Rocky McIntosh
 

There's no real news or anything here, other than that it appears that Rocky McIntosh has the leg up on Lemar Marshall for a starting job at this point. But I'm just a bit excited to see what the young fella can do in our defense. I mean, we know what Marcus Washington is going to give us, and Fletcher is a consistent vet who figures to play well in the middle as he's done his entire career. Rocky would seem to be the real wildcard of the LB group. If he develops into something we could have a real solid LB corps all the way across; and if he plays well against the run then our defense would appear to be balanced personnel-wise, and would represent a threat to attack from either side. Rocky could be a big key for us, I'm excited to watch his progress and see what he can do for us.

[QUOTE]Marshall said he met with new linebackers coach Kirk Olivadotti, who told him that Washington, Fletcher and Rocky McIntosh would be the starters, but that Marshall would have an opportunity to compete for a first-string job.[/QUOTE]

[URL]http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/05/17/AR2007051702206.html[/URL]

Re: Rocky McIntosh
 

Good news... I really think Lindsey had something to do with holding Rocky back last year.

Marshall is a great backup to have since he is so versatile. I hope he keeps a good attitude about coming off the bench.

Re: Rocky McIntosh
 

The right side of our defense makes me nervous. I hope AC and RM can hold it down cause you know teams are going to be running to that side.

Re: Rocky McIntosh
 

[quote=skinsfan69;311186]The right side of our defense makes me nervous. I hope AC and RM can hold it down cause you know teams are going to be running to that side.[/quote]

You're right. If their side holds up well against the run, I can easily see a return to the top 10. If their side doesn't, I can see us losing 8 games or more. It's a huge key for us.

Luckily last year Carter really came on at the end of the season, making mad tackles (several for loss) as well as a few sacks. So I'm encouraged there. We'll see what Rocky can bring behind him. As TMC has said before, he can't possibly be worse than Warrick Holdman.

Re: Rocky McIntosh
 

[quote=Schneed10;311188]You're right. If their side holds up well against the run, I can easily see a return to the top 10. If their side doesn't, I can see us losing 8 games or more. It's a huge key for us.

Luckily last year Carter really came on at the end of the season, making mad tackles (several for loss) as well as a few sacks. So I'm encouraged there. We'll see what Rocky can bring behind him. As TMC has said before, he can't possibly be worse than Warrick Holdman.[/quote]


that is true but with landry or taylor helping on that side and with a rotation with wynn coming in at times and evans i think we can hold it down

Re: Rocky McIntosh
 

Perhaps the time has come that the shroud of mystery concerning Rocky McIntosh is about to be unveiled. We were never presented with a clear-cut reason as to why he was not playing, according to today's article in the Wash.Post he's finally going to get his opportunity. It was also good to witness Marshall's attitude in reference to the change.

Re: Rocky McIntosh
 

[quote=Longtimefan;311223]Perhaps the time has come that the shroud of mystery concerning Rocky McIntosh is about to be unveiled. We were never presented with a clear-cut reason as to why he was not playing, according to today's article in the Wash.Post he's finally going to get his opportunity. It was also good to witness Marshall's attitude in reference to the change.[/quote]


maybe a clear cut reason is because lemar is better....

Re: Rocky McIntosh
 

[quote=chrisl4064;311277]maybe a clear cut reason is because lemar is better....[/quote]

That sure wouldn't explain why Olividatti told Lemar that Rocky is the starter.

Re: Rocky McIntosh
 

I don't think we would have problem with our right side because if somehow Rocky didn't live up to it, Lemar can come in.. Remember the 2004 season, he came in to replace LaVar when he got injured and Lemar played GREAT.. So..

Re: Rocky McIntosh
 

You guys are assuming a lot. You've got to much faith in the Redskins ablility to pick players (exp. Archelueta). Rocky needs to pick it up big time.

Re: Rocky McIntosh
 

personally i didnt see much difference between us selecting rocky last year in the second round compared to carolina selecting jon beason from miami or lawerence timmons from florida state in the first round. they all look at have the same attributes.

Re: Rocky McIntosh
 

[quote=chrisl4064;311277]maybe a clear cut reason is because lemar is better....[/quote]

Well if Lemar is better we pissed away a high second pick (along with the other pick or picks that I don't feel like researching right now). Lemar, when healthy, is a solid productive guy. McIntosh has the pedigree and ability to be great.

Re: Rocky McIntosh
 

[quote=number21isabadman;311286]personally i didnt see much difference between us selecting rocky last year in the second round compared to carolina selecting jon beason from miami or lawerence timmons from florida state in the first round. they all look at have the same attributes.[/quote]

Rocky is very very fast.

Re: Rocky McIntosh
 

[quote=Longtimefan;311223]Perhaps the time has come that the shroud of mystery concerning Rocky McIntosh is about to be unveiled. We were never presented with a clear-cut reason as to why he was not playing, according to today's article in the Wash.Post he's finally going to get his opportunity. It was also good to witness Marshall's attitude in reference to the change.[/quote]

I think that could be part of the reason Dale Lindsey got the ax. Some idiot thought Warrick Holdman was a starting caliber LB. Could Rocky have done any worse?? I doubt it. I personally can't wait to see the kid play. He is one of the 3 Redskins whose performance I am most anxiously anticipating (JC and Landry being the other 2).

Re: Rocky McIntosh
 

[quote=Mattyk72;311183]Good news... I really think Lindsey had something to do with holding Rocky back last year.

Marshall is a great backup to have since he is so versatile. I hope he keeps a good attitude about coming off the bench.[/quote]

I think Lindsey is a huge reason that Rocky rode the pine all year. I remember reading that alot of players were stunned that he was getting such a small amount of playing time because he looked so good in practice and was a stud on special teams. He looked good against the Rams with limited pt , and then had that great play getting Tiki in the backfield during the season finale. That was probaly the only time we tackled Tiki for a loss last season. Literally. Lindsey probaly had a feeling he was on the way out and did'nt want to push his luck by playing a rookie during his make or break season. Look's like that was the wrong move just like mishandeling lavar and not pushing harder to retain Pierce.

Re: Rocky McIntosh
 

Maybe it's on Lindsey to an extent. But isn't it (or is it) the responsibility of someone above Lindsey (Blache, Williams, Gibbs, Matty) to step in and say "Rocky's playing. You find a way to make it work" Or is that overstepping your bounds and not letting your subordinates do their job?

Re: Rocky McIntosh
 

[quote=SmootSmack;311360]Maybe it's on Lindsey to an extent. But isn't it (or is it) the responsibility of someone above Lindsey (Blache, Williams, Gibbs, Matty) to step in and say "Rocky's playing. You find a way to make it work" Or is that overstepping your bounds and not letting your subordinates do their job?[/quote]

Yeah, there is a fine line there. I think you could be right about the overstepping your bounds thing. Not to be cliche, but you lie in the bed you make. They hired Lindsey to oversee the LB's. Gibbs puts such a premium on veterans, and it's no secret G.Williams doesn't like to play rookies very much (Taylor, Rodgers, Rocky). But if you're the LB coach you tell the D. coordinator who should start. If Williams just says "NO," then what did they hire Lindsey for to begin with?

Obviously position coaches are very important. Look how our secondary regressed when Dewayne Walker left for UCLA (I know injuries played a role too). Hopefully we'll see the opposite effect with our LBs now that Lindsey is gone. Speaking of which, does anyone know anything about the new LB guy, Olividotti (sp)?

Re: Rocky McIntosh
 

I am very dissapointed by this move and the coaches have really made a big mistake here. Make Rocky and Lemar battle it out all summer and preseason and name your starter in late August. This is very disrespectful to a proven veteran and good Redskin like Lemar and serves no purpose but to make Lemar want to leave. How can you give a position away? A player needs to earn it. This is becoming a pattern, Andre Carter was given the DE job on day 1 of becoming a redskin with out any work to earn it. Carter proceeded to have a poor 3/4 of a season in 2006.
I do not care how much money a guy is making...you play the players that prove it ON THE FIELD and give you the best chance to win. Not where they are drafted or how much you gave up to get him. That is why we sucked last year. You think we would have learned from last year. I hope this not a repeat of the Carter situation. Rocky better earn the starting job and do a good job.
What happened to the old fashioned way of earning a starting spot?

Re: Rocky McIntosh
 

[quote=Defensewins;311402]I am very dissapointed by this move and the coaches have really made a big mistake here. Make Rocky and Lemar battle it out all summer and preseason and name your starter in late August. This is very disrespectful to a proven veteran and good Redskin like Lemar and serves no purpose but to make Lemar want to leave. How can you give a position away? A player needs to earn it. This is becoming a pattern, Andre Carter was given the DE job on day 1 of becoming a redskin with out any work to earn it. Carter proceeded to have a poor 3/4 of a season in 2006.
I do not care how much money a guy is making...you play the players that prove it ON THE FIELD and give you the best chance to win. Not where they are drafted or how much you gave up to get him. That is why we sucked last year. You think we would have learned from last year. I hope this not a repeat of the Carter situation. Rocky better earn the starting job and do a good job.
What happened to the old fashioned way of earning a starting spot?[/quote]


i think you are missing the point here rocky should have been on the field in 2006 but wasnt for whatever reason and in the games he started he played well and he was drafted for this soul purpose to start at that position and lemar's versatility makes him able to play all 3 linebacker spots it wasnt a shot of disrespect it is just what he was drafted for look at the broncos last year 7-4 before cutler was put in you could say he hadnt earned it but that is what he was drafted for so that is what it is and they didnt make the playoffs so when you draft someone to do something you have to put them in eventually

Re: Rocky McIntosh
 

[QUOTE=EARTHQUAKE2689;311465]i think you are missing the point here rocky should have been on the field in 2006 but wasnt for whatever reason and in the games he started he played well and he was drafted for this soul purpose to start at that position and lemar's versatility makes him able to play all 3 linebacker spots it wasnt a shot of disrespect it is just what he was drafted for look at the broncos last year 7-4 before cutler was put in you could say he hadnt earned it but that is what he was drafted for so that is what it is and they didnt make the playoffs so when you draft someone to do something you have to put them in eventually[/QUOTE]

You are missing my point. You will shoot yourself in the foot if you set your depth chart in May by where a player was drafted.
You play your best players regardless of pedigree and you let the players prove their worth on the field, not in a draft room.
In the 1981 draft, Mark may was the 1st round pick and top draft choice. Gibbs and Bugel benched May and instead started two young undrafted OL Joe Jacoby and Jeff Bostic and 3rd rounder Russ Grimm and used an old retred in George Starke in at May's position. Why? Because Starke was better than May at tht time and Starke gave us the better chance to win at that time. 1st round pick and top draft pick Mark may sat on the bench. May did not crack the starting line up for a couple of years later. That 1982 offensive line went on to win the super bowl with May on the bench 1983.

There are ton more examples:

In 1985 top draft pick CB Tory Nixon was a bust, but in that same draft 8th round pick Barry Wilburn became a starter, while not a great player he eventaully EARNED the starting job over an incomptent Tory Nixon.

In 1994 draft 8th round pick Gus Ferrotte became the better pro than 1st round pick Heath Shuler.

8th round pick OG Darryl Grant from tiny little Rice University was moved to DT and he started over our top pick in 1984 DT Bob Slater from Oklahoma. Slater never cracked the starting lineup and hurt his knee and was cut.
I could keep on going. There are a ton of examples.
Let the player prove it on the field. If Rocky comes in and gets a sack or interception or a several tackles behind he line of scrimmage, by all means start him! But that has not happened yet for whatever reason.

In today's Nfl with a salary cap and front office egos larger than ever, I guess you look bad if you start a lower drafted player over a higher drafted one. To them it means you made a mistake. Gibbs and Williams should not care and start whoever works best. That is a major problem with having your coach as your GM.

Re: Rocky McIntosh
 

[quote=Defensewins;311466]You are missing my point. You will shoot yourself in the foot if you set your depth chart in May by where a player was drafted.
You play your best players regardless of pedigree and you let the players prove their worth on the field, not in a draft room.
In the 1981 draft, Mark may was the 1st round pick and top draft choice. Gibbs and Bugel benched May and instead started two young undrafted OL Joe Jacoby and Jeff Bostic and 3rd rounder Russ Grimm and used an old retred in George Starke in at May's position. Why? Because Starke was better than May at tht time and Starke gave us the better chance to win at that time. 1st round pick and top draft pick Mark may sat on the bench. May did not crack the starting line up for a couple of years later. That 1982 offensive line went on to win the super bowl with May on the bench 1983.

There are ton more examples:
In 1985 top draft pick CB Tory Nixon was a bust, but in that same draft 8th round pick Barry Wilburn became a starter, while not a great player he eventaully EARNED the starting job over an incomptent Tory Nixon.

In 1994 draft 8th round pick Gus Ferrotte became the better pro than 1st round pick Heath Shuler.

8th round pick OG Darryl Grant from tiny little Rice University was moved to DT and he started over our top pick in 1984 DT Bob Slater from Oklahoma. Slater never cracked the starting lineup and hurt his knee and was cut.
I could keep on going. There are a ton of examples.
Let the player prove it on the field. If Rocky comes in and gets a sack or interception or a several tackles behind he line of scrimmage, by all means start him! But that has not happened yet for whatever reason.

In today's Nfl with a salary cap and front office egos larger than ever, I guess you look bad if you start a lower drafted player over a higher drafted one. To them it means you made a mistake. Gibbs and Williams should not care and start whoever works best. That is a major problem with having your coach as your GM.[/quote]


and there are a ton of examples of going the other way and they said rocky was going in as the starter that could change

Re: Rocky McIntosh
 

[QUOTE=EARTHQUAKE2689;311467]and there are a ton of examples of going the other way and they said rocky was going in as the starter that could change[/QUOTE]

Look up "devil's advocate" in the dictionary and Earthquake's picture will be there. You did miss his point, dude.

Re: Rocky McIntosh
 

[quote=dblanch66;311469]Look up "devil's advocate" in the dictionary and Earthquake's picture will be there. You did miss his point, dude.[/quote]


i know that the dictionary reference was not necessary and he missed my point i got his point the whole time

Re: Rocky McIntosh
 

I don't see how Rocky can be the clear cut starter already. Marshall was the starter last season. Did Rocky look that good in the OTA to replace Lemar?I wouldn't announce a starter til after the preseason. I was thinking that would be the big "fight" for a starting position during preseason, but it looks like the die is cast already. Either way we can't lose, but it is stange how they can just say Rocky is the starter out of the blue.

Re: Rocky McIntosh
 

I'm not sure why any coach would anoint McIntosh the starter. let him win it, or lose it, in preseason

Re: Rocky McIntosh
 

What I read is that the team set the depth chart so that Rocky, Fletcher, and Washington are the number one guys. Lemar doesn't just have the chance to beat out Rocky for the starting job, he can beat out any of the three. He was told specifically that he would be able to compete for a starting job, not just Rocky's starting job. I'm sure Lemar is going to be used to push Rocky and Fletcher.

Re: Rocky McIntosh
 

I think you push the LB's more if you make them all even and tell them the winner will start. The way Williams just did it, it gift wraps the job to Rocky with out a fight and is only really pushing Lemar to over throw the others. Not smart.
Go back to the old school way of proving you deserve to be the starter in camp and presaeson. Why suddenly do coaches worry about players egos? Back in the day coaches did not baby players.
One more thing, I am not sure why Lemar, who has busted his hump, been a succesfull starter for us in the past and been a great redskin getting the disrespect? The merit system is lost in this move. Does not send a good message to the players.

Re: Rocky McIntosh
 

[quote=Defensewins;311562]I think you push the LB's more if you make them all even and tell them the winner will start. The way Williams just did it, it gift wraps the job to Rocky with out a fight and is only really pushing Lemar to over throw the others. Not smart.
Go back to the old school way of proving you deserve to be the starter in camp and presaeson. Why suddenly do coaches worry about players egos? Back in the day coaches did not baby players.
One more thing, I am not sure why Lemar, who has busted his hump, been a succesfull starter for us in the past and been a great redskin getting the disrespect? The merit system is lost in this move. Does not send a good message to the players.[/quote]

I think either way you look at it, it's not a bad problem to have. These guys are professional athletes and I doubt any feelings are hurt.

LeMar really seems like a class act. I believe Marshall will play in a lot of nickel and blitz packages anyway. I wouldn't get too caught up in Williams' starting line-up, he does a lot of rotating and so forth.

LeMar will be fine, Rocky will be fine. Skins will be fine.

Re: Rocky McIntosh
 

rock has alot of upside but if the dline still stinks it doesnt matter how good rock or the other LB's are.

Re: Rocky McIntosh
 

[quote=GoSkins!;311521]What I read is that the team set the depth chart so that Rocky, Fletcher, and Washington are the number one guys. Lemar doesn't just have the chance to beat out Rocky for the starting job, he can beat out any of the three. He was told specifically that he would be able to compete for a starting job, not just Rocky's starting job. I'm sure Lemar is going to be used to push Rocky and Fletcher.[/quote]



it should have been been set as fletcher, washington and marshall as the starters with rocky having the chance to battle with lemar. marshall is a proven starting caliber lb in the nfl, rocky has yet to prove anything as far as i know.

Re: Rocky McIntosh
 

[quote=CHIEF CHUCKING MY SPEAR;311570]rock has alot of upside but if the dline still stinks it doesnt matter how good rock or the other LB's are.[/quote] Lets just hope the DL is healthy and Golston can improve off of last year . Maybe we find aother DE after June 1st .

Re: Rocky McIntosh
 

[quote=budw38;311610]Lets just hope the DL is healthy and Golston can improve off of last year . Maybe we find aother DE after June 1st .[/quote]


they will be he will be and we will

Re: Rocky McIntosh
 

[quote=wolfeskins;311592] marshall is a proven starting caliber lb in the nfl, rocky has yet to prove anything as far as i know.[/quote]

Yes, and if Rocky doesn't earn his starting job, Marshall will get it.

The thing about Marshall is that he knows all the LB positions. From a team standpoint, it makes more sense to have Rocky concentrate on his one position and try to earn it while having Marshall compete at all positions for depth. I'd rather have Marshall come of the bench for an injured LB than to have him starting outside and then switch him inside if Flecher gets injured and then bring in Rocky off the bench.

In other words, Rocky doesn't have enough expereince to be the primary backup at all LB positions. We hope that he can be good enough to earn one spot.

Re: Rocky McIntosh
 

i think a lot of people on this board HOPE that rocky will be good and turning that into "he has the ability to be great"

what out of this guy have you seen that makes you think he has the potential to be great?

lemar got the job done and is very underated obviously by reading this thread.

rocky is fast because hes not that big.

i hope the kid turns out good too, but remember just because we invested a lot in this dude doesnt mean that we should make a huge fan calling for him to start. i think pulling lemar would be a terrible idea personally. i know im not a coach, but lemar was not the reason we were losing games, i think starting rocky is a mistake unless he really is showing impressive looks in camp.

Re: Rocky McIntosh
 

Marshall took a step back last year. Whether it was due to injury or the overall collective collapse of the D who knows, but either way McIntosh is the young stud on the block who's physically a much more talented player.

I don't think it's written in stone that Rocky is starting ahead of Marshall. He's still going to have to solidify himself as the starter in training camp.

Re: Rocky McIntosh
 

[quote=Mattyk72;312058]Marshall took a step back last year. Whether it was due to injury or the overall collective collapse of the D who knows, but either way McIntosh is the young stud on the block who's physically a much more talented player.

I don't think it's written in stone that Rocky is starting ahead of Marshall. He's still going to have to solidify himself as the starter in training camp.[/quote]


what im saying is how much have we seen of him to say hes a much more physically talented player? marshall is a solid player for us and removing him from being a starter just to give rocky time could prove to be a huge mistake. we gave up a lot for him which at the time i didnt and still dont agree with. i hope that all of you prove me wrong and he turns out to be an incredible player, i just am not going to put all of my faith in him just yet, especially to start over a guy that has been good for us the past couple years.

Re: Rocky McIntosh
 

[quote=chrisl4064;312068]what im saying is how much have we seen of him to say hes a much more physically talented player? marshall is a solid player for us and removing him from being a starter just to give rocky time could prove to be a huge mistake. we gave up a lot for him which at the time i didnt and still dont agree with. i hope that all of you prove me wrong and he turns out to be an incredible player, i just am not going to put all of my faith in him just yet, especially to start over a guy that has been good for us the past couple years.[/quote]

You don't have to see much to be able to make a comparison.

Marshall is solid but he's not anything special from an athletic standpoint. Rocky on the other hand is younger, faster and quicker.

If Williams has already penciled in Rocky as the starter I think that's saying something.

Re: Rocky McIntosh
 

[quote=Mattyk72;312058]Marshall took a step back last year. Whether it was due to injury or the overall collective collapse of the D who knows, but either way McIntosh is the young stud on the block who's physically a much more talented player.

I don't think it's written in stone that Rocky is starting ahead of Marshall. He's still going to have to solidify himself as the starter in training camp.[/quote]


he will and i hope that he does cause he has all the tools to be a good weak side linebacker in the NFL

Re: Rocky McIntosh
 

Any word on Washington's surgery or rehab at all in the DC media guys? Will he be ready to roll come Sept? He is our beast at LB, but he might not be the same guy if the surgery didn't do the trick. We had better hope that Rocky really steps up his game, just in case.

Re: Rocky McIntosh
 

[quote=GusFrerotte;312361]Any word on Washington's surgery or rehab at all in the DC media guys? Will he be ready to roll come Sept? He is our beast at LB, but he might not be the same guy if the surgery didn't do the trick. We had better hope that Rocky really steps up his game, just in case.[/quote]


he has been practicing

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/05/17/AR2007051702206.html]washingtonpost.com[/url]