What are we going to do at DE?
 

Its pretty apparant that we will not draft a DE with the 6th overall pick (but we might if we trade down), how will we address this problem. With Daniels, a 34 year old who sucked last year with 3 sacks and 27 tackles (thats less than 3 tackles every 2 games), starting, and our backups being horrible, how will we manage with such a weakness? The only thing I can think of is trading down and picking up a 2nd rounder, and drafting a DE in the 1st or 2nd and a DT in the first or 2nd. That might solidify our line. And if we pick Landry, our DT's might be ok if Golston turns out to be a stud, but there is no way our DE's will be ok.

Re: What are we going to do at DE?
 

Drafting an end won't matter, because as Coach Gibbs has stated, there isn't really a starting position on the team where a rookie could come in and perform better than the established vets... :laughing2

Re: What are we going to do at DE?
 

Rotate Daniel and Wynn, Golston put on 30 lbs, and let our dline play how they always played. Against the run and absorbing blockers so the blitz can pressure the quarterback. With much more depth in the secondary this year it will allow Williams to actually run his scheme.

I really don't feel Dline is as important as it's being made out to be. The Redskins have a ton of talent on both sides of the ball. Stay pat, take a stud, and prepare for another top 10 D.

BTW, those interested in drafting a DE, you have to go back to 2002 before you find any ends who have done much of anything in the NFL. That year was huge, Peppers, Charles Grant, and Freeney. Busts happen far too much at that position for me to want to invest the amount of money required for the 6th overall pick.

Re: What are we going to do at DE?
 

Don't rule out the possibility of us nabbing either Landry or Okoye and then a DE in addition in round 2 or 3. We signed Smoot and David Macklin for a reason; I think there's a good chance the team unloads Shawn Springs for a 2nd or 3rd round pick somehow.

That move could be to target a G or a DE.

Re: What are we going to do at DE?
 

[quote=Daseal;302700]Rotate Daniel and Wynn, Golston put on 30 lbs, and let our dline play how they always played. Against the run and absorbing blockers so the blitz can pressure the quarterback. With much more depth in the secondary this year it will allow Williams to actually run his scheme.

I really don't feel Dline is as important as it's being made out to be. The Redskins have a ton of talent on both sides of the ball. Stay pat, take a stud, and prepare for another top 10 D.

BTW, those interested in drafting a DE, you have to go back to 2002 before you find any ends who have done much of anything in the NFL. That year was huge, Peppers, Charles Grant, and Freeney. Busts happen far too much at that position for me to want to invest the amount of money required for the 6th overall pick.[/quote]

Wait, were u suggesting that golston put on 30lbs or were u saying that he did? And even if we rotate Daniels and Wynn, that doesnt matter, they will both be 34 and they both sucked last year, so this year Im not expecting anything different.

Re: What are we going to do at DE?
 

Yeah Daseal, what's up with that Golston should magically put on 30 pounds suggestion? Are you suggesting he just get really fat? Because putting on 30 pounds of muscle in 5 months is pretty damn hard, and darn near impossible when you consider how hard it will be to keep the weight on through the August training camp heat.

Re: What are we going to do at DE?
 

Geez it's like like Golston is some chump, he was listed at 292 last year. If he can put on about 10lbs he'll be fine. Any more would probably hurt his quickness and stamina.

Re: What are we going to do at DE?
 

Since the days of Dexter Manley we've never had a stud DE that was a consistent QB killer. It wasn't a big deal in '04 and '05 when we had a top 10 defense but the lack of quality in the secondary as well as the significant dropoff of Marshall last year made it seem like it was a desperate need.

If we draft Landry, tweak the scheme a little to help Rogers and have a healthy Springs and Smoot we will get to the QB more with what we have. Last year receivers were running free and QBs had all day to find them.

With rare exceptions (Freeney, Merriman, etc.) most teams don't have a QB killer and rely on coverage or blitz/coverage sacks. Grilliams relies on blitz/coverage sacks moreso than 4 man rush with DT or DE sacks and success of his scheme is dictated by a combination of pressure and coverage..

Re: What are we going to do at DE?
 

I like the idea I heard earlier this spring. Draft a DE and have the option to move Daniels to DT. I think GIbbs may be telling the truth, there may be no starting position, but the way the Skins are going to compete is with depth. Coach Williams has plenty of different pacakages. Using people to their strengths and the right amount of substitution mixed with the fact we will have a stronger LB core and that the secondary has removed the training wheels the focus should remain at the D-Line. They are the oldest group and (no pun intended) the first line of defense to which everything can go wrong. I would approach this season expecting Daniels/Wynn will retire next year and it is imperative to get a guy into the system now.

Draft a D-Lineman. One who can stop the run/pass rush. I say Adams, or Okoye or a later 1st rounder.

If Daniels moved to the inside that would surely remedy the lineup to having to depend on Golston who is undersized. Montgomery had my initial support but he is not the one.

What would it take to switch to a 3-4 defense ???

Re: What are we going to do at DE?
 

[quote=Daseal;302700]Rotate Daniel and Wynn, Golston put on 30 lbs, and let our dline play how they always played. Against the run and absorbing blockers so the blitz can pressure the quarterback. With much more depth in the secondary this year it will allow Williams to actually run his scheme.

I really don't feel Dline is as important as it's being made out to be. The Redskins have a ton of talent on both sides of the ball. Stay pat, take a stud, and prepare for another top 10 D.

BTW, those interested in drafting a DE, you have to go back to 2002 before you find any ends who have done much of anything in the NFL. That year was huge, Peppers, Charles Grant, and Freeney. Busts happen far too much at that position for me to want to invest the amount of money required for the 6th overall pick.[/quote]
I agree but it seemed last year that every team knew where our blitz where coming from and picked them up about 99% of the time.

Re: What are we going to do at DE?
 

One position no one is talking about drafting is linebacker. I think Fletcher will play well but whos gonna take his place when he retires, I think hes 32 years old already. Plus we have little depth at the position. Im not saying draft one with the 6th pick, but if we trade down it would be wise to pick one. trust me i know everything

Re: What are we going to do at DE?
 

[QUOTE=bigm29;302754]One position no one is talking about drafting is linebacker. I think Fletcher will play well but whos gonna take his place when he retires, I think hes 32 years old already. Plus we have little depth at the position. Im not saying draft one with the 6th pick, but if we trade down it would be wise to pick one. trust me i know everything[/QUOTE]

Well, there's talk that Lance Briggs may not be out of the question just yet.

Even so, the linebackers are set this year with Washington, Fletcher, and McIntosh/Marshall. The problems along the D-line far outweigh the need for a long-term project to replace London Fletcher.

Re: What are we going to do at DE?
 

I will be pissed if we trade for Briggs

Re: What are we going to do at DE?
 

Part of the reason that I want to draft a stud d-lineman (like I hope Okoye will be) is that it will take some of the pressure off of Carter and he'll be a more effective pass rusher. He started to look really good at the end of the season and I don't see any reason that he he can't be even better this year; especially if he has some help right next to him.

Re: What are we going to do at DE?
 

I heard Charles Mann was at Redskins Park for a workout yesterday...

I think Okoye could be a DE/DT tweener if we draft him. He's got good burst and is very quick for his 298lb frame. Man I hope we land him.

Re: What are we going to do at DE?
 

There is absolutely NO DOUBT that we need a DE in the draft. Taking Landry is DUMB because we don't need a safety as bad as we need DL help. The ultimate scenario is if we can trade down and get Okoye at 9 or so, then pick up a DE with the pick we get from that deal.
If we do not trade down, I feel we will still have at least 1 hole to fill. DE is incredibly weak with only Carter being a viable option. He was only OK last year, so not even Carter is entrenched in this position...it needs help bad.

Re: What are we going to do at DE?
 

[quote=GMScud;302770][B]I heard Charles Mann was at Redskins Park for a[/B] [B]workout yesterday...[/B]

I think Okoye could be a DE/DT tweener if we draft him. He's got good burst and is very quick for his 298lb frame. Man I hope we land him.[/quote]
whats sad is right now he would probably get some playing time

Re: What are we going to do at DE?
 

[QUOTE=dmek25;302786]whats sad is right now he would probably get some playing time[/QUOTE]

Okoye's frame reminds me more of a DE than a DL, but he's only 19 and hasn't "filled out" all the way yet. I don't care where we put him, I firmly believe Okoye is one of those special picks that you'll look back and go DAMN IT if you don't draft him.

Re: What are we going to do at DE?
 

I'm hoping we pick up one of my HOkies in the later rounds - Noland Burchette. He's a little small - 6'2, 260 - but is a disciplined DE that could earn some time as a pass rushing right de.

Re: What are we going to do at DE?
 

[QUOTE=freddyg12;302794]I'm hoping we pick up one of my HOkies in the later rounds - Noland Burchette. He's a little small - 6'2, 260 - but is a disciplined DE that could earn some time as a pass rushing right de.[/QUOTE]

Any help is good help. Wynn and Daniels are not cutting it.

Re: What are we going to do at DE?
 

[quote=jsarno;302798]Any help is good help. Wynn and Daniels are not cutting it.[/quote]

yeah, they're old but they're also both team leaders. I hope we can keep both of them 1 more year, then let them bow out gracefully.

I think both of them can contribute in limited minutes. Wynn is solely a run stopper, but Daniels is a good every down DE when healthy. I like the idea of playing Daniels at DT, but only on passing downs.
Whatever we do, I expect to see a lot of rotations & different packages to keep guys fresh & max. each one's strength.

Re: What are we going to do at DE?
 

[QUOTE=freddyg12;302804]yeah, they're old but they're also both team leaders. I hope we can keep both of them 1 more year, then let them bow out gracefully.

I think both of them can contribute in limited minutes. Wynn is solely a run stopper, but Daniels is a good every down DE when healthy. I like the idea of playing Daniels at DT, but only on passing downs.
Whatever we do, I expect to see a lot of rotations & different packages to keep guys fresh & max. each one's strength.[/QUOTE]

Team leaders? In what respect? Or do you mean clubhouse leaders?

Re: What are we going to do at DE?
 

[quote=jsarno;302807]Team leaders? In what respect? Or do you mean clubhouse leaders?[/quote]

JLC said both are vital to team chemistry. Both often serve as spokesmen for the players along w/Portis, e.g. I believe Daniels spoke to Gibbs about players working out on their own this offseason.

Re: What are we going to do at DE?
 

[QUOTE=freddyg12;302812]JLC said both are vital to team chemistry. Both often serve as spokesmen for the players along w/Portis, e.g. I believe Daniels spoke to Gibbs about players working out on their own this offseason.[/QUOTE]

Gotcha...you're referring to off the field / clubhouse. I agree with that. Cause on the field, they don't do much to warrant respect.

Re: What are we going to do at DE?
 

G.Adams has to be the primary focus.

Is anyone else going insane when they hear we are shopping for C.Johnson,
J.Russell, or Landry?? B/C to me that summarizes the Redskin frustration. We have needs that need to be met to be competitive, but Danny-boy does these interviews totally off track.

There is only a limited amount of logical choices. All of them include drafting a DT or DE. I hope they send the right message to the team (for once), staff, and fans in getting talented guys to fill roles. Its no longer impressive to me how we spend so much money. Yes money is valuable and hard to come by but when we buy Archuletta and come off a greater successful season by changing the offense and take setbacks is horrible (as in '06). This team loves aged near retired veterans and uses history to promise false futures is getting old.

I just hope we take the Ravens approach to the draft and take needs rather wants. They needed a run stuffer last year and they were blessed with Ngata. This years draft will not solve all the problems. Next year could get us back on track to replacing old ineffective D-Lineman . But Danny is surely using his bank account to reach minimal standards as his resume repeats.

The frustration of a Skins fan is parallel to no other franchise in sports. The epitome of disappointment and embarrassment.

Hail.

Re: What are we going to do at DE?
 

[QUOTE=Daseal;302700]I really don't feel Dline is as important as it's being made out to be. The Redskins have a ton of talent on both sides of the ball. Stay pat, take a stud, and prepare for another top 10 D.[/QUOTE]

What part of a #27 ranking against the run and the NFL record for least number of sacks in a non-strike season gave you this idea?

Rotating old, sucky players like Wynn and Daniels only gives you old, sucky players who stay fresh towards the end of the game.

It's going to be a long season if they don't do SOMETHING with the front four.

Re: What are we going to do at DE?
 

Yeah, D-Line and only D-line.We have to get through this draft and make it fill our immediate needs. Next year we can use that time to get ahead of teams but years of poor FA and sad drafts really are holding this franchise back. Every team but us in the division is preparing for the future w/ the draft. They just have the depth of players that we don't, that is what will sustain a club as last years horrible season shows. Daniels/Wynn's mobility to DE/DT will be the key for this season b/c I could see both of them retiring afterwards. G.Williams systems depends on versatility. We could somehow make it work. The question is if both Adams/Landry are on the table at 6 do we think we can replace either one in next years draft. I think so. Go D-lineman. The team will do the rest b/c it proves the gameplan is on track to improve.

Re: What are we going to do at DE?
 

If coach really thinks that there are no rookies that can start on this team he is nuts !!! 5 or six of the DE's could get more sacks in two games than Danials & wynn ever could . At least 5 WR's are better than Loyd , and I find it hard to believe that not 1 DB could crack our starting lineup . Willis and Puslunski could probably start and be an upgrade . I guess if SF offers us a first rd pick for Danials or Salave we will turn it down because Anderson / Carriker could not make the team < or have to ride the pine > .

Re: What are we going to do at DE?
 

[QUOTE=budw38;302891]If coach really thinks that there are no rookies that can start on this team he is nuts !!! 5 or six of the DE's could get more sacks in two games than Danials & wynn ever could . At least 5 WR's are better than Loyd , and I find it hard to believe that not 1 DB could crack our starting lineup . Willis and Puslunski could probably start and be an upgrade . I guess if SF offers us a first rd pick for Danials or Salave we will turn it down because Anderson / Carriker could not make the team < or have to ride the pine > .[/QUOTE]

When are we as collective Skins fans going to realize that Gibbs lies? He lied about why he left for NASCAR (citing that his kid kissed him and he noticed a beard so he needed to spend more time with family and fewer hours in the office...18 hours a day in NASCAR is not it...although you can twist that since he had a some there), he lied about Ramsey being the man, just to turn it over to Brunell, he is lieing about not being able to get a "starter". Maybe using the term LIE is too harsh, but the point remains the same. He plays his own game, and sends smoke screens whenever he can to make things seem better than they are. He'd be the type to say we need to focus on DE, then take a QB first pick. Don't get me wrong, I like Gibbs, but he will say what he needs to so he can achieve the results he wants.

Re: What are we going to do at DE?
 

[QUOTE=budw38;302891] At least 5 WR's are better than Loyd [/QUOTE]

It frustrates me to see this from people. Lloyd is a VERY GOOD wr. You have to have the ball thrown to you to make an impact. He was not used in the system and therefore no production. WR is unlike many position on the field because you are only successful if someone helps you out (QB). You are completely reliant on the QB. The man is very talented.
Trust me, if CJ goes to a crappy team with a crappy qb and gets thrown to at max twice a game...he'll be lucky to register 20 receptions, then everyone here will say, wow, he has no talent, he was overhyped. It's all about opportunity.

Re: What are we going to do at DE?
 

[QUOTE=jsarno;302798]Any help is good help. Wynn and Daniels are not cutting it.[/QUOTE]


Agreed.......And if we have to rely on those two for sixteen games, I can imagine what the game day thread is going to look like. Both these guys are ready for SS, and couldn't mount a pass rush if there were no line in front of them. That's why I find it hard to believe there's no one in this draft good enough to start ahead of either of these guys. Just goes to show the misguided loyalty Gibbs & Co, has for these old guys.

Re: What are we going to do at DE?
 

[quote=jsarno;302774]There is absolutely NO DOUBT that we need a DE in the draft. Taking Landry is DUMB because we don't need a safety as bad as we need DL help. The ultimate scenario is if we can trade down and get Okoye at 9 or so, then pick up a DE with the pick we get from that deal.
If we do not trade down, I feel we will still have at least 1 hole to fill. DE is incredibly weak with only Carter being a viable option. He was only OK last year, so not even Carter is entrenched in this position...it needs help bad.[/quote]
I agree with you 100%

Re: What are we going to do at DE?
 

[quote=jsarno;302898]It frustrates me to see this from people. Lloyd is a VERY GOOD wr. You have to have the ball thrown to you to make an impact. He was not used in the system and therefore no production. WR is unlike many position on the field because you are only successful if someone helps you out (QB). You are completely reliant on the QB. The man is very talented.
Trust me, if CJ goes to a crappy team with a crappy qb and gets thrown to at max twice a game...he'll be lucky to register 20 receptions, then everyone here will say, wow, he has no talent, he was overhyped. It's all about opportunity.[/quote] I never said he was not good or lacked talent . I was pointing out Gibbs comment that no rookie could crack our starting lineup . If T. Ginn Jr. is on the board at 32 , and the Colts offer me that pick for Loyd ,,, I make that pick. Same goes for Rocky , if Willis is on the board , and a team offers me the pick ,,, I make the trade . I was just making the point that many of these rookies are talented enough to contribute or start . I just hope we grab some extra picks , draft some DL-men and an OL men , because before we know it Samuels / Jansen / Thomas ....// Wynn / Danials / griffen / Salavae will be retired . And Fletcher , Washington are not so young either .

Re: What are we going to do at DE?
 

[quote=Schneed10;302703]Don't rule out the possibility of us nabbing either Landry or Okoye and then a DE in addition in round 2 or 3. We signed Smoot and David Macklin for a reason; I think there's a good chance the team unloads Shawn Springs for a 2nd or 3rd round pick somehow.

That move could be to target a G or a DE.[/quote]


Schneed - would trading Springs have a pretty heft charge against the cap since it is pre June 1st?

Re: What are we going to do at DE?
 

[quote=Bill B;302941]Schneed - would trading Springs have a pretty heft charge against the cap since it is pre June 1st?[/quote]

No, his salary is about the same as his bonus that he is still due, so the salary cap wont be impacted at all, except that we have to sign a new player that counts towards the cap after we get rid of him.

Re: What are we going to do at DE?
 

[QUOTE=budw38;302927]I never said he was not good or lacked talent . I was pointing out Gibbs comment that no rookie could crack our starting lineup . If T. Ginn Jr. is on the board at 32 , and the Colts offer me that pick for Loyd ,,, I make that pick. Same goes for Rocky , if Willis is on the board , and a team offers me the pick ,,, I make the trade . I was just making the point that many of these rookies are talented enough to contribute or start . I just hope we grab some extra picks , draft some DL-men and an OL men , because before we know it Samuels / Jansen / Thomas ....// Wynn / Danials / griffen / Salavae will be retired . And Fletcher , Washington are not so young either .[/QUOTE]

Alright...I apologize for jumping all over you. I'm just tired of hearing that Brandon Lloyd is not good and we need a WR. We don't. We just need our QB to produce. Something we haven't really seen since Brad Johnson.

Re: What are we going to do at DE?
 

[quote=jsarno;302986]Alright...I apologize for jumping all over you. I'm just tired of hearing that Brandon Lloyd is not good and we need a WR. We don't. We just need our QB to produce. Something we haven't really seen since Brad Johnson.[/quote]

Yeah, what you said! I am tired of a underachieving offense due to lack of solid QB play.

Re: What are we going to do at DE?
 

[QUOTE=angryssg;302989]Yeah, what you said! I am tired of a underachieving offense due to lack of solid QB play.[/QUOTE]

Hopefully that will change this year.
At least if we're going to make a dumb pick somewhere, make it with a solid QB instead of some project. Like Brady Quinn.

Re: What are we going to do at DE?
 

[quote=jsarno;302991]Hopefully that will change this year.
At least if we're going to make a dumb pick somewhere, make it with a solid QB instead of some project. Like Brady Quinn.[/quote]
I couldn't agree more. If he is still there, don't pass him up. My thinking is if we get him, then no one else can hurt us with him.

Re: What are we going to do at DE?
 

[QUOTE=angryssg;302994]I couldn't agree more. If he is still there, don't pass him up. My thinking is if we get him, then no one else can hurt us with him.[/QUOTE]

It would be better than taking a QB from some obscure university that had some career records even though they had no real good qb's ever in their university history. Ie: Tulane.