: What the hell is wrong with our Defense?
 

ST is the only tackler we have. To much pressure on the safeties trying to cover the run as we have nobody that can stop the rush. Our line is getting blown off the ball, and the running back is getting to the secondary virtually every play. No pressure from the starting line on the passer. Even our blitz's DON"T WORK. I cannot figure out where it went? Our D was FEARED last season??????????????? We did not lose many guys last season?? How many of any real consequence?? The tackling skills of this team would have them doing endless laps in ANY HS program! It's past me.

Oh yea, they look like a bunch of BEAT DOGS----NO FIRE

Re: What the hell is wrong with our Defense?
 

I read a statistic where opposing quaterbacks are posting a 104.7 QB rating against the Redskins this season. I think this statistic speaks volumes. We cannot stop the run and we have no pass rush, our front seven needs to be revamped. I think it is time to see what Rocky can do at weakside LB. Priorities in the draft should be to draft DT/DE, hell, maybe even DT, DE, DT, DE if we even have that many picks.

Re: What the hell is wrong with our Defense?
 

I read a statistic where opposing quaterbacks are posting a 104.7 QB rating against the Redskins

THAT makes you want to throw yourself off a roof

Re: What the hell is wrong with our Defense?
 

The linebacker play is awful, they get blocked often and miss many tackles.

The secondary can't cover.

The d-line can't get any pressure.

Pretty much they all stink! The loss of players for two straight years finally caught up with them. The question I have is why say you can't afford Pierce, then turn around and give Archeleta similar money? Letting Pierce go has been our biggest mistake so far.

Re: What the hell is wrong with our Defense?
 

Well, our pass rush is terrible. I think it all starts and ends with our defensive line. I dont think Lamar Marshall is doing nearly as bad as everyone says at MLB, but I think Rocky should get some starts at WLB and see what we have with him too.

In the secondary, Rogers isnt great, but I dont think he's as bad as anyone says either. On that Galloway TD pass, he was basically left out to dry. 90% of the corners in the league get beat by Galloway one on one with no saftey help. If you look at that play, he didnt stand a chance. Again, he is not great, but he's ok. I think our secondary OVERALL is ok....

Witch brings us to the problem, our defensive line....the same thing that has been our problem defensivley since I can remember. Look, I love Joe Salave'a. He was one of my favorite guys last year, and maybe he just played out of his mind for a while last year, but his production has declined emensily, and he might be no better than a backup...and it really hurts my heart to say that because i love big joe. C. Griff, I still think is a good DT, whos on the downside of his career. He eats up a few blocks every play and I'm not surpised he isnt in on much because he is getting key'd on all the time.

Our defensive ends...are terrible. I'd like to see Demetric Evans play a little more, see what we have there. Carter has been dissapointing, but he changed positions too, so I'm going to give him the benifit of the doubt until next season. See my response about Joe Salave'a and thats pretty much how I feel about Wynn. Absolutley LOVE that guy, but he's just not very good anymore...and I really really hate to say that. Daneils I like, but he dosent generate a huge rush either.

And I think we have been suprisngly outcoached this year too. Rogers said on the chat with ES that his cushions on 3rd and 4 are part of the scheme. Are you kidding me?? That TD to Galloway yesterday really pissed me off too, maybe it was just a good playcall, but seriously... Galloway had to be lickin his chops on that play. Even a 2 yard slant would have gone the distance there was NO ONE over the top......which is luck every now and then, but we've seen it too much this year.

I mean, I dont really know what else to say. Alot of our players are on the downside of their career across the D-line, and that effects the play of the rest of the defense. Same could be said about the offense (with Jansen especially).

THATS IT! THATS THE LIST!

Re: What the hell is wrong with our Defense?
 

The main problem is that the blitzing isn't working at ALL. I think that's a part of schemes. We have basically the same players, but just can't seem to BUY pressure. We couldn't even get pressure against their backup tackle.

Re: What the hell is wrong with our Defense?
 

I think we have gotten old where it counts. Griffin isn't the same as he has been. Joey S never was a great talent and playing next to a diminished Griffin exposes that. Daniels has never been great. Carter is just ok. Holdman is horid. Marshall is just a guy. Washington is quality. Springs has been hurt and isn't 100% yet. Rogers is a major disappointment. He is a nickle back all day. Taylor basically has to do everything and is getting over whelmed. And our Vincent/Arch/Fox combo is adequate at best. We got one guy who can play and one guy who has to do everything else. Everyone else is average at best.

Re: What the hell is wrong with our Defense?
 

[QUOTE=Jason72;248742]The linebacker play is awful, they get blocked often and miss many tackles.

The secondary can't cover.

The d-line can't get any pressure.

Pretty much they all stink! The loss of players for two straight years finally caught up with them. The question I have is why say you can't afford Pierce, then turn around and give Archeleta similar money? Letting Pierce go has been our biggest mistake so far.[/QUOTE]

As much as I tried to turn my head to losing Peirce and Smoot in 04....

That really was the backbreaker....I cant even being to think of what our defense would look like...

I know "Hindsight is always 20/20", but I know a good amount of us were pissed when we did this, so I think we're allowed to point it out.

Re: What the hell is wrong with our Defense?
 

The same thing that's been wrong with it all year. Shitty tackling, guys don't swarm to the ball like they used to, injuries, guys underperforming, a lack of passion, etc. The list goes on and on.

Re: What the hell is wrong with our Defense?
 

[QUOTE=Gmanc711;248748]As much as I tried to turn my head to losing Peirce and Smoot in 04....

That really was the backbreaker....I cant even being to think of what our defense would look like...

I know "Hindsight is always 20/20", but I know a good amount of us were pissed when we did this, so I think we're allowed to point it out.[/QUOTE]

Smoot really wasn't that huge a loss I don't think. Yeah Rogers is struggling and has taken a huge step backward this year, but Smoot really isn't playing any better.

As for Pierce, yeah that hurt us more. But he wasn't here last year either and we seemed to be ok. I think among the several problems we have on D, it all starts with a weak interior line. Griff and the Samoan probably overachieved the past couple of years and now they're running on fumes.

Re: What the hell is wrong with our Defense?
 

[QUOTE=Gmanc711;248748]As much as I tried to turn my head to losing Peirce and Smoot in 04....

That really was the backbreaker....I cant even being to think of what our defense would look like...

I know "Hindsight is always 20/20", but I know a good amount of us were pissed when we did this, so I think we're allowed to point it out.[/QUOTE]

I not convinced that Smoot is much better than we have and that Pierce would make much of a difference all by himself. I do think Pierce is clearly an upgrade over Marshall but lost in the sea of underwhelming talent at we have he'd probably look pretty average too. He isn't a super talent so it'd be hard for him to over come. Kinda like ST has to do in the secondary.

Re: What the hell is wrong with our Defense?
 

Its coaching that does not match the players talents, players that cant do what the coaches need them to do. The unit stinks from top to bottom.

BTW, ST is a good hitter but a terrible tackler. The entire team needs to practice tackling fundamentals.

Re: What the hell is wrong with our Defense?
 

[QUOTE=irish;248754]Its coaching that does not match the players talents, players that cant do what the coaches need them to do. The unit stinks from top to bottom.

BTW, ST is a good hitter but a terrible tackler. The entire team needs to practice tackling fundamentals.[/QUOTE]

At this point I'd ask what "talents"? Who has shown any talent so far this year?

Re: What the hell is wrong with our Defense?
 

The front 7 is the problem. They aren't getting pressure on the QB and they aren't stopping the run. As a result, 3 of the 4 top tacklers on the team are DBs. To me, that's a telling stat about the D's troubles.

Re: What the hell is wrong with our Defense?
 

[quote=FRPLG;248752]I not convinced that Smoot is much better than we have and that Pierce would make much of a difference all by himself. I do think Pierce is clearly an upgrade over Marshall but lost in the sea of underwhelming talent at we have he'd probably look pretty average too. He isn't a super talent so it'd be hard for him to over come. Kinda like ST has to do in the secondary.[/quote]

If everybody is playing uninspired, then you're right, no one man can turn them all around. but Pierce was the signal caller & was praised by the coaches for knowing the playbook & getting all the guys in position. Remember how many times he'd tap a d-tackle on the but to slide them to one side? he was always active before the snap, yet always ready. Compare that w/now, guys are standing around looking at each other & pointing here & there before the snap, but rarely seem to look like they're ready for the play. This D lacks on field leadership & passion. I'll throw in talent as well, but since GW got here, we've never had a really talented D.

Re: What the hell is wrong with our Defense?
 

I agree w/ alot of the posts. The D-line for whatever reason...age, injuries, talent, is pretty weak. No pass rush = big plays. Even our blitzes get picked up easily (something we can't do). Does anyone notice who gets tackles in our defense? It's usually the secondary and rarely the d line. That's not good. Alot of NFL people say its lack of talent and age. They might be right.

Re: What the hell is wrong with our Defense?
 

[QUOTE=FRPLG;248758]At this point I'd ask what "talents"? Who has shown any talent so far this year?[/QUOTE]

Nobody has but I think thats more because the coaching staff cant rework the schemes to fit what the players can do instead of trying to make players fit into schemes they just cant handle.

In the big picture I blame this on the front office and coaches. They selected these players and its obvious they made a bunch of wrong choices.

Re: What the hell is wrong with our Defense?
 

Seems to be a lack of heart and leadership but the bottom line, from where all the problems stem, is lack of talent.

Re: What the hell is wrong with our Defense?
 

maybe those huge contracts hurt the hustle of the D? or age...

i mean, washington is still a stud, but griffin's had a bad year, springs still isn't 100%, taylor's had a really bad year, rogers looks terrible, lemar's been bad, and everyone else is just filler.

time to put mcintosh in... andre lott got walking papers from SD, maybe we should bring him back? right now there's not much to do, but most of our starters on D are old and that might be starting to show.

Re: What the hell is wrong with our Defense?
 

The problem all starts at MLB, Marshall is servicable at times, however, your MLB is the captain of the defense, or your "defensive QB" if you must, and Marshall is clearly not that. We need to sign or draft a distinguished MLB and go from there. Washington is a decent leader but he is OLB, and Holdman shows up once every three weeks. Once we get a good MLB (Posluszny) PSU, Then we can build a D-line.

Re: What the hell is wrong with our Defense?
 

[QUOTE]
[I]I not convinced that Smoot is much better than we have and that Pierce would make much of a difference all by himself. I do think Pierce is clearly an upgrade over Marshall but lost in the sea of underwhelming talent at we have he'd probably look pretty average too. He isn't a super talent so it'd be hard for him to over come. Kinda like ST has to do in the secondary.[/I]
[/QUOTE]

Let me tell you:

1. Smoot is much better. He is at worst an adequate CB. He was actually a good CB most of the time.

2. Pierce would have made a huge difference. He is the QB of the defense, responsible for making the calls and audibles. He has greatly improved the Giants D. With him, Lemar could still be playing WLB, his natural position. So you get two positions upgraded.

3. We don't need Super Talent. What we need is competent players. We had them, we let them go.

4. Think about this: We spent our high draft picks to address areas of need:

Carlos Rogers when Smoot left
Rocky as a replacement for Lavar when Marshall could have just as easily played WLB if we had kept Pierce.

We could have used those picks to draft quality players for our D line. We might have a better defense than we had in GW's first year, if we had kept Smoot and Pierce and built the D line!

Re: What the hell is wrong with our Defense?
 

[QUOTE=TAFKAS;248751]Smoot really wasn't that huge a loss I don't think. Yeah Rogers is struggling and has taken a huge step backward this year, but Smoot really isn't playing any better.

[/QUOTE]

The part that bothers me is that we let smoot go and used a top ten pick to replace him.

The problem with the defence is team speed. Springs was once one of the fastest players in the league, But that was along time ago.
Rogers is quick but not fast.
Marshall isnt that fast, he gets caught up in traffic.
Holdman is too damn slow.
Carter is fast, well he should be but he sucks.
Wynn, daniels are too old and slow to put pressure.
Vincent and Fox are not speed burners.
Taylor has good speed, amazing speed if you consider his size.
Wright and Rumph are slow for cornerbacks.


We dont have guys that can fly around the ball or use their catchup speed when they make a mistake.

Re: What the hell is wrong with our Defense?
 

SECONDARY!!!!!!!!!! Rogers BLOWS!! He plays like he is afraid of the ball, afarid to tackle, afraid of being tackled....

Seriously, he needs to go! I've been saying that since Pre-season!

Re: What the hell is wrong with our Defense?
 

Yes we let Smoot go and replaced him with a top ten pick. Clearly the coaching staff felt Smoot wasn't the player that we think he is and that Rogers would be a better option. I think the problem wasn't letting Smoot go but Rogers simply not being the player that everyone thought he could be. So far.

Re: What the hell is wrong with our Defense?
 

Good post, Gmanc. I completely agree that the troubles start with the D-line. Then it's a chain reaction. No push with the D-line means our LBs get hit by linemen. Only Washington is good enough to deal with this, and Lamar especially cannot. That forces us to blitz too much, and makes our blitzes predictable and ineffective. That exposes our weakened pass D, where we lost Clark and got perhaps the biggest bust in FA history. CBs can only do so much--Rogers hasn't been good, but I agree that no one could have stopped that pass to Galloway--we blitzed, what 8-9 guys and got NO pressure. Once the blitz failed, the play was done.

So, give more time to the rooks on the d line, get demetric in, get back Killings (didn't we cut someone else who had some sacks? Boschetti?). Draft on the d-line, FA for an MLB? And then light a god damn fire under everyone's ass--if you aren't giving the effort, if you are missing tackles and blowing assignments, then you should sit and give someone else a try. I though we had these old school coaches, but it seems they aren't motivating these guys. The poor tackling makes me sick. WTF????

Re: What the hell is wrong with our Defense?
 

[QUOTE=JWsleep;248815]Good post, Gmanc. I completely agree that the troubles start with the D-line. Then it's a chain reaction. No push with the D-line means our LBs get hit by linemen. Only Washington is good enough to deal with this, and Lamar especially cannot. That forces us to blitz too much, and makes our blitzes predictable and ineffective. That exposes our weakened pass D, where we lost Clark and got perhaps the biggest bust in FA history. CBs can only do so much--Rogers hasn't been good, but I agree that no one could have stopped that pass to Galloway--we blitzed, what 8-9 guys and got NO pressure. Once the blitz failed, the play was done.

So, give more time to the rooks on the d line, get demetric in, get back Killings (didn't we cut someone else who had some sacks? Boschetti?). Draft on the d-line, FA for an MLB? And then light a god damn fire under everyone's ass--if you aren't giving the effort, if you are missing tackles and blowing assignments, then you should sit and give someone else a try. I though we had these old school coaches, but it seems they aren't motivating these guys. The poor tackling makes me sick. WTF????[/QUOTE]

I agree 100% about the coaches not motivating these players. In fact it seems as if these coaches (namely Gibbs) are more concerned about making things comfortable for these players, whether its the all white unis the players wanted, the short easy mini camp, the lack of playing time in preseason for starters, it just seems that player motivation is out and player comfort is of utmost important. The record show that this coddling of players is not working.

Re: What the hell is wrong with our Defense?
 

[QUOTE=jamf;248809]The part that bothers me is that we let smoot go and used a top ten pick to replace him.[/QUOTE]

Well I can understand that. I just think that we're making Smoot out to be better than he is because we lost him. We tend to do that with a lot of players. I don't think we'd be markedly better if Smoot was playing corner for us right now. Slightly maybe, but a huge upgrade I don't think so.

Re: What the hell is wrong with our Defense?
 

[QUOTE=hesscl34;248811]SECONDARY!!!!!!!!!! Rogers BLOWS!! He plays like he is afraid of the ball, afarid to tackle, afraid of being tackled....

Seriously, he needs to go! I've been saying that since Pre-season![/QUOTE]

Rogers would look a hell of a lot better if the D-line could get some pressure and the safties gave some support. It's true that he isn't playing like a top 10 pick but he isn't that bad - I'd say he's about average compared with the rest of the D.

It all starts with the d-line though. Just look at our top tacklers - they are all in the secondary - that tells you all that you need to know about the pressure that the front 7 is generating.

Re: What the hell is wrong with our Defense?
 

[QUOTE=TAFKAS;248751]As for Pierce, yeah that hurt us more. But he wasn't here last year either and we seemed to be ok. I think among the several problems we have on D, it all starts with a weak interior line. Griff and the Samoan probably overachieved the past couple of years and now they're running on fumes.[/QUOTE]

Pierce was the unquestioned leader on defense, he brought a huge chip on his shoulder to each and every game and played with extreme intensity. I honestly think Pierce's loss was the biggest F-up this organization has made since 2000.

Re: What the hell is wrong with our Defense?
 

Rogers is sad, I watched him all game, he didn't make one play, besides when he pass interfeared with galloway in the endzone, which turned out to be a fluke TD anyone. I don't think he was even trying, half ass tackle attempts, jogging down the field while galloway highsteps into the endzone. He made me sick. wouldn't surpise me if he was out of the league in a few seasons. Sorry, had to get that off my back.

Re: What the hell is wrong with our Defense?
 

I know that nobody wants to hear this but it's still too early to completely give up on Rogers. I think we need to address the CB situation in the offseason since Springs isn't getting any younger, but Rogers shouldn't be tossed aside just yet.

Re: What the hell is wrong with our Defense?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;248838]I know that nobody wants to hear this but it's still too early to completely give up on Rogers. I think we need to address the CB situation in the offseason since Springs isn't getting any younger, but Rogers shouldn't be tossed aside just yet.[/QUOTE]

I agree. If we are going to start giving up on players who are playing like turd then we won't have many bodies left on either side of the ball. Rogers has talent and could be a decent CB if he was playing in an adequately functioning defense. You can't give up on him after a season and a half.

Re: What the hell is wrong with our Defense?
 

After exhaustive analysis, and copious amounts of alcohol, I have come to the following conclusions regarding our defense:
1) This guy can't do the correct thing because the other guy sucks
2) The other is good enough cause...........who the hell is there???

Conclusion: Every week, the opposition has a party with our D, San Quenten style because they are bad, real bad, REALLY BAD. I thought lack of execution was the problem, and I still do. Sooo.........(you can see it coming) let's execute them

I think our Defense has QUIT! Time to find out who IF ANY wants to play? TB stinks, and we made them look like the Colts!!!!!!

Glad to be of service

Re: What the hell is wrong with our Defense?
 

Until this unit is fixed up front, all the motivation in the world is just a dream. Our front four has NO PLAYMAKERS, and, and you can't get blood out of a turnip. It all comes down to ability, and our guys up front are beset with too much age, and injury to be effective for a sixteen game season. With little in the way of backup, it's unreasonable to assume you'll be able to get through a season without injuries.
I'm convinced that despite our deficiences in the secondary, they would be a much better unit if we could mount a pass rush with four down linemen, and not having to blitz. There needs to be more of a concentrated effort towards building lines, both offensive, and defensive as opposed to the skilled positions, because the lines are the heart and soul of your team.

Re: What the hell is wrong with our Defense?
 

[quote=hesscl34;248811]SECONDARY!!!!!!!!!! Rogers BLOWS!! He plays like he is afraid of the ball, afarid to tackle, afraid of being tackled....

Seriously, he needs to go! I've been saying that since Pre-season![/quote]I'm from the school of thought that says if the D-Line is good, you can make the crappiest of secondaries look good.

So it's not that the secondary has been good, it's that they aren't the big issue here. Rogers is a good tackler and great vs the run (like, tops in the NFL), but obviously struggles in man coverage at times. Notice how he used to hold all the freakin time, and now, never gets called. I think he's going through a transition period from college CB to NFL CB. But when he's done, I think he will be the league's ideal no. 2 corner. The key with him is to make sure he's playing across the field from a true no. 1 corner. If the coaching staff evalutates Springs, and believes he can still be a no. 1, then we are set there and need to stay healthy. If he's too old, that should be our one big FA acquisition.

The real problem is the D Line. With the possible exception of Andre Carter, we probably have to be starting a completely new front 4 by the year 2008.