Not enough protection for Campbell along with Campbell's inexperience=offensive woes
 

This has been mentioned in several threads across the board, but I thought it was important to organize the thoughts. I feel that the offense struggled to be consistent because of two main things.
[B]1-[/B]
After the first quarter it seems that the Falcons figured out how to stop our offense, pressure JC. After a while they figured out how to stuff the run, and forced us into passing downs. It seemed like on every passing play, especially 3rd and longs, they brought the house, and JC looked like a deer in the headlights.

Not adjusting to this was Saunders biggest mistake IMO. He should have changed things so that JC would have more protection when passing, especially on third downs.

He also ran play action way too much, and JC was getting hammer right after he faked the handoff. I understand why he did that, seeing that we were running all over them. But after a couple failed PA passes, he should have tried to straight pass to give Campbell more time. Of course this isn't all his fault, because Campbell is a young QB, and even he has admitted it takes him a while to make his reads. Either way, Saunders should have adjusted based on Campbell's skill level.

[B]2-[/B]
It seems like everyone is ready to blame Gibbs/Saunders when Campbell didn't have a great game. Of course we shouldn't expect him to be amazing, but that doesn't mean we absolve him of all blame. He had three basic errors.

a)[I]His selection of passes were very predictable, and almost Brunell-like.[/I] He went Moss nine times I think, going 7-9. While his percentage with other recievers was quite low. Cooley did drop a few, so that is not Campbell's fault, but other passes were simply bad. They were off target, low, etc. Some of this is due to pressure but some are just a young QB's errors. He threw to a double covered Moss once, when he wasn't under pressure.

b)[I]Campbell took too many steps back, instead of releasing quickly[/I]. This is a combination of the playcalling and Campbell being uncomfortable. Saunders should have told him to do quick three step drops, but at the same time if he isn't yet comfortable doing so, how can Saunders force him to? I think he is taking 7 step drops because he is still young, and he feels he needs time and space to read the D. 2-3 step passes may be a bit too quick for him.

c)[I]The windup[/I]. Yes I said it. He takes a bit too long to release the throw. I expect this to be changed in the offseason, and I don't expect or want it to be fixed now. JC is just throwing how he feels is best. Nevertheless, the extra half second it takes him to windup can easily be the difference between a TD and a sack.

Re: Not enough protection for Campbell along with Campbell's inexperience=offensive w
 

Thoughts?

Re: Not enough protection for Campbell along with Campbell's inexperience=offensive w
 

well said hooskins. I was at the game and noticed his long drops every time he passed the ball. And by the end of the game the defense was cluing on that.

Re: Not enough protection for Campbell along with Campbell's inexperience=offensive w
 

The lack of good protection is what was most obvious to me. Too often he had guys running at him totally unblocked. That's a tough task for any QB let alone an inexperienced one.

Re: Not enough protection for Campbell along with Campbell's inexperience=offensive w
 

Maybe I missed it but why wont the coaches let JC run out of a shotgun? It would give him more time to read the D and not have to worry about dropping back. Its these little things this coaching staff just does not do that makes me wonder about them.

Re: Not enough protection for Campbell along with Campbell's inexperience=offensive w
 

[quote=Luxorreb;255696]well said hooskins. I was at the game and noticed his long drops every time he passed the ball. And by the end of the game the defense was cluing on that.[/quote]

haha yeah, it's almost like we need a combination of brunell and campbell, cause now campbell is struggling on the short quick throws that brunell made so effortlessly. JK, but seriously, we only threw that slant rout once, we needed to utilize that on third down when they were sending all their linebackers.

Re: Not enough protection for Campbell along with Campbell's inexperience=offensive w
 

Another point that most people here seem to miss is that Betts and Sellers seem to whiff their blocks when they are suppose to protect JC. I think JC got pressured even more because Portis was a great blocker, much better than Betts.

The Redskins are nothing without Portis. I still can't believe people want him out of here.

Re: Not enough protection for Campbell along with Campbell's inexperience=offensive w
 

[quote=irish;255702]Maybe I missed it but why wont the coaches let JC run out of a shotgun? It would give him more time to read the D and not have to worry about dropping back. Its these little things this coaching staff just does not do that makes me wonder about them.[/quote]
Well I think they wanted to keep the D honest, and make them expect run. This way they could pass more effectively, but they should have thrown that plan out by the forth quarter.

Re: Not enough protection for Campbell along with Campbell's inexperience=offensive w
 

Agreed.

Too many offensive woes and not enough offensive WHOAS!

Re: Not enough protection for Campbell along with Campbell's inexperience=offensive w
 

[quote=Mattyk72;255700]The lack of good protection is what was most obvious to me. Too often he had guys running at him totally unblocked. That's a tough task for any QB let alone an inexperienced one.[/quote]


AMEN! What's the point in wanting your QB to do well and pass well if you aren't going to try and protect him? Lets face it. We miss Portis. Betts is good, dont get me wrong, he had a great GAME. He doesnt block as well as Portis does and that hurts. Just please guys, give JC a little time. He's young and getting a little wiser I think, even though its hard to say that after the 1st Int he threw. Regardless, protect JC, end of story.

Re: Not enough protection for Campbell along with Campbell's inexperience=offensive w
 

campbells drops in the pocket are what he has practiced. the only difference is the line isnt blocking. im ready to go back to max protection and 2 wide receiver routes

Re: Not enough protection for Campbell along with Campbell's inexperience=offensive w
 

[QUOTE=hooskins;255659]

b)[I]Campbell took too many steps back, instead of releasing quickly[/I]. This is a combination of the playcalling and Campbell being uncomfortable. Saunders should have told him to do quick three step drops, but at the same time if he isn't yet comfortable doing so, how can Saunders force him to? I think he is taking 7 step drops because he is still young, and he feels he needs time and space to read the D. 2-3 step passes may be a bit too quick for him.

c)[I]The windup[/I]. Yes I said it. He takes a bit too long to release the throw. I expect this to be changed in the offseason, and I don't expect or want it to be fixed now. JC is just throwing how he feels is best. Nevertheless, the extra half second it takes him to windup can easily be the difference between a TD and a sack.[/QUOTE]

Campbell seems to be in slow motion on his delivery. He has great velocity, but man that ball takes forever to get out. I think we will need to live with it. It's hard to break down a QB's mechanics and rebuild.

Campbell had some time on plays and missed. It's no big deal, it's to be expected. Let's not throw the OL under the bus. They weren't that bad. Campbell showed some sparks that have been missing. I think he'll be good next year when has the rest of this season to learn, and all the offseason to learn the books and take the snaps under center during practice / preseason. Campbell has the intangibles that we've been looking for. Just be patient guys. The best way to look at it is "our season is done", as soon as we all come to grips with that, the better we can see what we need and who is showing sparks of greatness. When we lost our 7th game, I had the mental mindset that the season was over. It's easier to see the team for what they are. Beleive it or not, we're not that far away from being a superbowl caliber team. Time and a couple key free agents will be the answer. CB and Kicker should be our area of focus for the free agents, then get a quality draft. The rest will come together. We were too optimistic to beleive that we could succeed with a new offensive system and a lot of injuries on the defensive side of the ball and no depth.

Re: Not enough protection for Campbell along with Campbell's inexperience=offensive w
 

[quote=JGisLordOfTheRings;256114]AMEN! What's the point in wanting your QB to do well and pass well if you aren't going to try and protect him? Lets face it. We miss Portis. Betts is good, dont get me wrong, he had a great GAME. He doesnt block as well as Portis does and that hurts. Just please guys, give JC a little time. He's young and getting a little wiser I think, even though its hard to say that after the 1st Int he threw. Regardless, protect JC, end of story.[/quote]
I don't think people are done with Campbell lol. He is the future and we know he has potential. But that doesn't mean you baby him and not point out his flaws.

Re: Not enough protection for Campbell along with Campbell's inexperience=offensive w
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;255700]The lack of good protection is what was most obvious to me. Too often he had guys running at him totally unblocked. That's a tough task for any QB let alone an inexperienced one.[/QUOTE]



That's where we miss Portis in the backfield, and Betts shows his liability, a couple of plays in Sunday's game is an example of what I'm talking about.

Re: Not enough protection for Campbell along with Campbell's inexperience=offensive w
 

[QUOTE=hooskins;255684]Thoughts?[/QUOTE]



The amount of steps the QB takes in his drop is predicated on the design of the play. Some plays call for a three step drop, and others may call for anything from a five to seven step drop. However many steps the play calls for, you must have protection beyond a couple seconds. Jason Campbell got in trouble a couple times Sunday because the backs in the backfield were not efficient at picking up the blitz. There's no way you can throw it if you don't have time, and by Jason being young, he panicked, tried to make something happen, and wound up making a costly mistake.

Re: Not enough protection for Campbell along with Campbell's inexperience=offensive w
 

[quote=Longtimefan;256174]That's where we miss Portis in the backfield, and Betts shows his liability, a couple of plays in Sunday's game is an example of what I'm talking about.[/quote]
Yeah I agree, most people dont realize how good Portis actually is.

Re: Not enough protection for Campbell along with Campbell's inexperience=offensive w
 

[QUOTE=hooskins;255684]Thoughts?[/QUOTE]

What about how low Campbell has to squat under center? That has to slow him down even more. He has to go from that position into his back pedal, and then the long wind up to pass the ball. The pass protection has to be perfect to allow that much time from Center - QB exchange to Campbell passing.

Re: Not enough protection for Campbell along with Campbell's inexperience=offensive w
 

[quote=skinsguy;256728]What about how low Campbell has to squat under center? That has to slow him down even more. He has to go from that position into his back pedal, and then the long wind up to pass the ball. The pass protection has to be perfect to allow that much time from Center - QB exchange to Campbell passing.[/quote]
I noticed that too, and I realize he is tall, but I have never seen tall QBs squatting like they are gonna take a dump.

Re: Not enough protection for Campbell along with Campbell's inexperience=offensive w
 

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Re: Not enough protection for Campbell along with Campbell's inexperience=offensive w
 

[QUOTE=hooskins;256742]I noticed that too, and I realize he is tall, but I have never seen tall QBs squatting like they are gonna take a dump.[/QUOTE]

Doug Williams was tall and never had to squat that low...and he had a similar wind up. I wonder if there is anyway of training Casey to not squat so low or if maybe he is just a short guy to begin with? Brunell had the same problem as well.

Re: Not enough protection for Campbell along with Campbell's inexperience=offensive w
 

[quote=skinsguy;256749]Doug Williams was tall and never had to squat that low...and he had a similar wind up. I wonder if there is anyway of training Casey to not squat so low or if maybe he is just a short guy to begin with? Brunell had the same problem as well.[/quote]
maybe a lower center makes for a better snap/exchange?

Re: Not enough protection for Campbell along with Campbell's inexperience=offensive w
 

I know our coach was always yelling....get ur butt down before you catch a cold...

Re: Not enough protection for Campbell along with Campbell's inexperience=offensive w
 

Cutler has to do the same thing in Denver with Tom Nalen. Nalen also sets up pretty low.

Not sure what you can do about it. Do you really want the center to change his stance? Rabach is on the tall side for a center (6-4), so I'm sure the main reason his stance is low is for leverage purposes.

Re: Not enough protection for Campbell along with Campbell's inexperience=offensive w
 

[QUOTE=hooskins;255796]Another point that most people here seem to miss is that Betts and Sellers seem to whiff their blocks when they are suppose to protect JC. I think JC got pressured even more because Portis was a great blocker, much better than Betts.

The Redskins are nothing without Portis. I still can't believe people want him out of here.[/QUOTE]

That's the point I was gonna make. The last pick Campbell threw, he got layed out by an unblocked linebacker while Betts tried to help on a Coleman (I think) who was already being double teamed. He can't block to save his life. That's why he's not a #1 back, that and he pretty just runs to daylight and then doesn't break enough tackles. He hits the right wholes, makes nice cutbacks, but never really seems like he's anything to fear for a D. I know he ran for 155 and a TD, but he sucked at blocking/picking up the blitz and just didn't really make a lot of meaningful runs after the first quarter.

Re: Not enough protection for Campbell along with Campbell's inexperience=offensive w
 

At the risk of being branded a Redskins heretic, JC is still a project. I hope he develops into a hall of fame quarterback for the Redskins; however, he is not playing well now.

We can list all the excuses for this that might make us feel better, but the bottom line is that we have a novice NFL QB that is not rocking the NFL world right now.

Re: Not enough protection for Campbell along with Campbell's inexperience=offensive w
 

If the ran a couple of screens ATL would of had to calm down on there blitzes. When I say screen passes I'm talking about screens to the RB.

Re: Not enough protection for Campbell along with Campbell's inexperience=offensive w
 

[QUOTE=railcon56;256925]maybe a lower center makes for a better snap/exchange?[/QUOTE]

I don't know, you could be right. Probably makes it better for the Center, but it just seems like it would be harder for a quarterback to drop back as fast as he needs to. Notice how Vick doesn't seem to get nearly as low and has one leg out behind. As soon as the ball is snaped he's in much better position to drop back to pass or to run with it.

Re: Not enough protection for Campbell along with Campbell's inexperience=offensive w
 

Yeah, not sure why we didnt run screens or that quick slant once they started blitzing

Re: Not enough protection for Campbell along with Campbell's inexperience=offensive w
 

[QUOTE=The Zimmermans;256981]Yeah, not sure why we didnt run screens or that quick slant once they started blitzing[/QUOTE]

I know we tried one screen that just looked horrible from the get go, but I think it might have been a screen to Mike Sellers or Cooley and not Betts. I can't remember though.

Re: Not enough protection for Campbell along with Campbell's inexperience=offensive w
 

The playaction was really slowing the development of the plays, and with their all out blitzing scheme, the PA shoulda been thrown out the window in the second half.

Re: Not enough protection for Campbell along with Campbell's inexperience=offensive w
 

[QUOTE=The Zimmermans;256988]The playaction was really slowing the development of the plays, and with their all out blitzing scheme, the PA shoulda been thrown out the window in the second half.[/QUOTE]

Well, I can understand wanting to do more playaction in the second half, seeing as how our running game was killing Atlanta. The problem is, I think with a young quarterback we needed to have kept with the running game a little more.

Re: Not enough protection for Campbell along with Campbell's inexperience=offensive w
 

[QUOTE=The Zimmermans;256988]The playaction was really slowing the development of the plays, and with their all out blitzing scheme, the PA shoulda been thrown out the window in the second half.[/QUOTE]

On the flip side, the only way Campbell will get better at effectively running play action (especially under pressure) is to practice it in live game situations, right?

Re: Not enough protection for Campbell along with Campbell's inexperience=offensive w
 

On a related note, did anyone catch the playaction fake JC gave at one point, I think it was in the 2nd half somewhere. He turned to his right and there was nobody there but he still gave the fake. I just thought it was funny, he obviously got crossed up.

Re: Not enough protection for Campbell along with Campbell's inexperience=offensive w
 

To be honest, I don't think we should have had our young QB throwing 38 passes. We can't complain about the play of Campbell because in reality, he's playing exactly the way I expected him to play, like a rookie. I'm convinced however he's gaining valuable experience, and that's what it's all about.

Re: Not enough protection for Campbell along with Campbell's inexperience=offensive w
 

[quote=skinsguy;257002]Well, I can understand wanting to do more playaction in the second half, seeing as how our running game was killing Atlanta. The problem is, I think with a young quarterback we needed to have kept with the running game a little more.[/quote]

I was saying that we should have STOPPED doing the playaction so much in the second half because the falcons were reading it. That's when we should have tried that quick slant or screen passes.

Re: Not enough protection for Campbell along with Campbell's inexperience=offensive w
 

[quote=Mattyk72;257011]On a related note, did anyone catch the playaction fake JC gave at one point, I think it was in the 2nd half somewhere. He turned to his right and there was nobody there but he still gave the fake. I just thought it was funny, he obviously got crossed up.[/quote]
Yeah I saw that and LOLed. Sorry guys, Im studying for finals right now and it sucks...

Re: Not enough protection for Campbell along with Campbell's inexperience=offensive w
 

[quote=Mattyk72;255700]The lack of good protection is what was most obvious to me. Too often he had guys running at him totally unblocked. That's a tough task for any QB let alone an inexperienced one.[/quote]Our pass blocking has been overrated for years though. Last year, Mark Brunell led the league in QB hurries (this stat was surprising to me), and that was with Portis. This year, Portis has been injured, and was basically a non factor on third downs before heading to IR. Consequently, our pass blocking has been horrible at times this season, merely adequate at others.

The hogs up front have done a great job moving people off the ball in the run game, both this year and last, but as Campbell grows, I think we may have to start moving to a pass oriented blocking scheme, and might want to bring in some different linemen to do it. I'm not sure I'd bring Dock back next year.

Also, when was the last time a lineman held on a run play? It always seems to be a reciever or TE getting called. But in pass protection, we get flags all the time with the front 5.

Re: Not enough protection for Campbell along with Campbell's inexperience=offensive w
 

[quote=hooskins;257197]Yeah I saw that and LOLed. Sorry guys, Im studying for finals right now and it sucks...[/quote]This is the way I study for finals. Little WP action to clear the mind.

Re: Not enough protection for Campbell along with Campbell's inexperience=offensive w
 

[QUOTE=The Zimmermans;257129]I was saying that we should have STOPPED doing the playaction so much in the second half because the falcons were reading it. That's when we should have tried that quick slant or screen passes.[/QUOTE]

Well, I don't see anything wrong with doing playaction at all. After all, whether it is a Gibbs offense or Saunders offense, both use play action quite a bit....so it is something that Campbell has to do in a real game situation. A good screen pass works wonders if it's done right, but can be difficult for an inexperienced QB to master in the NFL.

Re: Not enough protection for Campbell along with Campbell's inexperience=offensive w
 

[quote=GTripp0012;257208]This is the way I study for finals. Little WP action to clear the mind.[/quote]
Wait for college man, finals are insane.