Defensive Tackle
 

In my opinion, we definately need a defensive end, Daniels is crap and is only getting worse due to his age. I dont know what to think about defensive tackle though. Griffin is good, Saleve'a is crap, and Golston is hovering around average. Is Golston good enough to be considered a starter? I think with his play last year, the answer is no, but he is young so he very well might develop into a quality starter. Should we address defensive tackle in this offseason, or let it be and hope it plays out well?

Re: Defensive Tackle
 

I dont think resignin Boschetti is the answer. And if we dont get someone in there to eat up blocks, Fletcher will be unproductive. We definately need to adress the d-line. But as far as Salavea bein crap, I cant force myself to agree with you there. Goldston has a real good upside being young and all.

Re: Defensive Tackle
 

Why'd you title this thread "Defensive Tackle" and then start with "In my opinion, we definately need a defensive end". Interesting

As for your question, I think a strong DT can have a bigger effect on the entire defense more so than a DE can.

Re: Defensive Tackle
 

a new DT who can absorb blockers will take pressure off of everyone on the defense. they will free up the linebackers to make plays, allow the defensive ends to rush easier, thus helping the secondary. a big DT is twice as important to us right now as a new DE.

Re: Defensive Tackle
 

I'll take either one. The d-line play last season was terrible.

Re: Defensive Tackle
 

Hmmm, but we are stronger at the tackle spot than the end spot. Overall I think a tackle would help decrease rushing yards. Yet to effectivley pressure the quarterback everydown a end makes more sense. I'd prefer an elite tackle, but this year the more pressing need is at the end spot.

Re: Defensive Tackle
 

[QUOTE=stu_nna;287231]Hmmm, but we are stronger at the tackle spot than the end spot. Overall I think a tackle would help decrease rushing yards. Yet to effectivley pressure the quarterback everydown a end makes more sense. I'd prefer an elite tackle, but this year the more pressing need is at the end spot.[/QUOTE]

i disagree, i think our DT's are weaker than our DE's. griffen had a bad year last year and is getting a free pass from many because of how good he was a few years ago, and golston did well for a low round rookie but griffen and golston are the same style players, penetrators. neither absorbed blockers and our defense was badly exposed. if we go into the season with the same tackles we are in huge trouble, we can get by with our DE's. a new DT will improve daniels' play, while i doubt a new DE will improve our DT's play. we will still be destroyed by the run

Re: Defensive Tackle
 

[quote=Big C;287237]i disagree, i think our DT's are weaker than our DE's. griffen had a bad year last year and is getting a free pass from many because of how good he was a few years ago, and golston did well for a low round rookie but griffen and golston are the same style players, penetrators. neither absorbed blockers and our defense was badly exposed. if we go into the season with the same tackles we are in huge trouble, we can get by with our DE's. a new DT will improve daniels' play, while i doubt a new DE will improve our DT's play. we will still be destroyed by the run[/quote]
I keep thinking with a middle linebacker known to make tackles, and a with Griffin and Salavae healthy we will have different results. So, i still belive that Cornelius is the real deal.
We gave up alot of rushing yards last year i think Fletcher will really help improve in that area. Yet still without getting pressure on the quarterback our secondary gets ate up. Also with a good pass rush i think alot of opions on Los (carlos) will change. More pressure equals more turnovers, more turnovers lead to more points and a healthier defense. Whadyathink?

Re: Defensive Tackle
 

[QUOTE=stu_nna;287240]I keep thinking with a middle linebacker known to make tackles, and a with Griffin and Salavae healthy we will have different results. So, i still belive that Cornelius is the real deal.
We gave up alot of rushing yards last year i think Fletcher will really help improve in that area. Yet still without getting pressure on the quarterback our secondary gets ate up. Also with a good pass rush i think alot of opions on Los (carlos) will change. More pressure equals more turnovers, more turnovers lead to more points and a healthier defense. Whadyathink?[/QUOTE]

I agree with the general theme, I only disagree with pretty much everyone's assessment of Joe Salave'a to me the guy has never been more than an average player. I like the hard nose, bust your ass guy as much as anyone, but the fact is he's just not that good. He never has been. They need to replace him and they need to replace Griffin in my opinion. I'm sick of guys who can't stay on the field...*cough* Springs and Griffin *cough*

Re: Defensive Tackle
 

This argument has been on going in the Draft Forum. I have taken the position that we need a DE more than a DT although both could use improvement. I think I part company with many in that I rate Golston as an adequate starter and they do not. Also, others take the position that because we spent so much on Carter we have to hope he pans out. I say even if Carter plays better, Daniels and Wynn are over the hill.

Most of the argument is brought on by the 6th overall and wether to take Branch or Adams. My view is that they should split the difference, trade down, and get one of each. However, if they keep the 6th overall, they should take Adams or whoever they rate highest at DE.

My botton line is that 1. We need to improve the DL. 2. This is a multi-year process. 3. Defensive End is the more immediate need.

Re: Defensive Tackle
 

[quote=70Chip;287253]This argument has been on going in the Draft Forum. I have taken the position that we need a DE more than a DT although both could use improvement. I think I part company with many in that I rate Golston as an adequate starter and they do not. Also, others take the position that because we spent so much on Carter we have to hope he pans out. I say even if Carter plays better, Daniels and Wynn are over the hill.

Most of the argument is brought on by the 6th overall and wether to take Branch or Adams. My view is that they should split the difference, trade down, and get one of each. However, if they keep the 6th overall, they should take Adams or whoever they rate highest at DE.

My botton line is that 1. We need to improve the DL. 2. This is a multi-year process. 3. Defensive End is the more immediate need.[/quote]Its true there is no quick fix to our line problem. We need some raw talent in Daniels's spot and Salvae's spot immediately.
I'll have to differ with the thought that Golston is an adequate starter though. If he played a full seasons then we might rank worst than the 06 campain. Golston is an overachiever, a great back up and good to keep our starters fresh.
Overall though good thoughts lets draft both positions and coach em' up to be talented starters.

Re: Defensive Tackle
 

I want Alan Branch more than anyone. He's a 6'6 330lb monster with quick feet, a huge wingspan, and he can play some end too. He would be awesome at plugging the run and eating up blocks, and I think Fletcher could have a huge season playing behind him. If Carter continues his improved pass rush that began coming on at the end of the season, we could be in good shape, and with an improved secondary we could afford to blitz more... I dunno, if we trade down there are good players available too- Moss, Carriker, Spencer. It seems like we debate this everyday, and I always feel torn...

Because if we have Golston and Montgomery, Griffin and S'alavea, and we resigned Boschetti, I don't see us drafting another DT. What to do, what to do??

Re: Defensive Tackle
 

I agree. At first I was hopin for an impact DE. But now that think about it, we really need somebody that can stuff the run! If we can solidify the D up the middle, the edges wouldn't get exposed.

Re: Defensive Tackle
 

[quote=Crat92;287264]I agree. At first I was hopin for an impact DE. But now that think about it, we really need somebody that can stuff the run! If we can solidify the D up the middle, the edges wouldn't get exposed.[/quote]

A lot of talk has gone out about Adams being too light to play against the run
in the NFL, inspite of his huge number of tackles in college. I disagree. The has the skills, obviously, and he will have the size. He's 6'6" and 260 but the guy can press about 360 and is heavily muscled and thin. He could easily put on 15 to 20 lbs and still be the fastest lineman in the draft. Kiper says he's the second best player in the draft. I say he's too good to pass up. Branch's two tackles per game and no sacks really bother me; the numbers are just too low, whether he's double teamed or not.
I wouldn't be too disturbed though if we dropped back just enough to get DE Carriker and a stud DT early in the 2nd. Carriker's a frightening guy, a real physical freak of nature with a brain-- a solid pass rusher and a real big crusher in the running game who's got to be double teamed. He might be one of the more underrated guys likely to go in the first round. With Carriker, we will get the eqivalent of a DT who can rush.

Re: Defensive Tackle
 

[quote=stu_nna;287257]Its true there is no quick fix to our line problem. We need some raw talent in Daniels's spot and Salvae's spot immediately.
I'll have to differ with the thought that Golston is an adequate starter though. If he played a full seasons then we might rank worst than the 06 campain. Golston is an overachiever, a great back up and good to keep our starters fresh.
Overall though good thoughts lets draft both positions and coach em' up to be talented starters.[/quote]


There can be a quick fix to or D-LINE it's called healthy players, PD is fine. Sal is aging, however, I think Golston did a great job when Sal could not go...which was to often. And certainly think he can start....look who was behind him?
What makes you state him as an overachiever...to me that's what you want? I certainly think we have enough underachievers..."AKA" BL,ARCH
My position is DE first, DT second, to be adressed in Draft.

Re: Defensive Tackle
 

It all starts with stopping the run. If you can't stop the run it doesn't matter about the pass rush. You got walk before you run. You have to stop the run before anything else. In 2005 we were strong against the run and we did not have a very good pash rush and we still made it to the second round of the playoffs. Last year we sucked against the rush and we failed to make the playoffs. We need a DT.

Re: Defensive Tackle
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan_nn;287285]There can be a quick fix to or D-LINE it's called healthy players, PD is fine. Sal is aging, however, I think Golston did a great job when Sal could not go...which was to often. And certainly think he can start....look who was behind him?
What makes you state him as an overachiever...to me that's what you want? I certainly think we have enough underachievers..."AKA" BL,ARCH
My position is DE first, DT second, to be adressed in Draft.[/QUOTE]

i agree with some of that but i dont understand how you can say that golston can start, with griffen id assume, when we gave up so much against the run. obviously something was very bad in the middle

Re: Defensive Tackle
 

[quote=Defensewins;287286]It all starts with stopping the run. If you can't stop the run it doesn't matter about the pass rush. You got walk before you run. You have to stop the run before anything else. In 2005 we were strong against the run and we did not have a very good pash rush and we still made it to the second round of the playoffs. Last year we sucked against the rush and we failed to make the playoffs. We need a DT.[/quote]

That's a great point. Which is why I've been saying we should go get Ian Scott from the Bears. He would come pretty cheap, he's still young, and has a non-stop motor. With Scott, Golston, Montgomery, Griffin, S'alavea, and Boschetti there would be plenty of able bodies who could rotate (which Williams loves to do) at the DT position and stay fresh. If we did this we could draft a DE. I wouldn't mind Amobi Okoye in the draft while we're on the subject. He's young, smart, and can play end or DT, plus he's a "super smart character guy."

Re: Defensive Tackle
 

[QUOTE=GMScud;287290]That's a great point. Which is why I've been saying we should go get Ian Scott from the Bears. He would come pretty cheap, he's still young, and has a non-stop motor. With Scott, Golston, Montgomery, Griffin, S'alavea, and Boschetti there would be plenty of able bodies who could rotate (which Williams loves to do) at the DT position and stay fresh. If we did this we could draft a DE. I wouldn't mind Amobi Okoye in the draft while we're on the subject. He's young, smart, and can play end or DT, plus he's a "super smart character guy."[/QUOTE]

Scott's great. He's meeting with Denver today isn't he?

Re: Defensive Tackle
 

[quote=SmootSmack;287292]Scott's great. He's meeting with Denver today isn't he?[/quote]

Yeah, doesn't it feel kinda weird when a guy we could really use actually gets a visit with another team without our front office throwing way to much money at him??? I like the new approach. If we are really interested, we'll get a chance to counter Denver's offer if they make one.

Re: Defensive Tackle
 

I agree with everything you guys have said so far. It all starts up front, and that's where we need the most help. We can't fix the entire front four this season, but we can start. I think we should stand pat at the #6 and take the best player available be it DE or DT. I like Alan Branch, he may not make a lot of tackles, but he eats up blockers for others, and will only get better. We need a quality player at one of those two positions, trading out of #6 might not afford us that opportunity.

Re: Defensive Tackle
 

[quote=BeastsoftheNFCeast;287197]In my opinion, we definately need a defensive end, Daniels is crap and is only getting worse due to his age. I dont know what to think about defensive tackle though. Griffin is good, Saleve'a is crap, and Golston is hovering around average. Is Golston good enough to be considered a starter? I think with his play last year, the answer is no, but he is young so he very well might develop into a quality starter. Should we address defensive tackle in this offseason, or let it be and hope it plays out well?[/quote]The quickest way to get pressure on a QB is to get a great DT. So we should use the 6th pick to get a great DT.

See how that works?

1) DT is more of an impact postion
2) The defensive ends with first round grades are all Carter clones, exception to Adam Carriker from Nebraska who I really like. But even with him, the better value is at TE.

Re: Defensive Tackle
 

[quote=GMScud;287290]That's a great point. Which is why I've been saying we should go get Ian Scott from the Bears. He would come pretty cheap, he's still young, and has a non-stop motor. With Scott, Golston, Montgomery, Griffin, S'alavea, and Boschetti there would be plenty of able bodies who could rotate (which Williams loves to do) at the DT position and stay fresh. If we did this we could draft a DE. I wouldn't mind Amobi Okoye in the draft while we're on the subject. He's young, smart, and can play end or DT, plus he's a "super smart character guy."[/quote]Ian Scott would be a great pickup and exactly what we'd be looking for.

If I'm not mistaken, Blache was still the DC/DL coach in Chicago the year they drafted Ian Scott out of Florida (2003). I'm very surprised he's yet to be brought in for a visit.

Re: Defensive Tackle
 

Seeing as how we are stuck with Carter for at least the next two seasons, I think the biggest draft mistake we could make would be moving foward without him in mind. He's going to get some pressure on the QB, get some help for him inside. If we trade down to get a falling Branch, that's great, but if we stay where we are and get Okoye, that's just as good.

Re: Defensive Tackle
 

[QUOTE=GTripp0012;287312]Seeing as how we are stuck with Carter for at least the next two seasons, I think the biggest draft mistake we could make would be moving foward without him in mind. He's going to get some pressure on the QB, get some help for him inside. If we trade down to get a falling Branch, that's great, but if we stay where we are and get Okoye, that's just as good.[/QUOTE]

I think that Carter can be better as long as we get a good push up the middle kinda like we did in '05...

Re: Defensive Tackle
 

[quote=GTripp0012;287310]Ian Scott would be a great pickup and exactly what we'd be looking for.

If I'm not mistaken, Blache was still the DC/DL coach in Chicago the year they drafted Ian Scott out of Florida (2003). I'm very surprised he's yet to be brought in for a visit.[/quote]

Being a Gator myself, you're not mistaken. I have been watching Scott for years, and he's a heck of a player. And Blache obviously likes what the guy brings to the table. Him and a healthy Griffin, with all the previously mentioned bodies backing him up. He'd be a bargain, and I truly hope we land him. That being said, if we cut Wynn, that leaves us only 2 DE's... Guess we better draft wisely. I say trade down that 6th pick and hope to get Carriker/Spencer/Moss, and get ourselves a 2nd and/or 3rd rounder.

Re: Defensive Tackle
 

ian scott is good, but it doesn't look like we're interested.

Re: Defensive Tackle
 

I love for us to take A DE in the draft....Anderson!!!! But I know we won't. We tock Arch in free agentcy and I was saying no get Chris Hope. Hope had a great season and Arch was just bad!

Re: Defensive Tackle
 

[QUOTE=That Guy;287328]ian scott is good, but it doesn't look like we're interested.[/QUOTE] You are right on both ends....but I would sign Scott and then draft Anderson!

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[quote=RedskinPete;287356]You are right on both ends....but I would sign Scott and then draft Anderson![/quote]

and i really wouldn't have any problems with that. but that doesn't mean it's happening :/. okoye would be better, but there's no stud DE in FA, and without a late first or early 2nd, we wouldn't get anyone of note in the draft there after using the #6-#8 on okoye.

Re: Defensive Tackle
 

[QUOTE=PorterHouse;287200][B]I dont think resignin Boschetti is the answer.[/B] And if we dont get someone in there to eat up blocks, Fletcher will be unproductive. We definately need to adress the d-line. But as far as Salavea bein crap, I cant force myself to agree with you there. Goldston has a real good upside being young and all.[/QUOTE]

I think the only thing the Boschetti signing means is that Renaldo Wynn is as good as gone.

Salave'a should only be counted on as the #3 guy behind the two starters. No way can we lean on him for another 16 whole games.

Re: Defensive Tackle
 

Golston played well for a rookie. Period. To put things in perspective, he played just as good as Griffin but, either of them would benefit from a guy like Alan Branch. Heck, both Daniels and Carter will probably have double digit sacks if we're able to draft him.

Re: Defensive Tackle
 

[QUOTE=EXoffender;287769]Golston played well for a rookie. Period.[/QUOTE]

yet our run defense was ripped to shreds. he isnt the answer. i think the main problem was that neither he nor griffen consumed blockers. i think their playing style is too similar to play together on running downs. i could see golston being the successor for griffen, but the 2 should not play together. if those 2 are our starting tandem next year we are in huge trouble

Re: Defensive Tackle
 

[quote=Big C;287770]yet our run defense was ripped to shreds. he isnt the answer. i think the main problem was that neither he nor griffen consumed blockers. i think their playing style is too similar to play together on running downs. i could see golston being the successor for griffen, but the 2 should not play together. if those 2 are our starting tandem next year we are in huge trouble[/quote]Exactly.

Re: Defensive Tackle
 

I think what you meant is that he played well for a late rounder, which isn't saying a lot.

Marques COLSTON played well for a late rounder.

Re: Defensive Tackle
 

Im not sure how accurate this is but.....I remember hearing something last year that said that part of our trouble with our run D was that teams were consistently running to our WS(?) and that Carter was struggling to do much because if he could force the runer inside Marshall couldnt do crap. Im not so sure that our DTs were the problem....and even if they were eating us up on the inside it was partly due to injury...when Golston and Montgomery stepped in they did a stellar job, and I can see Golston becoming a solid DT, but he is probably just good depth again this year. Although I really like Okoye, and would be ecstatic if we drafted him, I think DE is a bigger issue. PD is old, too old and we need to replace him now, we at least have some talented young depth at DT...and everyone says this wont be a quck fix, well then get some young talent where we need it the most at DE, and let Golston/Montgomery develop, if they don't prove to be starters at least we will still have young depth, and I think we can get another productive season outa CG and JS.

Re: Defensive Tackle
 

[quote=TheMalcolmConnection;287773]I think what you meant is that he played well for a late rounder, which isn't saying a lot.

Marques COLSTON played well for a late rounder.[/quote]Late rounders hardly make the 53-man rosters. Making the roster is saying something and surely beating out other veteran players is saying a lot...

Maybe you missed (watching) a few games or never really watched the play of the DL?

Re: Defensive Tackle
 

Look people, we can no more count on Griffin, Salave'a, Golston, and Montgomery any more than we could afford another season of Archuleta, Kenny Wright and Mike Rumph.

Witness the Tampa Bay game last year. That was the week that Griffin and Salave'a were both real banged up. Result? We were gashed by the Buccaneers for 181 yards rushing.

Golston and Montgomery are nothing more than future replacements for the [I]other[/I] depth guys -- Demetric Evans and Ryan Boschetti.

Re: Defensive Tackle
 

[quote=EXoffender;287791]Late rounders hardly make the 53-man rosters. Making the roster is saying something and surely beating out other veteran players is saying a lot...

Maybe you missed (watching) a few games or never really watched the play of the DL?[/quote]

So what are you saying? When I think someone played "well", I think they made spectacular plays to the benefit of the team. Golston merely better than our other suck-ass backups. While he was a "surprise" and I don't doubt he can only get better, he wasn't good by any means.

Re: Defensive Tackle
 

The word "good" cannot be ascribed to any player on the defensive line last year.

Golston had his moments, but like 90% of the rest of the time he was spread open and buttered, just like the other guys.