Whats going on with our skins?
 

I am so frustrated at this team they went from being one of the storied franchises in the league to a laughing stock. The players that are coming to the team via free agency it seems only come for the big payday. We let our core group of players leave and the skins write them off (they become stars elsewhere). From the recent articles in the post and on espn.com it seems that everyone is unhappy, from coaches to players. I have never heard of a team talking this much in the media about the internal turmoil amongst a team. Gibbs has had 3 years to “right this ship” and during that time period we have seen two former skins coaches flourish and turn their respective teams around (chargers and bengals). Im really just venting, I am tired of hearing excuses, this past seasons team was the most pathetic skins team I have ever seen, no depth, no heart, and no class, that’s what this team has been reduced to.

Re: Whats going on with our skins?
 

Growing pains... new system, new players.. growing pains. If in the next 2 years we haven't turned things around then I'll call them pathetic...

Re: Whats going on with our skins?
 

What's up with the microscopic font?

Re: Whats going on with our skins?
 

I vote for poor front office management. This team has had zero stability since JKC died and refused to leave it to his son John. Having the egomaniacal Danny Snyder as an owner is just making things worse.

Re: Whats going on with our skins?
 

Whats odd is that we have no depth at some positions and a tremendous amount at others.
WR: What team has 5 WR's that have been starters in the league?
RB: Came in with Portis, Betts , Rock and Nemo. We cut nemo and sign Duckett. I know portis was injured, but you can't give away a 3rd round pick for a security blanket especially since gibbs was so high on betts.

DE and CB, we are weak.
I don't think we have any defensive ends on the team. Most importantly, Opposing QB's didnt notice them either.

CB, What about a security blanket if springs gets hurt? We go into a season with 4 CB's with one being primarily a special teams standout. 3 CB's! we can barely cover a 3WR set when healthy. Unfortunately we saw what happened we when arent...

Re: Whats going on with our skins?
 

[QUOTE=squrrelco3;266113]I vote for poor front office management. This team has had zero stability since JKC died and refused to leave it to his son John. Having the egomaniacal Danny Snyder as an owner is just making things worse.[/QUOTE]

Well, JKC is the one who refused to leave it to his son. But that's neither here nor there. Blaming Snyder is a tired excuse

Re: Whats going on with our skins?
 

[quote=TAFKAS;266107]What's up with the microscopic font?[/quote]

My bad, I typed it in word and copied it over.

Re: Whats going on with our skins?
 

[QUOTE=Stacks42;266154]My bad, I typed it in word and copied it over.[/QUOTE]

I fixed it for you

Re: Whats going on with our skins?
 

[quote=squrrelco3;266113]I vote for poor front office management. This team has had zero stability since JKC died and refused to leave it to his son John. Having the egomaniacal Danny Snyder as an owner is just making things worse.[/quote]

I actually thought that the estate taxes on the Redskins team were too much for JKC's son to afford so they were forced to sell the team - JKC's son actually wanted to own it but like many wealthy families who own businesses they were forced to sell when the owner died.

Re: Whats going on with our skins?
 

[quote=TAFKAS;266153]Well, JKC is the one who refused to leave it to his son. But that's neither here nor there. Blaming Snyder is a tired excuse[/quote]

You can't ignore the owner being part of the problem when a team is consistantly bad under his ownership. I'd blame the Pittsburgh Pirates owner for their last place finishes every year. Not spending, and spending poorly yield the same results.

Re: Whats going on with our skins?
 

[quote=Bill B;266157]I actually thought that the estate taxes on the Redskins team were too much for JKC's son to afford so they were forced to sell the team - JKC's son actually wanted to own it but like many wealthy families who own businesses they were forced to sell when the owner died.[/quote]

My understanding is JKC left the team to his foundation with instructions to sell the team and give the profits to the foundation for scholarships etc. John made a bid but it was nowhere close to being competitive.

Re: Whats going on with our skins?
 

[QUOTE=Bill B;266157]I actually thought that the estate taxes on the Redskins team were too much for JKC's son to afford so they were forced to sell the team - JKC's son actually wanted to own it but like many wealthy families who own businesses they were forced to sell when the owner died.[/QUOTE]
I too thought that JKC was too much in debt when he died (estate taxes, etc..), that the family was basicly forced to sell the team...

Re: Whats going on with our skins?
 

[QUOTE=squrrelco3;266229]My understanding is JKC left the team to his foundation with instructions to sell the team and give the profits to the foundation for scholarships etc. John made a bid but it was nowhere close to being competitive.[/QUOTE]

That's pretty much it.

Re: Whats going on with our skins?
 

[quote=TAFKAS;266153]Blaming Snyder is a tired excuse[/quote]

Look there is no denying the fact that Snyder want's to win, but he wants to win it his way and his way hasn't worked for nine years...why should it start working now?

Re: Whats going on with our skins?
 

I really hate Snyder he is a smug lil piece of sh*t, I used to see him all the time at Morton's in Reston (near ashburn where the skins practice). He would walk in with his big stupid stinking cigar and act like he owned the world, at the time it didnt bug me as much. He really ruined this franchise, the fans that are real fans cant afford to go to the games, its become and event for corporate shmoozing. I mean seriously if two people go to a skins game it literally comes down to between a $500-$700 day (im a season ticket holder and I have actually given my seats away because it becomes too expensive to go). Is that how you treat your fans? I would be a little more compasionate if the skins actually put a competitive team on the field, but when the hell was the last time that happened?

Re: Whats going on with our skins?
 

As far as Snyder goes, didn't he do exactly what we were all screaming for him to do: Take his hands off, and leave it to the people who know football ?

He's listening to Gibbs, and doing everything Gibbs says.

Re: Whats going on with our skins?
 

[quote=Bill B;266157]I actually thought that the estate taxes on the Redskins team were too much for JKC's son to afford so they were forced to sell the team - JKC's son actually wanted to own it but like many wealthy families who own businesses they were forced to sell when the owner died.[/quote]

Randy Learner died and his son kept the team. Same with the Hunts and Mara's. JKC did not directly leave the team to his son. He left it to the foundation. The foundation was a bunch of people who worked for JKC. His son was part of the foundation. They were instructed to get the highest bid which they did. John's bid was 680 million but he didn't actually have anywhere near that amount. He was trying borrow most of the money from Bank of America. Bottom line was Snyder had the $ and John did not. His own father screwed him over.

Re: Whats going on with our skins?
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan69;266296]Randy Learner died and his son kept the team. Same with the Hunts and Mara's. JKC did not directly leave the team to his son. He left it to the foundation. The foundation was a bunch of people who worked for JKC. His son was part of the foundation. They were instructed to get the highest bid which they did. John's bid was 680 million but he didn't actually have anywhere near that amount. He was trying borrow most of the money from Bank of America. Bottom line was Snyder had the $ and John did not. His own father screwed him over.[/QUOTE]

And remember originally it looked like the team was going to go to Howard Millstein. Until that deal fell through and Snyder went from a minority on that team to a majority owner.

Anyhow, JKC never seemed to have much respect for John. I understand John has a pretty successful winery in Virginia these days.

Re: Whats going on with our skins?
 

Apparently, there are a few ultra-gazillionaire venture capitalists who are of the opinion that wealth should never be easily passed to heirs. They worked hard for it, earned it, and their kids should do the same. It makes for a healthier economy, and better capitalism.

Obviously JKC felt the same way.

Re: Whats going on with our skins?
 

[quote=Stacks42;266099]I am so frustrated at this team they went from being one of the storied franchises in the league to a laughing stock. The players that are coming to the team via free agency it seems only come for the big payday. We let our core group of players leave and the skins write them off (they become stars elsewhere). From the recent articles in the post and on espn.com it seems that everyone is unhappy, from coaches to players. I have never heard of a team talking this much in the media about the internal turmoil amongst a team. Gibbs has had 3 years to “right this ship” and during that time period we have seen two former skins coaches flourish and turn their respective teams around (chargers and bengals). Im really just venting, I am tired of hearing excuses, this past seasons team was the most pathetic skins team I have ever seen, no depth, no heart, and no class, that’s what this team has been reduced to.[/quote]

What's going on is we are basically a low level NFL team. Plain and simple. The franchise is a complete mess.

Re: Whats going on with our skins?
 

[quote=Stacks42;266099]I am so frustrated at this team they went from being one of the storied franchises in the league to a laughing stock. The players that are coming to the team via free agency it seems only come for the big payday. We let our core group of players leave and the skins write them off (they become stars elsewhere). From the recent articles in the post and on espn.com it seems that everyone is unhappy, from coaches to players. I have never heard of a team talking this much in the media about the internal turmoil amongst a team. Gibbs has had 3 years to “right this ship” and during that time period we have seen two former skins coaches flourish and turn their respective teams around (chargers and bengals). Im really just venting, I am tired of hearing excuses, this past seasons team was the most pathetic skins team I have ever seen, no depth, no heart, and no class, that’s what this team has been reduced to.[/quote]

Why don't you chill out! We were just in the playoffs last season! We made some strides toward the end of the season that gives out some hope for next year! I, myself, see a much improved team on the horizon next year. You say you've never heard of a team talking this much in the media, have you been paying attention to our friends the big blue up in NYC? I know you're frustrated, but please hang in there!

Re: Whats going on with our skins?
 

All I know is we've only made the playoffs twice in the last 15 years. That's futility that is right up there with debacles like the Browns and Lions. We aren't good, and barring a 6 game stretch last year, we haven't been good in a LOOOOONG time. And the savior Joe Gibbs is a paltry 21-27 since returning. Snyder is arrogant enough to think throwing money around at FA's is the way to a championship. We win the Super Bowl every offseason, don't we?

We don't build through the draft, we have no general manager making sound personnel decisions, we're terribly inconsistent on both sides of the ball, and other GM's around the league (always on condition of anonymity) routinely bash the hell out of our repetitive bad decision making. I'm flat out sick of it. We are a punch line, and I don't think anyone, including Gibbs, should be safe from intense scrutiny. And yet every year I have hope. I've said before being a Redskins fan is my cross to bear, and it's a heavy one.

Re: Whats going on with our skins?
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan69;266329]What's going on is we are basically a low level NFL team. Plain and simple. The franchise is a complete mess.[/QUOTE]

I think though we need to step back and keep in mind that there a lot of teams that have "inner turmoil", that aside from Pierce no player has really gone on to shine elsewhere. Coles is doing fine in NY sure, but Moss is as good if not better. Ramsey is doing nothing, Smoot hasn't done anything for the Vikings, LA didn't help the Giants make the playoffs, Clark is a nice story but he did get benched didn't he? I wish we still had Pierce and Clark looks better mainly because Prioleau got hurt. But for the rest of them, I don't think we'd necessarily be better off without them.

And I'd hardly say the Bengals flourished (both on and off the field) this year.

Should the organization be frustrated with this season? Sure. But we're not considerably worse off than the rest of the league.

Re: Whats going on with our skins?
 

[quote=TAFKAS;266346]I think though we need to step back and keep in mind that there a lot of teams that have "inner turmoil", that aside from Pierce no player has really gone on to shine elsewhere. Coles is doing fine in NY sure, but Moss is as good if not better. Ramsey is doing nothing, Smoot hasn't done anything for the Vikings, LA didn't help the Giants make the playoffs, Clark is a nice story but he did get benched didn't he? I wish we still had Pierce and Clark looks better mainly because Prioleau got hurt. But for the rest of them, I don't think we'd necessarily be better off without them.

And I'd hardly say the Bengals flourished (both on and off the field) this year.

Should the organization be frustrated with this season? Sure. But we're not considerably worse off than the rest of the league.[/quote]

True but those players performed well for us. They were core players as Gibbs like to say. This is why our defense isn't any good. Smoot, Clark and Pierce are not here and it finally caught up with us. It's so stupid to not pay guys that play well for you and overpay for people from other teams. And we are worse off. We have no cap money and no draft picks. How are we going to get better? Re structure contracts and gas up Redskins One? Everyone knows you have to build through the draft and not only that but you have to draft well. Draft guys that play well together. We have hope on offense but with the defense it's going to take time.

Re: Whats going on with our skins?
 

I think the Skins should all look at what a team like the Jets did in last year's draft as a good example of how pivotal draft day can be. We throw away draft picks with the same recklessness as Snyder pisses away money on overhyped, underachieving free agents. See the Duckett trade as a perfect example. A 3rd round pick for a guy who got all of what, 20 carries this year? And he won't even be on the roster in a few weeks...

Re: Whats going on with our skins?
 

Wouldn't it be something if Duckett re-signed with the Redskins?

Re: Whats going on with our skins?
 

[quote=TAFKAS;266364]Wouldn't it be something if Duckett re-signed with the Redskins?[/quote]

It would be. Our backfield would be absolutely sick. But I think he is probably too good to be a 3rd string player.

Re: Whats going on with our skins?
 

[quote=Stacks42;266099]I am so frustrated at this team they went from being one of the storied franchises in the league to a laughing stock. The players that are coming to the team via free agency it seems only come for the big payday. We let our core group of players leave and the skins write them off (they become stars elsewhere). From the recent articles in the post and on espn.com it seems that everyone is unhappy, from coaches to players. I have never heard of a team talking this much in the media about the internal turmoil amongst a team. Gibbs has had 3 years to “right this ship” and during that time period we have seen two former skins coaches flourish and turn their respective teams around (chargers and bengals). Im really just venting, I am tired of hearing excuses, this past seasons team was the most pathetic skins team I have ever seen, no depth, no heart, and no class, that’s what this team has been reduced to.[/quote]

[url=http://cbs.sportsline.com/nfl/story/9903454]Washington Redskins, Adam Archuleta, Antonio Pierce, Brandon Lloyd, National Football League - CBS SportsLine.com[/url]

This article should, somewhat, answer your question of what's going wrong with the 'skins

Re: Whats going on with our skins?
 

[quote=riggoraider;266371][URL="http://cbs.sportsline.com/nfl/story/9903454"]Washington Redskins, Adam Archuleta, Antonio Pierce, Brandon Lloyd, National Football League - CBS SportsLine.com[/URL]

This article should, somewhat, answer your question of what's going wrong with the 'skins[/quote]

That pretty much wraps it up. I want this shipped fixed, but fixed for the long term not the right now.

Re: Whats going on with our skins?
 

[quote=squrrelco3;266113]I vote for poor front office management. This team has had zero stability since JKC died and refused to leave it to his son John. Having the egomaniacal Danny Snyder as an owner is just making things worse.[/quote]

ding ding ding now you see how i feel about things with this organization.
boy aint it something how things have changed over the years since his passing.
the danny hasn,t proved anything to me and until he does he will keep treating this franchise like a fantasy league team.

i,ve said all along that the front office is where the real problems exist.
but he spends and he,s trying but maybe he,s overtrying a bit i don,t know maybe it,s just me..

Re: Whats going on with our skins?
 

all snyder in my opinion.

Re: Whats going on with our skins?
 

[quote=TAFKAS;266364]Wouldn't it be something if Duckett re-signed with the Redskins?[/quote]

We could run the wishbone with Duckett as the up back and Portis and Betts as tailbacks. Let Randle El be the QB.

Re: Whats going on with our skins?
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan69;266411]We could run the wishbone with Duckett as the up back and Portis and Betts as tailbacks. Let Randle El be the QB.[/QUOTE]

Put Duckett in as MLB

Re: Whats going on with our skins?
 

Go to the Portis 980 thread if you want to know what going on with the Skins.

Re: Whats going on with our skins?
 

It's the same broken record. Here in D.C., the feeling is a GM won't make that much of a difference. However within most NFL circles people have said for years that's one of our biggest downfalls, and we refuse to listen. If one keeps hearing the same thing over and over again from different sources, at what point must it be true?

Another thing, why do I get the feeling this is like a boat with a leak, and Gibbs is running from place to place trying to plug it with his finger, then his toe, then the other finger.....

Re: Whats going on with our skins?
 

[quote=GMScud;266363]I think the Skins should all look at what a team like the Jets did in last year's draft as a good example of how pivotal draft day can be. We throw away draft picks with the same recklessness as Snyder pisses away money on overhyped, underachieving free agents. See the Duckett trade as a perfect example. A 3rd round pick for a guy who got all of what, 20 carries this year? And he won't even be on the roster in a few weeks...[/quote]

Yes, the Jets do build through the draft, but more than that they have a first year coach that wouldn't let those guys quit and got them to the playoffs. I don't think their roster is any more talented than the Skins.

I'll say the same for Kansas City. Herm went in there and said look, this is the way it's going to be...."you play to win the game". Larry Johnson stood in front of the press about 4 weeks ago and said, "this is bullshit, we 'aint trying." No one in KC thought he was dividing the locker room, they saw a perennial All-Pro get angry and rallied behind his words. Ditto Sean Payton and the Saints. I think there is the difference with our team this year and those guys. They'll run through a wall for their coach. Our guys will run through a wall only if our backs are against it.

Re: Whats going on with our skins?
 

[quote=12thMan;266421]Our guys will run through a wall only if our backs are against it.[/quote]

And think about why players might feel that way? Money does not motivate anybody for very long. In the end, people will fight for leaders they believe in, and for leaders they believe believe in THEM.

Of course it's a business, and everybody knows that, but in the real world people don't respond well to the kinds of shenanigans that the Skins pull with personnel on an annual basis, so I don't know why people think pro athletes would react any differently.

Re: Whats going on with our skins?
 

[quote=dgack;266423]And think about why players might feel that way? Money does not motivate anybody for very long. In the end, people will fight for leaders they believe in, and for leaders they believe believe in THEM.

Of course it's a business, and everybody knows that, but in the real world people don't respond well to the kinds of shenanigans that the Skins pull with personnel on an annual basis, so I don't know why people think pro athletes would react any differently.[/quote]

Right. This team isn't responding to this brand of leadership, I don't care what people say. At first we thought it was about Joe's three rings and so forth, but this generation of players can't connect with that and his past. Then we insert 700 pages of Saunders genius, and he is, and it hasn't yielded much yet. It could next year, but not yet.

Re: Whats going on with our skins?
 

[quote=12thMan;266425]Right. This team isn't responding to this brand of leadership, I don't care what people say. At first we thought it was about Joe's three rings and so forth, but this generation of players can't connect with that and his past. Then we insert 700 pages of Saunders genius, and he is, and it hasn't yielded much yet. It could next year, but not yet.[/quote]
It seems as if saunder's isnt flexible enough to realize this is not the chiefs but a real tribe... I mean he doesn't seem to be able to adapt and play to the redskin's strengths..... I would like to see him gone...Keep Gibbs cut saunders

Re: Whats going on with our skins?
 

Like it or not here is my take on the Skins .You're not a bad team the Betts fumble was more of a good hit than Betts fualt..helmet on the ball is a very hard thing to stop.1 or 2 free agents and you're in business Gibbs is a good coach and giving cambell a whole year will mean alot.You had some injuries ...all teams do but that's just the luck of the game ,wholesale changes aren't needed IMHO.:food-smil