Shawn Springs Placed on injured reserve, Mike Rumph Released
 

[url=http://www.redskins.com/news/newsDetail.jsp?id=23870]Springs to IR; Rumph Released[/url]

Interesting tidbit:

"Springs' future with the team could be serving in a different role next season. Head coach Joe Gibbs indicated that he could play some safety next season. It's a position that Springs has said that he would be open to playing."

What does this say for Rumph's value now? Not being able to play on one of the NFL's worst pass defenses? Wow. Was that ever a miscalculation of a first round pick.

Re: Springs Placed on IR, Rumph Released
 

[quote=Beemnseven;264066][URL="http://www.redskins.com/news/newsDetail.jsp?id=23870"]Springs to IR; Rumph Released[/URL]

Interesting tidbit:

"Springs' future with the team could be serving in a different role next season. Head coach Joe Gibbs indicated that he could play some safety next season. It's a position that Springs has said that he would be open to playing."

What does this say for Rumph's value now? Not being able to play on one of the NFL's worst pass defenses? Wow. Was that ever a miscalculation of a first round pick.[/quote]

Kudos to the members of this board who anticipated a potential Springs move to safety. It's not far fetched - GW has always liked corners and safeties to be versatile and somewhat interchangeable. After all, he moved Troy Vincent from corner to safety in Buffalo several years ago - before Vincent grew ancient.

The Warpath community, once again, proves to be the most knowledgable of all Redskin fan sites.

I think the indication that Springs could move to S increases the chances that the club gets all up on Nate Clements.

Re: Springs Placed on IR, Rumph Released
 

Why don't we just save ourselves a lot of time and anguish and just put Springs on the IR for next season now, while we're at it. Seriously, someone's just going to sneeze in his general vicinity next season and cause him to suffer a season-ending cerebral hemmorhage or something.

I'm going all Sam Jackson in "Unbreakable" and hereby dubbing Springs "Mr. Glass".

Re: Springs Placed on IR, Rumph Released
 

[quote=dgack;264084]Why don't we just save ourselves a lot of time and anguish and just put Springs on the IR for next season now, while we're at it. Seriously, someone's just going to sneeze in his general vicinity next season and cause him to suffer a season-ending cerebral hemmorhage or something.

I'm going all Sam Jackson in "Unbreakable" and hereby dubbing Springs "Mr. Glass".[/quote]

I don't think that's being fair. Here's his games played history:

1997: 10
1998: 16
1999: 16
2000: 16
2001: 8
2002: 15
2003: 12
2004: 8
2005: 15
2006: 9

He's never missed anything more than a half a season, and those times were rare. Most of his seasons, including 2005 for us, were long and successful.

He is getting older, that's for sure. Which is why moving him to safety makes a lot of sense from a health standpoint. The groin issue cleared up this year, once they treated it properly with the surgery. And I don't see how you can call a guy "Mr. Glass" for breaking a shoulder blade. Do you know how much of a freak thing that is?

I think he's been a tough player for us, and I like him to come back strong next year and be an effective CB/S for us.

Re: Springs Placed on IR, Rumph Released
 

I'm engaging in a little hyperbole, of course, but no more than those who call Betts a fumble machine.

Just FYI, though, those numbers are not as great as you'd like to think. Over his 10-year career, he averages 12.5 games played a season. You don't have too many starting NFL corners who have that kind of injury proclivity. I just did some rudimentary sifting on Yahoo and couldn't find any "big name" CB's who have that kind of injury record. I mean, think about what you're saying here -- he's had one full season in the last 4 years. Two in the last six years (and I'm counting 15 game seasons as "full" here). If you want to get technical, he hasn't played a complete season since 2000 (!).

CB's should be among the most durable and resilient guys on your team, shouldn't they? Other than ligament tears, you just don't hear of too many injuries to corners. Certainly not all the crazy, improbable stuff that Springs seems to be a magnet for.

He's obviously very needed around here and unquestionably still has talent, but tough is not a word I would use to describe the guy.

Re: Springs Placed on IR, Rumph Released
 

[quote=dgack;264089]I'm engaging in a little hyperbole, of course, but no more than those who call Betts a fumble machine.

Just FYI, though, those numbers are not as great as you'd like to think. Over his 10-year career, he averages 12.5 games played a season. You don't have too many starting NFL corners who have that kind of injury proclivity. I just did some rudimentary sifting on Yahoo and couldn't find any "big name" CB's who have that kind of injury record. I mean, think about what you're saying here -- he's had one full season in the last 4 years. Two in the last six years (and I'm counting 15 game seasons as "full" here). If you want to get technical, he hasn't played a complete season since 2000 (!).

CB's should be among the most durable and resilient guys on your team, shouldn't they? Other than ligament tears, you just don't hear of too many injuries to corners. Certainly not all the crazy, improbable stuff that Springs seems to be a magnet for.

He's obviously very needed around here and unquestionably still has talent, but tough is not a word I would use to describe the guy.[/quote]


Dude, reading your posts is like watching old people getting busy.

Are you Rexi?

Re: Springs Placed on IR, Rumph Released
 

I really like hearing that the coaching staff is considering moving Springs to safety, I think that's a great call and a strong indicator that Springs will be back... just not as the starting corner. I heard Nate Clements is already house shopping in the area.

Re: Springs Placed on IR, Rumph Released
 

[quote=Grim21Reaper;264099]Dude, reading your posts is like watching old people getting busy.

Are you Rexi?[/quote]

Yawn. Wake me up when you've got anything new.

Re: Springs Placed on IR, Rumph Released
 

[quote=dgack;264106]Yawn. Wake me up when you've got anything new.[/quote]

Likewise.

By the way, Betts lost that game.

Re: Springs Placed on IR, Rumph Released
 

[quote=Grim21Reaper;264109]Likewise.

By the way, Betts lost that game.[/quote]

Whatever dukes, I'm all for rational debate, but I could care less if you want to believe something different. I'm not terribly interested in trading barbs with you, so like I said, zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Re: Springs Placed on IR, Rumph Released
 

[quote=Mattyk72;264100] I heard Nate Clements is already house shopping in the area.[/quote]

Really? I hadnt heard that. I wonder how much we are going to give him. I have to admit I am a little concerned about our cap this year.

Re: Springs Placed on IR, Rumph Released
 

can someone explain to me why the skins want springs to play safety? he is easily our best corner, and most people around here think that carlos rogers has regressed, so why would you want to go into next season needing 2 corners? one good quality corner is hard enough to come by. i would try to get michael lewis from the eagles, good safety for some reason the eagles are really down on him

Re: Springs Placed on IR, Rumph Released
 

Springs already has the cover ability and is a decent tackler, it makes him an ideal safety. Think among the lines of Troy Vincent and Rod Woodson. Moving to Safety extended both careers. And it seems that Nate Clements is on his way here...since Matty's spies saw him looking at houses in the area.

Guess this means AA will continue to be the highest paid special teamer in NFL history.

Re: Springs Placed on IR, Rumph Released
 

[QUOTE=Beemnseven;264066] Was that ever a miscalculation of a first round pick.[/QUOTE]

What first rounder?

Re: Springs Placed on IR, Rumph Released
 

[quote=dmek25;264141]can someone explain to me why the skins want springs to play safety? he is easily our best corner, and most people around here think that carlos rogers has regressed, so why would you want to go into next season needing 2 corners? one good quality corner is hard enough to come by. i would try to get michael lewis from the eagles, good safety for some reason the eagles are really down on him[/quote]

Moving him to safety doesn't mean he won't be matched up 1 on 1 w/wr's a lot. It will just give GW flexibility w/his packages. I agree w/those here who said that this is an indication that Clements could be inked in march.
Props to those that predicted Springs at safety!

Re: Springs Placed on IR, Rumph Released
 

[quote=FRPLG;264151]What first rounder?[/quote]

Not ours, the 49ers

Re: Springs Placed on IR, Rumph Released
 

gotcha.

Re: Springs Placed on IR, Rumph Released
 

i am not arguing that springs can play safety. but are people comfortable enough with Carlos Rogers as the #2 corner? and Wright as the nickle?

Re: Springs Placed on IR, Rumph Released
 

I think so, based on what Gibbs said about their plans to evaluate every position this offseason. I think upon further review he'll realize that the secondary needs a lot of work. There should be much better communication between the safeties and corners. I see an early (should be one of the first), more disciplined, hot and nasty pre-season camp in 2007. Anyone who shows up not willing to put in the extra work will take example from AA, you won't play regardless of your salary.

Re: Springs Placed on IR, Rumph Released
 

[quote=dmek25;264168]i am not arguing that springs can play safety. but are people comfortable enough with Carlos Rogers as the #2 corner? and Wright as the nickle?[/quote]
I think that in those packages we wouldn't have to put Springs at safety. Assuming we pick up Clements, we could have Vincent and Taylor at Safety, while Springs, Clements, and Rodgers play corner. I think that having Springs at safety will help prevent the deep ball, and hopefully Carlos Rodgers can pick up his play and make a decent number two corner next year. I think that in general Springs is a good player for us, remember how he D'd up Steve Smith in the Carolina game. The only thing that scares me is that he's getting a little old, so that's why having him a safety seems like a good idea to me. Also, I hope next year that Springs and Vincent can assume the roles of the leaders on defense. We need veterans with that kind of experience to direct the defense, especially the secondary.

Re: Springs Placed on IR, Rumph Released
 

[quote=dgack;264089]I'm engaging in a little hyperbole, of course, but no more than those who call Betts a fumble machine.

Just FYI, though, those numbers are not as great as you'd like to think. Over his 10-year career, he averages 12.5 games played a season. You don't have too many starting NFL corners who have that kind of injury proclivity. I just did some rudimentary sifting on Yahoo and couldn't find any "big name" CB's who have that kind of injury record. I mean, think about what you're saying here -- he's had one full season in the last 4 years. Two in the last six years (and I'm counting 15 game seasons as "full" here). If you want to get technical, he hasn't played a complete season since 2000 (!).

CB's should be among the most durable and resilient guys on your team, shouldn't they? Other than ligament tears, you just don't hear of too many injuries to corners. Certainly not all the crazy, improbable stuff that Springs seems to be a magnet for.

He's obviously very needed around here and unquestionably still has talent, but tough is not a word I would use to describe the guy.[/quote]

Fair enough, he does get his share of injuries. I just take issue with those who equate Springs to the likes of Fragile Freddy Taylor. Not that you were doing so, I just wanted to throw the facts out there on Springs. I would agree, he's not the most durable guy in the world. But I wouldn't call him injury prone either.

Re: Springs Placed on IR, Rumph Released
 

[quote=dmek25;264141]can someone explain to me why the skins want springs to play safety? he is easily our best corner, and most people around here think that carlos rogers has regressed, so why would you want to go into next season needing 2 corners? one good quality corner is hard enough to come by. i would try to get michael lewis from the eagles, good safety for some reason the eagles are really down on him[/quote]
Good point Dmek . I would be concerned about the additional tackling he would be asked to do , wouldn't a move to S match him up with Fb's & TE's blocking him opposed to a WR ? If he moves to free safety , does Taylor move to SS ?

Re: Springs Placed on IR, Rumph Released
 

[QUOTE=budw38;264184]Good point Dmek . I would be concerned about the additional tackling he would be asked to do , wouldn't a move to S match him up with Fb's & TE's blocking him opposed to a WR ? If he moves to free safety , does Taylor move to SS ?[/QUOTE]

That was my concern as well. One would think there's more of an injury risk at safety than there is a corner.

Re: Springs Placed on IR, Rumph Released
 

[quote=724Skinsfan;264175]I think so, based on what Gibbs said about their plans to evaluate every position this offseason. I think upon further review he'll realize that the secondary needs a lot of work. [B]There should be much better communication between the safeties and corners[/B]. I see an early (should be one of the first), more disciplined, hot and nasty pre-season camp in 2007. Anyone who shows up not willing to put in the extra work will take example from AA, you won't play regardless of your salary.[/quote]


Part of this should include firing safeties coach Steve Jackson and making Jerry Gray coach of the complete secondary - get rid of the split coaching in the backfield and I bet you the communication improves - plus Jerry Gray is a better coach than Jackson anyway.

Re: Springs Placed on IR, Rumph Released
 

[quote=BDBohnzie;264150]Springs already has the cover ability and is a decent tackler, it makes him an ideal safety. Think among the lines of Troy Vincent and Rod Woodson. Moving to Safety extended both careers. And it seems that Nate Clements is on his way here...since Matty's spies saw him looking at houses in the area.

Guess this means AA will continue to be the highest paid special teamer in NFL history.[/quote]

Maybe it's just perception, but it seems to me that safeties dole out a lot more punishment than corners do (and by extension take a lot more contact), and again, totally anecdotally, it sure seems like safeties get injured more than corners do, on the whole. Anyone actually play competitive football on defense and have a perspective on this?

Re: Springs Placed on IR, Rumph Released
 

[quote=Schneed10;264179]Fair enough, he does get his share of injuries. I just take issue with those who equate Springs to the likes of Fragile Freddy Taylor. Not that you were doing so, I just wanted to throw the facts out there on Springs. I would agree, he's not the most durable guy in the world. But I wouldn't call him injury prone either.[/quote]

No doubt -- and I was thinking of Taylor when I wrote it actually -- Taylor's been labeled fragile but in the last 5 years, he's only missed 8 games. (and who would have guessed dude would have close to 1200 on the ground with a 5.0 ypc average? Crazy!)

So yeah, perception is a big part of it for sure.

Re: Springs Placed on IR, Rumph Released
 

Springs is going to be an injury concern wherever he plays. The possible move to safety doesn't have anything to do with protecting him from injury.

As he gets older he's going to lose a step, if he hasn't already just a bit. At safety you don't need the speed that you do at corner. Plus the move will give us some nice flexibility since he could easily fill in and start at corner when needed. I just like the fact we can shore up the safety spot and keep a quality veteran like him around.

Re: Springs Placed on IR, Rumph Released
 

If we do not already have the most expensive safeties in history, then allocating springs cap number to that position would certainly make it so.

Re: Springs Placed on IR, Rumph Released
 

[quote=gabe1984;264176]I think that in those packages we wouldn't have to put Springs at safety. Assuming we pick up Clements, we could have Vincent and Taylor at Safety, while Springs, Clements, and Rodgers play corner. I think that having Springs at safety will help prevent the deep ball, and hopefully Carlos Rodgers can pick up his play and make a decent number two corner next year. I think that in general Springs is a good player for us, remember how he D'd up Steve Smith in the Carolina game. The only thing that scares me is that he's getting a little old, so that's why having him a safety seems like a good idea to me. Also, I hope next year that Springs and Vincent can assume the roles of the leaders on defense. We need veterans with that kind of experience to direct the defense, especially the secondary.[/quote]
i, for one, am not comfortable with vincent at safety. other than the blocked kick, he hasnt done anything but get torched like everyone else. hopefully preilou will come back healthy. to me he seemed like he was always around the ball

Re: Springs Placed on IR, Rumph Released
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;264100] I heard Nate Clements is already house shopping in the area.[/QUOTE]

Did you really hear that?

Re: Springs Placed on IR, Rumph Released
 

[quote=Grim21Reaper;264109]Likewise.

By the way, Betts lost that game.[/quote]
Your right and the D giving up 570 yards had nothing to do with it.

Re: Springs Placed on IR, Rumph Released
 

[quote=firstdown;264219]Your right and the D giving up 570 yards had nothing to do with it.[/quote]

It always falls on one person or one play.

Re: Springs Placed on IR, Rumph Released
 

[quote=Schneed10;264077]Kudos to the members of this board who anticipated a potential Springs move to safety. It's not far fetched - GW has always liked corners and safeties to be versatile and somewhat interchangeable. After all, he moved Troy Vincent from corner to safety in Buffalo several years ago - before Vincent grew ancient.

The Warpath community, once again, proves to be the most knowledgable of all Redskin fan sites.

I think the indication that Springs could move to S increases the chances that the club gets all up on Nate Clements.[/quote]

Usually I'm always wrong, but allow me to take this time to bask in the glory of being right 1% of the time.

Much like Kevin in Home Alone: Yessssssssssssssssssssssssssssss!

Re: Springs Placed on IR, Rumph Released
 

[quote=Mattyk72;264100]I really like hearing that the coaching staff is considering moving Springs to safety, I think that's a great call and a strong indicator that Springs will be back... just not as the starting corner. I heard Nate Clements is already house shopping in the area.[/quote]

This is true but until we actually sign another corner it does not make too much since to talk about moving the best that we have to safety.

But all indications do suggest that we are going to "overpay" (as one ESPN reporter put it) Clements to come to Washington next season

Re: Springs Placed on IR, Rumph Released
 

As long as we have the cash to MAINTAIN some people like Dockery and re-sign Cooley and Taylor, I'm cool with whatever they wanna' pay him.

Re: Springs Placed on IR, Rumph Released
 

[quote=dgack;264205]No doubt -- and I was thinking of Taylor when I wrote it actually -- Taylor's been labeled fragile but in the last 5 years, he's only missed 8 games. (and who would have guessed dude would have close to 1200 on the ground with a 5.0 ypc average? Crazy!)

So yeah, perception is a big part of it for sure.[/quote]

I'd like to know what good perception does us if it's flat out wrong. Facts are facts. Springs isn't a fragile player.

Re: Springs Placed on IR, Rumph Released
 

I don't understand those with concerns regarding the physicality of Springs playing safety. Have you seen him in run support? He hits hard. He'll be fine at safety.

Re: Springs Placed on IR, Rumph Released
 

[quote=Mattyk72;264100]I really like hearing that the coaching staff is considering moving Springs to safety, I think that's a great call and a strong indicator that Springs will be back... just not as the starting corner. I heard Nate Clements is already house shopping in the area.[/quote]

is nate clements any good? b/c if he cant play i dont want him here.

Re: Springs Placed on IR, Rumph Released
 

[quote=dall-assblows;264249]is nate clements any good? b/c if he cant play i dont want him here.[/quote]

He is probably one of the top corners availble on the free agent market - this is not overpaying like they did with Neon Dieon who was over the hill. Most teams with cash and cap space don't let their top flight corners get away - Buffalo is a small market team and will not have the money to offer Clements a $10 million signing bonus that Synder will pony up for him. Also Clement's agent put a clause in his contract last year that restricts the Bills from placing the franchise tag on him, so Buffalo won't get 2 first round picks if someone else sign him - now that is an agent who is earning his money unlike the Postons who don't even both to read their clients contracts (see Lavar Arrington fiasco).

Re: Springs Placed on IR, Rumph Released
 

[quote=dall-assblows;264249]is nate clements any good? b/c if he cant play i dont want him here.[/quote]

He's the top corner available.

2006 Scouting Report - Scouts Inc.
[B]Grade:[/B] 89 | [URL="http://proxy.espn.go.com/nfl/features/scouting#key"][COLOR=#000000]Key[/COLOR][/URL]
[B]Alert:[/B] None

[B]Comment:[/B]
Clements has great size and excellent foot speed and acceleration. He stays low in his backpedal and wastes very little motion when he flips his hips to turn and run. He can run with most receivers and, at his size, rarely is in a mismatch. He does an excellent job with the jam and is at his best in press man-to-man coverage. He excels at getting his hands on receivers and rerouting them off the line of scrimmage. He has great upper-body strength and is aggressive with blockers. He doesn't waste time with anyone trying to screen him from the play. He has excellent body control, change-of-direction skills and burst to the ball. He has outstanding top-end speed and can make up for mistakes in coverage. He has very good leaping ability and ball skills. He judges the ball extremely well in the air. He is a threat on punt returns or interception runbacks. He goes hard to the ball, always seems to be around the play and is a very aggressive tackler. He generally takes good pursuit angles but has mental lapses now and then. He gambles too much and will get caught playing off technique, looking into the backfield and getting beaten by a double move. He needs to improve his focus and concentration.