Movin' On Up (The Draft Board)
 

So with the Packers and Zona winning I think we are cracking the top 5 now. So in prep for bowl season, here are four D line players I will be keeping my eyes on:

1. Gaines Adams, Clemson, DE (Music City Bowl, Dec. 29)
2. Amobi Okoye, Louisville, DT (Orange Bowl, Jan. 2)
3. Quinn Pitcock, Ohio St., DT (BCS Championship, Jan. 8)
4. Tim Crowder, Texas, DE (Alamo Bowl, Dec. 30)

Any other players you draftniks propose I keep an eye on?

Granted even if we pick one of these players Grilliams won't play them until week 10 after they have mastered "the system"...

Re: Movin' On Up (The Draft Board)
 

[quote=NYCSkin;258526]So with the Packers and Zona winning I think we are cracking the top 5 now. So in prep for bowl season, here are four D line players I will be keeping my eyes on:

1. Gaines Adams, Clemson, DE (Music City Bowl, Dec. 29)
2. Amobi Okoye, Louisville, DT (Orange Bowl, Jan. 2)
3. Quinn Pitcock, Ohio St., DT (BCS Championship, Jan. 8)
4. Tim Crowder, Texas, DE (Alamo Bowl, Dec. 30)

Any other players you draftniks propose I keep an eye on?

Granted even if we pick one of these players Grilliams won't play them until week 10 after they have mastered "the system"...[/quote]Staying with the defensive line theme, keep an eye on Alan Branch of Michigan. He's a Junior and is no guarentee to come out, but is a monster on the inside at DT.

One other name on the DL. Quentin Mozes of Georgia.

Re: Movin' On Up (The Draft Board)
 

that ILB from Ole Miss...anyone know anything about him? he seemed like hed be a good guy to get if we traded down. im not sold on drafting d-linemen high, they seem more hit and miss than other positions aside from qb

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[QUOTE=Big C;258542]that ILB from Ole Miss...anyone know anything about him? he seemed like hed be a good guy to get if we traded down. im not sold on drafting d-linemen high, they seem more hit and miss than other positions aside from qb[/QUOTE]

Good point. It seems like DL is really deep. I'm not really comfortable using our top pick on DL. If we could trade down we'd still be able to get a starting-quality D lineman, and have more picks later. If we can't trade down, I'd say draft Polzy (don't know the spelling) ... the guy won the Bednarik award two years straight!

Re: Movin' On Up (The Draft Board)
 

[QUOTE=GhettoDogAllStars;258578]Good point. It seems like DL is really deep. I'm not really comfortable using our top pick on DL. If we could trade down we'd still be able to get a starting-quality D lineman, and have more picks later. If we can't trade down, I'd say draft Polzy (don't know the spelling) ... the guy won the Bednarik award two years straight![/QUOTE]

I was thinking the same thing. He'd practically be a steal because he probably should have come out of college last year but he got injured in the fiesta (I think) bowl and decided to stay at Penn State for another year.

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Top 5 right now. Right now i think we are tied for the 4th worst record in the league. How is it decided from there? Worst division %?

Alot hinges on this draft IMO. Defense, defense, defense in the draft. If we end up w/ a top 5 pick and we can trade down a couple spots, get a stud lb, and another early pick to draft dline or secondary, lets do it. The penn state lb looks like a great pick up even though we need pass rushing help. Use free agency to pick up one and draft the other if we have to.

If we have a top 5 pick someone is going to be desparate enough to move up and trade if it makes sense.

Re: Movin' On Up (The Draft Board)
 

[quote=NYCSkin;258526]So with the Packers and Zona winning I think we are cracking the top 5 now. So in prep for bowl season, here are four D line players I will be keeping my eyes on:

1. Gaines Adams, Clemson, DE (Music City Bowl, Dec. 29)
2. Amobi Okoye, Louisville, DT (Orange Bowl, Jan. 2)
3. Quinn Pitcock, Ohio St., DT (BCS Championship, Jan. 8)
4. Tim Crowder, Texas, DE (Alamo Bowl, Dec. 30)

Any other players you draftniks propose I keep an eye on?

Granted even if we pick one of these players Grilliams won't play them until week 10 after they have mastered "the system"...[/quote]


I know he is not a defensive lineman but take alook at Leon Hall - he can actually cover unlike Carlos Rogers

Re: Movin' On Up (The Draft Board)
 

[QUOTE=redsk1;258632]Top 5 right now. Right now i think we are tied for the 4th worst record in the league. How is it decided from there? Worst division %?

Alot hinges on this draft IMO. Defense, defense, defense in the draft. If we end up w/ a top 5 pick and we can trade down a couple spots, get a stud lb, and another early pick to draft dline or secondary, lets do it. The penn state lb looks like a great pick up even though we need pass rushing help. Use free agency to pick up one and draft the other if we have to.

If we have a top 5 pick someone is going to be desparate enough to move up and trade if it makes sense.[/QUOTE]

i think its based on difficulty of schedule. whoever had the easiest schedule gets the higher pick

Re: Movin' On Up (The Draft Board)
 

well...one way or another, we'll get a high pick haha...I agree we should stay away from D linemen too...they never seem to do well when picked high, although having said that I'm sure someone will come up with a long list of D linemen who have done superb, but still I can't think of any...trade, get more picks, fill more holes ...CB, DL, S, maybe LB

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I'd be happy with a stud DE, but I'm also not too sure about taking a DT that high. Linebackers are pretty safe high picks. I would say trade down five to seven spots and get another good pick. The exception might be that Michigan DT if he declares and is still there. He is huge and not in a fatboy kind of way.

Re: Movin' On Up (The Draft Board)
 

top 5 d-linemen recently

courtney brown-flop
mario williams-unconvincing so far
cedric jones- who? 5th pick by giants in 96
dan wilkinson- not worth a #1 overall
darrel russel- good for a while, then imploded
andre wadsworth- bust

dewayne robertson- not sure if he was worth this pick
gerrard warren- bust
justin smith- solid but dont think hes worth this pick

simeon rice-beast
willie mcginist-beast, but really a linebacker
peter boulware- not really a dlinemen, but drafted as one
peppers-beast

i mean, if we get a top 5 pick, i dont really want to grab a d-end. lots of busts, few successes. the successes half have been converted to 3-4 linebackers. i want to trade down if we get a top 5 pick and get a cb, mlb, or dlineman

Re: Movin' On Up (The Draft Board)
 

The GW system places a premium on the kinds of DEs who can defend the run first and foremost. Sacks from DEs are not a big deal. Daniels, Carter, and Wynn are fine DEs in my view.

When GW's system is working well, we have a line that stops the run on first down, putting teams in 2nd and 3rd & longs. Then with a shut down secondary, we're free to blitz LBs from all over the place.

Right now we don't have anything close to a shut-down secondary. We need DBs. CB and SS. Our line is also not great at stopping the run. Carter is improving, and Wynn/Daniels are still effective at it when healthy. And Griffin is still stout. It's the Golston/Salave'a spot that needs an upgrade. When you see film, Golston is always getting blown back. He makes the occasional quick pass rushing play, but he's a tad undersized. And Salave'as legs show too much wear and tear. We need a behemoth at DT.

I'm also OK with a stud LB. I'd rank our needs in this order:

1) DT
2) SS
3) CB
4) LB

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We need the kind of DT that just absolutely cannot be moved. I'm talking some giant Ted Washington/Grady Jackson type guy. Alan Branch from Michigan would be ideal if he comes out this year. Can you say John Henderson prototype?

Stop the run first, get them in second and longs, and then dictate the game by blitzing and relying on your stud secondary.

PS Build a stud secondary.

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I agree about the d-line needs, but if we end up that high, we must trade down IMO. We have too many needs and not enough picks. Plus, as has been pointed out, top five D-line picks are risky business.

(Sad that this is our big topic now...:( )

Re: Movin' On Up (The Draft Board)
 

[quote=JWsleep;258879]I agree about the d-line needs, but if we end up that high, we must trade down IMO. We have too many needs and not enough picks. Plus, as has been pointed out, top five D-line picks are risky business.

(Sad that this is our big topic now...:( )[/quote]

Yeah you're right. We need CB, SS, DT, and to some extent LB. More picks would be helpful. Trading down would be my top preference.

Re: Movin' On Up (The Draft Board)
 

i agree about needing run stopping d-ends first and foremost. stopping the run is the key in the GW system. from what ive read the top DE prospects arent the best run-stoppers so i dont know if theyd fit well here

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I want to trade down as well, but I have a bad feeling about it. I don't think trading down is easy to do, and I could see us using our pick because there aren't any teams willing to trade. Hopefully I'm wrong.

Re: Movin' On Up (The Draft Board)
 

[quote=JWsleep;258879]I agree about the d-line needs, but if we end up that high, we must trade down IMO. We have too many needs and not enough picks. Plus, as has been pointed out, top five D-line picks are risky business.

Stole my thunder! good post. TOO many holes.............trade down

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I'm all about Justin Smith myself if we're going to make a FA signing. He wouldn't command a huge amount of money.

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[QUOTE=TheMalcolmConnection;258904]I'm all about Justin Smith myself if we're going to make a FA signing. He wouldn't command a huge amount of money.[/QUOTE]

i would rather adress dline through free agency. smith would probably be a good fit, isnt he good against the run?

id rather hit the draft for secondary needs or linebackers

Re: Movin' On Up (The Draft Board)
 

[QUOTE=GhettoDogAllStars;258901]I want to trade down as well, but I have a bad feeling about it. I don't think trading down is easy to do, and I could see us using our pick because there aren't any teams willing to trade. Hopefully I'm wrong.[/QUOTE]

this is a deep draft i think this year, so i think there would be plenty of teams trying to move up, of course depending on the pick we get.

brady quinn, calvin johnson, adrian peterson, gaines adams, jamarcus russel, leon hall, etc. really good draft year i believe

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Yup, that's why I suggested him. :D

If we get a DE through FA, where do we go with our first round pick? I'm still all about trading it down to the second round and picking up some project LBs.

Re: Movin' On Up (The Draft Board)
 

[QUOTE=TheMalcolmConnection;258907]Yup, that's why I suggested him. :D

If we get a DE through FA, where do we go with our first round pick? I'm still all about trading it down to the second round and picking up some project LBs.[/QUOTE]

yeah some of us have been discussing this in the Xavier Adibi thread. id be interested in trading down and grabbing a secondary guy, or Willis if he is there (MLB Ole Miss), and maybe getting a guy like adibi in the 2nd or 3rd round

Re: Movin' On Up (The Draft Board)
 

[quote=TheMalcolmConnection;258907]Yup, that's why I suggested him. :D

If we get a DE through FA, where do we go with our first round pick? I'm still all about trading it down to the second round and picking up some project LBs.[/quote]
Just what we need, another project after sitting McIntosh on the bench this whole season. That additional 2nd round pick we traded to get him is getting higher with each loss.

Re: Movin' On Up (The Draft Board)
 

[QUOTE=TheMalcolmConnection;258904]I'm all about Justin Smith myself if we're going to make a FA signing. He wouldn't command a huge amount of money.[/QUOTE]

Riding shotgun on my Justin Smith bandwagon I see ;)

(by the way, what's up with Tweener? Jeez!)

Ok, back on topic. I like the idea of trading down

Re: Movin' On Up (The Draft Board)
 

Yes, after looking at prospects other than Freeney, and actually watching a Bengals game, I was hooked. I love the generic name, I cannot lie.

So what's your name? "Uhh...uh...Jus...tin...Smith?"

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If we do decide to draft a linebacker with our number one pick I would like to see us get Buster Davis MLB for Florida State. He is alittle undersized at 5'10 240lbs but he can stuff the run, and he is also a good pass rusher from his MLB position.

Re: Movin' On Up (The Draft Board)
 

Ideally I would love to trade down also, but we have got to be realistic, who would want to trade up? How many trades were there involving anyone in the top 10 last draft? And how many of those teams would have benifitted from trading down? If I can recall, the Giants and Steelers switched spots (it was like the 32 for somewhere in the mid 20's.) And the Broncos traded somewhere in the mid teens for the 11th(I think) pick. I don't have enough college knowlege to know how good any of these guys are, but are there any teams that need one of these players bad enough to trade up?

Re: Movin' On Up (The Draft Board)
 

[QUOTE=BeastsoftheNFCeast;259117]Ideally I would love to trade down also, but we have got to be realistic, who would want to trade up? How many trades were there involving anyone in the top 10 last draft? And how many of those teams would have benifitted from trading down? If I can recall, the Giants and Steelers switched spots (it was like the 32 for somewhere in the mid 20's.) And the Broncos traded somewhere in the mid teens for the 11th(I think) pick. I don't have enough college knowlege to know how good any of these guys are, but are there any teams that need one of these players bad enough to trade up?[/QUOTE]

this is the strongest draft class in years

Re: Movin' On Up (The Draft Board)
 

i think we go for a corner. carlos Rodgers isnt doing it, and springs is getting older. I think we are good a DT.

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rogers is improving, he will be a solid cb in this league

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[quote=Big C;259129]rogers is improving, he will be a solid cb in this league[/quote]
I agree, I think he'll eventually become a #1 corner. He's physical, he's fast, he's smart.

All the calls for his head probably are ignorant. A large number of fans were judging the guy (playing fantastic as of late) who was put in a terrible situation. I haven't broken his play down, if I had more time I would love too, but generally speaking you can't call a guy terrible because he doesn't shut down the teams #1 receiver in a terrible defense.

Albeit, he may not be a #1 corner now, but nevertheless he's got the potential. If your looking to the draft to make the defense better, then a cb as a first rounder may not be the best bet.

I would probably draft a stud cover-safety to back-up sean taylor. I don't know how good the safties are in the up-coming draft, but I'd love to be enlightened if anyone has a good idea.

Needless to say, we need DB depth. It's killed us the past two years, and we better learn our lesson.

Re: Movin' On Up (The Draft Board)
 

[quote=Schneed10;258868]The GW system places a premium on the kinds of DEs who can defend the run first and foremost. Sacks from DEs are not a big deal. Daniels, Carter, and Wynn are fine DEs in my view.

When GW's system is working well, we have a line that stops the run on first down, putting teams in 2nd and 3rd & longs. Then with a shut down secondary, we're free to blitz LBs from all over the place.

Right now we don't have anything close to a shut-down secondary. We need DBs. CB and SS. Our line is also not great at stopping the run. Carter is improving, and Wynn/Daniels are still effective at it when healthy. And Griffin is still stout. It's the Golston/Salave'a spot that needs an upgrade. When you see film, Golston is always getting blown back. He makes the occasional quick pass rushing play, but he's a tad undersized. And Salave'as legs show too much wear and tear. We need a behemoth at DT.

I'm also OK with a stud LB. I'd rank our needs in this order:

1) DT
2) SS
3) CB
4) LB[/quote]I like the DE's that can anchor the run philosophy, but with Daniels and Wynn over the hill to say the least, it's a position that needs to be addressed. Not necessarily in the first round because that's when the premium pass rushers go, but we do need to draft an anchoring defensive end.

I'd agree with your list of needs, but we need a DE also at some point. If we need an LB, it has to be an MLB. With Marcus, Lemar, and Rocky, we have a glut of guys who are best outside, but struggle with parts of the game that a MLB has to be good at.

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[quote=RobH4413;259134]I agree, I think he'll eventually become a #1 corner. He's physical, he's fast, he's smart.

All the calls for his head probably are ignorant. A large number of fans were judging the guy (playing fantastic as of late) who was put in a terrible situation. I haven't broken his play down, if I had more time I would love too, but generally speaking you can't call a guy terrible because he doesn't shut down the teams #1 receiver in a terrible defense.

Albeit, he may not be a #1 corner now, but nevertheless he's got the potential. If your looking to the draft to make the defense better, then a cb as a first rounder may not be the best bet.

I would probably draft a stud cover-safety to back-up sean taylor. I don't know how good the safties are in the up-coming draft, but I'd love to be enlightened if anyone has a good idea.

Needless to say, we need DB depth. It's killed us the past two years, and we better learn our lesson.[/quote]He seems like a career #2. He can shut down the oppositions second reciever with fair consistency and he plays the run very, very well. We just need to pair him with a CB who can shutdown a team's #1.

I think we have plenty of capable DBs as is, but what we lack is QUALITY corner depth. I think Springs is still good enough to be the #1 corner, but we have to decide whether or not he can be trusted to stay healty. If he can't it's going to be costly to bring in another shutdown corner like a Nate Clements, and we may have to spend our first round pick there.

If we have to, I suggest a defense that plays with 3 CBs and 1 safety. Since our CBs are so good at tackling, we could keep a third corner up on the tight end to take that option away. I think ST is good enough to play sideline to sideline if we need to go man.

I really don't want to have to invest that much money or a high pick in a CB if we think we can get away with Springs for one more season (i.e. his injures arent chronic). I know its risky to rely on his health one more year when we got burned bad this year, but risks have to be taken if we want to turn this around in one season.

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I dont think that they can put the Franchise Tag on Clements 2 years in a row. Also I think Rogers is going to be a quality 1st string corner in a few years. Name one 2nd year 1st string corner, thats right, you cant. Just give him time.

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[QUOTE=BeastsoftheNFCeast;259170]Name one 2nd year 1st string corner, thats right, you cant. Just give him time.[/QUOTE]

This is like the second post you've said this in, to which I shall respond:

1. Darrell Green
2. Deion Sanders
3. Charles Woodson
4. Fred Smoot
5. Champ Bailey
6. DeAngelo Hall
7. Pac Man Jones
8. Patrick Surtain
9. Sam Madison
10. Nate Clements

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OH YEA??? You can't name 11.................can you???

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[QUOTE=Hog1;259183]OH YEA??? You can't name 11.................can you???[/QUOTE]

Shawn Springs....What!

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[quote=Big C;258909]yeah some of us have been discussing this in the Xavier Adibi thread. id be interested in trading down and grabbing a secondary guy, or Willis if he is there (MLB Ole Miss), and maybe getting a guy like adibi in the 2nd or 3rd round[/quote]

Adibi's coming out this year? Say it ain't so!!

Re: Movin' On Up (The Draft Board)
 

[quote=TAFKAS;259184]Shawn Springs....What![/quote]

DAMMIT!