Dan Snyder is going to make his move.
 

[url]http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm[/url]

'SKINS STILL ANGLING FOR O-GUN

A league source tells us that Redskins owner Dan Snyder is passing word through intermediaries to Miami defensive end Adewale Ogunleye that Snyder eventually will swing a trade for the unsigned free agent -- and then reward him with a healthy contract.

Snyder, we hear, is encouraging Ogunleye to be patient as Snyder prepares to make his move.

Ogunleye and the Dolphins have been at odds throughout the offseason. The Fins slapped him with the highest possible RFA tender, requiring any team interested in signing him to an offer sheet to be ready to pony up a first-round and a third-round draft pick.

Ogunleye, meanwhile, has openly lobbied for a long-term deal or a trade, threatening not to sign his tender until after the seventh week of the regular season. The team responded by cutting his tender dramatically on June 15.

Rumors of a trade to the Redskins (possibly involving offensive tackle Chris Samuels in return) have been swirling for weeks. The thinking in some circles is that, as the Dolphins get closer to the start of the regular season, they'll be more willing to take a player or some draft picks in return for a disgruntled pass rusher who probably won't be in a position to make a difference for the Dolphins until November.

Stay tuned.

I wouldn't give away Samuels for a pass rusher. Everyone has kind of been down on Sam but trust me, the guy makes a very big difference on our O-Line. I'd trade a first round pick and perhaps a 6th rounder for Ogunleye but not Samuels.

I like this move. The D-Line is an area of need and we cannot rely solely on blitzes to pressure opposing qb's. I'm not sure we need to say goodbye to Samuels to do this, but honestly, after the subpar performance of the last two years, I wouldn't shed too many tears. I will be pissed if we give up Samuels and a high draft pick. Ogunleye seems like the real deal, even if he was playing opposite Jason Taylor.

[QUOTE=saden1]I wouldn't give away Samuels for a pass rusher. Everyone has kind of been down on Sam but trust me, the guy makes a very big difference on our O-Line. I'd trade a first round pick and perhaps a 6th rounder for Ogunleye but not Samuels.[/QUOTE]
I agree. I expect Samuels to recapture his Pro Bowl form working with Joe Bugel in Joe Gibbs' offensive system. Plus, I'm not convinced Ogunleye would be nearly as productive in Washington as he was in Miami, playing opposite Jason Taylor. The guy is talented, for sure, and is better than anything the Redskins have right now, but giving up Samuels to acquire him would be a big mistake. Also, the Dolphins would have to figure out a way to squeeze Samuels into an already very tight cap space, and Samuels has already indicated he doesn't want to renegotiate this year. Additionally, I'm sure Samuels wants the opportunity to improve himself under Bugel's guidance, and conversely, Bugel wants the opportunity to coach Samuels into the best player he can be.

Well then, Joe, what would you see as a fair value for Ogunleye? Draft picks?

Remember everyone, the source is profootballtalk.com's rumor mill, not the Almight Father. I can't believe half the stuff I read on that site.

[QUOTE=Ramseyfan]Remember everyone, the source is profootballtalk.com's rumor mill, not the Almight Father. I can't believe half the stuff I read on that site.[/QUOTE]

I'm not familiar with them. I assumed they were credible. Has there been issues in the past?

well, its a rumor mill, as in may or may not be true ;) could just be wishful thinking, or a test bubble to see if there's any real interest...

[QUOTE= That Rumor Mill Site]From the "There's a Freaking Shocker" file: The Panthers and the Postons [url="http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/sports/football/nfl/carolina_panthers/9222510.htm"]aren't close on a deal[/url] for first-round CB Chris Gamble.[/QUOTE]
those poston's are just so consistant...

It's a tuff call, but who else could we get as a pass rusher??? Gibbs isn't going to be here when players develope...so using the draft is going to be tuff. He wants proven players

I am all in favor of sending a 1st round pick to Miami for Ogunleye, but sending Samuals would be a major mistake. Steve Spurrier's shotty protection scheme made all of our linemen look bad. Before Spurrier Samuals was a stud and after Spurrier he will be a stud again. If the Redskins are thinking of trading a player look for them to trade a position where they have alot of depth like WR. That also happens to be one of Miami's week spots. As far as Snyder telling Ogunleye to hang in there, That sounds a lot like tampering to me, I don't think he would be that stupid.

[QUOTE=BleedBurgundy]Well then, Joe, what would you see as a fair value for Ogunleye? Draft picks?[/QUOTE]
Value is all in the eye of the beholder-- or in this case, a team like the Redskins who may just be desperate enough for a consistent pass rush that they would be willing to part with a first-round pick, or more, to acquire a guy who led the AFC in sacks. The Skins have shown that they place a higher value on young, proven veterans than young, inexperienced rookies-- and that they favor parting with draft picks to acquire the former over the latter.

As far as what [i][b]I[/b][/i] would consider a fair value for Ogunleye, I don't think I'd give up more than a 2nd rounder for him-- and since the Skins dealt away next year's 2nd round pick in order to draft Chris Cooley in the 3rd round this year, they would have to sacrifice either a 1st or a 3rd, or both, in order to acquire Ogunleye. It might sound outrageous to some that I don't think Ogunleye is worth a first-round pick-- especially given the Skins' dire need for a pass rusher-- but I truly believe that he has benefitted enormously not only from playing in tandem with Jason Taylor, but just as importantly, from playing alongside a couple of thick-bodied tackles in 325-lb Larry Chester and 320-lb Tim Bowens-- not to mention the rest of the stellar cast in that Dolphins defense.

Take Ogunleye and put him in a lineup with any of the likes of Wynn, Daniels, Griffin, Haley, Noble and Upshaw, and he'll be lucky to be half as productive as he was in Miami. But add a big, run-stopping defensive tackle like one of the guys young 'Wale played with in Miami, and then you might be onto something. As much as the Redskins might need a pass rusher, they need a true monster in the middle even more. As it stands now, the Skins have nobody to clog up the middle, and nobody to rush the passer outside of Arrington and Washington.

Adding Ogunleye alone might gently nudge the pass rush up to the level of mediocrity, but it won't do anything for the lack of beefiness up front that is necessary to stop the run. What's the key to a championship defense? You guessed it-- stopping the run. If you can't do that, then teams won't need to pass the ball, because they'll be too busy boosting Eddie George's career yards per carry average into the realm of respectability. What's the best thing you can say about the Redskins run defense from 2003? Well, they [i]did[/i] finish 21st in yards allowed per rushing attempt, at 4.4 yards per carry. Aside from that awe-inspiring number, they finished tied for 24th in yards per game, allowing 138.6 yards per contest, and 29th in rushing touchdowns allowed, with opposing runners spiking the ball on paydirt a mere 20 times.

Still think the pass rush is the Redskins' most glaring weakness this season? Yeah, I'd give up a second rounder for Ogunleye, but I'd sacrifice the top picks in the next two drafts for a couple of 320-pounders who can eat up blockers and stuff opposing runners as capably as they put $8 dinner buffets out of business.

Sorry if I sound a bit "Curmudgeon"-ly, but Wally Ogunleye isn't the solution to all the Redskins' defensive woes, and he damn sure isn't worth sacrificing a key member of the offensive line to get him. Nor will ridding Samuels' salary number from the books help-- not when the deal necessary to secure Ogunleye's services would likely negate most of the benefit from that maneuver, one way or another.

Argh I hate PFT, total garbage site.

[QUOTE=Dana87]As far as Snyder telling Ogunleye to hang in there, That sounds a lot like tampering to me, I don't think he would be that stupid.[/QUOTE]

thats the same thing I was thinking. I'd do the trade if its a smart trade cuz this would help provide us with another playmaker on defense and not force Williams to blitz arrington and washington as much. if we aquired Ogun. then we could dump wynn's salary and that'd be a huge upgrade in my opinion. But with next years crop of de's coming from college I'm a bit on the edge about this cuz as I've stated in other threads before, Chris Canty of UVA is gonna be a monster who might slip to our selection in the mid to early 20s in the first round. Personally I'd rather see a guy be brought into the league as a skin than having traded for a new skin, but if the talents there to fix a hole on the team then it might be worth the move to plug said hole.

If we do make a trade for Ogunlyeye, it has to be draft picks. No question about it. I mean, we would HAVE to use our first rounder next year on a Defensive Linmen. We would just have to. We have no other area of dire need.

Our dline, should be ok next year, but nothing more than ok. Even when they have a good game, they will proboly be nothing more than solid. The way I see it, a first rounder for Ogunleye would just be like making our first round draft pick a little early.

I am not so sure AO is worth a first round pick but I can imagine that is what is on offer. I can only think of one notable player we have traded in Champ and we had not much choice also if the site is right Snyder has been very close to tampering and given what happened last year with Milloy I cannot see the front office going down this road again.

[QUOTE=joecrisp]Take Ogunleye and put him in a lineup with any of the likes of Wynn, Daniels, Griffin, Haley, Noble and Upshaw, and he'll be lucky to be half as productive as he was in Miami. But add a big, run-stopping defensive tackle like one of the guys young 'Wale played with in Miami, and then you might be onto something. As much as the Redskins might need a pass rusher, they need a true monster in the middle even more. As it stands now, the Skins have nobody to clog up the middle, and nobody to rush the passer outside of Arrington and Washington. [/QUOTE]

Joe, I tend to think of this one from the other angle. I think one excellent pass rusher (which he certainly is) can transform a mediocre line. And with our LB's (and Williams' plans for using them so aggressively), that is even more the case.

Now as far as Samuels, I agree with you. But I don't believe we will have to give up Samuels. This came up in a thread a few weeks back, and I suggested a certain player at our DEEPEST position, and it started a firestorm with one of the kids here who insisted Miami did not need that position - so I won't mention it again LOL. But I still think that is what will eventually happen. Of course, a top draft pick will obviously have to be part of the deal.

[QUOTE=joecrisp]
Still think the pass rush is the Redskins' most glaring weakness this season? Yeah, I'd give up a second rounder for Ogunleye, but I'd sacrifice the top picks in the next two drafts for a couple of 320-pounders who can eat up blockers and stuff opposing runners as capably as they put $8 dinner buffets out of business.
(QUOTE]

Alright, I see your point, i just think that the D-line as a whole has been week. Unless there is an available High-level DT out there, I think we'd be best served at least fixing one part of the problem, versus none at all. I do agree with you that Ogunleye's production will fall off this year if he comes to us, because he's going to see a lot of double teams. But that can benefit our marginable D-lineman and help them have some more success.

By the way, how is Ogunleye against the run?

[QUOTE=joecrisp] I truly believe that he has benefitted enormously not only from playing in tandem with Jason Taylor, but just as importantly, from playing alongside a couple of thick-bodied tackles in 325-lb Larry Chester and 320-lb Tim Bowens-- not to mention the rest of the stellar cast in that Dolphins defense.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=BleedBurgundy]By the way, how is Ogunleye against the run?[/QUOTE]

Well, if tackles are an indication (and I think they are), he is better than decent. He had 64 tackles last year, more than almost all DE's, including Simeon Rice and Jason Taylor. Remember, those 64 tackles do not include the 16 sacks. He had more sacks, more solo tackles, and as many assists as Jason Taylor. I'm not saying he is better than Taylor, but don't discount his numbers because of Taylor. We did not discount discount Charles Mann's because of Manley and Butz...

think about this guys. We have no one on our line that deserves a double team. If we have Wale and he gets double teamed that opens us up to a lot of other options. Whose goign to pick up lavar blocking weakside now if they have to double him?!? weve got great linebackers and Griffin and Daniels are solid players. I think a solid end will be key to us taking that next step this year. I want us to give up our first though, not samuels. If we get rid of sameuls that leaves us with possibly a rookie and dockerys on teh right side...which doesnt look to promising, I dont care who our oline coach is thats not great protection.

Anyone know if Madden has already been produced? or is there a chance if we make this trade soon that they could update the rosters?

Well said, Canes. I would like to see if Samuels can get back to his form of 3 years ago with good coaching. But I really think it will take more than a first round pick. Probably that pick and a much lesser player than Samuels.

[QUOTE=SKINSnCANES]Anyone know if Madden has already been produced? or is there a chance if we make this trade soon that they could update the rosters?[/QUOTE]

They are pretty good about roster updates. It's one of the main reasons Madden kicks all forms of ass.

No...Madden starts mass production around mid July, but it will be on the updated roster in late August, IF...he were traded.

How does that work, how would i get my roster to be updated on my game? How could I dl something to my playstation, I guess you have to have your ps2 online? If any of you hvae done this can you fill me in on how it works, thanks.

So now with Williams retiring, think they will be asking for Ladell Betts instead of Samuels? :lol: