Top 5 coaches now
 

I was looking through the top5 coaches forum and wanted to post, but then realized im just 18 and cant post because of lack of knowlege about the past. So this forum is for the top 5 present coaches (including guys who retired this past season)

1. Bill Bellicheck (for 3 obvious reasons)
2. Andy Reid (his team has been dominating this league since I can remember)
3. Sean Payton/Eric Mangini (I know they only have one year under their belts, but they turned the second and 3rd worst teams into playoff teams)
4. Tony Dungy (Manning isnt the only reason why their team has been so dominant)
5. Mike Shanahan (the Broncos have been a force in the NFL since he has been with them)
5.5 Joe Gibbs (Im a redskins fan and therefore obligated to put him on this list, all time accomplishments he would be higher though, but he hasnt proven himself in this 2nd stint)

Re: Top 5 coaches now
 

I'd put Jeff Fisher in that top 5 somewhere. Probably take out Mangini/Payton

Re: Top 5 coaches now
 

I think Mangini and Payton deserve to be on that list DEF! Like SmootSmack said, they took the worst teams in their division in playoff teams and in Payton's case, Division champs! They deserve it....

Re: Top 5 coaches now
 

[QUOTE=JGisLordOfTheRings;336412]I think Mangini and Payton deserve to be on that list DEF! Like SmootSmack said, they took the worst teams in their division in playoff teams and in Payton's case, Division champs! They deserve it....[/QUOTE]

I didn't say that

Re: Top 5 coaches now
 

[quote=SmootSmack;336413]I didn't say that[/quote]

I want trying to say that Fisher doesnt belong because he did a good job last year but, I believe a lot of their success was VY.

Re: Top 5 coaches now
 

billicheck
dungy
reid
shanahan
lovie smith

Cant put gibbs in on what he done in the past. This is for what they are doing now. These guys have been better than Gibbs in the last 3 yrs.

Re: Top 5 coaches now
 

[quote=BeastsoftheNFCeast;336410]I was looking through the top5 coaches forum and wanted to post, but then realized im just 18 and cant post because of lack of knowlege about the past. So this forum is for the top 5 present coaches (including guys who retired this past season)

1. Bill Bellicheck (for 3 obvious reasons)
2. Andy Reid (his team has been dominating this league since I can remember)
3. Sean Payton/Eric Mangini (I know they only have one year under their belts, but they turned the second and 3rd worst teams into playoff teams)
4. Tony Dungy (Manning isnt the only reason why their team has been so dominant)
5. Mike Shanahan (the Broncos have been a force in the NFL since he has been with them)
5.5 Joe Gibbs (Im a redskins fan and therefore obligated to put him on this list, all time accomplishments he would be higher though, but he hasnt proven himself in this 2nd stint)[/quote]

I think Belichick (The Hoody) is a cheat, but he's still a pretty good coach. Reid is pretty good, and he'd be even better if he had a QB with some guts. Payton and Mangini, please! After only one season? Dungy, great coach even better person. Shanahan has proven himself in the past, but not much lately. Overall, a pretty fair assessment. I'd have to go with:

1. Tony Dungy
2. Joe Gibbs
3. The Hoody
4. Mike Shanahan
5. Mike Holmgren

All my choices have gotten their teams to the big stage and won at least one Super Bowl.

Re: Top 5 coaches now
 

Love Gibbs to death, but he 'aint in the top 5.

Re: Top 5 coaches now
 

Gibbs in only there on his 80's record. Not on his comeback

Re: Top 5 coaches now
 

Top 5 in my mind:

5. Tony Dungy (Put together some of the best defenses ever in Tampa Bay, won superbowl last season)

4. Andy Reid (Went to four straight NFC Championships and superbowl with the Eagles)

3. Mike Shanahan (Had one of the most consistent winning teams in the AFC with the Broncos)

2. Mike Holmgren (The guy has always had some great offenses with Green Bay and Seattle. Also has went to 2 Superbowls with 2 different teams)

1. Bill Belichek (I don't think you can argue this choice. Has completely turned around the Patriots by winning 3 superbowls)

I would of loved to put Joe Gibbs up there, and if this was a question about the best coaches in the league right now over all-time, Gibbs would probably be near the top.

Re: Top 5 coaches now
 

[QUOTE=SlabHurta;336455]Top 5 in my mind:

5. Tony Dungy (Put together some of the best defenses ever in Tampa Bay, won superbowl last season)

4. Andy Reid (Went to four straight NFC Championships and superbowl with the Eagles)

3. Mike Shanahan (Had one of the most consistent winning teams in the AFC with the Broncos)

2. Mike Holmgren (The guy has always had some great offenses with Green Bay and Seattle. Also has went to 2 Superbowls with 2 different teams)

1. Bill Belichek (I don't think you can argue this choice. Has completely turned around the Patriots by winning 3 superbowls)

I would of loved to put Joe Gibbs up there, and if this was a question about the best coaches in the league right now over all-time, Gibbs would probably be near the top.[/QUOTE]

You just cited all-time stats for all the above coaches, and Gibbs' credentials are as good if not better than any of them.

Re: Top 5 coaches now
 

Wow, no mention of Wade Phillips?

j/k

Gruden had a shot at the top 5 before the last couple of years but not now.
I'd go with:

1) Bill Belichek - even though I agree with whoever thought he was a cheater. I can't put my finger on it but I swear he's doing something outside of the rules of the game somehow.

2) Andy Reid - hard to argue with 4 straight NFC championship games plus last year's amazing finish.

3) Herm Edwards - I just think he is a very focused man and knows how to maximize the resources he has onhand.

4) Mike Holmgren - Been coaching for a long time and taking two teams to SuperBowls is a great accomplishment.

5) Joe Gibbs - homer reasons only; but I'd like to add that I really love his commitment to the team and his selfless ability to step down and bring in topnotch coaches. If you're not buying that then just stick Shanahan in there even though I think he cheats (no proof) as well.

Re: Top 5 coaches now
 

[quote=724Skinsfan;336460]Wow, no mention of Wade Phillips?

j/k

Gruden had a shot at the top 5 before the last couple of years but not now.
I'd go with:

1) Bill Belichek - even though I agree with whoever thought he was a cheater. I can't put my finger on it but I swear he's doing something outside of the rules of the game somehow.

2) Andy Reid - hard to argue with 4 straight NFC championship games plus last year's amazing finish.

3) Herm Edwards - I just think he is a very focused man and knows how to maximize the resources he has onhand.

4) Mike Holmgren - Been coaching for a long time and taking two teams to SuperBowls is a great accomplishment.

5) Joe Gibbs - homer reasons only; but I'd like to add that I really love his commitment to the team and his selfless ability to step down and bring in topnotch coaches. If you're not buying that then just stick Shanahan in there even though I think he cheats (no proof) as well.[/quote]

Herm Edwards? Really? And yes Belichick is a cheater in more ways than one!

[url=http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/04023/264687.stm]Collier: Cheating pays dividends for Patriots and Coach What's-his-name[/url]
[url=http://sports-law.blogspot.com/2006/11/bill-belichick-trying-to-delay.html]Sports Law Blog[/url]

Re: Top 5 coaches now
 

I'll say, in no particular order:

Joe Gibbs
Mike Holmgren
Tony Dungy
Jeff Fisher
Bill Belichick

Kind of tempted to find some spot for Brian Billick there

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[quote=ncskinsfanec;336463]Herm Edwards? Really? And yes Belichick is a cheater in more ways than one!

[URL="http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/04023/264687.stm"]Collier: Cheating pays dividends for Patriots and Coach What's-his-name[/URL]
[URL="http://sports-law.blogspot.com/2006/11/bill-belichick-trying-to-delay.html"]Sports Law Blog[/URL][/quote]

Wanted to put Herm in here for a little change of pace from the standard set of responses. This could very well be THE defining year for Herm. He's not inheriting Parcell's team nor an offensive juggernaut that the Chiefs were with Trent Green and Saunders. This this season it's all on him to win games.

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cant have two losing seasons out of three and be one of the top 5 coaches in the NFL

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Who's your top 5 Chief?

Re: Top 5 coaches now
 

Eric Mangini and SEan Payton have "done it" for all of one season at the moment. Both of them may turn out to be Hall of Fame coaches sometime 20 years in the future; but as of now, they are as likely to be "one-hit wonders" as they are to be in the Top 5 coaches of their time.

Bill Belichick has to be on the list somewhere. If anyone proposes a list without him then every coach on that person's list would be suspect.

Tony Dungy has to be on the list of the Top 5 at this time. He's been highly successful in two places.

Andy Reid has to be on the list of the Top 5 at this time. He took over a team in 1999 that had the worst record in the NFL and has produced 4 years of NFC Championship games and 1 Super Bowl. Not bad.

I happen to think Jeff Fisher has gotten more done with the talent at his command and the circumstances of his stewardship than just about anyone else. Remember, Fisher's Oilers played to "home crowds" that did not support the team once it was a given that the team was headed elsewhere.

I can be talked into several folks for the 5th slot on this list. HOWEVER, Joe Gibbs is NOT one of them. Since his return - and this is about the Top 5 coaches NOW - Joe Gibbs has a losing record and a series of teams that bear no resemblence to the dedicated professionals that he had in the past.

I"d be tempted to put Marty Schottenheimer on this list - - except, he's not in the NFL at the moment due to some STRANGE thinking in San Diego.

I'd put MIke Shanahan here except that he has never won anything important in the playoffs since some guy named Elway retired - - and that was quite a while ago.

By default, I guess Mike Holmgren belongs as the fifth guy on the list...

Re: Top 5 coaches now
 

[QUOTE=sportscurmudgeon;336473]Eric Mangini and SEan Payton have "done it" for all of one season at the moment. Both of them may turn out to be Hall of Fame coaches sometime 20 years in the future; but as of now, they are as likely to be "one-hit wonders" as they are to be in the Top 5 coaches of their time.

Bill Belichick has to be on the list somewhere. If anyone proposes a list without him then every coach on that person's list would be suspect.

Tony Dungy has to be on the list of the Top 5 at this time. He's been highly successful in two places.

Andy Reid has to be on the list of the Top 5 at this time. He took over a team in 1999 that had the worst record in the NFL and has produced 4 years of NFC Championship games and 1 Super Bowl. Not bad.

I happen to think Jeff Fisher has gotten more done with the talent at his command and the circumstances of his stewardship than just about anyone else. Remember, Fisher's Oilers played to "home crowds" that did not support the team once it was a given that the team was headed elsewhere.

I can be talked into several folks for the 5th slot on this list. HOWEVER, Joe Gibbs is NOT one of them. Since his return - and this is about the Top 5 coaches NOW - Joe Gibbs has a losing record and a series of teams that bear no resemblence to the dedicated professionals that he had in the past.

I"d be tempted to put Marty Schottenheimer on this list - - except, he's not in the NFL at the moment due to some STRANGE thinking in San Diego.

I'd put MIke Shanahan here except that he has never won anything important in the playoffs since some guy named Elway retired - - and that was quite a while ago.

By default, I guess Mike Holmgren belongs as the fifth guy on the list...[/QUOTE]

See on the one hand, you say that Mangini and Payton shouldn't be on the list because they haven't done enough. But then you say Gibbs shouldn't be on the list because he's not one of the best now. But then, with that logic, shouldn't Mangini and Payton be on the list. While they may be "one-hit wonders" at the moment. Their moment is now, seeing as to how it was just last season they had their success (although Gibbs did beat Payton :) ).

On one hand you cite guys like Fisher, and Reid and their success from-with the exception of the Eagles' SB appearance in 2005-even before Gibbs came back. On the other hand, you seem to ignore what Gibbs did before he came back.

I guess what I'm getting at is, why do we mean by now? Do we mean the best coaches of this past year? Or the best coaches over the course of their careers who happen to currently be coaching.

Re: Top 5 coaches now
 

best coaches in the last 5 yrs still coaching i would think

Re: Top 5 coaches now
 

I would put Joe Gibbs in this list, but there are a lot of coaches who have done better than him with their teams. If having a 21-27 record is a sign of success in this league, it means the quality of the league has declined so much that

1. Bill Belichick - 3 Obvious reasons
2. Lovie Smith - The Bears used to suck before he got there, now they are the powerhouse of the NFC.
3. Tony Dungy - Very successfull throughout his tenure, as well as 1 obvious reason lolo.
4. Brian Billick - The Ravens are pretty consistent when it comes to having a winning record under his tenure.
5. Andy Reid - The Eagles have pretty much owned the NFC East except for one bad season a couple years ago.

Re: Top 5 coaches now
 

[quote=sportscurmudgeon;336473]Eric Mangini and SEan Payton have "done it" for all of one season at the moment. Both of them may turn out to be Hall of Fame coaches sometime 20 years in the future; but as of now, they are as likely to be "one-hit wonders" as they are to be in the Top 5 coaches of their time.

Bill Belichick has to be on the list somewhere. If anyone proposes a list without him then every coach on that person's list would be suspect.

Tony Dungy has to be on the list of the Top 5 at this time. He's been highly successful in two places.

Andy Reid has to be on the list of the Top 5 at this time. He took over a team in 1999 that had the worst record in the NFL and has produced 4 years of NFC Championship games and 1 Super Bowl. Not bad.

I happen to think Jeff Fisher has gotten more done with the talent at his command and the circumstances of his stewardship than just about anyone else. Remember, Fisher's Oilers played to "home crowds" that did not support the team once it was a given that the team was headed elsewhere.

I can be talked into several folks for the 5th slot on this list. HOWEVER, Joe Gibbs is NOT one of them. Since his return - and this is about the Top 5 coaches NOW - Joe Gibbs has a losing record and a series of teams that bear no resemblence to the dedicated professionals that he had in the past.

I"d be tempted to put Marty Schottenheimer on this list - - except, he's not in the NFL at the moment due to some STRANGE thinking in San Diego.

I'd put MIke Shanahan here except that he has never won anything important in the playoffs since some guy named Elway retired - - and that was quite a while ago.

By default, I guess Mike Holmgren belongs as the fifth guy on the list...[/quote]

You mean to tell me that '05 playoff run beared no resemblance to the Gibbs glory years? That was like a blast from the past for me. Everyone seems to forget that season, but everyone seems to remember the '04 and last season in total detail, heck the team nearly made it to the NFC Championship game! That '05 playoff run was the most fun I've had watching the Skins since '91, it proved that Gibbs still has it.

Re: Top 5 coaches now
 

Currently, Gibbs is not even a top 10 coach in this league.

Re: Top 5 coaches now
 

For a second I thought this was going to be a "Who's now" of NFL coaches. :doh:

Re: Top 5 coaches now
 

[quote=BeastsoftheNFCeast;336410]I was looking through the top5 coaches forum and wanted to post, but then realized im just 18 and cant post because of lack of knowlege about the past. So this forum is for the top 5 present coaches (including guys who retired this past season)

1. Bill Bellicheck (for 3 obvious reasons)
2. Andy Reid (his team has been dominating this league since I can remember)
3. Sean Payton/Eric Mangini (I know they only have one year under their belts, but they turned the second and 3rd worst teams into playoff teams)
4. Tony Dungy (Manning isnt the only reason why their team has been so dominant)
5. Mike Shanahan (the Broncos have been a force in the NFL since he has been with them)
5.5 Joe Gibbs (Im a redskins fan and therefore obligated to put him on this list, all time accomplishments he would be higher though, but he hasnt proven himself in this 2nd stint)[/quote]Your list is pretty good.

I think I'm on record saying Reid is better, but as long as Reid and Belichick go 1-2, I think a list can be accrate. Shanahan is an enigma. On one hand he has developed a very successful and innovative offensive system, but on the other, he has made so many bonehead coaching decisions over the years. He once ran a fake field goal on 4th down with 20 seconds left in the first half, was successful, and then had to kick the FG on the next play. Jason Elam got hurt on the tackle.

I wouldn't put anybody with one year of experience on there. Remember John Fox? Now hes one of the worst coaches in the league.

1. Reid
2. Belichick
3. Fisher
4. Mike Nolan
5. Lovie Smith
5a. Joe Gibbs
5b. Tony Dungy

Re: Top 5 coaches now
 

With what Belichick and the Pats have done in this decade it boggles my mind how someone can put someone like Reid above him, but hey to each his own I guess.

Re: Top 5 coaches now
 

1. Dungy
2. Bellicheck
3. Reid
4. Fisher
5. Shannahan

It hurt me to not put Gibbs on there but there are 3 Hall of Fame coaches on that list (Dungy, Bellicheck & Shannahan) and he hasn't proven he still has it with his second stint.

Re: Top 5 coaches now
 

[QUOTE=GTripp0012;336583]Your list is pretty good.

I think I'm on record saying Reid is better, but as long as Reid and Belichick go 1-2, I think a list can be accrate. Shanahan is an enigma. On one hand he has developed a very successful and innovative offensive system, but on the other, he has made so many bonehead coaching decisions over the years. He once ran a fake field goal on 4th down with 20 seconds left in the first half, was successful, and then had to kick the FG on the next play. Jason Elam got hurt on the tackle.

I wouldn't put anybody with one year of experience on there. Remember John Fox? Now hes one of the worst coaches in the league.

1. Reid
2. Belichick
3. Fisher
4. Mike Nolan
5. Lovie Smith
5a. Joe Gibbs
5b. Tony Dungy[/QUOTE]

To each his own, but Reid and [B][I][U]Mike Nolan [/U][/I][/B] above Gibbs and Dungy?? Reid I can maybe see because of their NFC East dominance, but what has Nolan done?

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I wonder how people would evaluate Belichick had his career been flipped. Meaning had he won all those Super Bowls with the Brown during his first stint, and now during his second with the Patriots be struggling.

Re: Top 5 coaches now
 

[quote=Paintrain;336589]To each his own, but Reid and [B][I][U]Mike Nolan [/U][/I][/B] above Gibbs and Dungy?? Reid I can maybe see because of their NFC East dominance, but what has Nolan done?[/quote]Mike Nolan has been a pretty damn good coach for two seasons now. He's outcoached Shanahan in Week 17 last year when Shanahan needed it for the playoffs.

Dungy is a good coach, but its easy to win Championships when Peyton Manning is behind center. Maybe it's a good thing that he's along for the ride, but Dungy has just...never been a very special football coach. What he does deserve credit for is persevering through all the critical evaluations of him, because it's character like that which seperates a strong coach from a weak coach.

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[quote=SmootSmack;336600]I wonder how people would evaluate Belichick had his career been flipped. Meaning had he won all those Super Bowls with the Brown during his first stint, and now during his second with the Patriots be struggling.[/quote]Probably slide him down a few spots. The reason he's up so high is that he oversees a consistent winner in the era of parity. If his role and Gibbs role were flipped, I'd likely also flip them on my list.

Re: Top 5 coaches now
 

1-bellecheck
1-gibbs(has'nt been as good since his return,but when you win 3 superbowls with 3 qbs and you are in the hof,enough said.)
2-herman edwards
3-tony dungy
4-mike shannahan
5-andy reid
5-holmgren

Re: Top 5 coaches now
 

In no particular order:
Lovie Smith, Andy Reid, Jack Del Rio, Jeff Fisher, John Fox

I'd throw Tom Coughlin on there, but he hasn't done too terribly much since coming to the Giants. Gibbs is struggling. Shanahan is still looking for the 2nd coming of Elway. Belichek is fine, I personally don't care for him. Dungy is a good coach, but not top 5.

Re: Top 5 coaches now
 

1) Belichek - dont really care for him or the patriots - but the man gets his teams to win games - great game planner

2) Reid - during his tenure has the Eagles at the top - even last year losing McNabb. vertually does it with no top WR and no true running game

3) Billick - year end year out has the Ravens top's in the league - what is even more impressive - he was an offensive coach and now winning basically with all defense.

4) Dungy - seems to win every year (having manning helps!) even going back to the TB days - very consistant, finally won the big one!

5) Holmgren - won in GB and has been winning consistanty in Seattle. Good talent scout also - he insisted on having Hasselbach when nobody in the front office wanted him, turned him into a probowler.


honorable mention : Lovie Smith, Shanahan, Fisher.
I can't put Gibbs in there for "right now" he has stuggled since coming back - under 500 record for his combined 3 years since coming back. if it was anyone other than Gibbs, we would probably be looking for a new coach.

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[QUOTE=BDBohnzie;336662]In no particular order:
Lovie Smith, Andy Reid, Jack Del Rio, Jeff Fisher, John Fox

I'd throw Tom Coughlin on there, but he hasn't done too terribly much since coming to the Giants. Gibbs is struggling. Shanahan is still looking for the 2nd coming of Elway. Belichek is fine, I personally don't care for him. Dungy is a good coach, but not top 5.[/QUOTE]

Jack Del Rio and Tom Coughlin...I cant agree with you there. The others are questionable.

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I can't believe anyone has Joe Gibbs in their top 5 coaches currently. Sorry folks, he hasn't done hardly anything since his return.

These are in no particular order, and the spelling is butchered:
Shannahan (sp?), Holmgren, Peyton, Fox, Fisher, Del Rio, Dungy, Lewis, Billick, Smith, Reid, Bellichek.

Some of them I consider equal with Gibbs: Gruden, Edwards, Nolan, Leinihan, Marinelli, Mangini, Kubiak. Some of these, mainly these guys I haven't seen enough of them to put them ahead, but are on a fast track.

Also remember, lots of coaches got N/A's in this: Atl, Az, San Diego, Oakland, Pittsburgh, Green Bay, Dallas, and Miami all have brand new head coaches.

I'm sorry, but Gibbs hasn't done a whole lot with a relatively talented Redskins team since his return. He's done pretty well at acquiring talent, but hasn't done so great on the coaching side of things, in my opinion. No one can deny Joe Gibbs greatness during his first tenure, but I think we need to look at this latest stint as a separate coach. If this guys name were anything but Joe Gibbs we would be asking for a new coach every single year.

To Smooter, Coughlin is a hard sell no doubt, but Jack Del Rio? He was appointed head coach of Jacksonville in 2004 if memory serves me correctly. Lets look at his teams since Gibbs has been in DC (04)
2004: 9-7
2005: 12-4, wild card playoff spot
2006: 8-8
His worst record is 8-8, not bad

Re: Top 5 coaches now
 

Coughlin is lucky to have a job right now.

Re: Top 5 coaches now
 

[QUOTE=Daseal;336858]I can't believe anyone has Joe Gibbs in their top 5 coaches currently. Sorry folks, he hasn't done hardly anything since his return.

These are in no particular order, and the spelling is butchered:
Shannahan (sp?), Holmgren, Peyton, Fox, Fisher, Del Rio, Dungy, Lewis, Billick, Smith, Reid, Bellichek.

Some of them I consider equal with Gibbs: Gruden, Edwards, Nolan, Leinihan, Marinelli, Mangini, Kubiak. Some of these, mainly these guys I haven't seen enough of them to put them ahead, but are on a fast track.

Also remember, lots of coaches got N/A's in this: Atl, Az, San Diego, Oakland, Pittsburgh, Green Bay, Dallas, and Miami all have brand new head coaches.

I'm sorry, but Gibbs hasn't done a whole lot with a relatively talented Redskins team since his return. He's done pretty well at acquiring talent, but hasn't done so great on the coaching side of things, in my opinion. No one can deny Joe Gibbs greatness during his first tenure, but I think we need to look at this latest stint as a separate coach. If this guys name were anything but Joe Gibbs we would be asking for a new coach every single year.

To Smooter, Coughlin is a hard sell no doubt, but Jack Del Rio? He was appointed head coach of Jacksonville in 2004 if memory serves me correctly. Lets look at his teams since Gibbs has been in DC (04)
2004: 9-7
2005: 12-4, wild card playoff spot
2006: 8-8
His worst record is 8-8, not bad[/QUOTE]

So does earning a wild card appearance make you a top five coach? Thats what the thread is about and thats what Im arguing.

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I can't believe people are actually singing the praises of guys like Kubiak, Payton, Nolan, Gruden, Marinelli but then bashing Gibbs

That's ridiculous. Let's see (putting aside Gibbs' 3 rings, 100+ victories, etc.). Let's just look at some of their highlights from the last two seasons:

Gibbs: Playoff win following 2005 season
Kubiak: One season, losing record, no playoffs
Payton: One season, 10-6, NFC Championship game....also lost a game to Gibbs
Nolan: 2 seasons, 2 losing records, lost to Gibbs
Gruden: Same number of wins and losses the past two seasons as Gibbs...lost to Gibbs in playoffs
Marinelli:One season, 3-13

Re: Top 5 coaches now
 

[quote=SmootSmack;336922]I can't believe people are actually saying guys like Kubiak, Payton, Nolan, Gruden, Marinelli are EQUAL TO GIBBS????

That's ridiculous. Let's see (putting aside Gibbs' 3 rings, 100+ victories, etc.). Let's just look at some of their highlights from the last two seasons:

Gibbs: Playoff win following 2005 season
Kubiak: One season, losing record, no playoffs
Payton: One season, 10-6, NFC Championship game....also lost a game to Gibbs
Nolan: 2 seasons, 2 losing records, lost to Gibbs
Gruden: Same number of wins and losses the past two seasons as Gibbs...lost to Gibbs in playoffs
Marinelli:One season, 3-13[/quote]

Seriously, that's a pretty shitty list.

At least Chucky has won a Super Bowl, but the rest haven't proven much at all. Marinelli? :doh:

I'm going to bed, I've had enough jackassery for one day.