Options at DE
 

Okay so i know were trying to save all our picks for next year buttttttttt how would you feel about the redskins giving up a 3rd round pick ( hopefully not a 2nd) for DE Aaron Schobel
JLC has a good article out on DE's and lists Schobel as the top target
[url]www.blog.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/[/url]

Re: Hmmmm...
 

[quote=Bbaker24;307601]Okay so i know were trying to save all our picks for next year buttttttttt how would you feel about the redskins giving up a 3rd round pick ( hopefully not a 2nd) for DE Aaron Schobel
JLC has a good article out on DE's and lists Schobel as the top target
[URL="http://www.blog.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/"]www.blog.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/[/URL][/quote]

Keep what we have and give up no more!

Re: Hmmmm...
 

I'm disappointed. I thought this was going to be a thread about C and C Music Factory.

Re: Hmmmm...
 

gonna make you sweat?

Re: Hmmmm...
 

[QUOTE=dmek25;307613]gonna make you sweat?[/QUOTE]

Things that make you go hmmmm

Re: Hmmmm...
 

I'm starting to get very scared about this team. I am one of the first to argue our strong points to people who count us out but there is one very ugly fact looming that can not be denied.

In 2-3 years we will quite possibly be the worst team in the NFL! Our window of opportunity for a championship is going to close after this season.

Over the last 5 years we have had the least amount of draft picks in the NFL and most of them have not even made the team, due to our lack of ability to find talent in the late rounds. Therefore, everyone on our team is too close to the same age (meaning their skills will all diminish at the same time).

How do we replace the entire offensive and defensive lines and numerous skill positions within 2 years. It will be impossible. This is the result of trading draft picks for 30 yr old players and it needs to stop. I know we need a DE in the worst way and like I said, this season might be our last legitimate shot for quite a while but it has to stop sometime.

The slim chance we have to pull our asses out of this fire is to not only keep all of our draft picks but also acquire more anyway we can (by trading away veterans) and this will only work if we draft extremely well - in every round. Part of me thinks that the reason that our current management throws their draft picks away with so little thought is that they do not have confidence that they will be able to convert the picks into productive players.

Sorry my answer is so long but to sum it up - no, we should not trade a 2nd or 3rd rounder for a 30 yr old DE. It would be counterproductive.

Re: Hmmmm...
 

Yes. There is no way this guy is not worth a third. I wouldn't trade a second, but this guy is a consistent player [I]who works well in this defense[/I].

How could you not want a guy who could definately fill the void for 3 years? He is really about the only guy out there that I would be excited about getting. With that said, we still need a run stuffing DT to rotate. Hopefully one can be had in the June 1 cuts.

Re: Hmmmm...
 

[QUOTE=81forHOF;307617]I'm starting to get very scared about this team. I am one of the first to argue our strong points to people who count us out but there is one very ugly fact looming that can not be denied.

In 2-3 years we will quite possibly be the worst team in the NFL! Our window of opportunity for a championship is going to close after this season.

Over the last 5 years we have had the least amount of draft picks in the NFL and most of them have not even made the team due to our lack of ability to find talent in the late rounds. Therefore, every one on our team is to close to the same age (meaning their skills will all diminish at the same time).

How do we replace the entire offensive and defensive lines and numerous skill positions within 2 years. It will be impossible. This is the result of trading draft picks for 30 yr old players and needs to stop. I know we need a DE in the worst way and like I said, this season might be our last legitimate shot for quite a while but it has to stop sometime.

The slim chance we have to pull our asses out of this fire is to not only keep all of our draft picks but also acquire more anyway we can (by trading away veterans) and this will only work if we draft extremely well - in all rounds. Part of me thinks that the reason that our current management throws their draft picks away with so little thought is that they do not have confidence that they will be able to convert the picks into productive players.

Sorry my answer is so long but to sum it up - no, we should not trade a 2nd or 3rd rounder for a 30 yr old DE. ibe counterprductive[/QUOTE]

But if what you say is true that's all the more reason to do the deal. If this is the last year before our window of opportunity closes (which I disagree with btw, but going with what you said) then we should do everything possible to shore up any weaknesses and try to gun for the superbowl before embarking on a long term rebuilding project.

Re: Hmmmm...
 

3rd round for schobel is a no-brainer... there arent' too many guys who would hesitate on that deal.

I know the guy is 29, but he's consistantly one of the best in the league. You gamble on anyone you bring in, but his resume will be much more impressive than anyone you can get in the third round... Not sayin you can't find third round superstars... so don't start posting examples.. Im just saying there's less risk.

Re: Hmmmm...
 

[quote=canthetuna;307624]3rd round for schobel is a no-brainer... there arent' too many guys who would hesitate on that deal.

I know the guy is 29, but he's consistantly one of the best in the league. You gamble on anyone you bring in, but his resume will be much more impressive than anyone you can get in the third round... Not sayin you can't find third round superstars... so don't start posting examples.. Im just saying there's less risk.[/quote]

They gave up a 3rd for Duckett, a 3rd and 4th for Llyod, a 3rd for Brunell. This would actually be a trade that would make sense if they got Schobel for a 3rd. I can't imagine the Bills letting him go so cheaply though. Pass rushing D-Ends are not exactly a dime a dozen. That is a premier position and Schobel is a player.

Re: Options at DE
 

A 3rd for Schobel would be a no-brainer, unfortunately I think the price would be higher than just a 3rd.

By the way I'm officially on the sign Schobel bandwagon, I think he would be a great pickup and he's one of the more underrated DEs in the league.

Re: Hmmmm...
 

[quote=djnemo65;307621]But if what you say is true that's all the more reason to do the deal. If this is the last year before our window of opportunity closes (which I disagree with btw, but going with what you said) then we should do everything possible to shore up any weaknesses and try to gun for the superbowl before embarking on a long term rebuilding project.[/quote]

Part of me agrees with you in the worst way but I would rather try to right the sinking ship and stay competitive in future years. the term 'rebuilding' sends chills down my spine.

As for me not being right, can you name one starter on our offensive or defensive lines that won't either be retired or past their prime in 2 years (most are past their prime now). That is a scary thought. Except for our two young defensive tackles we don't even seem to be grooming anyone.

You can patch holes in FA but you can't go out and get a whole team.

Re: Options at DE
 

By the way, props to Gmanc for first talking about Schobel when I brought up the idea of signing Chris Kelsay a couple of months ago.

Re: Options at DE
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;307643]By the way, props to Gmanc for first talking about Schobel when I brought up the idea of signing Chris Kelsay a couple of months ago.[/QUOTE]

Oh Stop....;)

Re: Options at DE
 

alex brown. i think that guy is a freaking beast, schobel for a third rounder would be nice too though. i would take either to be honest but i think that a guy like brown is more available because the bears have 3 ends who are capable of starting. the bills have schobel and he is thier only real threat on the dline.

Re: Options at DE
 

I would reluctantly trade a 3rd rounder for any DE who is going to turn 30 during the season. I would NEVER trade a 1st or 2nd rounder for a guy like A.S. who is turning 30 mid-season.

Re: Options at DE
 

I'd give a 2nd for AS. He's got the skills and he fits our need to a T. I'd be surprised if we get him for a 3rd.

I'm still ok with getting stronger in trade and FA--the key is taking the right people. AA was a mistake because he SUCKED, not because we got him in FA.

Re: Options at DE
 

I rather have Alex Brown over Aaron Schobel.

Re: Options at DE
 

[quote=RMSkins;307663]I rather have Alex Brown over Aaron Schobel.[/quote]I would too, if we didn't already have that guy Carter.

Brown>Carter, but neither is big enough to line up against TEs and RTs and win consistently.

Re: Options at DE
 

What side does he play? He is to small to play opposite Carter. I think they are wrong about the Redskins wanting him.

Re: Options at DE
 

[quote=JWsleep;307654]I'd give a 2nd for AS. He's got the skills and he fits our need to a T. I'd be surprised if we get him for a 3rd.

I'm still ok with getting stronger in trade and FA--the key is taking the right people. AA was a mistake because he SUCKED, not because we got him in FA.[/quote]Good points all around, BUT from a cap perspective, we can only afford to give up precious cap dollars if we get cheap young talent in there to replace said signing 2-3 years down the road. We simply can't afford to deal picks for Schobel, because then our hands are tied when it comes to replacing Carter/Schobel/Griffin.

I can't stress enough how important it is from a cap situation that we hit on all of our first day draft picks over the next two years. I mean, we're pretty much screwed in 2009 defensively if we don't get at least two starters in the draft next year.

And its really difficult to make good picks if you don't have the picks.

If we wait ONE year, all these players will come to us in FA if we still want them. A day one pick is a big premium to pay for one year usage of a player.

Re: Options at DE
 

Full Name: Aaron R. Schobel
Born: September 1, 1977
Columbus, TX
Height: 6-4
Weight: 262 lbs.
Pronounced: SHOW-bull

Age: 29
Pos: DE
Experience: 6 years
College: TCU
Drafted: Year:2001 Round:2 Pick:15, Bills

2007 Scouting Report - Scouts Inc.
Grade: 82 | Key
Alert: B

Comment:
Schobel has an excellent combination of athleticism, durability and experience. He aligns as the right end in regular and sub packages. He is smart, instinctive and competitive. He attacks gaps and can be very disruptive on the move. He is a solid technician whose hand usage has continually improved. He takes outstanding pursuit angles, gets over trash easily and has the speed to extend to the perimeter. He has enough functional strength and leverage to hold up against the run. He is an effective tackler in the box. He has very good pass-rushing instincts and anticipation. He has good burst off the edge and the speed to bend the corner and close on quarterbacks. He has active hands and can transfer power to speed. He has an array of pass-rush moves he can put together. He takes good sharp angles off inside games. Schobel is a little undersized and can struggle against some bigger blockers. He neutralizes blocks but isn't an explosive stack-and-shed player.

Re: Options at DE
 

Full Name: Alex James Brown
Born: June 4, 1979
Jasper, FL
Height: 6-3
Weight: 260 lbs.

Age: 27
Pos: DE
Experience: 5 years
College: Florida
Drafted: Year:2002 Round:4 Pick:6, Bears

2007 Scouting Report - Scouts Inc.
Grade: 75 | Key
Alert: None

Comment:
Brown has excellent agility and speed. He is a pass rusher first and a run-stopper second. He seems to plays in spurts, but he has become more consistent and is tough to stop when he's hot. He has improved his array of pass-rush moves and can beat most blockers with his athleticism when he can isolate them. He has good body control and changes directions well. He can squeeze the quarterback with tight angles. He has quick hands that he uses well and gets good separation. He seems to have a decent feel for blocking angles and will make a lot of backside chase plays for a big guy. But Brown isn't always as dominant as his skills suggest he should be. He is adequate against the run but isn't big or strong enough at the point of attack against double teams and power blockers. He disappears into his own world at times and isn't consistently disciplined. He still is young enough to improve further, but one wonders how he would fare with a group of lesser teammates.

Re: Options at DE
 

Full Name: Derrick Lee Burgess
Born: August 12, 1978
Lake City, SC
Height: 6-2
Weight: 260 lbs.

Age: 28
Pos: DE
Experience: 6 years
College: Mississippi
Drafted: Year:2001 Round:3 Pick:1, Eagles

2007 Scouting Report - Scouts Inc.
Grade: 78 | Key
Alert: D

Comment:
Burgess is the ultimate gamer, using hustle and technique to become an outstanding performer. He is a constant edge threat who can change opponents' blocking schemes. He has long arms and very quick hands, and he knows how to use them exceedingly well. He can keep blockers off his body by consistently getting his hands inside and extending. He can maneuver a tackle who is on his heels when he grabs cloth with his strong hands. He has a variety of pass-rush moves, including an excellent inside club move and a surprisingly impressive bull rush for a small end. He gets to many sacks almost by sheer will. He is relentless in pursuit and can make plays from the back side, despite lacking outstanding pure speed. Burgess lacks ideal size and is an ordinary athlete for an elite pass rusher. He can get overwhelmed in the run game by massive drive-blocking tackles. He lacks the quick-twitch athleticism, smooth hips and edge speed of most sack kings. He has a terrible injury history, which could explain the stunning breakout in his first full, healthy season since his rookie year.

Re: Options at DE
 

I wouldn't trade a day one pick for any of these guys. I'd show interest...and if they want Springs, then we can talk turkey, but lets not mortgage three years in the future for another win this year.

Re: Options at DE
 

We need a big DE like Jamal Anderson or Adam Carricker

Re: Options at DE
 

[QUOTE=GTripp0012;307667]Good points all around, BUT from a cap perspective, we can only afford to give up precious cap dollars if we get cheap young talent in there to replace said signing 2-3 years down the road. We simply can't afford to deal picks for Schobel, because then our hands are tied when it comes to replacing Carter/Schobel/Griffin.

I can't stress enough how important it is from a cap situation that we hit on all of our first day draft picks over the next two years. I mean, we're pretty much screwed in 2009 defensively if we don't get at least two starters in the draft next year.

And its really difficult to make good picks if you don't have the picks.

If we wait ONE year, all these players will come to us in FA if we still want them. A day one pick is a big premium to pay for one year usage of a player.[/QUOTE]



I hear you, GT. In the end, your most likely right--we've got to take the pain this year, and hit it in the draft. But AS would be a good fit, cap notwithstanding. Wouldn't be surprised if our FO goes the short term root again. They are obviously hopeful on finding some more Antonio Pierce type guys in late rounds and undrafted FA, but that's not a safe thing to bet on.

Re: Options at DE
 

Our options are:

a. What we have in house
b. What may be available after the 1 June Cuts.



Trades are not an option for DE. Folks here are piling on the "we need DE help" bandwagon. I'm not for Brown, Schoebel, or Burgess. They are someone else's problem until they are released. With our cap room, we can only fit so many heads into it.

I guarantee that GW will have 11 guys on the D this year! I am absolutely firm in that prediction.

Re: Options at DE
 

Dexter Manley and Charles Mann can play better than the guys we currently have.

Re: Options at DE
 

He's worth a 3rd no doubt, but I'd almost rather we check the waiver wire first & if there's nothing cheap & a deal can go down later in the summer then do it.

What if they ask for Springs? I hope SS stays at least another year.

Re: Options at DE
 

[quote=skinsfan69;307678]Dexter Manley and Charles Mann can play better than the guys we currently have.[/quote]
they both would have more sacks right now, then the guys we have

Re: Options at DE
 

[quote=GTripp0012;307671]I wouldn't trade a day one pick for any of these guys. I'd show interest...and if they want Springs, then we can talk turkey, but lets not mortgage three years in the future for another win this year.[/quote]

How does giving up Springs make our team better?

Re: Options at DE
 

BTW,

Has anyone else noticed how many people who write on JLC's blog hate Art of Extremeskins? I find it entertaining.

Re: Options at DE
 

[quote=Grim21Reaper;307709]How does giving up Springs make our team better?[/quote]Doesn't. (Period)

But that's all I'd be willing to give in order to aquire DL help.

Re: Options at DE
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;307710]BTW,

Has anyone else noticed how many people who write on JLC's blog hate Art of Extremeskins? I find it entertaining.[/quote]
who is art?

Re: Options at DE
 

[quote=Grim21Reaper;307709]How does giving up Springs make our team better?[/quote]

Giving up Springs doesnt make our team better but getting decent value in a trade for a injury prone player who's past his prime and not willing to rework his contract because he know's that theirs not another pay day in his future due to what i previously stated does. And getting a player to improve our weakest unit while giving up one that is part of our now deeper units makes sense to me.

Re: Options at DE
 

[quote=Grim21Reaper;307709]How does giving up Springs make our team better?[/quote]
here we go again. right now springs is our best corner. why anyone wants to trade him, or have him switch positions, is beyond me

Re: Hmmmm...
 

I don't think things will decline as fast as you are saying, but I agree with your basic point. The Redskins have been thinking short term with their decision making as far as I can see. We do need younger players rather than ones who will help us win immediately. No more trades for players like TJ Duckett. At some point, if we have a deficiency, we will just have to live with it rather than mortgaging the future. I think the team as constructed will be a playoff team. Leave our draft choices intact for next season, and the season after that.

Forget Schobel, in my view. We should rely only on free agents to improve the team, such as the already signed Justin Hickman:

JUSTIN HICKMAN MEASURABLES Height: [B]6-1 [IMG]http://i.tsn.com/i/o/nfl/draft/fraction_3-8.gif[/IMG] [/B]Weight: [B]255[/B] 40-yard dash: [B]4.75[/B] 10-yard dash: [B]1.65[/B] 20-yard shuttle: [B]4.44[/B] [COLOR=#999999]60-yard shuttle: [/COLOR]Broad jump: [B]9-7 [/B]225-lb. bench: [B]23[/B] 3-cone drill: [B]7.07[/B] Vertical jump: [B]30 [IMG]http://i.tsn.com/i/o/nfl/draft/fraction_1-2.gif[/IMG] [/B][COLOR=#999999]Wonderlic: [/COLOR]20-yard dash: [B]2.75[/B] [IMG]http://i.tsn.com/i/o/bk.gif[/IMG]


War Room analysis
[B]Strengths:[/B] Is a good, smart athlete with good instincts. Works hard on every snap. Shows quick hands to defeat pass blockers one-on-one when aggressive. Can jolt offensive tackles backward with hard hand punch. Consistently carries out assignments, especially on backside against naked rollback passes. Has experience dropping into zone coverage. Is adept in backside pursuit; can hurdle cut blockers, stay afoot and reach full speed in a blink. Finds a way to make a play at the game's most important moments. Has blocked a few punts/kicks on special teams.


[quote=81forHOF;307617]I'm starting to get very scared about this team. I am one of the first to argue our strong points to people who count us out but there is one very ugly fact looming that can not be denied.

In 2-3 years we will quite possibly be the worst team in the NFL! Our window of opportunity for a championship is going to close after this season.

Over the last 5 years we have had the least amount of draft picks in the NFL and most of them have not even made the team, due to our lack of ability to find talent in the late rounds. Therefore, everyone on our team is too close to the same age (meaning their skills will all diminish at the same time).

How do we replace the entire offensive and defensive lines and numerous skill positions within 2 years. It will be impossible. This is the result of trading draft picks for 30 yr old players and it needs to stop. I know we need a DE in the worst way and like I said, this season might be our last legitimate shot for quite a while but it has to stop sometime.

The slim chance we have to pull our asses out of this fire is to not only keep all of our draft picks but also acquire more anyway we can (by trading away veterans) and this will only work if we draft extremely well - in every round. Part of me thinks that the reason that our current management throws their draft picks away with so little thought is that they do not have confidence that they will be able to convert the picks into productive players.

Sorry my answer is so long but to sum it up - no, we should not trade a 2nd or 3rd rounder for a 30 yr old DE. It would be counterproductive.[/quote]

Re: Options at DE
 

Oakland Red I agree... He will be as productive as Tapp, Dumerville, and Freeny if we keep him and let him play. He's a very productive player. DON'T CUT THIS GUY JOE, HE WILL BE A BEAST!!

Re: Options at DE
 

[quote=dmek25;307787]here we go again. right now springs is our best corner. why anyone wants to trade him, or have him switch positions, is beyond me[/quote]Well, either you shop him for DL help, or you keep him and start him at corner.

Either way, we are out a starter somewhere.