JLC: Front Office Rumblings?
 

Cutting the cord with Vinny? [url=http://blog.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/]Redskins Insider[/url] :)

Re: JLC: Front Office Rumblings?
 

I have NEVER been a Viiny fan and he has not done any thing great here! Like when he left the 49ers we[Redskins] are in troubled waters with few draft picks and No money!

Re: JLC: Front Office Rumblings?
 

They would first have to buy a pry bar, big enought to chase VC out from under old Danny Boy's desk, then fire him and his buddies. Now that would be some BREAKIN NEWS!

All kidin it would be nice to have a GM in place that could work with Joe, and build the team of the future the right way. Maybe some change is comin? :food-smil

Re: JLC: Front Office Rumblings?
 

Interesting commentary at the end of the article, JLC says the Skins have competent scouts but the mgmt. structure is the problem. Of course, we all know it's a problem, guess it's a question of; who exactly came up w/the idea to trade for Brandon Loyd?

Re: JLC: Front Office Rumblings?
 

[quote=freddyg12;289247]Interesting commentary at the end of the article, JLC says the Skins have competent scouts but the mgmt. structure is the problem. Of course, we all know it's a problem, guess it's a question of; who exactly came up w/the idea to trade for Brandon Loyd?[/quote]

or T.J Duckett... or Archuletta...

I think the problem up there is that no one guy is calling the personel shots, the blame is spread around, so no one can get singled out for a bad decision. In that case, the normal tendancy is to pass it down the line.

Re: JLC: Front Office Rumblings?
 

[quote=GoSkins!;289251]or T.J Duckett... or Archuletta...

I think the problem up there is that no one guy is calling the personel shots, the blame is spread around, so no one can get singled out for a bad decision. In that case, the normal tendancy is to pass it down the line.[/quote]

What's that old sayin.....SH*T runs down hill? We need a GOOD GM to work with Joe. Not that they got along all that well but something in the fashion of a of BB type, he was GOOD at getting in the talent.

Re: JLC: Front Office Rumblings?
 

[quote=GoSkins!;289251]or T.J Duckett... or Archuletta...

I think the problem up there is that no one guy is calling the personel shots, the blame is spread around, so no one can get singled out for a bad decision. In that case, the normal tendancy is to pass it down the line.[/quote]

yeah, definitely ARch as well.
Duckett I'll exempt fromt that list as he played well enough & was brought in under desparate measures. I don't agree w/the trade, but that's a mgmt. issue, more than a scouting issue.

I realize the 2 - mgmt. & scouting - are interlinked, I just wonder who actually originates the ideas. Loyd & AA are both pros & had been in the nfl for a few years. There was plenty of scouting info out there on them. Yet, Rexi, the Warpath's resident 49er fan, knew more about Loyd than our front office it seems!

Re: JLC: Front Office Rumblings?
 

Well I Clean Vinny's carpets guess id lose a customer :( ;)

Re: JLC: Front Office Rumblings?
 

For any sort of significant change we need to totally restructure the scouting dept. Just getting rid of Vinny isn't going to change very much.

Re: JLC: Front Office Rumblings?
 

Yup. All of the people who touch themselves nightly to the whole GM prospect need to understand that while Vinny might not be the greatest talent scout, he's also an undeserving scapegoat for a number of the front office problems.

Re: JLC: Front Office Rumblings?
 

[QUOTE=freddyg12;289247]Interesting commentary at the end of the article, JLC says the Skins have competent scouts but the mgmt. structure is the problem. Of course, we all know it's a problem, guess it's a question of; who exactly came up w/the idea to trade for Brandon Loyd?[/QUOTE]

That was the most important piece of that article, to me. I know many people have said our scouts are worthless, but I'd have to go on JLC's word here and place the blame with Vinny and/or management.

"...I know the Skins have some very competent scouts in their ranks; it's the personnel paradigm that's awry."

Maybe JLC has a beef with Vinny or management, because he also says the organization is "top-heavy", and that the scouts are not to blame. It kinda sounds like he has some bias, but who knows?

If we do go after a GM, does anyone have any idea about who the candidates would be?

Re: JLC: Front Office Rumblings?
 

a good GM that's allowed to hire and control his side of things would NOT be a bad idea. they've done okay with the high round picks, but the 2nd day and FA stuff has been dreadful overall. (and yes, 2004 was a great FA period, but after 2006, they're batting .500, and that's absolutely TERRIBLE when you're talking about huge contracts and a limited salary cap).

Re: JLC: Front Office Rumblings?
 

I think it way past over due for Vinny to be out... he is like the gm for detroit just pathetic. I can see them going after Charley Casserly

Re: JLC: Front Office Rumblings?
 

[B]BRING BACK CHARLEY CASSERLY[/B]. Talk about a guy who can get it done with Joe Gibbs. Besides wasn't it Casserly who set us up with all those draft picks before he got fired instead of Norv. I am makin it official right now [B][B]BRING BACK CHARLEY[/B].[/B]

Re: JLC: Front Office Rumblings?
 

Don't the Texans have like $20 million in dead cap money due in large part to Casserly's brilliance? And what do they have to show for it.

I think we should hire CC, but not that CC. CrazyCanuck for GM!

Re: JLC: Front Office Rumblings?
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;289303]I think we should hire CC, but not that CC. CrazyCanuck for GM![/QUOTE] But he'd want to pay everyone in Loonies and no free agents would go for that... except Jeff Garcia.

Re: JLC: Front Office Rumblings?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;289303]Don't the Texans have like $20 million in dead cap money due in large part to Casserly's brilliance? And what do they have to show for it.

I think we should hire CC, but not that CC. CrazyCanuck for GM![/quote]

Charley didn't light the world on fire when he was at Houston. But I would welcome him back. He is better than anyone we currently have.

Re: JLC: Front Office Rumblings?
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan69;289307]Charley didn't light the world on fire when he was at Houston. But I would welcome him back. He is better than anyone we currently have.[/QUOTE]

First of all that is debateable and second of all is "better than anyone we currently have" the best standard you can come up with? I'd say we shoot a little higher than "better than anyone we currently have"

Re: JLC: Front Office Rumblings?
 

[QUOTE=TheMalcolmConnection;289271]Yup. All of the people who touch themselves nightly to the whole GM prospect need to understand that while Vinny might not be the greatest talent scout, he's also an undeserving scapegoat for a number of the front office problems.[/QUOTE]You are so right the hole 49er problems were not any of his doing as well!

Re: JLC: Front Office Rumblings?
 

[quote=FRPLG;289329]First of all that is debateable and second of all is "better than anyone we currently have" the best standard you can come up with? I'd say we shoot a little higher than "better than anyone we currently have"[/quote]

Putting together an expansion team is not easy. Personally I think the Texans have drafted good players. David Carr, Dominick Davis, Andre Johnson, Donta Robinson and Demco Ryans I think are good players. And the owner is the one who did not want Bush. Didn't want to pay him so you can't lay that on Charley. Have they put it all together yet? No. But that's not all the GM's fault. I think Charley Casserly is a qualified solid NFL GM who knows the in's and out's of the NFL. Plus he is well respected around the league. If you remember correctly this team was set up real well when he was let go by Snyder. And even Snyder admitted that he got rid of the wrong guy. But someone had to go cause Norv and Charley were not getting along.

So with that being said I would bring the guy back in a heartbeat. Who in our FO has the GM experience and the knowledge that CC has? NO ONE!

Re: JLC: Front Office Rumblings?
 

[quote=skinsfan69;289391]Putting together an expansion team is not easy. Personally I think the Texans have drafted good players. David Carr, Dominick Davis, Andre Johnson, Donta Robinson and Demco Ryans I think are good players. And the owner is the one who did not want Bush. Didn't want to pay him so you can't lay that on Charley. Have they put it all together yet? No. But that's not all the GM's fault. I think Charley Casserly is a qualified solid NFL GM who knows the in's and out's of the NFL. Plus he is well respected around the league. If you remember correctly this team was set up real well when he was let go by Snyder. And even Snyder admitted that he got rid of the wrong guy. But someone had to go cause Norv and Charley were not getting along.

So with that being said I would bring the guy back in a heartbeat. Who in our FO has the GM experience and the knowledge that CC has? NO ONE![/quote]
He has made my point about why CC should come home to DC. The questions would be would The Dan want him back or would he ever even want to come back? How bad did it end with CC?

Re: JLC: Front Office Rumblings?
 

I would like to see us get former Titans GM Floyd Reese. Pacman Jones aside, he has drafted the likes of Steve McNair, Jevon Kearse, Vince Young, Eddie Geroge, LenDale White, Bo Scaife, Ben Troupe, Andre Dyson, Keith Bulluck, Samari Rolle, not to mention some sound trades/FA signings....

He resigned after this past year but recently said on ESPN that he would love to come back to league. This article agrees with me:

[URL="http://www.examiner.com/a-574785%7EReese_is_Skins__missing_piece.html"]Reese is Skins’ missing piece - Examiner.com[/URL]

Re: JLC: Front Office Rumblings?
 

reese would be a good hire.

Re: JLC: Front Office Rumblings?
 

[quote=GMScud;289520]I would like to see us get former Titans GM Floyd Reese. Pacman Jones aside, he has drafted the likes of Steve McNair, Jevon Kearse, Vince Young, Eddie Geroge, LenDale White, Bo Scaife, Ben Troupe, Andre Dyson, Keith Bulluck, Samari Rolle, not to mention some sound trades/FA signings....

He resigned after this past year but recently said on ESPN that he would love to come back to league. This article agrees with me:

[URL="http://www.examiner.com/a-574785%7EReese_is_Skins__missing_piece.html"]Reese is Skins’ missing piece - Examiner.com[/URL][/quote]

Reese is also very qualified. He is a proven GM. Why he is not here makes no sense to me. I would hire him over CC.

Re: JLC: Front Office Rumblings?
 

Floyd Reese may be a good move but not as a traditional GM more of a Scott Poili (sp?) of the Pats or Vinny C possition where he is in charge of scouting and has some influence when it comes to drafting but not who plays or doesn't.

There is one thing that strikes me. Following the Archuleta mess and noting that every single FA picked up this year has either played for the Skins (Ade Jimoh, Ryan Boschetti, Omar Stoutmire, Todd Yoda, Todd Wade, Fred Smoot) or has played with the coaches at a high level (errr - London Fletcher) makes me think there may be something in this shake up theory, and makes me think the Skins coaches have no faith what so ever in the scouting department.

Hmm interesting....

Re: JLC: Front Office Rumblings?
 

Didn't floyd reese get picked up by the Giants to replace Accorsi???

Re: JLC: Front Office Rumblings?
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10;289769]Didn't floyd reese get picked up by the Giants to replace Accorsi???[/QUOTE]

That's Jerry Reese

Re: JLC: Front Office Rumblings?
 

I'm not going to win any popularity points here, but history kinda says that a strong and independent GM might not work all that well here.

Let me get this out of the way up front. I think Vinny is incompetent and should have stayed fired and not brought back when Danny Boy axed Marty Schottenheimer. Not a single word of what follows should be interpreted to mean that Vinny should stay on here.

I just don't think that Joe Gibbs can work for long with a strong and independent GM. Please recall that it was a Gibbs/Beathard feud over roster structure and draft picks that escalated all the way up to JKC's desk and JKC booted Beathard out of town and kept Gibbs on board. Casserley got the job and for the time he and Gibbs overlapped, Gibbs called the shots and Casserley scouted the Plan B free agents (remember those?) There were precious few stellar drafts in that reign. AND when Joe Gibbs packed it in in the early 1990s, he left a team in a horrid state of disrepair - check with Richie Pettibone on that one.

Joe Gibbs is a control freak - that is probably an important factor as to why he is successful as a coach and as a NASCAR owner. But control freaks tend not to work all that well with strong and independent colleagues at the same level that they are. When control freaks were in kindergarten, they used to come home with report cards that said something like "Does not play well with others."

And Lord knows that at the top of the Skins organization chart they have a control freak and a person who believes he too knows lots about "general managing" in the NFL. Anyone taking the Skins GM job will have to navigate the waters between two hugely egotistical and controlling forces; expecting that a person held in high regard around the league would take such a job is looking at the world through rose colored glasses. After all, who are the GMs in Dallas and Oakland?

Re: JLC: Front Office Rumblings?
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan69;289391]Putting together an expansion team is not easy. Personally I think the Texans have drafted good players. David Carr, Dominick Davis, Andre Johnson, Donta Robinson and Demco Ryans I think are good players. And the owner is the one who did not want Bush. Didn't want to pay him so you can't lay that on Charley. Have they put it all together yet? No. But that's not all the GM's fault. I think Charley Casserly is a qualified solid NFL GM who knows the in's and out's of the NFL. Plus he is well respected around the league. If you remember correctly this team was set up real well when he was let go by Snyder. And even Snyder admitted that he got rid of the wrong guy. But someone had to go cause Norv and Charley were not getting along.

So with that being said I would bring the guy back in a heartbeat. Who in our FO has the GM experience and the knowledge that CC has? NO ONE![/QUOTE]

I have a well placed friend that works for the Texans and he told me before Casserly quit the he was going to leave because his hand was forced in drafting #1 pick Mario Williams. Caserly did not want him. Casserly wanted Vince Young and was willing to trade down to get him. The Texans owner forced Casserly so he quit. Demeco Ryans & co were direct Casserly picks. While Casserly has made mistakes like every GM, he would be a great improvemet over Cerratto.
Cerratto must have comprimising pictures of Snyder. Cerratto must go. It is time for a change.

Re: JLC: Front Office Rumblings?
 

[quote=sportscurmudgeon;289782]I'm not going to win any popularity points here, but history kinda says that a strong and independent GM might not work all that well here.

Let me get this out of the way up front. I think Vinny is incompetent and should have stayed fired and not brought back when Danny Boy axed Marty Schottenheimer. Not a single word of what follows should be interpreted to mean that Vinny should stay on here.

I just don't think that Joe Gibbs can work for long with a strong and independent GM. Please recall that it was a Gibbs/Beathard feud over roster structure and draft picks that escalated all the way up to JKC's desk and JKC booted Beathard out of town and kept Gibbs on board. Casserley got the job and for the time he and Gibbs overlapped, Gibbs called the shots and Casserley scouted the Plan B free agents (remember those?) There were precious few stellar drafts in that reign. AND when Joe Gibbs packed it in in the early 1990s, he left a team in a horrid state of disrepair - check with Richie Pettibone on that one.

Joe Gibbs is a control freak - that is probably an important factor as to why he is successful as a coach and as a NASCAR owner. But control freaks tend not to work all that well with strong and independent colleagues at the same level that they are. When control freaks were in kindergarten, they used to come home with report cards that said something like "Does not play well with others."

And Lord knows that at the top of the Skins organization chart they have a control freak and a person who believes he too knows lots about "general managing" in the NFL. Anyone taking the Skins GM job will have to navigate the waters between two hugely egotistical and controlling forces; expecting that a person held in high regard around the league would take such a job is looking at the world through rose colored glasses. After all, who are the GMs in Dallas and Oakland?[/quote]


This is totally accurate. Beathard was effective with a young Joe Gibbs because he stood up to Joe and forced his hand on occassion. Casserly was a HORRIBLE GM, who basically did what Joe wanted. There is no way I would want Casserly back, but I would like an independent GM who can call the shots and be 100% responsible for the draft and free agent acquistions.

Re: JLC: Front Office Rumblings?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;289771]That's Jerry Reese[/quote]

Oddly enough I'm hungry for a Reese's Peanut Butter Cup...

Re: JLC: Front Office Rumblings?
 

[quote=sportscurmudgeon;289782]I'm not going to win any popularity points here, but history kinda says that a strong and independent GM might not work all that well here.

Let me get this out of the way up front. I think Vinny is incompetent and should have stayed fired and not brought back when Danny Boy axed Marty Schottenheimer. Not a single word of what follows should be interpreted to mean that Vinny should stay on here.

I just don't think that Joe Gibbs can work for long with a strong and independent GM. Please recall that it was a Gibbs/Beathard feud over roster structure and draft picks that escalated all the way up to JKC's desk and JKC booted Beathard out of town and kept Gibbs on board. Casserley got the job and for the time he and Gibbs overlapped, Gibbs called the shots and Casserley scouted the Plan B free agents (remember those?) There were precious few stellar drafts in that reign. AND when Joe Gibbs packed it in in the early 1990s, he left a team in a horrid state of disrepair - check with Richie Pettibone on that one.

Joe Gibbs is a control freak - that is probably an important factor as to why he is successful as a coach and as a NASCAR owner. But control freaks tend not to work all that well with strong and independent colleagues at the same level that they are. When control freaks were in kindergarten, they used to come home with report cards that said something like "Does not play well with others."

And Lord knows that at the top of the Skins organization chart they have a control freak and a person who believes he too knows lots about "general managing" in the NFL. Anyone taking the Skins GM job will have to navigate the waters between two hugely egotistical and controlling forces; expecting that a person held in high regard around the league would take such a job is looking at the world through rose colored glasses. After all, who are the GMs in Dallas and Oakland?[/quote]


I remember well. The problems with Joe and BB.
However, look at the RESULTS! YEP.......SUPERBOWLS
I don't agree at all that Joe is a control freak at this point in his career whatsoever, Joe just want's to win, sure didn't need the cash.

Do you think for one minute in the 80's Joe would have turned over the offensive play calling? NEVER. Has Now, at least to a degree.
I think Joe will work with any common sense approach GM out there that is willing to work within a team structure. As it should be.

Get another RING I don't think anyone would care less if they bickered over things or not? DO YOU....LETS RETURN TO GLORY! :)

Re: JLC: Front Office Rumblings?
 

I really disagree about Gibbs being a control freak. He delegates very heavily, there is a reason why he always has one of the biggest staffs in the league. He hires people he trusts and lets them have near total autonomy, that sure doesn't sound like a control freak to me.

Re: JLC: Front Office Rumblings?
 

He's definitely not a control freak when it comes to his NASCAR team.

Re: JLC: Front Office Rumblings?
 

[quote=Schneed10;289794]Oddly enough I'm hungry for a Reese's Peanut Butter Cup...[/quote]


I'm going to leave that one alone.

Re: JLC: Front Office Rumblings?
 

[quote=Defensewins;289783]I have a well placed friend that works for the Texans and he told me before Casserly quit the he was going to leave because his hand was forced in drafting #1 pick Mario Williams. Caserly did not want him. Casserly wanted Vince Young and was willing to trade down to get him. The Texans owner forced Casserly so he quit. Demeco Ryans & co were direct Casserly picks. While Casserly has made mistakes like every GM, he would be a great improvemet over Cerratto.
Cerratto must have comprimising pictures of Snyder. Cerratto must go. It is time for a change.[/quote]

Thanks for that info. I was wondering why Casserly sort of just left real quickly.

Re: JLC: Front Office Rumblings?
 

[quote=Mattyk72;289867]I really disagree about Gibbs being a control freak. He delegates very heavily, there is a reason why he always has one of the biggest staffs in the league. He hires people he trusts and lets them have near total autonomy, that sure doesn't sound like a control freak to me.[/quote]

I agree that he is a control freak. He delegates on defense. But not on offense. But it's not a bad thing.

Re: JLC: Front Office Rumblings?
 

A true control freak wouldn't delegate anything.

Re: JLC: Front Office Rumblings?
 

[quote=skinsfan69;289898]I agree that he is a control freak. He delegates on defense. But not on offense. But it's not a bad thing.[/quote]

How can you say that? He is the head coach. He comes from an offensive coaching line and likes to call the offensive plays. THE FIRST YEAR HE HAD TROUBLE CALLING THE PLAYS HE HIRES AL SAUNDERS!!!!! This is a coach who made the playoffs calling the offense last year and has won 3 superbowls doing it in the past. A control freak could not do that. Period.

Re: JLC: Front Office Rumblings?
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan69;289391]Putting together an expansion team is not easy. Personally I think the Texans have drafted good players. David Carr, Dominick Davis, Andre Johnson, Donta Robinson and Demco Ryans I think are good players. [B]And the owner is the one who did not want Bush. Didn't want to pay him so you can't lay that on Charley. [/B]Have they put it all together yet? No. But that's not all the GM's fault. I think Charley Casserly is a qualified solid NFL GM who knows the in's and out's of the NFL. Plus he is well respected around the league. If you remember correctly this team was set up real well when he was let go by Snyder. And even Snyder admitted that he got rid of the wrong guy. But someone had to go cause Norv and Charley were not getting along.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Defensewins]I have a well placed friend that works for the Texans and he told me before Casserly quit the [B]he was going to leave because his hand was forced in drafting #1 pick Mario Williams. Caserly did not want him. Casserly wanted Vince Young and was willing to trade down to get him. [/B]The Texans owner forced Casserly so he quit. Demeco Ryans & co were direct Casserly picks. While Casserly has made mistakes like every GM, he would be a great improvemet over Cerratto.[/QUOTE]

Wow. If these statements are true, then Casserly hasn't deserved the a** reaming he's been taking ever since that draft selection. I haven't heard that anywhere else. You would think that the moment Casserly left the offices of the Houston Texans that would have been his very first statement to the media.

And sportscurmudgeon wrote about was I was thinking before I read his post. Any person that is hired with the title of GM must gear up in a suit of armor and nails because there will truly be a Clash of the Titans when there are open disagreements with Joe Gibbs.

That's why I firmly believe there will [B][U]NEVER [/U][/B]be a general manager as long as Joe Gibbs is associated with this franchise, even after he steps down as head coach. Because he's headed from the sidelines right to the owner's box next to Sndyer after this -- and his title of Team President will stay.

Now, I could be wrong and when Gibbs says "that's it, I quit" he really means it, and walks away from Redskin Park for good. Only then will there be a shot for an outside GM, but that's assuming Snyder is ready to hand over all control to someone other than him or Joe Gibbs. It'll take a whole lot for that to happen.