Dr. Death is free
 

[url=http://www.allheadlinenews.com/articles/7007518250]AHN | "Dr. Death" Released From Jail After More Than Eight Years | June 1, 2007[/url]

Jack Kevorkian, the former Michigan-based pathologist and the purported public advocate of terminal patients' right to die, was released from prison Friday more than eight years after he was convicted in the assisted suicide-murder of Thomas Youk of Oakland County, Michigan. The 79-year-old, nicknamed "Doctor Death" by some, was convicted in 1999 and sentenced to a maximum 10 to 25 year sentence, however he earned time off his sentence for good behavior.

Re: Dr. Death is free
 

I watched a program once about when he would kill people. He taped it. It was so weird... strange and VERY disturbing. Most of the people he was killing were completely lucid and very aware, with there families watchig... it just freaked me out!

Re: Dr. Death is free
 

Why is it ok to put animals to sleep, but not a person who is chronically ill and it's their own wish to die??

Re: Dr. Death is free
 

If we start thinking that way, then every time someone gets sick you might as well give them a prescription of sleeping pills and tell them to end it whenever they so choose. If you are going to higher a doc to do it, you are only separating yourself from the responsibility of taking your own life, and in doing so hoping in some way to justify it to your loved ones and others. Anyway you look at it, it’s taking a life before it was time to go.

Re: Dr. Death is free
 

oh, and the difference between animals and humans? Humans have free will.

Re: Dr. Death is free
 

[quote=Mattyk72;315027]Why is it ok to put animals to sleep, but not a person who is chronically ill and it's their own wish to die??[/quote]
whats funny is he helps people that want to die. go sell some crack, and you would do less time in prison. thats messed up

Re: Dr. Death is free
 

[quote=Mattyk72;315027]Why is it ok to put animals to sleep, but not a person who is chronically ill and it's their own wish to die??[/quote]

Why is it okay to strap an ox to a plow and make him pull the thing around all day in the hot sun?

If someone wants to die, then they should nut up and do it themselves. Don't drag other people into it. Of course, I don't think it took too much dragging with Dr. K. He strikes me as a bit of a ghoul.

Re: Dr. Death is free
 

[quote=hesscl34;315029]If we start thinking that way, then every time someone gets sick you might as well give them a prescription of sleeping pills and tell them to end it whenever they so choose. If you are going to higher a doc to do it, you are only separating yourself from the responsibility of taking your own life, and in doing so hoping in some way to justify it to your loved ones and others. Anyway you look at it, it’s taking a life before it was time to go.[/quote]

If you're terminally ill I think it should be your choice to end your own life.

After all, it's your life, right?

Re: Dr. Death is free
 

[quote=Mattyk72;315041]If you're terminally ill I think it should be your choice to end your own life.

After all, it's your life, right?[/quote]

Many terminally ill people die a .............bad death...very painful and protracted.
Dr. D performed a valuable service to people who did not want to deal with that. The law should not interfere with that.

Re: Dr. Death is free
 

[quote=Mattyk72;315041]If you're terminally ill I think it should be your choice to end your own life.

After all, it's your life, right?[/quote]

By definition it is their choice. No one can stop a person from committing suicide. The problem is dragging medicine into the process which is a slippery slope towards soylent green, etc. If doctors start ending life regularly they might take it upon themselves to start making the decisions. Or the government might start doing cost analysis and so forth.

The other thing is that I think Doctors have been known to prescribe medication for a terminal patient in a kind of informal way. I suspect Jackie O. went that way. The whole family marches in to say goodbye and the next morning she's gone? Maybe she was just fortunate. Kevorkian actually makes that more difficult because he is such a camera-hog and a ghoul. Taping the deaths and using that ridiculous machine. It stirs up things in an unhelpful way.

Re: Dr. Death is free
 

Is attempting suicide illegal?

Re: Dr. Death is free
 

[quote=Mattyk72;315054]Is attempting suicide illegal?[/quote]

Good question. The libertarian in me says its shouldn't be. But what if you had a Closeau-like figure who consistently failed to finish the job? The rope breaks. The car in the garage runs out of gas. A truck full of pillows drives under the building at exactly the right (wrong) moment. It could cost a fortune in health care.

Re: Dr. Death is free
 

I'm all for euthanasia. I have no problem with it at all. There are plenty of ways I don't want to die and there are also many ways in which I will refuse to live. If I am able to avoid a horribly painful death, then why shouldn't I be allowed to do that? I think people should be able to decide for themselves, and I don't think they should be required to kill themselves. If a doctor wants to provide that "service" it should be his personal preference, but I believe the person should be required to be of sound mind.

I was actually having this discussion with a guy a work with today. We both kind of agreed that there are plenty of diseases I don't want to have to live with. If I could have a doctor euthanize me, I would strongly consider it in those cases.

Re: Dr. Death is free
 

We aren't talking about euthanization of mentally ill people here. These are people who are often old and terminally ill who wish to end their life in a humane manner. They have free will and as such should be allowed to determine their own destiny.

Re: Dr. Death is free
 

[quote=jdlea;315069]I'm all for euthanasia. I have no problem with it at all. There are plenty of ways I don't want to die and there are also many ways in which I will refuse to live. If I am able to avoid a horribly painful death, then why shouldn't I be allowed to do that? I think people should be able to decide for themselves, and I don't think they should be required to kill themselves. If a doctor wants to provide that "service" it should be his personal preference, but I believe the person should be required to be of sound mind.

I was actually having this discussion with a guy a work with today. We both kind of agreed that there are plenty of diseases I don't want to have to live with. If I could have a doctor euthanize me, I would strongly consider it in those cases.[/quote]


I'm the exact opposite. I would much rather do it myself than involve anyone else. I mean dead is dead, right?

Re: Dr. Death is free
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;315054]Is attempting suicide illegal?[/QUOTE]

Based on the current laws in place, yes it is. You will almost certainly lose your freedom if you fail and are caught. Apparently it isn't in [URL="http://www.slate.com/id/2167295"]Japan[/URL] though.

Re: Dr. Death is free
 

[QUOTE=70Chip;315084]I'm the exact opposite. I would much rather do it myself than involve anyone else. I mean dead is dead, right?[/QUOTE]

Dead is dead but the prospect of a failed suicide attempt is just not something I would want to go through. I want the job to be quick and done right on the first try.

Re: Dr. Death is free
 

[quote=Mattyk72;315041]If you're terminally ill I think it should be your choice to end your own life.

After all, it's your life, right?[/quote]

I agree, if you are "terminally ill" it should be your choice.

What is the difference between being put on life support and NOT wanting to be.....? Hopefully if you had a living will and stated you did not want to live like that.

Your loved ones could make a descission to pull the plug.

Re: Dr. Death is free
 

I cannot see how killing yourself, or bringing in a 3rd party to assist you in killing yourself, is wrong. As long as there are checks to ensure the individual is lucid, I also don't buy the slippery slope argument.

Re: Dr. Death is free
 

[QUOTE=70Chip;315084]I'm the exact opposite. I would much rather do it myself than involve anyone else. I mean dead is dead, right?[/QUOTE]

I suppose, but if they can make it so I don't feel anything, I'd prefer to go out that way

Re: Dr. Death is free
 

If you really want to go, and want to go out with medicine, then who cares.

If someone wants to do it, there going to do it. Might as well make it easy on them. Government should really be hands off on things like this.

It's one thing if you harm or endanger the lives of others, it's a completely different ballgame when you want to go out on your own.

Re: Dr. Death is free
 

Slippery slope in Switzerland:

[url=http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/06/03/wsuicide03.xml]Swiss suicide clinics 'helping depressives die' | International News | News | Telegraph[/url]

Re: Dr. Death is free
 

[quote=dmek25;315036]whats funny is he helps people that want to die. go sell some crack, and you would do less time in prison. thats messed up[/quote]
He was warned by a judge or court not to assist in any more deaths but he went anyways and did it again. Thats what really got him into trouble.

Re: Dr. Death is free
 

[quote=RobH4413;315118]If you really want to go, and want to go out with medicine, then who cares.

If someone wants to do it, there going to do it. Might as well make it easy on them. Government should really be hands off on things like this.

It's one thing if you harm or endanger the lives of others, it's a completely different ballgame when you want to go out on your own.[/quote]
So are u saying that you are for or against what he was doing.

Re: Dr. Death is free
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;315104]I cannot see how killing yourself, or bringing in a 3rd party to assist you in killing yourself, is wrong. As long as there are checks to ensure the individual is lucid, I also don't buy the slippery slope argument.[/quote]

Can you explain why you don't buy the slippery slope argument?

There seems to be a movement going around where people just dismiss the slippery slope argument, but there has to be some reasoning behind it? I'd like to believe it because I'd like to think people should be able to end their lives if they're terminally ill, but I can't get by the slippery slope of allowing euthinasia.

Re: Dr. Death is free
 

[quote=70Chip;315304]Slippery slope in Switzerland:

[URL="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/06/03/wsuicide03.xml"]Swiss suicide clinics 'helping depressives die' | International News | News | Telegraph[/URL][/quote]

This is the perfect example of how the slippery slope can bite you in the ass on an issue.

Re: Dr. Death is free
 

the possibilities in "Death Tourism" are endless!
Hmmm........Love boat...............Death boat......Suicide boat??? Club med...............club death..............Hedonism.............

Re: Dr. Death is free
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10;315360]Can you explain why you don't buy the slippery slope argument?

There seems to be a movement going around where people just dismiss the slippery slope argument, but there has to be some reasoning behind it? I'd like to believe it because I'd like to think people should be able to end their lives if they're terminally ill, but I can't get by the slippery slope of allowing euthinasia.[/QUOTE]

I think it's best that I know precisely what slippery slope argument you believe in before I start rebutting it. I can guess what you'll say, but I guess I prefer to hear it "straight from the horses mouth."

Re: Dr. Death is free
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;315409]I think it's best that I know precisely what slippery slope argument you believe in before I start rebutting it. I can guess what you'll say, but I guess I prefer to hear it "straight from the horses mouth."[/quote]

My thing is if Dr. Jack is allowed to help people committ suicide, won't there invariably be more doctors entering into this service? After all, this is a market-based economy, if there is money to be made by assisting the terminally ill to end their lives, docs are going to get involved. The economics are going to provide an incentive for these docs to perform more assisted suicides.

And working where I work (hospital financial administration) I can tell you that hospitals would have a financial incentive to see the terminally ill moved out of the beds. One of the biggest financial drains a hospital faces are the patients who just sit and sit and sit in beds without getting better. A hospital can save over $100,000 by getting a patient out of a bed after a one-week stay compared to a four or five-week stay.

Those two economic factors set up a perfect set of conditions for the greedy and ethically questionable docs and hospitals to push for assisted suicide when it may not be medically necessary/desirable. That article 70-Chip posted about suicide clinics in Europe highlights the troubles you face in trying to determine whether pain and suffering is related to a terminal illness, or simply a temporary result of depression and other mental illnesses. I can easily see docs and hospitals relying on the patient's reported pain and suffering, claiming that assisted suicide is ethical in this situation, all the while hiding that the true cause of the pain is the depression that sets in from having a dangerous illness.

The economic factors here will cause the medical community to push the envelope on this issue. It would require so much governmental oversight to ensure ethics were upheld that the cost likely would not be worth it. In this circumstance, it seems the financial conditions are in place to actually push people further down the slippery slope.