If we keep the same structure, we MUST go after DBs
 

Ok, Ive led the charge against the current make up of the front office many many times and I don't want to aruge about that anymore. IF we keep the current structure of no GM and Williams calling the shots on defense, then we MUST use our draft pick to get the best DB on the board AND go after the best DB in free agency. Williams D depends upon good solid DB play. Right now we have an aging Springs and Carlos who is a No. 2 corner on his very best day. Soooo, given that we have multiple weapons on offense, we must use the first round pick on a DB and go after the Buffalo kid in free agency.

Re: If we keep the same structure, we MUST go after DBs
 

I think you have to start with getting horses up front. That can help solve some of the problems in the secondary. Yes we do need a cb but the front 7 is just not very good. You have to start with someone who can help stop the run and get pressure on the passer first. That's where it all starts. If we get a good corner or two then that still does not fix things up front.

Re: If we keep the same structure, we MUST go after DBs
 

But Williams has led successful Defenses with little up front before. What his scheme cannot do is survive without a great secondary. Springs, given his cap number, may very well be gone next year, thus we must have DBs if we keep the current system.

Re: If we keep the same structure, we MUST go after DBs
 

[quote=skinsfan69;263718]I think you have to start with getting horses up front. That can help solve some of the problems in the secondary. Yes we do need a cb but the front 7 is just not very good. You have to start with someone who can help stop the run and get pressure on the passer first. That's where it all starts. If we get a good corner or two then that still does not fix things up front.[/quote]
Thank you! Somebody gets it. Without a dominating pass rusher, the secondary will still get picked apart by opposing QBs! Remember, the offense knows where it's going. The D line simply can't allow QBs all day long to sit in the pocket! Even the great corners can't cover for long periods of time! Draft Lamar Woodley from Michigan!

Re: If we keep the same structure, we MUST go after DBs
 

[quote=paulskinsfan;263721]But Williams has led successful Defenses with little up front before. What his scheme cannot do is survive without a great secondary. Springs, given his cap number, may very well be gone next year, thus we must have DBs if we keep the current system.[/quote]

I would compare this to getting a bunch of guards in basketball and trying to win with little guys. Kind of like how the Wizards are structured. Williams likes the corners so he can blitz alot. But all the trickeration only works to a certain point. NFL coaches are not stupid and it seems teams have adjusted to all the blitzing. At some point you have to rush with 4 or 5 guys and get pressure that way instead of leaving corners on an island all the time. We simply can not go into next season with Holdman, Daniels and Goldston as starters. Plus Marshall is simply not an NFL MLB at 225lb. In the NFL you win in the trenches. No O-line and no D-line and you have nothing.

Re: If we keep the same structure, we MUST go after DBs
 

[quote=Crat92;263722]Thank you! Somebody gets it. Without a dominating pass rusher, the secondary will still get picked apart by opposing QBs! Remember, the offense knows where it's going. The D line simply can't allow QBs all day long to sit in the pocket! Even the great corners can't cover for long periods of time! Draft Lamar Woodley from Michigan![/quote]


What about taking Alan Branch instead? I don't follow Michigan football to closely - could you provide insight on this?

Re: If we keep the same structure, we MUST go after DBs
 

I think there are a lot of different ways this team could go in the offseason, with none of them being the wrong way. we need help in pretty much every part of the defense. D line, LB and CB. So whether they draft one and sign a FA they will need to address all 3 areas.

Re: If we keep the same structure, we MUST go after DBs
 

[QUOTE=paulskinsfan;263712]Ok, Ive led the charge against the current make up of the front office many many times and I don't want to aruge about that anymore. IF we keep the current structure of no GM and Williams calling the shots on defense, then we MUST use our draft pick to get the best DB on the board AND go after the best DB in free agency. Williams D depends upon good solid DB play. Right now we have an aging Springs and Carlos who is a No. 2 corner on his very best day. Soooo, given that we have multiple weapons on offense, we must use the first round pick on a DB and go after the Buffalo kid in free agency.[/QUOTE]

100% agree!!!
A lot of people think we need d-line help...the truth is, our 4 man rush vs their 5 man + rb protection isn't going to go anywhere...no matter who we had. Carter is a good DE but he gets doubled very often. We could most certainly use more depth at the Dline, but who we have is not all bad. We need CB's something fierce, and we need a LB core that can actually play the pass and blitz. Something we have not had all season.

Re: If we keep the same structure, we MUST go after DBs
 

Face it, we have Sean Taylor and 10 traffic cones on defense. Any pick up is good. Did we really pass on Shawn Merriman for Carlos Rogers? That is quickly turning into one of the worst picks since Westbrook.

Re: If we keep the same structure, we MUST go after DBs
 

[quote=jhold4th;263782]Face it, we have Sean Taylor and 10 traffic cones on defense. Any pick up is good. Did we really pass on Shawn Merriman for Carlos Rogers? That is quickly turning into one of the worst picks since Westbrook.[/quote]


Agreed. Rogers does not appear to be improving, and it may sson be time lump him in with Shuler, Westbrook, etc. His progress has totally flatlined almost since day one.

I'm not totally sold on Taylor either. He makes a lot of big hits but gets caught out of postion a lot, too. I'm not ready to give up on him by a long shot, but I think he's he's a liability a lot more often than most people are willing to admit.

Re: If we keep the same structure, we MUST go after DBs
 

the game is won in the trenches, all our db's caught out of position is usually after the opposing qb has 10 seconds to throw. pass rush eliminates alot of double moves for wr's and also stops 5 and 7 step drops for qb's to pick apart secondaries. i love the alan branch theory if we can get him or if he goes pro. but we could also use another DE like gaines adams from clemson. carter and adams could be an elite force and single up griffin and our other DT that we should look for late in the draft.

Re: If we keep the same structure, we MUST go after DBs
 

[QUOTE=jrocx69;263796]the game is won in the trenches, all our db's caught out of position is usually after the opposing qb has 10 seconds to throw. pass rush eliminates alot of double moves for wr's and also stops 5 and 7 step drops for qb's to pick apart secondaries. i love the alan branch theory if we can get him or if he goes pro. but we could also use another DE like gaines adams from clemson. carter and adams could be an elite force and single up griffin and our other DT that we should look for late in the draft.[/QUOTE]

This is correct! I will say that we do definitely need to build upon our secondary, that is quite obvious, but we do need not only a better pass rush, but a consistent one. Building a system that has obvious weak points is never the answer nor should it ever be. Gregg Williams has had success (for the most part) because he's been good with scheming his defense, but once the offenses figure out the schemes (like they have appeared to do this year) then your weaknesses are exposed and you allow teams to come back on you -- teams that we should've put away early.

Re: If we keep the same structure, we MUST go after DBs
 

Greg Williams system is based upon pressure, usually coming from angles that are blitzing. we need good, solid secondary play to support his defense.

Re: If we keep the same structure, we MUST go after DBs
 

Can we sign Clements and my man Justin Smith?

Re: If we keep the same structure, we MUST go after DBs
 

who is justin smith?

Re: If we keep the same structure, we MUST go after DBs
 

[quote=jrocx69;263796]the game is won in the trenches, all our db's caught out of position is usually after the opposing qb has 10 seconds to throw. pass rush eliminates alot of double moves for wr's and also stops 5 and 7 step drops for qb's to pick apart secondaries. i love the alan branch theory if we can get him or if he goes pro. but we could also use another DE like gaines adams from clemson. carter and adams could be an elite force and single up griffin and our other DT that we should look for late in the draft.[/quote]

I want Gaines Adams.

Re: If we keep the same structure, we MUST go after DBs
 

[QUOTE=dmek25;263816]who is justin smith?[/QUOTE]

[url=http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/235243]NFL.com - Justin Smith[/url]

Re: If we keep the same structure, we MUST go after DBs
 

If we don't change the structure we still need to go after DB's. More consistent coverage will take us far.

Re: If we keep the same structure, we MUST go after DBs
 

[quote=dmek25;263812]Greg Williams system is based upon pressure, usually coming from angles that are blitzing. we need good, solid secondary play to support his defense.[/quote]
GW's Defense was more effective when he had a dominating pass rush(Titans:J Kearse, K Carter etc). Blitzing is more effective when it is used to enhance a great pass rush, not to make up for the lack there of. Again, with no pressure, QB's have all day to throw! I don't care who's back there, they only can cover for so long! Remember, the WRs know where they are going! A pass rush can disrupt the timing.

Re: If we keep the same structure, we MUST go after DBs
 

[quote=jhold4th;263782]Face it, we have Sean Taylor and 10 traffic cones on defense. Any pick up is good. [/quote]

lol - well said! we have a few good players littered throughout the D, but it does feel like that sometimes.

Re: If we keep the same structure, we MUST go after DBs
 

We need more team speed.
McIntosh starting should help next year(yes I am assuming he will start) with our Linebacker speed. We should also look at replacing marshall with a Young Late round pick with great speed.


Carter has played decent last couple of weeks.
We need someone to matchup with him and Griffin on the line. The hard part is, drafting a DE that is worthy of a top 5 pick, Very few are.
Kearse and Peppers are the only two worth top 5 picks.
We need reserve undersized DE that can run like linebackers. Maybe Getting Chris Clemons back from injury or get another super fast guy like him to get pressure.

Our defence is based on forcing bad throws. If we dont get pressure, teams will have all day to pick apart our cover 2.

Re: If we keep the same structure, we MUST go after DBs
 

Williams' system all starts with the DBs, I think Clements will be one of the first pickups of the offseason.

Re: If we keep the same structure, we MUST go after DBs
 

[quote=Mattyk72;263870]Williams' system all starts with the DBs, I think Clements will be one of the first pickups of the offseason.[/quote]Getting Prioleau back should give us a solid option at safety.

Re: If we keep the same structure, we MUST go after DBs
 

[quote=GTripp0012;263871]Getting Prioleau back should give us a solid option at safety.[/quote]

That's a start but we need a lot more help. We basically need to revamp the secondary.

Re: If we keep the same structure, we MUST go after DBs
 

[QUOTE=GTripp0012;263871]Getting Prioleau back should give us a solid option at safety.[/QUOTE]

Wow, I think you think a little too highly of him.

Re: If we keep the same structure, we MUST go after DBs
 

If you watch the games, you can see what offenses have done to beat the skins. They max protect, and then wait for a secondary assignment to break down. If that happens, they hit the long receiver, otherwise, they force one in to the whoever is being covered by an LB. Marshall and Holdman are not playing good coverage lately and Marcus Washington is dropping balls he should intercept. We need DB's, but we also need a LB. Offenses feared Arrington and that helped us, weather Williams admits it or not.

Re: If we keep the same structure, we MUST go after DBs
 

[QUOTE=GTripp0012;263871]Getting Prioleau back should give us a solid option at safety.[/QUOTE]

It definitely will not hurt us getting Prioleau back, but he won't be an instant fix.

Re: If we keep the same structure, we MUST go after DBs
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;263870]Williams' system all starts with the DBs, I think Clements will be one of the first pickups of the offseason.[/QUOTE]

williams system starts with pass rush. otherwise we sit back and play zone and get picked apart. once again, if the pass rush is there, we have corners that can play. im not saying we dont need corners, but games are always won in the trenches... period. nobody's defense starts backwards no matter the scheme

Re: If we keep the same structure, we MUST go after DBs
 

[quote=jrocx69;264051]williams system starts with pass rush. otherwise we sit back and play zone and get picked apart. once again, if the pass rush is there, we have corners that can play. im not saying we dont need corners, but games are always won in the trenches... period. nobody's defense starts backwards no matter the scheme[/quote]

The past two years he's done just fine with average DEs. His system clearly starts with the DBs and works it's way forward. With the breakdowns and injuries this year he's been forced to play more zones, lay off the pressure, and as a result we've seen more big plays than ever.

His system works when you have guys that can man up in the secondary and he can bring heat from anywhere on the field.

Re: If we keep the same structure, we MUST go after DBs
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;264052]The past two years he's done just fine with average DEs. His system clearly starts with the DBs and works it's way forward. With the breakdowns and injuries this year he's been forced to play more zones, lay off the pressure, and as a result we've seen more big plays than ever.

His system works when you have guys that can man up in the secondary and he can bring heat from anywhere on the field.[/QUOTE]

cant have heat if no one is there. and when no heat is there any CB will be burned. you seen that this year with the eagles. sheppard and brown have been exposed when the pass rush is weak. but when the pass rush comes they look like pro bowlers. stop the run and hurry the QB.

Re: If we keep the same structure, we MUST go after DBs
 

Our play on defense this season has without a doubt revealed our weaknesses. It's plain to see we need help at CB and safety, but it all starts up front. We need "beast to feast".

Re: If we keep the same structure, we MUST go after DBs
 

I say use the number one on a pass rusher, the rest of the picks on best available defenders (since there are holes everywhere) and sign Clements. What else do they need?