Is this really fair? (Saint's Thomas suspended for 'roids)
 

[url=http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2687451]ESPN.com - NFL - Saints' Thomas slapped with four-game 'roid suspension[/url]

Does anyone else agree with me that this is a stupid ruling by the NFL? For those of you who don't want to read the article I'll sum it up. The Saint's defensive lineman Hollis Thomas failed a steroids test this summer because of asthma medication that he needs to take. The NFL felt that even though doctors say Thomas shouldn't be suspended they have to hold him to the same rules as everyone else.
This will probably be a good thing for the Skins in 2 weeks, and I like that, but still, this really doesn't seem fair to me. Anyone else agree?


Mods- please move this to a different forum if it should be somewhere else

Re: Is this really fair? (Saint's Thomas suspended for 'roids)
 

"According to the doctor, Thomas needs a long acting beta agonist and a short acting beta agonist to control his asthma."

That's good enough for me.

This is very Bogus. Should be done on a case by case basis and not a "rules apply to everyone" policy. I guess they didn't want to open up any loopholes, still seems kind of hearltess, but alas, that's the NFL.

Quick question... If the same thing happened to Peyton Manning, do you think the NFL would have suspended him? I'm no expert, but I don't think they would.

Re: Is this really fair? (Saint's Thomas suspended for 'roids)
 

If the league isn't going to back off in this case, and if Thomas does indeed need steroids to breathe, then his career is essentially over, no?

Re: Is this really fair? (Saint's Thomas suspended for 'roids)
 

[QUOTE=RobH4413;256473]Quick question... If the same thing happened to Peyton Manning, do you think the NFL would have suspended him? I'm no expert, but I don't think they would.[/QUOTE]

That's a really good point. If that were to Manning and they did suspend him ESPN would bitching all over Outside the Lines, First and 10, PTI, Around the Horn, NFL Live, etc, etc, etc about how unfair this is.

But I guess he should have just risked DEATH rather than taking the medication that he needs because he knew it'd get him in trouble.

Re: Is this really fair? (Saint's Thomas suspended for 'roids)
 

That's horse-poo. Did anyone at the league actually look at this case, or did they just see "steroid" and then red stamp it?

Re: Is this really fair? (Saint's Thomas suspended for 'roids)
 

Wow that's total bullhooey.

NFL needs to think about the spirit of the rule. The no-steroids policy is designed to prevent players from taking stuff to get an edge. Hollis Thomas is just taking medicine to keep himself healthy, not get an edge. There's no cheating here.

Re: Is this really fair? (Saint's Thomas suspended for 'roids)
 

The poor guy gets suspended for using Advair, so that he can breathe. It's a shame, but as stated, I guess the NFL doesn't want the floodgates to open. I wonder if it's something they can work on for next season.

Re: Is this really fair? (Saint's Thomas suspended for 'roids)
 

[quote=Schneed10;256481]Wow that's total bullhooey.

NFL needs to think about the spirit of the rule. The no-steroids policy is designed to prevent players from taking stuff to get an edge. Hollis Thomas is just taking medicine to keep himself healthy, not get an edge. There's no cheating here.[/quote]

I guess, technically, breathing is an "angle". I could play in the NFL if I were the only one who could breathe.

Re: Is this really fair? (Saint's Thomas suspended for 'roids)
 

The possibility of having a positive steroid test from inhaled steroids is virtually impossible for a few reasons. I say this as a physician and former asthma researcher.

Firstly, inhaled steroids for asthma have minimal systemic effects due to their absorption at the local level (the lungs) to provide better targeted therapy. Therefore, their detectable blood level is null, unless I suppose you inhaled a tremendous dosage, which in any case would not be a clinically feasible approach to treating asthma.

More importantly, steroids used in asthma treatment are related to a certain hormone, cortisol, and not androgens (like testosterone-another hormone), which are anabolic (muscle building). The steroid testing done in the NFL looks for sources of anabolic steroids and not those steroids used to treat asthma.

And I agree that it will bode well for the Skins' running attack to have him out for this game...

Re: Is this really fair? (Saint's Thomas suspended for 'roids)
 

I've taken Advair. Guess this explains why I'm not in the NFL.

Re: Is this really fair? (Saint's Thomas suspended for 'roids)
 

Did he just start taking the medicine? Wouldn't the league have said something before? I mean, it's not like he's a rookie who just appeared on the scene this year

Re: Is this really fair? (Saint's Thomas suspended for 'roids)
 

[QUOTE=NYCSkin;256497]The possibility of having a positive steroid test from inhaled steroids is virtually impossible for a few reasons. I say this as a physician and former asthma researcher.

Firstly, inhaled steroids for asthma have minimal systemic effects due to their absorption at the local level (the lungs) to provide better targeted therapy. Therefore, their detectable blood level is null, unless I suppose you inhaled a tremendous dosage, which in any case would not be a clinically feasible approach to treating asthma.

More importantly, steroids used in asthma treatment are related to a certain hormone, cortisol, and not androgens (like testosterone-another hormone), which are anabolic (muscle building). The steroid testing done in the NFL looks for sources of anabolic steroids and not those steroids used to treat asthma.

And I agree that it will bode well for the Skins' running attack to have him out for this game...[/QUOTE]

For argument's sake, what if Thomas just happened to use the Advair right before his drug test. Would it be possible that with it being fresh in his system, that it could trigger a false positive in the test?

Re: Is this really fair? (Saint's Thomas suspended for 'roids)
 

[QUOTE=TAFKAS;256499]I've taken Advair. Guess this explains why I'm not in the NFL.[/QUOTE]

Me too! And it explains why I am a 300 pound super athlete who can run a 4.3 40 and jump over the moon... (Actually, I am a skinny "vertically challenged" philosophy professor...but whatever ;) )

Re: Is this really fair? (Saint's Thomas suspended for 'roids)
 

NYCSkin, would you say that the doctor probably stood up for Thomas because he also works for the saints?

Re: Is this really fair? (Saint's Thomas suspended for 'roids)
 

NYC Skin--nice post--good to have some actual knowledge on the board...(not that everyone else isn't just FILLED with knowledge ;))

Question (don't answer if you are worried about liability--seriously): Are there documented long-term risks with Advair? It works great on controlling my asthma, but I am not so happy about putting any sort of steroid in my body for long periods of time. Thanks, and like I said--don't answer if it's a problem. (Am I hijacking this thread?)

Re: Is this really fair? (Saint's Thomas suspended for 'roids)
 

[quote=BDBohnzie;256502]For argument's sake, what if Thomas just happened to use the Advair right before his drug test. Would it be possible that with it being fresh in his system, that it could trigger a false positive in the test?[/quote]
If the NFL was testing for these types of steroids, I believe that only oral asthma steroids would register in a blood test, not Advair or similar inhaled steroids.

Re: Is this really fair? (Saint's Thomas suspended for 'roids)
 

So, it sounds like there are underlying things going on, and both Hollis Thomas and the Saints medical staff are using his asthma to cover up.

Re: Is this really fair? (Saint's Thomas suspended for 'roids)
 

[quote=ArtMonkDrillz;256508]NYCSkin, would you say that the doctor probably stood up for Thomas because he also works for the saints?[/quote]
Probably, but he surely must know his rationale is incorrect. The Saints could be using this for some damage control. Most of these team docs are orthopedic guys but they should still know basic immunology and asthma. If I were the team doc, I would have argued that he took an oral steroid for his asthma and attack the test for having some crossreactivity to these class of steroids. Still farfetched in my mind, but a bit more of a credible argument.

Re: Is this really fair? (Saint's Thomas suspended for 'roids)
 

I'm so confused now, but I'm going to trust NYCSkin over John Clayton. Thanks for clarifying!

Re: Is this really fair? (Saint's Thomas suspended for 'roids)
 

The league has a policy that others have been suspended for even though it was incidental. The doctors, player, team, should have consulted the NFL before they started him on these drugs that they knew had a ban substance. The doctor Amoss also used the word "possibility" which is not 100% and also leaves the door open to other causes for a positive test.

Re: Is this really fair? (Saint's Thomas suspended for 'roids)
 

I heard on Fox Sports Radio the other day that it wasn't the steroids portion of the policy for which he was suspended but the supplement portion. I don't know if he was taking some banned substance or if the asthma meds caused a positive test for some banned supplement... I believe this was originally reported by Jay Glazer.

Re: Is this really fair? (Saint's Thomas suspended for 'roids)
 

If it really was athsma medicine, that is absolutely rediculous. I don't think people even want to know the level of steroid usage in this league, I know I don't. There are hundreds of guys using new and innovative steroid substances that are untestable, and then the league suspends a reputable player for athsma medication........WOW. I think it's a move by the NFL to tell the media that "they are really cracking down on steroids", which is an untrue statement. I know the testing is strict, but companies such as BALCO have always had the money and resources to beat it.

Re: Is this really fair? (Saint's Thomas suspended for 'roids)
 

The NFL takes a pretty hardcore stance on their drug policy and I tend to agree with it. I'm not commenting on this incident specifically, but overall athletes need to be responsible for what is going into their bodies. This crap about "I didn't know what was in that" just doesn't fly. Man up and be responsible for your actions on and off the field.

Re: Is this really fair? (Saint's Thomas suspended for 'roids)
 

There must be something else that is not in this story, like there is another medication that works for these symptoms that does not have a banned steriod? Maybe? I am guessing.
Then again the NFL is really slow to correct rules that have obvious problems. They do not like to admit when they are wrong. Like this crazy roughing the passer rule. It goes too far and it is wrong. However it will take a long time to correct even though most people hate it except the QB's, GM's and certain coaches. I think the teams that have been F-ed by this unfair rule now want it gone.

This steriod exception rule might fall in the same catagory, hard to change due to politics involved.

Re: Is this really fair? (Saint's Thomas suspended for 'roids)
 

[quote=JWsleep;256509]NYC Skin--nice post--good to have some actual knowledge on the board...(not that everyone else isn't just FILLED with knowledge ;))

Question (don't answer if you are worried about liability--seriously): Are there documented long-term risks with Advair? It works great on controlling my asthma, but I am not so happy about putting any sort of steroid in my body for long periods of time. Thanks, and like I said--don't answer if it's a problem. (Am I hijacking this thread?)[/quote]
I'll send you a PM...

Re: Is this really fair? (Saint's Thomas suspended for 'roids)
 

Well, I guess we mods should all let you know that Daseal isn't really leaving the site voluntarily.

We had to suspend him for four games for violating our substance abuse policy. He was [URL="http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=robotripping"]"robotripping"[/URL]

Re: Is this really fair? (Saint's Thomas suspended for 'roids)
 

Haven't we heard many times about contaminated supplements causing a positive drug test (in various sports.) Yet with all these occurrences I can't recall a single instance where a supplement was named, either at the time of the positive test or later. My feeling is that this is a way athletes have found to convert themselves from cheaters to victims. Is there any reason that anyone has heard why none of the "offending" supplements has ever (to the best of my knowledge) been named? (I am running with BleedBurgundy's post above.)

Re: Is this really fair? (Saint's Thomas suspended for 'roids)
 

The steroid component of this story is completely irrelevant. It's the Beta agonist portion of the Advair thats the issue. A Beta agonist stimulates Beta receptors which is also how ephedra works and this is why he got suspended. Ephedra and other "stimulants" are banned substances by the NFL. This has been an issue in track and field as well with guys taking ritalin/adderal for "ADD". These medications provide hyperacuity, and an overall wired feeling. Very similar to the cocaine induced sack attacks of Dexter Manley and LT.

[URL="http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/sports/16171714.htm"]Link[/URL]

Re: Is this really fair? (Saint's Thomas suspended for 'roids)
 

The issue of cross reactivity NYCSkin brought up is definitely an issue but with respect to the stimulant part of advair and the short acting albuterol inhaler thomas took.
There is a definite known cross reactivity in certain test kits between Clenbuterol which they tested for and is considered a drug of abuse and the medication he takes as a rescue medicine for asthma albuterol.

This in my opinion means that either Mr. Thomas needs to get better medical/legal representation or the NFL further confirmed with a more specific test he actually was taking Clenbuterol. I feel it is most likely the former.

Re: Is this really fair? (Saint's Thomas suspended for 'roids)
 

LOL when I 1st saw the "roids" I thought they suspended him for having ....HEMMORIODS... I was gonna say..Hell YES thats fair.... LOL but kinda shitty

Re: Is this really fair? (Saint's Thomas suspended for 'roids)
 

That's really messed up. If it was his asthma medication that caused the positive test he should get a pass. However, gotta respect the stance of the NFL on this one. At least they show the aura of having a zero tolerance policy.