The Forgotten Buffalo Free Agent
 

With all this talk of Fletcher and Clements, I think we may be overlooking another free agent who has been really solid the last few years and could be about to hit his prime

[URL="http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/396007"]Chris Kelsay[/URL]

Gmanc, what can you tell us about him?

Re: The Forgotten Buffalo Free Agent
 

Well having played in the leauge for 10 years, I clearly know that (oh wait, I'm just some 21 year old college kid who could barley cut it in HS)....


But Kelsay is very solid. I'd defintley put him above any of our current defensive ends right now (save Carter, since we kinda saw him be absolutley terrible half the year, then a great player the second half). He would clearly be an upgrade at the position, especially if we decide to shop our #6 pick around and trade down. Now Kelsay does have the pleasure of playing opposite Aaronn Schobel, who is an absolute beast and takes some pressure off Kelsay I would think. In any event he would be someone I'd welcome on the team, going into his 5th year, and its a guy Williams drafted so thats good too.

Honestly, I think the defensive end positions are more important than middle linebacker. I mean when we had constant pressure on the QB in 2005, Lamar Marshall was a beast, I still have alot of faith that he will make an impact on the team next year, but it could be the on the weakside.

Re: The Forgotten Buffalo Free Agent
 

I like the thinking . I would love to bring in a Kelsay or kearney < Atl > , both guys have a high motor and maybe not cost the team a ton of cash ? Either of them and Fletcher could give the team D some tenacity ! Hopefully we get a true gem at the 6 spot < or trade down and get more > , find a corner , we could have a nice 07 !

Re: The Forgotten Buffalo Free Agent
 

I just wished we could go back in time and bring in Charles Mann and Dexter Manley again. I think our defense line problems would be solved then...lol!

Re: The Forgotten Buffalo Free Agent
 

[QUOTE=budw38;280066]I like the thinking . I would love to bring in a Kelsay or kearney < Atl > , both guys have a high motor and maybe not cost the team a ton of cash ? Either of them and Fletcher could give the team D some tenacity ! Hopefully we get a true gem at the 6 spot < or trade down and get more > , find a corner , we could have a nice 07 ![/QUOTE]

kerney would cost a lot i think

Re: The Forgotten Buffalo Free Agent
 

I keep trying to understand how a line with Griffith, Daniels, Salavea, and Wynn looked so good just 3 years ago and so bad now. Some of the run problems must be placed on the linebackers.

The biggest problem appears to be at MLB and DT. We lost Pierce and Griffith lost a little bit each of the past years, as has Salavea. I think that a beast DT (draft) and a guy like Fletcher would help the run defense return to form. If a guy like Kelsay could be had at an affordable price, I think we move Daniels to a DT-DE rotation and release Wynn.

Re: The Forgotten Buffalo Free Agent
 

[quote=Big C;280072]kerney would cost a lot i think[/quote]

He looking for around 7 million a year

Re: The Forgotten Buffalo Free Agent
 

[QUOTE=GoSkins!;280075]I keep trying to understand how a line with Griffith, Daniels, Salavea, and Wynn looked so good just 3 years ago and so bad now.
[/QUOTE]

all are 30 or more now

Re: The Forgotten Buffalo Free Agent
 

GoSkins

How does a DL with Griffith, Daniels, Salavea, and Wynn look bad today when they looked so good three years ago? Let me try to explain...

First of all, they had a much more talented linebacking crew right behind them three years ago than they had last year. That made them look a bit better then than they really were. But that's not the main point.

Secondly, there is the "Father Time Factor". And no one dodges Father Time.

Third of all, there is the problem that lots of people - including unfortunately the Skins' FO -do not seem to comprehend the "Father Time Factor".

When a team is put together with guys who have made a solid name for themselves in the league, that means [B]they tend to be in their late 20s or early 30s[/B] when the team (Skins) signs them. Sure, some players are still really, really good through the age of 35 or even 37. BUT most players are on the downside of their careers right after 30. If they are not on the downside, they aren't getting any better...

So the Skins tend to sign a lot of guys who have only about one - or at most three - years left in them [B]where they even resemble the stud that the Skins signed as a free agent.[/B] Time and injuries take their toll. That's what happened to the four guys you mentioned on the DL. They aren't nearly the players they were 2 or 3 years ago, and it's not their fault. Oh and they dont' have nearly the level of talent behind them to cover for the increased number of times they get beaten these days so that makes them look all the more "deteriorated".

One of these years, the "football people" at Redskins' Park will catch lightning in a bottle and put together a spectacular team that will dodge the injury bullets and go really deep into the playoffs - - maybe even win a Super Bowl. But if the "football people" there continue with that philosophy, they are unlikely to repeat that performance more than one time because catching lightning in a bottle is neither safe nor highly probable.

So long as there is a salary cap in the NFL, that's a key part of the dynamic that has teams moving up and down in the standings.

Re: The Forgotten Buffalo Free Agent
 

So should we go after Kelsay, SC?

Re: The Forgotten Buffalo Free Agent
 

i'm not sure he's really that much better... what's the asking price?

Re: The Forgotten Buffalo Free Agent
 

TAFKAS:

I'd go after Kelsay long before I'd go after guys like Kearney. And I'd surely want to get someone like Kelsay instead of using the #6 draft pick on a DE who has only had to defend against college level linemen.

I'd prefer that the Skins find themselves a stud to play DT who can collapse the pocket from the inside on pass plays. Griffin did that a couple of years ago; there has been a real lack of that part of the defensive scheme for the past two seasons. But that isn't where the FO seems to be focused at the moment so the best thing is for them to get the best DE they can for a reasonable price.

I have no idea what Kelsay will command in the free agent market. Any estimates?

Re: The Forgotten Buffalo Free Agent
 

I have no idea what the asking price on Kelsay is. Just a name that I thought could garner some interest and fill a need for us

Re: The Forgotten Buffalo Free Agent
 

i heard he is asking about a bil.

Re: The Forgotten Buffalo Free Agent
 

This guy has 100 tackles and 12.5 sacks in 4 years. Phillip Daniels is more productive even with the injured season.

Re: The Forgotten Buffalo Free Agent
 

[QUOTE=Grim21Reaper;280106]This guy has 100 tackles and 12.5 sacks in 4 years. Phillip Daniels is more productive even with the injured season.[/QUOTE]

I wasn't thinking as much of what he's done but more so what he could do in the future. He seems to be getting better, still fairly young, could be about to hit his prime. Isn't that what we need more of, guys who are on their way to greatness rather than guys who merely have it in their rearview mirror?

Re: The Forgotten Buffalo Free Agent
 

[quote=TAFKAS;280089]So should we go after Kelsay, SC?[/quote]


i would say that we shouldnt cause Gaines Adams and Jamaal Anderson will be beasts in the league we shouldnt pass that up they both are better than mario williams and he went number one (which was stupid on the texans part)

Re: The Forgotten Buffalo Free Agent
 

[QUOTE=EARTHQUAKE2689;280110]i would say that we shouldnt cause Gaines Adams and Jamaal Anderson will be beasts in the league we shouldnt pass that up they both are better than mario williams and he went number one (which was stupid on the texans part)[/QUOTE]

I'm not the biggest Adams fan quite honestly. I really like Anderson but I feel like Branch or Okoye would be a better choice and then take a DE in Free Agency. With the exception of maybe Rod Coleman and Robaire Smith I can't think of any DTs in free agency that stand out.

Re: The Forgotten Buffalo Free Agent
 

[quote=TAFKAS;280112]I'm not the biggest Adams fan quite honestly. I really like Anderson but I feel like Branch or Okoye would be a better choice and then take a DE in Free Agency. With the exception of maybe Rod Coleman and Robaire Smith I can't think of any DTs in free agency that stand out.[/quote]


i know everyone for some reason isnt a gaines adams fan but come on the guy was dominant in college and he reportedly runs a 4.57 i am leaning towards jamaal anderson cause of his size he can also stop the run but it would be real hard not to go after Gaines if he drops which he most likely will but i would be happy with either

Re: The Forgotten Buffalo Free Agent
 

[QUOTE=EARTHQUAKE2689;280113]i know everyone for some reason isnt a gaines adams fan but come on the guy was dominant in college and he reportedly runs a 4.57 i am leaning towards jamaal anderson cause of his size he can also stop the run but it would be real hard not to go after Gaines if he drops which he most likely will but i would be happy with either[/QUOTE]

You know I don't think it's so much that he won't be good. It's that I think we sort of have him already in Andre Carter. What we need, in my opinion, is a young Cornelius Griffin or better yet Dave Butz, Okoye and Branch come closest to that.

Re: The Forgotten Buffalo Free Agent
 

[quote=TAFKAS;280114]You know I don't think it's so much that he won't be good. It's that I think we sort of have him already in Andre Carter. What we need, in my opinion, is a young Cornelius Griffin or better yet Dave Butz, Okoye and Branch come closest to that.[/quote]


that is true right now i am leaning to jamaal anderson and alan branch either one will be a great upgrade cause griffin is getting old and i dont know why we havent cut phillip daniels or renaldo wynn yet i mean it is really getting annoying that they are still on the team and mark brunell and i dont really like shawn springs anymore either i know we are going to sign london fletcher and i want us to get nate clements and then draft either alan branch or jamaal anderson

Re: The Forgotten Buffalo Free Agent
 

I think kelsay is a product of his environment.... That d line is pretty good, but with Fletcher and TKO behind them, and mcgee and clements behind them... they should look good...


BTW.. London Fletcher is the highest ranked player on the bills team in Madden... just so you know...

Re: The Forgotten Buffalo Free Agent
 

[quote=TAFKAS;280109]I wasn't thinking as much of what he's done but more so what he could do in the future. He seems to be getting better, still fairly young, could be about to hit his prime. Isn't that what we need more of, guys who are on their way to greatness rather than guys who merely have it in their rearview mirror?[/quote]


Wouldn't you expect more signs of dominance if this guy was going to have a "breakout" season.

The average NFL career is less than four years. When is this guy supposed to blossom?

Re: The Forgotten Buffalo Free Agent
 

running a 4.6 at 260lbs isn't really that impressive. carter got pushed around in the run game, and the skins are the quick scoring colts that get other team's in a hole really quickly, so i'm not sure another light DE is the best idea. I'd really prefer branch right now.

I also doubt kelsay is destined for greatness ;) by all accounts he looks like a fairly average DE.

Re: The Forgotten Buffalo Free Agent
 

This thread was a lot more fun in my head :) Seriously though, I wasn't saying break the bank for him (he's no Justin Smith after all), I was just saying he might be a decent alternative and still give us room to fill other needs. He wouldn't be priority #1 by any means, just an option to consider.

Re: The Forgotten Buffalo Free Agent
 

[quote=TAFKAS;280132]This thread was a lot more fun in my head :) Seriously though, I wasn't saying break the bank for him (he's no Justin Smith after all), I was just saying he might be a decent alternative and still give us room to fill other needs. He wouldn't be priority #1 by any means, just an option to consider.[/quote]


given who we have in daniels and carter, and the draft opportuinties we have, I think we're pretty much set at that position... we need secondary help like there's no tomorrow... if we cant find a good starting SS we're screwed...

Did you see what a difference Bob Sanders meant to the Colt's D through the playoffs? They were a completely different team... I dont' think they were coached up for the playoffs, this guy was killing people and set a tempo and everyone played up to his intensity and were able to do their job because they weren't compensating for someone doing more than they were supposed to... if that makes sense... (im a little drunk)

SS is a key position in our system and we have to find someone who can offer up versatility.

Re: The Forgotten Buffalo Free Agent
 

[quote=canthetuna;280136]given who we have in daniels and carter, and the draft opportuinties we have, I think we're pretty much set at that position... we need secondary help like there's no tomorrow... if we cant find a good starting SS we're screwed...

Did you see what a difference Bob Sanders meant to the Colt's D through the playoffs? They were a completely different team... I dont' think they were coached up for the playoffs, this guy was killing people and set a tempo and everyone played up to his intensity and were able to do their job because they weren't compensating for someone doing more than they were supposed to... if that makes sense... (im a little drunk)

SS is a key position in our system and we have to find someone who can offer up versatility.[/quote]


I haven't seen Bob Sanders name in a week or two!

They probably told Manning that if he didn't restructure they would cut him and let Bob Sanders play QB and SS.

Bob Sanders' tears cure cancer. Too bad he has never cried...

Re: The Forgotten Buffalo Free Agent
 

[quote=canthetuna;280136]given who we have in daniels and carter, and the draft opportuinties we have, I think we're pretty much set at that position... we need secondary help like there's no tomorrow... if we cant find a good starting SS we're screwed...

Did you see what a difference Bob Sanders meant to the Colt's D through the playoffs? They were a completely different team... I dont' think they were coached up for the playoffs, this guy was killing people and set a tempo and everyone played up to his intensity and were able to do their job because they weren't compensating for someone doing more than they were supposed to... if that makes sense... (im a little drunk)

SS is a key position in our system and we have to find someone who can offer up versatility.[/quote]

how about prioleau who missed all of 06? not bob sanders, but good enough for now.

Re: The Forgotten Buffalo Free Agent
 

tafkas, i like how you sneak Justin smiths name into just about every thread. too much man love going on :)

Re: The Forgotten Buffalo Free Agent
 

Oh well, looks like he's wrapping up a new deal with the Bills

Re: The Forgotten Buffalo Free Agent
 

[QUOTE=TAFKAS;280679]Oh well, looks like he's wrapping up a new deal with the Bills[/QUOTE]

Yep, Done deal.

[url=http://www.rochesterdandc.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070226/SPORTS/70226030]Democrat & Chronicle: Sports[/url]

Re: The Forgotten Buffalo Free Agent
 

4 years, $23 million, includes $13 million guaranteed

Re: The Forgotten Buffalo Free Agent
 

So they ponied up the cash for Kelsay. Will they do the same for Fletcher?

If they're trying to keep that defense intact, I'd say Fletcher stays in Buffalo.

Re: The Forgotten Buffalo Free Agent
 

[QUOTE=TAFKAS;280765]4 years, $23 million, includes $13 million guaranteed[/QUOTE]

That's the kind of deal we gave Coles and Moss. That's pretty crazy. Maybe it's a sign of the deals to come this offseason.

Re: The Forgotten Buffalo Free Agent
 

seems really way too high. i hope that's not what the market looks like this year.

Re: The Forgotten Buffalo Free Agent
 

[QUOTE=That Guy;280779]seems really way too high. i hope that's not what the market looks like this year.[/QUOTE]

Afraid it might

Re: The Forgotten Buffalo Free Agent
 

[QUOTE=TAFKAS;280781]Afraid it might[/QUOTE]

I welcome the change. Maybe it will FORCE us to look to the draft instead of free agency to build a core group of players.

Re: The Forgotten Buffalo Free Agent
 

[quote=Beemnseven;280773]So they ponied up the cash for Kelsay. Will they do the same for Fletcher?

If they're trying to keep that defense intact, I'd say Fletcher stays in Buffalo.[/quote]

Nah, they won't keep Fletcher. They're not trying to keep the D intact as much as they're just trying to keep their younger talent.

Re: The Forgotten Buffalo Free Agent
 

One positive about this and the Saints signing Hollis Thomas is that it shows deals can get done in the last week. I hope we can get one done w/Dock, just not w/that kind of $$.
Anybody know what Thomas signed for?

Re: The Forgotten Buffalo Free Agent
 

[QUOTE=freddyg12;280874]One positive about this and the Saints signing Hollis Thomas is that it shows deals can get done in the last week. I hope we can get one done w/Dock, just not w/that kind of $$.
Anybody know what Thomas signed for?[/QUOTE]

I think I heard 4 year, $12 million with $6 mil upfront