JOE GIBBS needs to take control
 

[LEFT]Last year Gibbs had the skins on track. Listening to the media talk about his offense he made a change. [B]MISTAKE [/B]Drop the new playbook in the trash and dust his off. Call 100% of the play from his play book. RUN RUN RUN RUN RUN you've got Betts, Duckett, and Rock give them the ball please. Why are we run on 1st down and throwing on 2nd and 3rd. [B]If its not broken don't fix it. GIBBS is a HOF coach he needs to do what he knows works 3 RINGS[/B][/LEFT]

Re: JOE GIBBS needs to take control
 

[quote=DGreen28;249479][LEFT]Last year Gibbs had the skins on track. Listening to the media talk about his offense he made a change. [B]MISTAKE [/B]Drop the new playbook in the trash and dust his off. Call 100% of the play from his play book. RUN RUN RUN RUN RUN you've got Betts, Duckett, and Rock give them the ball please. Why are we run on 1st down and throwing on 2nd and 3rd. [B]If its not broken don't fix it. GIBBS is a HOF coach he needs to do what he knows works 3 RINGS[/B][/LEFT]
[/quote]

I agree that Saunders has gotten a bit off the course. But beside that, you are more than incorrect in your assessment. The offense was more than broke last year. I am beyond pissed with people who say the offense was fine before, plain and simple.

It seems as if you all have completely forgotten about the last two playoff games, and why Saunders was brought in. Do you guys remember 25 yards of offense last year agaisnt Tampa?!?! And the crappy performance agaisnt the Hawks? That will not cut it in the NFL, shit we barely won agaisnt the Eagles at the end of our season, because our offense couldnt cut it, and our D came through.

Like Todd Collins said in the offseason, it will take the entire season to get a hold of, and even longer now that we have a QB change with a young QB.

Seriously people need to stfu, and be patient. Do you guys realize that this continous changing is what has caused the Skins to suck the last decade. Stick with it for atleast another year or two, then come back and talk. Dont blame this crap only on Al, if he had a D to help him out, the Skins would be doing much better.

Last year Gibbs only had 3 people involved in the offense, excluding Brunell. Moss, Cooley and Portis. Those guys did great on our little run, but Ds are smart in the NFL and they caught on. They would stack 8 in the box, and double Moss, and let Cooley get short gains. Our offense collasped the last three games, and we were lucky enough to have a defense that could keep us in games.

Honestly offense, under Gibbs v2.0, has only looked powerful for four games in a row(I am not counting the Philly game because our offense was not good at all, ST won the game), otherwise they have been sub par at best. I am including the 04 season as well in my assessment. Very inconsistent, and not cut for the current NFL.

All you haters need to relax, and realize Al is the best bet for the long run.

Re: JOE GIBBS needs to take control
 

The offense last year was better remember Brunell was QB

Re: JOE GIBBS needs to take control
 

[quote=DGreen28;249483]The offense last year was better remember Brunell was QB[/quote]

Are you even reading my post?? Debate the facts that I have just put up. The offense was terrible last year and very inconsistent, it was the defense that won alot of games for us. Towards the end the offense clicked for 4 games, and then the rest of the NFL picked up.

Re: JOE GIBBS needs to take control
 

THis offense blow out 49ers and was ranked 11th at the end of the year

Re: JOE GIBBS needs to take control
 

[quote=DGreen28;249485]THis offense blow out 49ers and was ranked 11th at the end of the year[/quote]

Right but that stat shows nothing about consistancy at all. That 11th ranking is inflated due to the good performance towards the end of the season. Again, our offense was very easy to read, and it was shutout in the playoffs, when it counts. We shouldnt have even had that Moss TD, 100 percent luck.

Re: JOE GIBBS needs to take control
 

If you change the offense year after year. Its going to be inconsistent. The reason that P. Manning is so successful is that the offense has been the same for years I E he knows it inside and out

Re: JOE GIBBS needs to take control
 

[quote=DGreen28;249488]If you change the offense year after year. Its going to be inconsistent. The reason that P. Manning is so successful is that the offense has been the same for years I E he knows it inside and out[/quote]

Exactly, so why change it again?? Yeah Gibbs is proven, but so is Al Saunders, and he has proven he is successful recently, as opposed to Gibbs being successful in the past. Just like you said, alot of change is bad.

So why not stop calling for Saunders head, give him a chance, and one more year and see what happens, instead of going back to Gibbs again, and reversing the learning process the team has spent for months.


Again if anyone wants to seriously debate, please counter my points made in my original post.

Re: JOE GIBBS needs to take control
 

AT least they made the playoffs last year. If you go to the playoffs you don't reconstruct the offense. So everyone has to learn a new offense all over again.

Re: JOE GIBBS needs to take control
 

All I have to say is KC never went to the SB with AL but GIbbs has 3 rings

Re: JOE GIBBS needs to take control
 

[quote=DGreen28;249490]AT least they made the playoffs last year. If you go to the playoffs you don't reconstruct the offense. So everyone has to learn a new offense all over again.[/quote]

Wrong again, yeah we made it to the playoffs, but our offense didnt make it anywhere at all. The Skins are better than just a playoff team, and they should be able to make it to the further rounds with the current talent.

If we went this year with the same offense I promise you the Ds would have picked up, and we would have similar performances.

Why change? Because we barely made it out of the wild card game, and our offense was culprit. We had bigger and higher dreams, and bc we made the playoffs, we wanted to take it to the next step. Our D was fine last year(I feel that change was not needed at all), but our offense was completely owned.

It was not like we put in a new offense last year and it was taking time to develop, the offense had been in place for two years, but it had never really gotten going. And when it was simplified, it worked for 4 games, and then it was completely stopped.

That is why change was needed. Gibbs system was in place for two years, and it didnt work. It would be beyond unfair to not give Al ATLEAST two years, because he is proven as well.

Re: JOE GIBBS needs to take control
 

The offense isn't even the main issue right now. Fix the D and most of our problems would be solved. I don't know why some people are so intent on focusing on the offense. It's too late for any wholesale changes to the systems at this point in the year anyway.

Re: JOE GIBBS needs to take control
 

[quote=DGreen28;249493]All I have to say is KC never went to the SB with AL but GIbbs has 3 rings[/quote]

Congrats, KC never had a good D. We were suppose to have one this year, but that didnt happen. I honestly felt we would barely make the playoffs this year, and I had somewhat expected the offense not to click right away.

I did not expect our D to suck ass, that why we are in a hole right now. If our D was like last years, we would still be in the running.



If that is all you have to counter me with, then this debate is over.

Re: JOE GIBBS needs to take control
 

[quote=hooskins;249496]Congrats, KC never had a good D. We were suppose to have one this year, but that didnt happen. I honestly felt we would barely make the playoffs this year, and I had somewhat expected the offense not to click right away.

I did not expect our D to suck ass, that why we are in a hole right now. If our D was like last years, we would still be in the running.



If that is all you have to counter me with, then this debate is over.[/quote]

All the skins needed last was WR's not a hole new offense. Do you think that Lloyd and ARE wouldn't have made a difference!

Re: JOE GIBBS needs to take control
 

the real question is would replacing brunell have 'fixed' Gibbs' offense? The O played well until MB got hurt against the NYG. Even Ramsey came in & threw some td's. That inconsistency we saw at the end of last year had a lot to do w/brunell's knees. Teams were stackin the box w/no fear of our passing game.

Re: JOE GIBBS needs to take control
 

[quote=freddyg12;249502]the real question is would replacing brunell have 'fixed' Gibbs' offense? The O played well until MB got hurt against the NYG. Even Ramsey came in & threw some td's. That inconsistency we saw at the end of last year had a lot to do w/brunell's knees. Teams were stackin the box w/no fear of our passing game.[/quote]

I think putting in Ramsey would give us a better chance, but I would have still predicted the same exact result.

I dont feel all of that was because of Brunell's injury, it was because of a very simple offense that the defenses picked up rather easily.

Re: JOE GIBBS needs to take control
 

[quote=Mattyk72;249495]The offense isn't even the main issue right now. Fix the D and most of our problems would be solved. I don't know why some people are so intent on focusing on the offense. It's too late for any wholesale changes to the systems at this point in the year anyway.[/quote]
If the O doesn't control Time of Poss. The defense get wore down by the fourth quarter. That is the key to GIBBS FOOTBALL

Re: JOE GIBBS needs to take control
 

[quote=DGreen28;249504]If the O doesn't control Time of Poss. The defense get wore down by the fourth quarter. That is the key to GIBBS FOOTBALL[/quote]

Al does have a bit adjusting to do, and I am sure he is aware of it. He has gotten away from the run, and I expect more run from him next game.

Regardless, pulling him is NOT the solution. You yourself have clearly stated changing offense alot is bad. Ok we changed to Al, he is proven, so lets keep it.

Gibbs v2.0 got two full years, and it was inconsistent. Now give Al two years, dont be hypocritical.

Re: JOE GIBBS needs to take control
 

[quote=hooskins;249503]I think putting in Ramsey would give us a better chance, but I would have still predicted the same exact result.

I dont feel all of that was because of Brunell's injury, it was because of a very simple offense that the defenses picked up rather easily.[/quote]

Keep it simple so the offensive players understand it. It does not matter how complex the playbbook is if the QB does not understand. But your right about Ramsey

Re: JOE GIBBS needs to take control
 

[quote=hooskins;249506]Al does have a bit adjusting to do, and I am sure he is aware of it. He has gotten away from the run, and I expect more run from him next game.

Regardless, pulling him is NOT the solution. You yourself have clearly stated changing offense alot is bad. Ok we changed to Al, he is proven, so lets keep it.

Gibbs v2.0 got two full years, and it was inconsistent. Now give Al two years, dont be hypocritical.[/quote]


GIBBS is the head coach and Al is not. Look at the Ravens situation

Re: JOE GIBBS needs to take control
 

I know alot of the Redskins fan base thinks like this, but I seriously hope that the front office and Gibbs are not thinking like this.

Everyone knows consistancy is important to winning, and the Skins should know this, seeing that we suck more than Red Light District hooker with all of our changes in the past decade.

I will be beyond frustrated if Al is cut.

Re: JOE GIBBS needs to take control
 

[quote=DGreen28;249508]GIBBS is the head coach and Al is not. Look at the Ravens situation[/quote]

Al is doing what Gibbs mainly did last year, he is running the offense. Gibbs ran the offense last year.

We are not talking about personel moves, etc, we are only talking about playcalling.

Re: JOE GIBBS needs to take control
 

And yeah if you look at Baltimore, they have an amazing defense that creates turnovers, and their offense is not doing much better with Fassel being cut(it was him right?). I think he was a scapegoat for the problems they have in Baltimore.

I contest that if we had a D like Baltimore and the current Al Saunders offense, we would be a front runner for the playoffs.

Re: JOE GIBBS needs to take control
 

[quote=hooskins;249510]Al is doing what Gibbs mainly did last year, he is running the offense. Gibbs ran the offense last year.

We are not talking about personel moves, etc, we are only talking about playcalling.[/quote]

No run plays. Is Al's O the new RUN and Shoot. If they run that pitch on more time I gonna die

Re: JOE GIBBS needs to take control
 

[quote=hooskins;249503]I think putting in Ramsey would give us a better chance, but I would have still predicted the same exact result.

I dont feel all of that was because of Brunell's injury, it was because of a very simple offense that the defenses picked up rather easily.[/quote]

but you can't deny MB's production was at least avg. all year until the last 3 games (including playoffs). It's hard to judge Gibbs' offense in those 3 games cause Brunell couldn't operate 100%.
I'll agree w/you that the O still needed tweaking, but it worked to some extent.
I was excited when we hired Saunders & its too early to judge the move, our O might be unstopable next year & after, but if it is less than explosive then I think many will look back & say that Gibbs could've achieved the same w/out complicating things by bringing in a new coordinator.
I think we'll be alright w/JC & a yr. of this new O under our belt. Hope so anyway!

Re: JOE GIBBS needs to take control
 

[quote=DGreen28;249514]No run plays. Is Al's O the new RUN and Shoot. If they run that pitch on more time I gonna died[/quote]

Our Oline isnt fit for that stuff like the Oline in KC was, and I think Al realizes that.

Expect more runs up the gut next week.

Re: JOE GIBBS needs to take control
 

[quote=freddyg12;249515]but you can't deny MB's production was at least avg. all year until the last 3 games (including playoffs). It's hard to judge Gibbs' offense in those 3 games cause Brunell couldn't operate 100%.
I'll agree w/you that the O still needed tweaking, but it worked to some extent.
I was excited when we hired Saunders & its too early to judge the move, our O might be unstopable next year & after, but if it is less than explosive then I think many will look back & say that Gibbs could've achieved the same w/out complicating things by bringing in a new coordinator.
I think we'll be alright w/JC & a yr. of this new O under our belt. Hope so anyway![/quote]

I agree with your assessment of Saunders, like I have been saying give him atleast one more year with Campbell.

That still may not be enough to win if our D doesnt make some drastic improvements next year.

Re: JOE GIBBS needs to take control
 

Yeah MBs peformance was average, but statistics are misleading, like they are this year. MB has stellar numbers this year, but we all know the way he plays is not cut for winning games.

Last year his numbers come around average because of those games before the playoffs, and maybe one or two before that in the regular season.

You guys are forgetting, he had some pretty shitty games.

Re: JOE GIBBS needs to take control
 

[quote=DGreen28;249479][LEFT]Last year Gibbs had the skins on track. Listening to the media talk about his offense he made a change. [B]MISTAKE [/B]Drop the new playbook in the trash and dust his off. Call 100% of the play from his play book. RUN RUN RUN RUN RUN you've got Betts, Duckett, and Rock give them the ball please. Why are we run on 1st down and throwing on 2nd and 3rd. [B]If its not broken don't fix it. GIBBS is a HOF coach he needs to do what he knows works 3 RINGS[/B][/LEFT]
[/quote]

Has Gibbs some how lost control?

3 rings from the 80's and 90's means nothing today.

The "O" was broken last year and is broke this year.

Look at this year depth chart and compare offense to defense ("O" with 5 running backs, 5 wide outs and 3 tight ends) This all smells of Joe Gibbs.

Re: JOE GIBBS needs to take control
 

Hypothetical: If Gibbs leaves and another coach comes in and fails and Gibbs says he will come back for a 3rd try would the redskins faithful be excited?

I dont think so.

Re: JOE GIBBS needs to take control
 

What I really liked about last year's O was our protection packages. I remember hearing teams complain about how stacked our line was and how difficult it was to put pressure on Brunell.

Re: JOE GIBBS needs to take control
 

[quote=theJBexperience;249534]What I really liked about last year's O was our protection packages. I remember hearing teams complain about how stacked our line was and how difficult it was to put pressure on Brunell.[/quote]

Right, so they just dropped back into coverage, and stopped Moss and Cooley, and game over.

I agree protection is good, but to an extent, it severely limited our offensive options.

Re: JOE GIBBS needs to take control
 

[quote=DGreen28;249504]If the O doesn't control Time of Poss. The defense get wore down by the fourth quarter. That is the key to GIBBS FOOTBALL[/quote]

c'mon dude gimme a break.

The defense can't stop anything right now. The offense would literally need to hold the ball the entire game.

The key to Gibbs football is pounding the rock AND stopping the run.

Re: JOE GIBBS needs to take control
 

there are a couple of things to look at. Gibbs offense was 11th, but did faulter when our 2nd option at WR went down with injury (patton) The reason we were able to win was the D. we played a style of gibbs offense which put the ball in Portis hands and let the Oline beat people up. Again, our D kept us alive in those games. 2ndly, Gibbs offense produced a very potent offense when he was here the first time. once having 3 1000 yard receivers. I do think if gibbs had kept control with the addtion of 1 or the 2 guys we picked up this year we would have been better this year. keeping the same scheme in tact would have been best.
bringing in Sauders : statistically, his offense is not that good in the first year. he generall is in the middle to bottom in the first year. Brunell didn't help that situation. What needs to be addressed is the fact the O-line is best equiped to run a Gibbs style offense. When they took over last year they attacked the defense, and ran smash mouth. that is what they are best at. if you keep changing offensive shcemes year to year we as fans can not expect it to be a finely tuned machine. Now if Saunders is still on board next year, we should see an increase in the ranking and overall productivety.

in short. I agree Gibbs should have never given control of HIS offense to anyone.

Re: JOE GIBBS needs to take control
 

[quote=Mattyk72;249537]c'mon dude gimme a break.

The defense can't stop anything right now. The offense would literally need to hold the ball the entire game.

The key to Gibbs football is pounding the rock AND stopping the run.[/quote]
I agree.

Most people do not realize how awful our defense really is this year. If our D was halfway decent we would be in the hunt. Most Brunell haters still would be shocked, because I think Brunell would still be the starter if our D was performing well.

If you look at performance, Brunell hasnt been much worst than McNair or Plummer, but both those guys are starters. It is because they have the D to back them up.

Our defense not only gives up big plays, it does not create turnovers. I have compared our D to the Cincy D last year. Cincy gave up big plays, but they came up with alot of turnovers. The Skins would be successful if that coud happen.

If we get turnovers, then we have more chances to score, and less chances for the opponent. Simple as that.

Dont get me wrong, I don think Saunders has been amazing. I wouldnt even say he has been really good, he has been ok. I am a bit disappointed, because I had hoped the offense had clicked earlier, but I still think the offense would be better if the D helped em out a bit.

Saunders has gone away from the run a bit, and our lineman arent doing what he wants. I am positive he will adjust to that next game.

Again I feel people are looking for blame where there isnt any. Defense is the major problem this year.

Re: JOE GIBBS needs to take control
 

Sure there is room for offensive improvement but the Redskins offense is as good if not better than last year...the problem here is DEFENSE! If you put this years defense on last years team that would be a 3-7 team as well. They are not playing good enough defense to win any football games right now.

Re: JOE GIBBS needs to take control
 

[quote=DGreen28;249479][LEFT]Last year Gibbs had the skins on track. Listening to the media talk about his offense he made a change. [B]MISTAKE [/B]Drop the new playbook in the trash and dust his off. Call 100% of the play from his play book. RUN RUN RUN RUN RUN you've got Betts, Duckett, and Rock give them the ball please. Why are we run on 1st down and throwing on 2nd and 3rd. [B]If its not broken don't fix it. GIBBS is a HOF coach he needs to do what he knows works 3 RINGS[/B][/LEFT]
[/quote]

Did you look at the offese at all the last half of the season???????????? Did you see the 41 yards passing against TB? Did you see how many consecutive 3 and outs we had against Seattle in the playoffs? Did you see the games against Philly and Ariz during the last few weeks of the season when we needed the defense to score and bail us out? I'm so tired of everyone crying about running more. Yes we do need to run more but let's not get carried away. We need a little more balance but that is hard when the other team has the frickin ball more than you do. Bottom line is our offense was too predictable last year. That's why AS was brought in here. This guy knows how to coach a modern NFL offense. Personally I hope Gibbs does not call the plays becasue he was horrible at it. WAY TO CONSERVATIVE. We would get ahead and then run and not pass and lose. Remember Oakland and San Diego last year? Horrible conservative play calling lost those games. The main problem with this team is along the offensive and defensive lines. That's were it all starts.

Re: JOE GIBBS needs to take control
 

Wherever Al goes, the defense sucks, maybe he puts something in the defenders' water to keep the focus off his offense.

Re: JOE GIBBS needs to take control
 

Gibbs' offense last year was very good in some respects, but it was missing an intermediate to vertical passing game (which Gibbs himself said we were missing). Maybe Gibbs would have been able to establish a better passing O with Campbell, ARE, and Lloyd.

Re: JOE GIBBS needs to take control
 

It's true, our D is even worse than it seems. They clamp down sometimes in the redzone,which keeps the points given up total from becoming embaressing, however, by the time they do that, they have given up an endless number of first downs and 10 minutes of possession time (KILLER). And the timing of these points and yards given up is even more killer, right after we score, we have given up points every F^%(*&^in time, so demoralizing to the offense. We had them pinned on the 2 with a lead, what happened next.........85 yard, 10 minute drive. The offense from last year would have been shutout half of the games with that type of defensive performance. Running the ball with a small back....portis into a 10 man stacked box is not my idea of ball possession.