Skins need to free up cap room
 

according to CC's cap sheets we have about 9.7 mil of space. With Arch and Patten released, we now have about 5.3 mil in space. We signed Wade for two years 6.2 mil contract. Lets lowball it and assume he only gets 2 mil this year. That leaves 3.3 mil left in space. Yoder, Boschetti, and Stoutmire are vets so they should get a decent amount, lets lowball again and say they get 2 mil between the three of them. That is 1.3 mil left in space. Derrick frost signed is getting 850K, which is probably about (lowballing again) 300k more than whoever he knocks off the roster. That is 1 mil left in space even after lowballing everything, and without drafting anyone. On top of freeing up space for the draft, we should have at least 1 mil extra in case anything happens durring the regular season and we need to sign more people. And it looks as if we still want to sign a starting gaurd, not have Wade be the starter due to us bringing in Zach Piller. It doesnt seem like there are enough people that can restructure to bring in Bly who I believe has a contract of over 4 mil this year. As I see it, Wynn, Daniels, Collins, and Maybe Rabach are the only people who look like restructuring can make an impact, but it doesnt look to be enough to bring in Bly, it looks just to be enough to not go over the cap.

Edit- I dont know why I didnt think of this, but Springs being released and taking a paycut, and Bly taking a paycut this year might be able to free up enough space, but I dont think that will happen.

Re: Skins need to free up cap room
 

[quote=BeastsoftheNFCeast;290384]according to CC's cap sheets we have about 9.7 mil of space. With Arch and Patten released, we now have about 5.3 mil in space. We signed Wade for two years 6.2 mil contract. Lets lowball it and assume he only gets 2 mil this year. That leaves 3.3 mil left in space. Yoder, Boschetti, and Stoutmire are vets so they should get a decent amount, lets lowball again and say they get 2 mil between the three of them. That is 1.3 mil left in space. Derrick frost signed is getting 850K, which is probably about (lowballing again) 300k more than whoever he knocks off the roster. That is 1 mil left in space even after lowballing everything, and without drafting anyone. On top of freeing up space for the draft, we should have at least 1 mil extra in case anything happens durring the regular season and we need to sign more people. And it looks as if we still want to sign a starting gaurd, not have Wade be the starter due to us bringing in Zach Piller. It doesnt seem like there are enough people that can restructure to bring in Bly who I believe has a contract of over 4 mil this year. As I see it, Wynn, Daniels, Collins, and Maybe Rabach are the only people who look like restructuring can make an impact, but it doesnt look to be enough to bring in Bly, it looks just to be enough to not go over the cap.

Edit- I dont know why I didnt think of this, but Springs being released and taking a paycut, and Bly taking a paycut this year might be able to free up enough space, but I dont think that will happen.[/quote]

Your math on Archuleta and Patten is off.

CC's cap sheets include Archuleta on the books for $2.4 million and Patten on the books for $3.2 million. Archuleta's dead cap hit is $4.5 million, so that's $2.1 million more than he was on the books for. And Patten's dead cap hit is $3.5 million, which is only $300K more than he was on the books for.

So $9.7 million of room, minus Archuleta's incremental hit of $2.1, minus Patten's incremental hit of $300K, equals $7.3 million in room, not the $5.3 you quoted.

Then layer in the Frost (500K beyond the rule of 51), Yoder (500K beyond the rule of 51), Boschetti (500K beyond the rule of 51), and Stoutmire (500K beyond the rule of 51). Don't forget, all of those guys are signing for around the vet minimum, but Frost isn't the only one that has the rule of 51 applied. I'd say between the 4 of them, they make up $2 million.

Remember, everytime we add somebody, we're bumping a young guy's salary out of the top 51. So if Stoutmire signs for the vet minimum of $800K, we bump a young guy worth $300K out of the top 51. So the damage for each of those guys is likely only $500K or so.

So $7.3 million minus $2 million, I come up with $5.3 million in room.

Then there's Wade, who probably takes up $2.3 million. Leaves us with about $3.0 million.

That's plenty of space for rookies. If we needed more (for Bly), we can still shed Renaldo Wynn or Todd Collins.

We're fine.

Re: Skins need to free up cap room
 

I was under the impression cutting Patten saved us some money, I think $750,000? I know it isn't alot, but why did it cost us money to cut him? Good work on everything else.

Re: Skins need to free up cap room
 

[quote=skinsfan242;290397]I was under the impression cutting Patten saved us some money, I think $750,000? I know it isn't alot, but why did it cost us money to cut him? Good work on everything else.[/quote]

Actually you could be right. I've heard La Canfora quote that $750K in savings before too. There must be some tricky nuances with his contract, perhaps some of those likely-to-be-earned incentives. CC would probably know. If we're saving $750K instead of taking a $300K hit, then add $1 million onto my numbers, and figure we've got $4 million in room right now.

The other thing, if the 'Skins designated Patten as a post-June 1 release, then we'd save even more than that. JLC will probably have more details on Patten at some point.

Re: Skins need to free up cap room
 

[quote=Schneed10;290395]Your math on Archuleta and Patten is off.

CC's cap sheets include Archuleta on the books for $2.4 million and Patten on the books for $3.2 million. Archuleta's dead cap hit is $4.5 million, so that's $2.1 million more than he was on the books for. And Patten's dead cap hit is $3.5 million, which is only $300K more than he was on the books for.

So $9.7 million of room, minus Archuleta's incremental hit of $2.1, minus Patten's incremental hit of $300K, equals $7.3 million in room, not the $5.3 you quoted.

Then layer in the Frost (500K beyond the rule of 51), Yoder (500K beyond the rule of 51), Boschetti (500K beyond the rule of 51), and Stoutmire (500K beyond the rule of 51). Don't forget, all of those guys are signing for around the vet minimum, but Frost isn't the only one that has the rule of 51 applied. I'd say between the 4 of them, they make up $2 million.

Remember, everytime we add somebody, we're bumping a young guy's salary out of the top 51. So if Stoutmire signs for the vet minimum of $800K, we bump a young guy worth $300K out of the top 51. So the damage for each of those guys is likely only $500K or so.

So $7.3 million minus $2 million, I come up with $5.3 million in room.

Then there's Wade, who probably takes up $2.3 million. Leaves us with about $3.0 million.

That's plenty of space for rookies. If we needed more (for Bly), we can still shed Renaldo Wynn or Todd Collins.

We're fine.[/quote]


I might be missing something but CC's cap sheets says the release fee for Patten this year is 5.3 and his salary is 3.0, which has a difference of 2.3. I heard that arch's hit is 4.5 which is 2.1 more than his salary for this year. You add 2.3 and 2.1 and subtract it from 9.7 and you get 5.3.

And we already 2 players that counted towards the rule of 51. So now we are 4 players short of filling a full roster. I added 5 players so we only subtract one player that gets kicked off, so 4 of those players full contracts counts and the remaining one has 300k or so subtracted off his contract.

My earlier numbers were generous, in reality all the players besides Wade should get around 800k. Wade should probably really get closer to 2.6 mil. That is 5.5 mil more off the cap (800k*3-300k+2.6mil). That is 200k over the cap with no draft picks signed, no starting Gaurd (and its not Wade, we are shopping for others), and not many options to restructure much money.

Re: Skins need to free up cap room
 

Vet min contracts count the same amount as the minimum contract for a 2 year veteran, which is $435,000. They do this so teams are more encouraged to sign veteran players.

Re: Skins need to free up cap room
 

I just did a cap sheets update (3/22).

I have us at $3.8M in cap room. This includes everything (Arch, Patten, Frost, etc.) except for Stoutmire.

I have Patten down for a $5.3M deadcap hit. I had his cap number at $3M, resulting in a $2.3M net increase. Part of the deadcap hit is a $3M signing bonus due this year. But if I'm wrong and that money was not guaranteed, it would bring his deadcap hit down to $2.3M resulting in a $700 savings like others have mentioned.

Re: Skins need to free up cap room
 

[quote=CrazyCanuck;290448]I just did a cap sheets update (3/22).

I have us at $3.8M in cap room. This includes everything (Arch, Patten, Frost, etc.) except for Stoutmire.

I have Patten down for a $5.3M deadcap hit. I had his cap number at $3M, resulting in a $2.3M net increase. Part of the deadcap hit is a $3M signing bonus due this year. But if I'm wrong and that money was not guaranteed, it would bring his deadcap hit down to $2.3M resulting in a $700 savings like others have mentioned.[/quote]

I'm sorry CC, I just dont see how thats possible. Did you also count Wades contract? I know I'm probably wrong cause ur the cap guru but I just dont see how thats possible to have that much in cap room. 2.1 for arch, 2.3 for Patten, .435x3=1.305 for Boschetti, stoutmire, and yoder, .850 for Frost, approx 2.5 for Wade, and Subtract apporx .350 from the guy that got cut. 2.1+2.3+1.3+.9+2.5-.4=8.7 We had 9.7, subtract 8.7 and that's 1mil. Even without having Stoutmire, that means that you dont subtract .4, so his addition of .35 doesnt really impact it that much. Are there any rules that I am not aware of (I just learned that vet mins count as .435, anything else like that?)? Are you using the rule of 51 because I am treating the cap as if it were the regular season?

Re: Skins need to free up cap room
 

Dudes, u guys re giving me a headache.. Too confusing..

Re: Skins need to free up cap room
 

i always love to see how the skins push off cap hell. Its so much fun.

Re: Skins need to free up cap room
 

[quote=BigSKINBauer;290459]i always love to see how the skins push off cap hell. Its so much fun.[/quote]Not only are they using creative techniques to free up space now, they can also do it to free up space for later.

Oh those crazy Redskin capologists.

I agree with Beasts of the East, having 3 million remaining under the cap after taking ~4 million in hits and making about 6 value signings does seem a bit questionable.

But cutting Wynn frees up like 3 million if we need it.

It would be nice to let the guy play out his contract here. He definately earned every dollar with his pay. Let him walk after this year. It's the best for all parties involved.

Re: Skins need to free up cap room
 

Then again, I was ignoring the rule of 51 credits. These credits wipe out MOST of the value of those smaller contracts from the cap. It is plausible that we have about 3 mil remaining.

I stand corrected...by myself.

Re: Skins need to free up cap room
 

all i know is, our capologist needs a raise

Re: Skins need to free up cap room
 

[quote=BeastsoftheNFCeast;290454]I'm sorry CC, I just dont see how thats possible. Did you also count Wades contract? I know I'm probably wrong cause ur the cap guru but I just dont see how thats possible to have that much in cap room. 2.1 for arch, 2.3 for Patten, .435x3=1.305 for Boschetti, stoutmire, and yoder, .850 for Frost, approx 2.5 for Wade, and Subtract apporx .350 from the guy that got cut. 2.1+2.3+1.3+.9+2.5-.4=8.7 We had 9.7, subtract 8.7 and that's 1mil. Even without having Stoutmire, that means that you dont subtract .4, so his addition of .35 doesnt really impact it that much. Are there any rules that I am not aware of (I just learned that vet mins count as .435, anything else like that?)? Are you using the rule of 51 because I am treating the cap as if it were the regular season?[/quote]

Yeah Wade is in the numbers, CC has him down for a 3-Year deal worth $4.5 million, no signing bonus. The 2007 cap hit is $720K. That makes up a big portion of the difference.

Re: Skins need to free up cap room
 

schneed, if the skins want dre bly here this season, do the numbers work?

Re: Skins need to free up cap room
 

[quote=dmek25;290484]schneed, if the skins want dre bly here this season, do the numbers work?[/quote]

It really depends on a couple things:

1) What does Todd Wade's contract look like? JLC reported in the post that it was 2 years, worth somewhere around $3 million a year. CC is reporting 3 years worth about $1.5 million a year. CC usually goes straight to the NFLPA site for his info, I think. Maybe he can comment.

2) Was Patten a post-June 1 release, or not? If not, was that $3 million payment a guaranteed payment, or was it a roster bonus of some sort? So we need a little more info on Patten before we know the hit we're taking for him.

Now, CC's sheets say we have $3.8 million in room, probably about $3.3 after we factor in Stoutmire. But those numbers include the worst-case scenario on Patten, and a best-case scenario on Wade. So we could have as much as $6 million in room if it's best-case for both Patten and Wade. Or we could have $1 million in room if it's worst-case on both. CC's numbers fall in the middle of that range, so chances are, they're right. $3.3 million in current cap room is a safe assumption.

That would be enough for rookies, but probably not enough for Bly. We could create the room for Bly if we wanted though; we can ditch Todd Collins to create $1.2 million, or we can ditch Renaldo Wynn to create $2.5 million.

Re: Skins need to free up cap room
 

I refuse to believe if we were in such a bad cap position we would have cut Patten to take an EXTRA 2.3 million cap hit. It makes no sense at all. I beleive CC's numbers are right, but i refuse to believe we would cut patten and take a EXTRA hit. It is not like his contract was mind boggling, it was 5 years 13 million. Patten had to save us money (although not alot), no question in my mind. The 3 million had to be a roster bonus. As for Wade it is a 3 year deal, but if he plays 80% of the snaps it gets voided after 2. This was done to spread the cap hit. There was also no signing bonus, the Skins just Guarnteed 4.25 million of the deal.

Re: Skins need to free up cap room
 

[quote=skinsfan242;290500]I refuse to believe if we were in such a bad cap position we would have cut Patten to take an EXTRA 2.3 million cap hit. It makes no sense at all. I beleive CC's numbers are right, but i refuse to believe we would cut patten and take a EXTRA hit. It is not like his contract was mind boggling, it was 5 years 13 million. Patten had to save us money (although not alot), no question in my mind. The 3 million had to be a roster bonus. As for Wade it is a 3 year deal, but if he plays 80% of the snaps it gets voided after 2. This was done to spread the cap hit. There was also no signing bonus, the Skins just Guarnteed 4.25 million of the deal.[/quote]

How can there be no signing bonus but 4.25mil is guarenteed? Also where did you get that 80% thing from, I'm not doubting it, I just want to know where to go to get info.

Re: Skins need to free up cap room
 

Just because something is guarenteed it doesn't mean he got anything to sign. It just means if we cut him we it all hits the cap.

[url=http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/teams/report/WAS/10080352]Team Reports | NFL Football at CBS SportsLine.com[/url]

Re: Skins need to free up cap room
 

[quote=skinsfan242;290500]I refuse to believe if we were in such a bad cap position we would have cut Patten to take an EXTRA 2.3 million cap hit. It makes no sense at all. I beleive CC's numbers are right, but i refuse to believe we would cut patten and take a EXTRA hit. It is not like his contract was mind boggling, it was 5 years 13 million. Patten had to save us money (although not alot), no question in my mind. The 3 million had to be a roster bonus. As for Wade it is a 3 year deal, but if he plays 80% of the snaps it gets voided after 2. This was done to spread the cap hit. There was also no signing bonus, the Skins just Guarnteed 4.25 million of the deal.[/quote]

I see, thanks for the info on Wade.

Then that means CC's numbers are correct on Wade.

And you're probably right on Patten. I don't think the Skins make a move to cut Patten unless they're clearing cap space by doing so.

If that's the case, we're sitting here with about $6.5 million in space. So yeah, we can fit Bly in along with our rookies.

Re: Skins need to free up cap room
 

Cap Sheets Reconciliation

Patten - $2.3M extra
Arch - $2.2M extra
Frost - $500K incremental
Wade - $400K incremental
Yoder - $300K incremental
Tucker - $200K incremental
Boschetti - $200K incremental
Jimoh - $50K extra


Total - $6.15M extra
Starting cap room - $9.7M
Remaining cap room - about $3.55M (I have us at $3.8M)

Possible changes:
- Patten's bonus - As I stated in an earlier post, it is possible the $3M SB due this year is not guaranteed, which would add $3M to our cap space. Plus he may have been designated a June 1 cut which would push more money to 2008.

- Wade signing bonus - NFLPA reports it as a 3-year deal. I haven't seen a signing bonus for him yet, but whatever it is, divide it by 3.

- Stoutmire - signed a 1-year deal.

Re: Skins need to free up cap room
 

Thanks for the info! I'm think they cut him so the didn't have to pay that to him.

Re: Skins need to free up cap room
 

Can someone please post a link to CC's cap space page. I want to put it up as a resource on my Blog.

Re: Skins need to free up cap room
 

if there was a 3 mil roster bonus for patten, and it was not part of the signing bonus, then we should be sitting pretty. Also JLC and PFT had some bad info on wades contract, so that should add some more space to what I said earlier. Sorry, this thread was actually pointless, I didnt have the write info on Patten or Wade. But nonetheless, I think a great move would be to try to get Collins to go for the vet min, that way even though his paycut is only half a mil, the cap cut is one mil and we dont have to sign any more players. And we are obviously going to restructure Wynn's contract.

edit-CC's cap sheets are on the second scroll down bar from the left on the top of the home page.

Re: Skins need to free up cap room
 

[quote=Skin Patrol;290633]Can someone please post a link to CC's cap space page. I want to put it up as a resource on my Blog.[/quote]

[URL]http://www.thewarpath.net/WarpathRedskinsCap.htm[/URL]

Re: Skins need to free up cap room
 

I did another update today (3/24).

- I changed Patten's deadcap hit from $5.3M to $2.3M. This is more consistent with what others have been reporting.

- I added the signing bonus for Wade ($3.5M as reported by PCinOZ).

This brings our current cap room to $5.5M.

Re: Skins need to free up cap room
 

so if the skins really want Dre Bly, there is cap room. does anyone here think that is going to happen?

Re: Skins need to free up cap room
 

[QUOTE=dmek25;290908]so if the skins really want Dre Bly, there is cap room. does anyone here think that is going to happen?[/QUOTE]

Yes.

Re: Skins need to free up cap room
 

[quote=CrazyCanuck;290912]Yes.[/quote]

Me too.

Re: Skins need to free up cap room
 

[quote=CrazyCanuck;290900]I did another update today (3/24).

- I changed Patten's deadcap hit from $5.3M to $2.3M. This is more consistent with what others have been reporting.

- I added the signing bonus for Wade ($3.5M as reported by PCinOZ).

This brings our current cap room to $5.5M.[/quote]$5.5 plus a close to league min Stoutmire signing?

Not bad at all.

I would use some of our late round picks to add TE and OL depth, and just generally try to find players who could add wrinkles to our offense.

Brian Leonard is a prospect that intrigues me, but we probably won't be in position to draft him. One thing that the late rounds are very good for is picking up quality RB depth. I wouldn't be opposed to adding a RB and carrying 4 into the season.

Re: Skins need to free up cap room
 

Isn't the Bly talk dead? I hope so, I bet the broncos want Snyders firstborn. Anyways, we always walk the tightrope called the salary cap. We'll be fine.

Re: Skins need to free up cap room
 

[QUOTE=CrazyCanuck;290900]I did another update today (3/24).

- I changed Patten's deadcap hit from $5.3M to $2.3M. This is more consistent with what others have been reporting.

- I added the signing bonus for Wade ($3.5M as reported by PCinOZ).

This brings our current cap room to $5.5M.[/QUOTE]

I also added Stoutmire. His salary for 2007 is $720K, but he qualifies for the vet min of $435K.

Re: Skins need to free up cap room
 

[quote=Schneed10;290915]Me too.[/quote]

Add me in.

Re: Skins need to free up cap room
 

You have Archuleta's cap hit on the sheets at $4 million. You didn't add in the extra $500,000 we paid him with the trade.

Re: Skins need to free up cap room
 

Also, We dont actually have that much in space, the rule of 51 is applied to that so we about 3/4 of a mil less.

Re: Skins need to free up cap room
 

[QUOTE=steveo395;290967]You have Archuleta's cap hit on the sheets at $4 million. You didn't add in the extra $500,000 we paid him with the trade.[/QUOTE]

Noted. Thanks.