Betts or Portis debate (merged)
 

Portis should be dealt in the offseason. betts and tj equal his production and would be [B]MUCH[/B] cheaper. we could get a high round draft pick and loosen up some cap. could use that to fix our scrub secondary

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[quote=jdockser;254782]Portis should be dealt in the offseason. betts and tj equal his production and would be [B]MUCH[/B] cheaper. we could get a high round draft pick and loosen up some cap. could use that to fix our scrub secondary[/quote]
ive been saying that for a long time i totally agree running backs are a dime a dozen

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Here, i'm gonna say it and hope that you change your mind.

There are a lot of asinine statements made on this board, and that is one of them. Teams respect Portis a hell of a lot more than they do Betts and Duckett, and for good reason too.

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that's just stupid...we really are some of the most fickle fans. So far, I've heard at different times...Fire Gibbs, Fire Al Saunders, cut Janson, and now Cut Portis...people need to think about what got us into this mess...doesn't ANYONE remember Trung Canidate???!!!!

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[quote=AlvinWalton'sNeckBrace;254790]that's just stupid...we really are some of the most fickle fans. So far, I've heard at different times...Fire Gibbs, Fire Al Saunders, cut Janson, and now Cut Portis...people need to think about what got us into this mess...doesn't ANYONE remember Trung Canidate???!!!![/quote]
i like portis and all but he wasnt worth champ and the pick we gave up for him

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No Portis. No playoffs last year.

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[quote=Citizens for 81;254797]No Portis. No playoffs last year.[/quote]
i dont buy that, no defense no playoffs last year brunell had a good year too and moss

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[quote=Citizens for 81;254797]No Portis. No playoffs last year.[/quote]

i'll buy it

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[quote=dall-assblows;254806]i'll buy it[/quote]
please explain why

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[quote=charlielyons;254812]please explain why[/quote]

It doesn't have to be explained if you saw the games. He was the entire offense down the stretch.

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[quote=Citizens for 81;254823]It doesn't have to be explained if you saw the games. He was the entire offense down the stretch.[/quote]
so i guess he was the one with 1500 rec yards and 23 passing tds.... and he returned the fumbles into the endzone and plays def.

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[quote=charlielyons;254826]so i guess he was the one with 1500 rec yards and 23 passing tds.... and he returned the fumbles into the endzone and plays def.[/quote]

No he was the one with the redskin record of 1500+ yrd rushing.

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[quote=Citizens for 81;254832]No he was the one with the redskin record of 1500+ yrd rushing.[/quote]
big deal , we would have won nothing without our solid def.

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[quote=charlielyons;254837]big deal , we would have won nothing without our solid def.[/quote]True, but we would have just blamed Brunell for it.

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[quote=charlielyons;254837]big deal , we would have won nothing without our solid def.[/quote]

The defense was solid all year. The difference down the stretch was Portis and the o-line's ability to grind it out and ice the games.

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[quote=charlielyons;254803]i dont buy that, no defense no playoffs last year brunell had a good year too and moss[/quote]

You are correct. Defense got us there and won the TB game. If the right deal is on the table, and we could get some draft picks, I would trade Portis in a hearbeat. Betts, Duckett and Cartwright could handle the load. People forget Betts is a 2nd round draft pick and should be the starter anyway. Normal teams have their 2nd rounders, that have been around while starting. Not playing 2nd string.

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Portis had 127 carries in 8 games.A average of 15 carries a game.In the last 2 weeks Betts has averaged 26 carries a game.Portis never ran the ball 25 times or more this year.So give Portis the ball 25 to 30 times a game and then see what happens.People that say trade Portis are stupid.He is one of the best backs in the NFL.What no one understands is he was not the same after the shoulder injury.If this team traded Portis i would be done with them.Thats why we suck in the first place.We let Smoot,Pierce and Clack go.Let CP go you guys are stupid.I see threads all the time b**ching all the time about Clark.We need to keep our team together for a season or 2.

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[quote=skinsfan69;254851]You are correct. Defense got us there and won the TB game. If the right deal is on the table, and we could get some draft picks, I would trade Portis in a hearbeat. Betts, Duckett and Cartwright could handle the load. People forget Betts is a 2nd round draft pick and should be the starter anyway. Normal teams have their 2nd rounders, that have been around while starting. Not playing 2nd string.[/quote]
exactly

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Yeah, lets divide the team some more and get rid of what few real leaders we have. Dump our most productive and competitive players right now. That's a GREAT idea. Brilliant! (sarcasm).

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[quote=Smurf85;254879]Portis had 127 carries in 8 games.A average of 15 carries a game.In the last 2 weeks Betts has averaged 26 carries a game.Portis never ran the ball 25 times or more this year.So give Portis the ball 25 to 30 times a game and then see what happens.People that say trade Portis are stupid.He is one of the best backs in the NFL.What no one understands is he was not the same after the shoulder injury.If this team traded Portis i would be done with them.Thats why we suck in the first place.We let Smoot,Pierce and Clack go.Let CP go you guys are stupid.I see threads all the time b**ching all the time about Clark.We need to keep our team together for a season or 2.[/quote]

One thing you have to realize is this team is NO quality depth. None what so ever. Plus some starters need to be replaced. So how do you get better? Go out and get more free agents? I think we all know that's not the way to go. So we have got to do it possibly by drafting and bringing in some free agents. How do we get draft picks since we have none? You have to give up something in order to get something. In other words we may have to take two steps back before we take one forward.

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[quote=skinsfan69;254895]One thing you have to realize is this team is NO quality depth. None what so ever. Plus some starters need to be replaced. So how do you get better? Go out and get more free agents? I think we all know that's not the way to go. So we have got to do it possibly by drafting and bringing in some free agents. How do we get draft picks since we have none? You have to give up something in order to get something. In other words we may have to take two steps back before we take one forward.[/quote]

So trading one of the best rb's in the league for a bunch of picks that may or may not be busts is the answer?

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[quote=skinsfan69;254895][B]One thing you have to realize is this team is NO quality depth.[/B] None what so ever. Plus some starters need to be replaced. So how do you get better? Go out and get more free agents? I think we all know that's not the way to go. So we have got to do it possibly by drafting and bringing in some free agents. How do we get draft picks since we have none? You have to give up something in order to get something. In other words we may have to take two steps back before we take one forward.[/quote]We can't fix this through the draft immediately, but if it is decided that GW has lost his unit, we can dump his players immediately.

I think that unless we see improvement in the last 4 games, it will be a few years before the D is any better than respectable. But our offense should be around the top of the league next year...so its best to cut all the dead weight (clarifcation: age) off the defense THIS offseason if thats the route we choose.

We can be a .500 club next season (playoffs with a considerable amount of luck) with a bunch of UDFAs on D playing with Sean Taylor, Andre Carter, and Carlos Rogers, if it came to that. But if we keep the D we have now, and are then only a .500 club, now we have a BIG problem.

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[quote=Citizens for 81;254899]So trading one of the best rb's in the league for a bunch of picks that may or may not be busts is the answer?[/quote]

If the right deal is one the table than yes. If a deal has multiple picks then you do it in a hearbeat. That is how you get better. Look at the Cowboys current of young draft picks. Ware, James, Spears, Canty, Jones, Romo and Neuman. I'm sure I'm leaving a few out. They have young draft picks that are producing for them. Remember the Hershal Walker trade? Plus if you know anything about football, and I'm sure you do, then you know that you can find and win with average RB's. I think Betts has proven he can be a very good back in this league.

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[quote=Citizens for 81;254899]So trading one of the best rb's in the league for a bunch of picks that may or may not be busts is the answer?[/quote]The key is to keep the O intact and let it grow into one of the leagues best. You cut the fat on the defensive side of the ball.

This does two things:

#1 We dont find ourselves in cap hell come 2008 and beyond.
#2 We could find some inexpensive cornerstones on defense such as another AP.

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totally agree with this thread, however lets see how we deal with betts in his contract year because we could get a good pick from him too.

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Now I've heard it all!

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I'm sorry, but CP does alot more than just run. He's awesome in pass protection. Something that Betts is horrible at.

CP has homerun hitter potential, like Moss. He can change a game on one play. Haven't quite seen that from Betts.

And I love his toughness. Dude is nails. However, if we could get a stud pass rusher in the deal...

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Yeah this is a good idea lets get rid of our starter and use a back up. It sure worked when we got rid of Davis and got Canidate.

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i cant believe that you all are writing portis off. he was injured this whole season and set the redskins all-time rushing record. that isnt something that happens everyday. and also, does anyone remember betts' injury problems? this is the first year he has been totally healthy i believe.

BTW both duckett and betts are free agents and are going to cost a lot of money, atleast betts will after this season, that plus the cap hit we'd take (i dont know but id assume it would be high), plus the leadership portis has etc...not worth it AT ALL

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[quote=Big C;255095]i cant believe that you all are writing portis off. he was injured this whole season and set the redskins all-time rushing record. that isnt something that happens everyday. and also, does anyone remember betts' injury problems? this is the first year he has been totally healthy i believe.

BTW both duckett and betts are free agents and are going to cost a lot of money, atleast betts will after this season, that plus the cap hit we'd take (i dont know but id assume it would be high), plus the leadership portis has etc...not worth it AT ALL[/quote]Also we don't want to do anything to lower the quality of the offense, espicially if we start from scratch on the defense.

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yea but what you dont seem to realize is that some of the good run betts had today would have gone farther with Portis simply becuase he is a better back, faster, and has better vision. Portis would have produced more then Betts today without question.

But i do think we should trade Moss, i mean we have Brandon Loyd and Randle El and thrash is playing decent:cheeky-sm

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[quote=Big C;255095]i cant believe that you all are writing portis off. he was injured this whole season and set the redskins all-time rushing record. that isnt something that happens everyday. and also, does anyone remember betts' injury problems? this is the first year he has been totally healthy i believe.

BTW both duckett and betts are free agents and are going to cost a lot of money, atleast betts will after this season, that plus the cap hit we'd take (i dont know but id assume it would be high), plus the leadership portis has etc...not worth it AT ALL[/quote]

Nobody's ripping Portis. We all know he is a stud. All we are saying is if the right deal is on the table then it's something that should be looked at.

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[quote=skinsfan69;255190]Nobody's ripping Portis. We all know he is a stud. All we are saying is if the right deal is on the table then it's something that should be looked at.[/quote]

So in this hypothetical world where Portis is trade-bait. What would you classify as "the right deal".

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[quote=skinsfan69;255190]Nobody's ripping Portis. We all know he is a stud. All we are saying is if the right deal is on the table then it's something that should be looked at.[/quote]
Yeah I mean if SD wants to trade LT for Portis I would be all for it.

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[QUOTE=hooskins;255197]Yeah I mean if SD wants to trade LT for Portis I would be all for it.[/QUOTE]

I'm sorry for calling you all idiots if you wanted to trade Portis....hooskins is right...if SD wants to trade LT, then you guys are right....otherwise, it makes no sense to even discuss.

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[quote=Gmanc711;255198]I'm sorry for calling you all idiots if you wanted to trade Portis....hooskins is right...if SD wants to trade LT, then you guys are right....otherwise, it makes no sense to even discuss.[/quote]

Agreed.

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Think about it logically. The only reason to ever trade Portis(barring injury) is if we are sure the back we have/will get shall be atleast as good as, if not better than Portis. I do not see how that would ever be met, seeing that most teams do not want to give up a back of Portis's caliber and because Betts will never be near Portis skillwise.

Bring this thread up again in 3-4 years if one of the RBs we draft ends up being a stud.

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[quote=Citizens for 81;255193]So in this hypothetical world where Portis is trade-bait. What would you classify as "the right deal".[/quote]

Look at teams like the Jets, Raiders, GB or Texans. Texans would be a perfect team that would listen. Kubiak was the OC in Denver while Portis was there. They will run the plays he likes. They are under the cap, and they could be willing to deal some draft picks. Houston needs a stud runner. They could offer 2 number ones. They could offer Donta Robinson and a number one. I would take that trade if it was on the table becasue we are in real trouble in the secondary.

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[quote=hooskins;255201]Think about it logically. The only reason to ever trade Portis(barring injury) is if we are sure the back we have/will get shall be atleast as good as, if not better than Portis. I do not see how that would ever be met, seeing that most teams do not want to give up a back of Portis's caliber and because Betts will never be near Portis skillwise.

Bring this thread up again in 3-4 years if one of the RBs we draft ends up being a stud.[/quote]

You are correct. Betts is not in the same class as Portis. You have no argument on that. I love Portis as our back. But we can win with Betts as our starter. We CAN'T WIN with the shape the defense is in. Do you know why teams like Balt, Car, Dall, SD, NE and Chi are going to be good for a long time? Becasue they field solid defense and have good young defensive players. With all the talk you here about Brady ( he deserves all the praise he gets) NE has had a very sturdy defensive line that is tough as nails to run on. If the right offer comes along where we could vastly improve the defense I would move Portis. Like I said before, we might have to take two steps back in order to take one forward.

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Of course anyone can be traded for the right deal. If we got offered Herschel Walker #s of draft picks, that'd be something to think about. Doubt that happens though.
Aside from Portis' strong overall ability, trading the guy that's become a team leader & face of the franchise will only further sink the team's chemistry at a time when it's very vulnerable. This is another quick fix idea, I thought our fans had gotten wise to this way of thinking.