Sean Taylors play
 

This might just be me, but I think that Sean Taylors play has regressed since he came to the skins. He seems to have gotten bigger, but slower. His coverage abilities have diminished, and personally I feel that his tackling has regressed. He can hit harder now, but he seems to be missing more tackles that he should be making. I feel that his number of tackles this past year has nothing to do with his tackling getting any better, but the rest of the D getting worse; more plays are going to the safety position because the initial tacklers have messed up, and the D has spent more time on the field due to more 1st downs due to poor D play, which gives Taylor more opportunities to tackle. This pains me to say because he is my favorite player, but I feel it to be true. I hope the addition of Landry somehow makes him the player he once was.

Re: Sean Taylors play
 

It is not just you. Google Tom Friends article on our secondary from last year. It is interesting.

Re: Sean Taylors play
 

[url=http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/print?id=2672668&type=story]ESPN.com - Reeling Redskins awash in troubles[/url]

Re: Sean Taylors play
 

Last year the whole defense pretty much sucked gorilla. I think ST tried to do too much to compensate for a lack of players around him. I'll wait until this season to begin before I start saying that "the beast" is regressing. I'm hoping to see an entire defensive resurgence!!

Re: Sean Taylors play
 

Never heard of Tom Friend? Opinions are like you know what.

I don't believe he's regressed at all. I think he's a better player now than what we drafted, just ask Greg Williams. You surely can't base this off last year's performance, we were broke from one end to the other on defense.

Re: Sean Taylors play
 

Look at his play in the Pro Bowl. Those are the sorts of things he could do in a good defense with players around him. Reference also his play in 2005. I will say that Tom Friend's point about there being too many chefs in the kitchen is a good one. The 2006 Skins had separate meetings for safties and corners (separate coaches too) and I think we saw how they were not on the same page. Friend's discussion on the John Thompson show last fall was quite enlightening, you can check it out on the WTEM Archives or as a Podcast.

Re: Sean Taylors play
 

If it weren't for Sean Taylors play last year we are a 3-13 team or worse!
He single handedly won us the Dallas game with heads up thinking picking up that blocked FG and getting us the opportunity to kick the winner.
In the Carolina game he had a key 4th qtr stop near the end of the game and an INT in the endzone to save the game.
Without him we don't win them two games, and probably a lot more intances where if we had a lesser FS in there we would have been killed by a lot more in the games we lost.
He was a Pro Bowl first alternate, got his chance to go to the Pro Bowl and as Madden would say "BAM" he layed Brian Moorman the F out.
No way that Sean has regressed, in fact he is just gonna get better.

Re: Sean Taylors play
 

Taylor's play was a reflection of the D as a whole last year.

Re: Sean Taylors play
 

[quote=skinsfan_nn;308041]Never heard of Tom Friend? Opinions are like you know what.

I don't believe he's regressed at all. I think he's a better player now than what we drafted, just ask Greg Williams. You surely can't base this off last year's performance, we were broke from one end to the other on defense.[/quote]He's probably a better player now than ever before. I mean, I have no reason to think that he's "regressing" in the traditional sense.

Rather, what could be happening is that his flaws in the first two seasons he played were hidden by an overachieving front 7. As soon as that group broke down, ST's numerous flaws (which had exisited all along) became far more noticible. As he gains experience, he can work to correct these flaws, but for the time being, they are still a part of who he is. I doubt our front seven is going to give him too much more help this year. The Fletcher addition should help.

Conventional Solution: Fix the front 7
Redskins' Solution: Draft a guy at his position

Re: Sean Taylors play
 

[quote=SantanaMan;308047]If it weren't for Sean Taylors play last year we are a 3-13 team or worse!
He single handedly won us the Dallas game with heads up thinking picking up that blocked FG and getting us the opportunity to kick the winner.
In the Carolina game he had a key 4th qtr stop near the end of the game and an INT in the endzone to save the game.
Without him we don't win them two games, and probably a lot more intances where if we had a lesser FS in there we would have been killed by a lot more in the games we lost.
He was a Pro Bowl first alternate, got his chance to go to the Pro Bowl and as Madden would say "BAM" he layed Brian Moorman the F out.
No way that Sean has regressed, in fact he is just gonna get better.[/quote]Might we have won games like Atlanta, or Minnesota, or Tennessee without his blown coverages though?

He certainly has a nose for the ball, and made a heads up play in the Dallas game. He's just too aggressive on the whole.

Re: Sean Taylors play
 

[quote=GTripp0012;308052]Might we have won games like Atlanta, or Minnesota, or Tennessee without his blown coverages though?

He certainly has a nose for the ball, and made a heads up play in the Dallas game. He's just too aggressive on the whole.[/quote]

What coverage did he blow against Minnesota? I remember Rogers looking like an idiot.

Re: Sean Taylors play
 

There is no way his athleticism has diminished. The average male hits his physical peak around 27 years old. Taylor just turned 24 last month. He led the team in tackles last year I believe, with 111. The D-line was a joke and LBs stunk, we dropped numerous INTs, and never had any consistency in the secondary, with a rotation of guys like Mike Rumph, Archuletta, Kenny Wright, Vernon Fox, Troy Vincent etc etc. Actually, there are I think 4 guys who played regularly in our secondary last year who are no longer on the team. There is a reason for that. I personally think ST is primed for a big season where he emerges as an elite defensive player in the league, not just a good safety in the NFC.

Re: Sean Taylors play
 

He's gonna be hungry next year he's gonna be hitting people left and right and snatching balls out of the sky like he did in 04 and 05

Re: Sean Taylors play
 

[quote=SantanaMan;308047]If it weren't for Sean Taylors play last year we are a 3-13 team or worse!
He single handedly won us the Dallas game with heads up thinking picking up that blocked FG and getting us the opportunity to kick the winner.
In the Carolina game he had a key 4th qtr stop near the end of the game and an INT in the endzone to save the game.
Without him we don't win them two games, and probably a lot more intances where if we had a lesser FS in there we would have been killed by a lot more in the games we lost.
He was a Pro Bowl first alternate, got his chance to go to the Pro Bowl and as Madden would say "BAM" he layed Brian Moorman the F out.
No way that Sean has regressed, in fact he is just gonna get better.[/quote]


I don't agree with that, if we didn't give three games away on a golden platter ....we could have been 8-8 and in the playoffs. Woulda, Shoulda, Didn't!

And that GREAT Dallas WIN I'm giving that game ball to Troy Vincent, if he didn't block the kick there would not have been a ball to run back in the first place.

Re: Sean Taylors play
 

And that GREAT Dallas WIN I'm giving that game ball to Troy Vincent, if he didn't block the kick there would not have been a ball to run back in the first place.[/quote]

Vincent didn't run the ball into field goal range though...

Re: Sean Taylors play
 

Face it folks, he's a baaaaaad man and a freak athlete.


[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLtuRfE6R-A]YouTube - Sean Taylor From College To Da PROS[/url]

Re: Sean Taylors play
 

[quote=Grim21Reaper;308053]What coverage did he blow against Minnesota? I remember Rogers looking like an idiot.[/quote]I thought the entire secondary was awful that game. I don't remember specific plays, but I definately remember shaking my head at ST multiple times that game.

Re: Sean Taylors play
 

I also remember Marcus washington being so high up in the air on that field goal that if troy hadn't blocked it he deffinetly would have.

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[quote=Grim21Reaper;308059]Vincent didn't run the ball into field goal range though...[/quote]And Taylor didn't facemask himself.

I mean, great play all around. Great play by Vincent. Heads up play by Taylor. But the play on a whole...just a crazy wonderful fluctuation of dumb luck.

Re: Sean Taylors play
 

[quote=Grim21Reaper;308059]And that GREAT Dallas WIN I'm giving that game ball to Troy Vincent, if he didn't block the kick there would not have been a ball to run back in the first place.[/quote]

Vincent didn't run the ball into field goal range though...[/quote]

Well let me put it like this, if Troy didn't block. ST has no ball.

And he didn't run into FG range, a weak 15 yard penalty got the team in range........but I'll gladly take it.

Re: Sean Taylors play
 

this season will be a make or break year for Taylor. i believe he has regressed. but with a defense that was almost in total disarray last season, there sure was plenty of blame to go around. i like how just about everyone shares the blame except for Taylor. for some reason fans seem to be willing to give him a free pass

Re: Sean Taylors play
 

Because hes the most exciting defensive player on the damn team. Are defensive sucked ass last season and you saying the only good player is regressing is basically saying we have no one now.

Re: Sean Taylors play
 

[quote=dmek25;308065]this season will be a make or break year for Taylor. i believe he has regressed. but with a defense that was almost in total disarray last season, there sure was plenty of blame to go around. i like how just about everyone shares the blame except for Taylor. for some reason fans seem to be willing to give him a free pass[/quote]
can't say i agree wit cha, Taylor will be a Redskin for the forseeable future. Speaking of blame how bout the blame on the front 7? we had to use Taylor like a 4th linebacker against the run, yet we blame him for blown coverages when he still was able to even make it into the area of the play. Too much blame on Sean if i may say so. This guy has freakish range and this year it will be on display as he shows many how to play free safety

Re: Sean Taylors play
 

[quote=Mattyk72;308048]Taylor's play was a reflection of the D as a whole last year.[/quote]


matty you see it like everyday but people dont seem to get it

Re: Sean Taylors play
 

[quote=skinsfan_nn;308064]Vincent didn't run the ball into field goal range though...[/quote]

Well let me put it like this, if Troy didn't block. ST has no ball.

And he didn't run into FG range, a weak 15 yard penalty got the team in range........but I'll gladly take it.[/quote]

Weak? Did you see the game, more specifically, the penalty or just read about it in the Dallas/Fort Worth Picayune? If AA hadn't played such horrible coverage against Witten, then the completion wouldn't have been made. We really owe it to AA. :)

Anyway, GTripp's posts are pretty much what I'm feeling so re-read his and consider this to be his echo.

Re: Sean Taylors play
 

[quote=724Skinsfan;308072]Well let me put it like this, if Troy didn't block. ST has no ball.

And he didn't run into FG range, a weak 15 yard penalty got the team in range........but I'll gladly take it.[/quote]

Weak? Did you see the game, more specifically, the penalty or just read about it in the Dallas/Fort Worth Picayune? If AA hadn't played such horrible coverage against Witten, then the completion wouldn't have been made. We really owe it to AA. :)

Anyway, GTripp's posts are pretty much what I'm feeling so re-read his and consider this to be his echo.[/quote]


AA finally did something right but lets be serious if nic novak made the first fg we wouldnt be in that situation to begin with

Re: Sean Taylors play
 

[quote=724Skinsfan;308072]Well let me put it like this, if Troy didn't block. ST has no ball.

And he didn't run into FG range, a weak 15 yard penalty got the team in range........but I'll gladly take it.[/quote]

Weak? Did you see the game, more specifically, the penalty or just read about it in the Dallas/Fort Worth Picayune? If AA hadn't played such horrible coverage against Witten, then the completion wouldn't have been made. We really owe it to AA. :)

Anyway, GTripp's posts are pretty much what I'm feeling so re-read his and consider this to be his echo.[/quote]

Yea I was up close and personal. By the way your reading a quote for grim, read closely!

As I stated Troy blocked the FGA, ST recovered the ball. Pretty simple, without Troy's block, ST doesn't have ball right? right

And yes the call IMO was not the 15 PF variety, but as I stated glad to take it.

Re: Sean Taylors play
 

Nevermind

Re: Sean Taylors play
 

[quote=skinsfan_nn;308093]Hey MODS, it looks like we have a QUOTE PROBLEM, THE POST I JUST MADE HAS MY TEXT.

IN THE QUOTE BOX ABOVE IT'S MY QUOTE WITH 724 skinfan? SOMETHINGS HOSED UP![/quote]Just make sure you delete the double quote in the text box. Make sure there is only one "[ /quote]" (without the space) per post.

Re: Sean Taylors play
 

[quote=skinsfan_nn;308093]Hey MODS, it looks like we have a QUOTE PROBLEM, THE POST I JUST MADE HAS MY TEXT.

IN THE QUOTE BOX ABOVE IT'S MY QUOTE WITH 724 skinfan? SOMETHINGS HOSED UP![/quote]


ok i will take care of it lol j/k a little mod humor hope i dont get banned

Re: Sean Taylors play
 

I am not willing to admit that Sean Taylor's play has regressed since his first season playing for the Redskins. If you look at the last 6 Superbowl winners, they have all had great safeties on the defense. Let's rewind. Colts - Bob Sander, Steelers- Troy Polomalu, Patriots X2 - Rodney Harrison, Bucs - John Lynch, and then Harrison again. However, IMO, not one of these guys are the best player on their defense. They are able to go out and make plays beceause they all had a front 7 who could take care of business, unlike the Skins had last year. If you look at the 2005 season when our front 7 was good, Taylor was making plays all over the place!!!! No one cany deny that. Do you think Ed Reed would be as good as he is, and I'm not trying to take away from Reed because he's probably going to go down as one of the best saeties ever to play. But, do you think he would be as good as he is without playing with the likes of Ray Lewis, Chris McAllister, Adalius Thomas, or Terrell Suggs. I doubt it.

I feel like safety is a tough position to be making a lot of game changing plays at, like ST did in 2005, when the guys in front of you suck. If you took any one of the safeties I just mentioned and put them in instead of Taylor last year, I doubt any of them could do much better, IMO.

Is it true that ST missed a lot of tackles last year, yes it is. However, if you look closely at a lot of those plays, Sean was running from the other side of the field trying to make a play on a guy that was not even his responsibility!! So, yeah he may of missed some tackles, but a lot of those most safties in the NFL wouldnt be able to even come close to putting themselves in a position to make the play in the first place. ST is a freakin beast, and he's going to haunt your dreams for talking bad about him. He can do that.

Re: Sean Taylors play
 

[quote=gabe1984;308180]I am not willing to admit that Sean Taylor's play has regressed since his first season playing for the Redskins. If you look at the last 6 Superbowl winners, they have all had great safeties on the defense. Let's rewind. Colts - Bob Sander, Steelers- Troy Polomalu, Patriots X2 - Rodney Harrison, Bucs - John Lynch, and then Harrison again. However, IMO, not one of these guys are the best player on their defense. They are able to go out and make plays beceause they all had a front 7 who could take care of business, unlike the Skins had last year. If you look at the 2005 season when our front 7 was good, Taylor was making plays all over the place!!!! No one cany deny that. Do you think Ed Reed would be as good as he is, and I'm not trying to take away from Reed because he's probably going to go down as one of the best saeties ever to play. But, do you think he would be as good as he is without playing with the likes of Ray Lewis, Chris McAllister, Adalius Thomas, or Terrell Suggs. I doubt it.

I feel like safety is a tough position to be making a lot of game changing plays at, like ST did in 2005, when the guys in front of you suck. If you took any one of the safeties I just mentioned and put them in instead of Taylor last year, I doubt any of them could do much better, IMO.

Is it true that ST missed a lot of tackles last year, yes it is. However, if you look closely at a lot of those plays, Sean was running from the other side of the field trying to make a play on a guy that was not even his responsibility!! So, yeah he may of missed some tackles, but a lot of those most safties in the NFL wouldnt be able to even come close to putting themselves in a position to make the play in the first place. ST is a freakin beast, and he's going to haunt your dreams for talking bad about him. He can do that.[/quote]


I think it's also worth pointing out that Sean led the Skins in tackles last year, and was in fact, one of the leading tacklers in all of the NFL last year.

Within NFL circles, I think it's safe to say many consider #21 one of the top safety's playing today.

That being said, I think if his number of tackles drop by 10 or so this year, it's possible his production will improve as a result.

Re: Sean Taylors play
 

[quote=12thMan;308186]I think it's also worth pointing out that Sean led the Skins in tackles last year, and was in fact, one of the leading tacklers in all of the NFL last year.

Within NFL circles, I think it's safe to say many consider #21 one of the top safety's playing today.

That being said, I think if his number of tackles drop by 10 or so this year, it's possible his production will improve as a result.[/quote]

Please explain what you mean by production improving with less tackles. What?

Re: Sean Taylors play
 

[quote=angryssg;308188]Please explain what you mean by production improving with less tackles. What?[/quote]

I think he means he won't get the chance to make as many tackles because hopefully our LBs and DL can stop the running backs before they even get to the secondary. This will give ST more of an opportunity to roam around the field and snag passes as well as pulverize a poor little TO or Tony Romo. So while me may not have as many tackles, he has more of an opportunity to make ints, sacks, or plays for losses in the backfield.

Re: Sean Taylors play
 

[quote=angryssg;308188]Please explain what you mean by production improving with less tackles. What?[/quote]


Simply put, doing less on his part means he'll probably end up being more productive, being in postion more often than not. He was a run support demon last year. That can be directly attributed to the 'bites' and mis-reads and bad angles he got burned on last year.

I think he got caught looking in the back field too much last year and relied on athleticism to make for it. But this is the NFL, no amount of athleticism can make up for a five or ten yard jump, I don't care who you are.

Another thing, look at Ed Reed's stats from last year, or any comparable saftey at the same position, and you'll probably see they had significantly less tackles than Sean Taylor.

Re: Sean Taylors play
 

[quote=12thMan;308191]Simply put, doing less on his part means he'll probably end up being more productive, being in postion more often than not. He was a run support demon last year. That can be directly attributed to the 'bites' and mis-reads and bad angles he got burned on last year.

I think he got caught looking in the back field too much last year, and relied on athleticism to make for it. But this is the NFL, no amount of athleticism can make up for a five or ten yard jump, I don't care who you are.

Another thing, look at Ed Reed's stats from last year, or any comparable saftey at the same position, and you'll probably see they had significantly less tackles than Sean Taylor.[/quote]

I understand completely what you are saying. But consider this, production is production whether he gets it in tackles or INT's, it is still production. So I believe that a more appropriate way to explain what you are saying is shift his focus to be more productive against the pass and worry less about the run. Correct.

Re: Sean Taylors play
 

[quote=angryssg;308192]I understand completely what you are saying. But consider this, production is production whether he gets it in tackles or INT's, it is still production. So I believe that a more appropriate way to explain what you are saying is shift his focus to be more productive against the pass and worry less about the run. Correct.[/quote]


Sure, that's another way to put it....I guess:)

Re: Sean Taylors play
 

[quote=12thMan;308193]Sure, that's another way to put it....I guess:)[/quote]

You're welcome.

Re: Sean Taylors play
 

Using the word "regressed" is completely inaccurate when describing Taylors season last year. Regression is usually based on a trend, and Taylor had one down season, as did the entire defense. That is not a trend. It's a down season.

And describing his play for last season as poor is a matter of perspective. He blew a few coverages, but he had 35 more tackles last season, than the average of his first two seasons, so it's just as easy to say the front seven blew quite a few assignments as well. He obviously had to compensate for the lack of production around him, which directly affected his own production.

With the way the defense performed as a unit last season, it's ignorant to say that Taylor individually cost Washington any games.

Re: Sean Taylors play
 

[quote=GMScud;308060]Face it folks, he's a baaaaaad man and a freak athlete.


[URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLtuRfE6R-A"]YouTube - Sean Taylor From College To Da PROS[/URL][/quote]


Didn't we used to make the same arguements for another highly capable, pro-bowling, fan favorite and overall specimen named LaVar? don't get me wrong, i loved LaVar, but he was grossly overrated. In my eyes, so is ST. He COULD be great, but has yet to live up to expectations (more so last year, where he was not good at all).