Considering moving Springs to safety...
 

It seems as if we will pursue a corner in free agency as the skins will need to fill the void when and if they move [URL="http://www.redskins.com/news/newsDetail.jsp?id=24549"]Springs to safety[/URL]. This is fine by me but if we sign either Clements or Samuel, who will replace "Almost" Rogers because the guy is not a starter.

Re: Considering moving Springs to safety...
 

Actually I'd disagree pretty strongly that he is not a starter. I don't think he is a #1 but he is a solid #2 CB.

Re: Considering moving Springs to safety...
 

[quote=FRPLG;272561]Actually I'd disagree pretty strongly that he is not a starter. I don't think he is a #1 but he is a solid #2 CB.[/quote]
I just don't think he has earned the trust of the coaches...they line him up 10 yards or so off recievers and he still gets beat. I never thought he was fast enough for starting at corner in the NFL, last season I thought about moving him to safety because its no secret that he can hit. Does anyone know what range his 40 is in?

Re: Considering moving Springs to safety...
 

The main problem that I see with this is Springs' contract. How do you justify paying a safety cover corner money (and then having to go out and find another cover corner)? But there is my problem. I am trying to apply logic to our team....

Re: Considering moving Springs to safety...
 

[quote=Grim21Reaper;272571]The main problem that I see with this is Springs' contract. How do you justify paying a safety cover corner money (and then having to go out and find another cover corner)? [B]But there is my problem. I am trying to apply logic to our team..[/B]..[/quote]


Everything goes down hill after you start doing [I]THAT[/I]!

Re: Considering moving Springs to safety...
 

Isn't it just as expensive to cut Springs as to keep him? I thought I remember reading that here.

Re: Considering moving Springs to safety...
 

[quote=djnemo65;272579]Isn't it just as expensive to cut Springs as to keep him? I thought I remember reading that here.[/quote]
Who said anything about cutting Springs? He is arguably the best player in our talentless secondary.

Re: Considering moving Springs to safety...
 

Moving him to safety might just help get ST back to all-pro form.

Re: Considering moving Springs to safety...
 

[quote=Skins_4_Lyfe;272562]I just don't think he has earned the trust of the coaches...they line him up 10 yards or so off recievers and he still gets beat. I never thought he was fast enough for starting at corner in the NFL, last season I thought about moving him to safety because its no secret that he can hit. Does anyone know what range his 40 is in?[/quote]
They always line the corners 10 yards off. Springs does it too. I don't know what your talking about with Rogers being too slow. His 40 time was a 4.31.
[QUOTE]
Last year, defensive backs Carlos Rogers and Fabian Washington were projected as second-round draft picks before each ran a 4.31 at the combine. Both were picked in the first round.
[/QUOTE]
[url=http://www.neilcornrich.com/2006_02_01_archive.html]Neil Cornrich: February 2006[/url]

Re: Considering moving Springs to safety...
 

He could rotate in and out with AA in passing situations thus using AA more for the run like he originally wanted and Springs for covering...as far as the money goes...it sounds like he might be up for a restructuring...he's already said he would be willing to change positions why not give up a few extra bucks.

Re: Considering moving Springs to safety...
 

[QUOTE=steveo395;272584]They always line the corners 10 yards off. Springs does it too. I don't know what your talking about with Rogers being too slow. His 40 time was a 4.31.

[url=http://www.neilcornrich.com/2006_02_01_archive.html]Neil Cornrich: February 2006[/url][/QUOTE]

I don't remember Rogers running that fast. My recollection was he ran something like a 4.41.

Re: Considering moving Springs to safety...
 

Theres no way Rogers ran a 4.31....no way.

Re: Considering moving Springs to safety...
 

[quote=Crat92;272581]Moving him to safety might just help get ST back to all-pro form.[/quote]
I love ST, but I could give a F*@# about him being in "All-Pro form", I just want to see some wins.
His performance won't really make a difference because Offenses in this league respect him too much and they make their game plans around him. Its safe to say that his rookie season will be the best of his career.

Re: Considering moving Springs to safety...
 

[quote=steveo395;272584]They always line the corners 10 yards off. Springs does it too. I don't know what your talking about with Rogers being too slow. His 40 time was a 4.31.

[URL="http://www.neilcornrich.com/2006_02_01_archive.html"]Neil Cornrich: February 2006[/URL][/quote]
Thats BS...this must be one of those cases where his game speed doesn't match his 40 because I'm not seeing 4.31 on the field.

Re: Considering moving Springs to safety...
 

[QUOTE=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;272587]I don't remember Rogers running that fast. My recollection was he ran something like a 4.41.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Skins_4_Lyfe;272592]Thats BS...this must be one of those cases where his game speed doesn't match his 40 because I'm not seeing 4.31 on the field.[/QUOTE]


C. Rogers ran a 4.31 at the NFL combine which is what elevated him to top half of first round.
Here is link: [url]http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/9244060[/url]

Which said, "In 2005, 11 defensive backs ran their 40-yard dash in times of 4.40 and under. Of the 11, six ran for times of 4.35 and under. Of those six, Carlos Rogers (4.31) and Fabian Washington (4.31) moved up into the first round.

People have every right to say C. Rogers has dissappointed. However I think he will work his way out of his inconsistant play. Playing CornerBack in the NFL is one of the toughest positions to play in any sport. With all of the new rules it is impossible to shut down a great receiver. Our pass rush from the front four has been a greater weakness for many years and leads to coverage problems. You can only cover a WR for so long.
I say lets give him another chance and not boo him. He is a good kid that works very hard, he deserves another chance. I bet if our front seven stops the run better and improves on the pass rush, all of our Db's confidance and coverage will also improve greatly. Out entire defense will improve. It all starts up front and this last year our front seven FAILD.

Re: Considering moving Springs to safety...
 

[QUOTE=Defensewins;272593]People have every right to say C. Rogers has dissappointed. However I think he will work his way out of his inconsistant play. Playoing CornerBack in the NFL is one of the toughest positions to play in any sport. With all of the new rules it is impossible to shut down a great receiver. Our pass rush from the front four has been a greater weakness for many years and leads to coverage problems. You can only cover a WR for so long. I say lets give him another chance and not boo him.[/QUOTE]

I definately agree that corner is one of the hardest positions to play in the NFL, but thus far Rogers hasn't lived up to his hype. Our pass rush has also been shoddy, but I've seen Rogers make some pretty bad plays on a consistent basis. Most notably, he drops easy INTs that even corners should be expected to get. I have not given up on Rogers, but my hopes and expectations are dying out.

Re: Considering moving Springs to safety...
 

The bigger problem with Rogers for me is his attitude. He doesn't seem to have the commitment to improve that is necessary to be a top flight corner in the NFL.

Re: Considering moving Springs to safety...
 

Playing corner is alot like playing Qb, it is all about confidance. If you can not trust your guys up front, it makes your job so much harder. Once your confidance is shot at corner your are F***ed. Thus the big cushion Carlos put ont the WR's and the opposing offenses exploited it.
Our front seven failed this last year. For 3/4 of this last season our front four did not generate any pass rush.
If you do not have a pass rush, I do not care who is playing CB, you will get burned.

Re: Considering moving Springs to safety...
 

I've all but given up on "Almost Rogers"...I never liked him and never thought he was worth a first round pick...we could have had Merriman (How do you miss that one; he played around the corner).

I never really cared for "Almost" anyway, I remember during an interview at the combine he was asked who the best receiver he had ever faced and he responded saying "Taylor Jacobs". NOUGH SAID

Re: Considering moving Springs to safety...
 

[QUOTE=djnemo65;272596]The bigger problem with Rogers for me is his attitude. He doesn't seem to have the commitment to improve that is necessary to be a top flight corner in the NFL.[/QUOTE]

Are you confussing attitude with ability?
I do not recall hearing anyone from Redskins park or the press say Carlos Rogers has a bad attitude or that he does not work hard enough. Could you name your source? Maybe I missed that story. I live in Houston now. I sometimes miss the local redskins news.

Re: Considering moving Springs to safety...
 

[quote=Defensewins;272600]Are you confussing attitude with ability?
I do not recall hearing anyone from Redskins park or the press say Carlos Rogers has a bad attitude. Could you name your source? Maybe I missed it.[/quote]
If you need a source watch one of his interveiws...he seems like the kid that doesn't care about anything and doesn't do his homework.

Re: Considering moving Springs to safety...
 

[QUOTE=Skins_4_Lyfe;272599]I've all but given up on "Almost Rogers"...I never liked him and never thought he was worth a first round pick...we could have had Merriman (How do you miss that one; he played around the corner).

I never really cared for "Almost" anyway, I remember during an interview at the combine he was asked who the best receiver he had ever faced and he responded saying "Taylor Jacobs". NOUGH SAID[/QUOTE]

A lot of people passed on Merriman, and a lot of people (including Champ) said great, great things about Taylor Jacobs.

Rogers isn't a star on his own, but surround him with solid players and he can definitely make a positive contribution.

Re: Considering moving Springs to safety...
 

[QUOTE=Skins_4_Lyfe;272601]If you need a source watch one of his interveiws...he seems like the kid that doesn't care about anything and doesn't do his homework.[/QUOTE]

????
Are kidding me? Watch an interview? I am going to judge a guys character by an interview?
I don't give a rats a** how a guy interviews. This is football not Ms. America.
Does the guy attend all workouts? Do the coaches and teamates like his attitude and work ethic?
An interview? No thanks, not much of a source.

Re: Considering moving Springs to safety...
 

[quote=TAFKAS;272602]A lot of people passed on Merriman, and a lot of people (including Champ) said great, great things about Taylor Jacobs.

Rogers isn't a star on his own, but surround him with solid players and he can definitely make a positive contribution.[/quote]
I agree, he needs to be surrounded with alot of talent, but "Taylor Jacobs!!!...Taylor Jacobs!!!...Are you kidding me...Taylor Jacobs!!!" lol Jim Mora

Re: Considering moving Springs to safety...
 

Moving Springs & signing Clements should solidify our secondary but a pass rush and hopefully 10-90 Rogers bought a Juggs machine and he is using it 3 times a day.

Re: Considering moving Springs to safety...
 

[QUOTE=Defensewins;272603]????
Are kidding me? Watch an interview? I am going to judge a guys character by an interview?
I don't give a rats a** how a guy interviews. This is football not Ms. America.
Does the guy attend all workouts? Do the coaches and teamates like his attitude and work ethic?
An interview? No thanks, not much of a source.[/QUOTE]

Okay, I'm not going to dig up links for you - you can do that on your own - but I will tell you where to look. Start with an article on Rogers in the Post in which Springs says that Rogers doesn't hang around to ask questions of veterans. Then move onto the article in which Rogers says that he would be considered one of the top corners in the league if he had held onto several interception attempts - a patently ridiculous statement considering he was consistently attacked and burnt all year. Thomas Boswell talked about his lack of fire at one point. He did that dance after Troy Williamson dropped a TD in the first game which was bad. Williams went out of his way to say that Rogers had not been coached to give up the huge cushion he was giving.

Anyway, this is from memory, maye there are more, or maybe I am remembering some of these incorrectly. I just get the feeling he's not a particular humble guy, which is troubling because he sucks.

Re: Considering moving Springs to safety...
 

When criticizing Rogers everyone is forgetting that their was no consistent pressure coming from the front also it sounded to me like the secondary coaches had their heads in their asses all year. In the Carolina game the D-line was all over the QB and Rogers had a great game.

In the NFL, no matter who the corner is, if the QB has time they will beat the coverage.

Re: Considering moving Springs to safety...
 

i would be ok with moving springs to safety IF we had some quality corners. right now, he is the best corner on the roster

Re: Considering moving Springs to safety...
 

[quote=TAFKAS;272602]A lot of people passed on Merriman, and a lot of people (including Champ) said great, great things about Taylor Jacobs.

Rogers isn't a star on his own, but surround him with solid players and he can definitely make a positive contribution.[/quote]

Thank you TAF. You know I'd have to weigh in since it burns me deep in my soul when people fall into this "mob mentality" and instantly label someone as a bust just because other people are saying it. He had maybe 2-3 what I would call "bad" games this year. Sure, I definitely agree he HAS TO CATCH INTERCEPTIONS, and if he did, how many would he have, 5-6? More?

Again, Kenny Wright covering the opposing team's starting receivers was our problem in the secondary, not Rogers. Once Springs was back in the starting lineup, things starting looking pretty damn good back there.

Re: Considering moving Springs to safety...
 

My favorite Rodgers interview was the one after the Tampa Bay game, when they asked him about the play where Joey Galloway burned him on that slant for a touchdown. This is not verbatim, but he said something like, what did you expect? They ran a play action and I had single coverage against "the fastest guy in the NFL," what was I supposed to do? At this point, my opinion about him kinda changed, who says something like that? Ha, even Carlos admits he can't cover people when he doesn't have help. You're a professional, Carlos, man up and make a freakin play boy.

Re: Considering moving Springs to safety...
 

I think Rogers will be okay. I think there was a serious breakdwon in our coaching this year, I don't care what anyone says. If you have one guy down, and your defense can't adjust, that's a coaching and a scheming issue to me.

On a lot of the big plays we gave up this year, it seems that guys were constantly way out of position or nowhere near the ball. Taylor was often chasing people down from behind, when Archuletta did play, he was typically pursuing from behind, same with Rogers. I just refuse to believe that this group of talented guys have fallen off that much in, what, two years.

That being said, I'll put those dropped interceptions squarely on Rogers. But even still, I don't feel like they utilized him to the best of his ability. For instance, why do you play a guy with his speed that far off the receiver? Why not develop that shutdown mentality?

My only knock on Williams is that it seems like he played it safe all year long and it killed us. Getting turnovers are a result of letting guys play and taking risks. For all the good things Gregg Williams has done and for all the praise he gets, it just seems that one elment, the turnover factor, has seemed to be missing since he arrived here.

Re: Considering moving Springs to safety...
 

[quote]My favorite Rodgers interview was the one after the Tampa Bay game, when they asked him about the play where Joey Galloway burned him on that slant for a touchdown. This is not verbatim, but he said something like, what did you expect? They ran a play action and I had single coverage against "the fastest guy in the NFL," what was I supposed to do? At this point, my opinion about him kinda changed, who says something like that? Ha, even Carlos admits he can't cover people when he doesn't have help. You're a professional, Carlos, man up and make a freakin play boy.[/quote]
Please, explain to me WHAT Rogers could have done on that play. There's nothing you can do in single coverage vs a slant, especially someone with that type of speed. I remember talking to gmanc during the game, we both agreed that Rogers wasn't put in a position to make a play. That's nearly an impossible play for a DB to make.

Maybe this is why the Redskins don't draft. One of the hardest positions in the NFL to play, and our top pick of only two years ago, should be playing like an all-pro? It takes time to learn, get used to the NFL, etc. We need to give our draft picks time to adjust and learn how to play, and I think Rogers will be our #1 corner in a few years and will be great.

Rogers is a very solid player and will only get better. We all talked about Jason Campbells rookie mistakes, why isn't Rogers who was drafted in the same year allowed to have them.

No pass rush, very little help from the safeties and even the other corner. Put this guy in a position to break up plays, etc and he'll get them. Answer me this: what other DB even got in position to make INTs this year. The answer is none.

Re: Considering moving Springs to safety...
 

some of the play making corners jump the slant route, either intercepting the pass, or at least knock it down. but i am not ready to give up on rogers, just yet. if he has another season like this years, then i start to worry

Re: Considering moving Springs to safety...
 

The only legitimate complaint you can make about Rogers are his brick hands. The nice thing about the ball hitting his hands so often, though, is the fact that he's there to make some sort of play on the ball rather than be 5 yards away or on his butt. A CB is going to get burnt, no doubt. What's an acceptable amount of plays in which the CB does get burnt in a season? 4? 5? I'd say 4 that leads to a score (TD or ensuing FG)

Re: Considering moving Springs to safety...
 

I was hoping to see a little more improvement from Rogers this year but at the same time with the total collapse of the D in general it's tough to point fingers at individuals.

Re: Considering moving Springs to safety...
 

Right, because can you seriously say ANYONE played stellar on the defensive side of the ball?

Re: Considering moving Springs to safety...
 

[quote=TheMalcolmConnection;272692]Right, because can you seriously say ANYONE played stellar on the defensive side of the ball?[/quote]

Nope.

Nobody played consistently well all season.

Re: Considering moving Springs to safety...
 

[quote=Daseal;272675]Please, explain to me WHAT Rogers could have done on that play. There's nothing you can do in single coverage vs a slant, especially someone with that type of speed. I remember talking to gmanc during the game, we both agreed that Rogers wasn't put in a position to make a play. That's nearly an impossible play for a DB to make.

Maybe this is why the Redskins don't draft. One of the hardest positions in the NFL to play, and our top pick of only two years ago, should be playing like an all-pro? It takes time to learn, get used to the NFL, etc. We need to give our draft picks time to adjust and learn how to play, and I think Rogers will be our #1 corner in a few years and will be great.

Rogers is a very solid player and will only get better. We all talked about Jason Campbells rookie mistakes, why isn't Rogers who was drafted in the same year allowed to have them.

No pass rush, very little help from the safeties and even the other corner. Put this guy in a position to break up plays, etc and he'll get them. Answer me this: what other DB even got in position to make INTs this year. The answer is none.[/quote]

Maybe it's a tough play to defend, and the receiver does have the advantage, but it can still be done. I see corners jump slant routes often enough to believe that it's not too inconceivable. What do I think Rodgers should have done on that play? Not given the "fastet guy in the NFL" a ten yard cusion, and let him get up to full speed. There's one thing I can think of.
I agree with you in the fact that the odds were against him on making a play on that ball, but I think it was ridiculous that he told the media that there was nothing he could do about it. He just sounded so nonchalant when he said it. Yeah man, no big deal, my man burned me for a TD, but hey, there's nothing I could do about that one. His reaction to the play is what really bothered me, not so much that he let up the TD. I just think he woulda sounded a little more classy if he said something like, Joey put a good move on me, I gotta work on jumping those slant routes in practice next week. Not, there's nothing I can do about it, that just sounds like a bad attitude to me.

Re: Considering moving Springs to safety...
 

[quote=gabe1984;272723]Maybe it's a tough play to defend, and the receiver does have the advantage, but it can still be done. I see corners jump slant routes often enough to believe that it's not too inconceivable. What do I think Rodgers should have done on that play? Not given the "fastet guy in the NFL" a ten yard cusion, and let him get up to full speed. There's one thing I can think of.
I agree with you in the fact that the odds were against him on making a play on that ball, but I think it was ridiculous that he told the media that there was nothing he could do about it. He just sounded so nonchalant when he said it. Yeah man, no big deal, my man burned me for a TD, but hey, there's nothing I could do about that one. His reaction to the play is what really bothered me, not so much that he let up the TD. I just think he woulda sounded a little more classy if he said something like, Joey put a good move on me, I gotta work on jumping those slant routes in practice next week. Not, there's nothing I can do about it, that just sounds like a bad attitude to me.[/quote]


I think his response about nothing he could do about it, perhaps, had something to do with "me doing what I'm taught to do" more than "me not actually being able to something to prevent it."

Have you ever wondered why we play our corners so far off the receiver?

Re: Considering moving Springs to safety...
 

[quote=12thMan;272727]I think his response about nothing he could do about it, perhaps, had something to do with "me doing what I'm taught to do" more than "me not actually being able to something to prevent it."

Have you ever wondered why we play our corners so far off the receiver?[/quote]

Well, I still don't like it, not matter what the circumstances are. I guess it's just my opinion. I just feel like you can always make a play. What if we were playing the Chargers and LT got into the secondary on a run, and Rodgers was one on one with him, and needs to make the tackle or he scores at touchdown, and he can't bring him down and LT scores. Is it ok if he tells the media, hey, I'm just a cornerback, trying to tackle the best running back in the league, nothing I could do about it. IMO, no way. I don't think he'd get blamed for not making the tackle, but still, you always have a chance.
As far as that huge cussion goes. I'm really don't think that anyone knows for sure if Williams is telling him to do that, or if he does that by himself. djnemo65 wrote "Williams went out of his way to say that Rogers had not been coached to give up the huge cushion he was giving." Talking about after the Carolina game. So, I don't know that answer. Djnemo65, where did you hear that?