Snyder Showing Improvement b/c of Gibbs?
 

From MMQB by Peter King:

[COLOR="DarkRed"]Meanwhile, I talked to Strahan on Saturday night and got no indication which way he was leaning. Human nature would say he can't make $4 million in four months anywhere but on the football field this fall, but I'm not sure this is a very normal situation. My guess is he'll play, but my personal preference would be to see him traded to a team that would pay him. Three years ago, this would have been a job for Dan Snyder, but [B]working with Joe Gibbs has transformed Snyder into some sort of Fred MacMurray type from My Three Sons. You know, Mr. Responsible.[/B] This doesn't seem like a Redskins move now.[/COLOR]


This got me thinking that maybe, if we don't go on to win a superbowl in Gibbs 2.0, that at least we could point to the maturation of Snyder as a kind of success under Gibbs. Winning a superbowl would be great but having Snyder actually adjust his spend first, ask questions later mentality might be more important to the health of the franchise, long term.

Re: Snyder Showing Improvement b/c of Gibbs?
 

I think in part it's due to Gibbs' influence but I think we also have to give some credit to Snyder for learning the error of his ways.

Re: Snyder Showing Improvement b/c of Gibbs?
 

good read. and i kind of think its alittle bit of both. Snyder didn't make millions by repeating mistakes. and Gibbs does know how to be successful

Re: Snyder Showing Improvement b/c of Gibbs?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;339656]I think in part it's due to Gibbs' influence but I think we also have to give some credit to Snyder for learning the error of his ways.[/QUOTE]

No doubt. I just think it took someone that Snyder had the utmost respect for (Gibbs) to get him to adjust his methods. Couple that with JG's demeanor and you have someone who is going to set a perfect example of how to lead a team, not just own it.

Re: Snyder Showing Improvement b/c of Gibbs?
 

Yes, now if this will somehow translate into wins. I could honestly would rather see Dan Snyder throw money around and we suck then watch him be fiscal with all the money and we still lose. It's not always about not throwing around money, but putting the money in the right place something we seem to always fail to do.

Re: Snyder Showing Improvement b/c of Gibbs?
 

I think what's missing from this brief analysis is that Gibbs himself has learned that jumping on vet free agents isn't what it used to be. Gibbs always liked free agents & trades if he got the guys that he could fit into his system. But back then he had a stable roster & a couple additions here & there weren't a big deal and w/the exception of Byner, Riggs & W. Marshall there were usually no big names or contracts.

I think Gibbs has learned from the acquisitions of Loyd & AA that the free agency game is often as much a gamble as the draft, but the latter is cheaper, a big part of the equation in the salary cap. So let's not say that it's only Snyder that's learned ,assuming that he has. King must know something about the Skins to make these statements, considering that only last year we were signing AA, Loyd & AC to big deals. This year we couldn't due to cap limits.

Re: Snyder Showing Improvement b/c of Gibbs?
 

[quote=freddyg12;339680]I think what's missing from this brief analysis is that Gibbs himself has learned that jumping on vet free agents isn't what it used to be. Gibbs always liked free agents & trades if he got the guys that he could fit into his system. But back then he had a stable roster & a couple additions here & there weren't a big deal and w/the exception of Byner, Riggs & W. Marshall there were usually no big names or contracts.

I think Gibbs has learned from the acquisitions of Loyd & AA that the free agency game is often as much a gamble as the draft, but the latter is cheaper, a big part of the equation in the salary cap. So let's not say that it's only Snyder that's learned ,assuming that he has. King must know something about the Skins to make these statements, considering that only last year we were signing AA, Loyd & AC to big deals. This year we couldn't due to cap limits.[/quote]Your correct but you also have to take into account that in 80's Gibbs did not have the cap. If he could convence Cook that he needed a player then it was a done deal. If the player failed they could dump them and it only hit Cook in the pocket. Today if you make that mistake it cost you much more with the cap in place.

Re: Snyder Showing Improvement b/c of Gibbs?
 

[quote=firstdown;339687]Your correct but you also have to take into account that in 80's Gibbs did not have the cap. If he could convence Cook that he needed a player then it was a done deal. If the player failed they could dump them and it only hit Cook in the pocket. Today if you make that mistake it cost you much more with the cap in place.[/quote]
You still had to build mostly through the draft prior to the salary cap because there was no unrestricted free agency other than the whacky "Plan B" free agency system. Signing a top-shelf free agent like Wilbur Marshall cost us two first round picks back then.

Re: Snyder Showing Improvement b/c of Gibbs?
 

[quote=firstdown;339687]Your correct but you also have to take into account that in 80's Gibbs did not have the cap. If he could convence Cook that he needed a player then it was a done deal. If the player failed they could dump them and it only hit Cook in the pocket. Today if you make that mistake it cost you much more with the cap in place.[/quote]

Which I alluded to in saying that free agents & draft picks both have risk involved but that overall the draft is much cheaper.
Gibbs seemed to say as much in this past draft when he said he'd like to have a few picks in the 2nd round cause there were lots of good guys there. Gibbs & Beathard rarely held on to their 1st round picks back in the day. I think now Gibbs sees the pros & cons of the cap structure w/draft picks. As to whether Snyder will be on board w/the notion of building through the draft after Gibbs leave, remains to be seen.

ON a side note, look back at the famous Ricky Williams Ditka deal w/NO. We got a slew of picks but other than Champ (and Jansen?), that draft didn't turn the team around. In Snyder's first few years he kept all of his picks if memory serves me. Maybe after that, he felt the draft wasn't the way to build.

Re: Snyder Showing Improvement b/c of Gibbs?
 

I think, save a handful of moves, our personnel decisions have been solid since Gibbs' arrival, daft choices included.

But I think the non-moves are equally as important. Remember how everyone was chomping at the bit for us to sign DE Courtney Brown a couple of years ago? He's done and probably won't ever play again. People were upset about letting Ramsey go, letting LaVar go? Hell, even Smoot didn't do much in Minni and he's now a back-up right where he began his career.

So as much as people point out the Archulettas and Ducketts, I'll point to the Courtney Browns, Simeon Rices, Strahans, and Nate Clements that we had the discipline to stay away from.

I think in today's NFL, you're going to learn some tough lessons regarding personnel, and very few, if any teams have a flawless record. You better bet Green Bay's non-moves during the offseason are going to bite them in the ass at some point this year.

I applaud Gibbs, Snyder and yes, Cerrato for doing a pretty good job!

Re: Snyder Showing Improvement b/c of Gibbs?
 

[quote=freddyg12;339701]...ON a side note, look back at the famous Ricky Williams Ditka deal w/NO. We got a slew of picks but other than Champ (and Jansen?), that draft didn't turn the team around. In Snyder's first few years he kept all of his picks if memory serves me. Maybe after that, he felt the draft wasn't the way to build.[/quote]
The Skins were wheeling and dealing picks back then as well. Yes, we got the motherlode for Ricky Williams, while still geting the player we wanted to select at the top (Champ Bailey). However, we also dealt our own first (#11 overall), our 3rd, and our 2000 2nd round pick to acquire Brad Johnson after allowing Trent Green to depart via free agency. I've often wondered what might have happened had we re-signed Green, and kept our own picks on top of the boatload Ditka gave us.

One final trivia note - Minnesota selected Daunte Culpepper with the 11th pick in that draft.

Re: Snyder Showing Improvement b/c of Gibbs?
 

[quote=SouperMeister;339718]The Skins were wheeling and dealing picks back then as well. Yes, we got the motherlode for Ricky Williams, while still geting the player we wanted to select at the top (Champ Bailey). However, we also dealt our own first (#11 overall), our 3rd, and our 2000 2nd round pick to acquire Brad Johnson after allowing Trent Green to depart via free agency. I've often wondered what might have happened had we re-signed Green, and kept our own picks on top of the boatload Ditka gave us.

One final trivia note - Minnesota selected Daunte Culpepper with the 11th pick in that draft.[/quote]

yeah, several people here said the same about Green. I remember somebody put up a thread asking which ex skin was missed the most. I agree that Green could've been the franchise qb, but he left for a few reasons, he got to go home to Mizz. & play for St. Louis, and the ownership situation was in limbo here.

Re: Snyder Showing Improvement b/c of Gibbs?
 

Gibbs is sucessfull in everything he does! And Danny boy is learning.

Re: Snyder Showing Improvement b/c of Gibbs?
 

[quote=freddyg12;339727]yeah, several people here said the same about Green. I remember somebody put up a thread asking which ex skin was missed the most. I agree that Green could've been the franchise qb, but he left for a few reasons, he got to go home to Mizz. & play for St. Louis, and the ownership situation was in limbo here.[/quote]
If I'm correct the team at the time did not have an owner and no one could have even worked his deal until someone purchased the team.

Re: Snyder Showing Improvement b/c of Gibbs?
 

I think time itself has changed him. He realizes some of the mistakes he made in firing coaches and hiring high profile names in the past.

Anyways, f... peter king

Re: Snyder Showing Improvement b/c of Gibbs?
 

IMO Peter King has zero credibility and will always have zero credibility...thanks to him we get Irvin in the hall while Monk has to sit around a suck it...

Re: Snyder Showing Improvement b/c of Gibbs?
 

Good Danny will be a future Hall of famer GM if we can have a more better winning franchise team.

Re: Snyder Showing Improvement b/c of Gibbs?
 

when we start winning games. keeping our draft picks every year then i will believe.

Re: Snyder Showing Improvement b/c of Gibbs?
 

[quote=BleedBurgundy;339655]From MMQB by Peter King:

[COLOR=DarkRed]Meanwhile, I talked to Strahan on Saturday night and got no indication which way he was leaning. Human nature would say he can't make $4 million in four months anywhere but on the football field this fall, but I'm not sure this is a very normal situation. My guess is he'll play, but my personal preference would be to see him traded to a team that would pay him. Three years ago, this would have been a job for Dan Snyder, but [B]working with Joe Gibbs has transformed Snyder into some sort of Fred MacMurray type from My Three Sons. You know, Mr. Responsible.[/B] This doesn't seem like a Redskins move now.[/COLOR]


This got me thinking that maybe, if we don't go on to win a superbowl in Gibbs 2.0, that at least we could point to the maturation of Snyder as a kind of success under Gibbs. Winning a superbowl would be great but having Snyder actually adjust his spend first, ask questions later mentality might be more important to the health of the franchise, long term.[/quote]

I think you're grasping at straws in Gibbs behalf. Gibbs has been an embarrassing failure here so far. He has made horrible personnel decisions here and doesn't seem to know what to do now.

Re: Snyder Showing Improvement b/c of Gibbs?
 

Serenity Now!

Re: Snyder Showing Improvement b/c of Gibbs?
 

[QUOTE=Crazyhorse1;339913]I think you're grasping at straws in Gibbs behalf. Gibbs has been an embarrassing failure here so far. He has made horrible personnel decisions here and doesn't seem to know what to do now.[/QUOTE]

Grasping at straws? Maybe... but I can back it up by simply pointing to the years since Gibbs' return and the relative restraint we've seen El Snyder demonstrate. Gibbs has most certainly not been "an embarassing failure." Taking us back to the playoffs, drafting the QB of the future, setting us up with an all star group of assistant coaches from whom to possibly choose his successor... that's not an embarassing failure. If you expected a Superbowl every year because we have a hall of fame coach, well, that's on you. What he's accomplished is taking a team that was in complete disarray (thanks, spurrier...) and transforming it into a team that will be competitive for the foreseeable future. I don't consider myself too much of a homer or overly optimistic. Time will tell.

Re: Snyder Showing Improvement b/c of Gibbs?
 

Good thread and uncommonly good comments on both sides.

Just when you think Daniel Snyder has grown, comes that whole Lance Briggs episode. You know how close we came to Chicago having our #1 and #3 draft choice and Rocky McIntosh, while we would have had Briggs on a $40M contract with $15M guaranteed? That leaves a question mark in my mind, along with the thought that Drew Rosenhaus should never have unsupervised access to the owner.

The true test for Snyder will come when Gibbs leaves. Will he: keep Vinnie Cerrato? or, bring in a legit GM like Ozzie Newsome (Ravens) or Jim Polian (Colts) or Jerry Angelo (Bears) who knows talent and can go brass knuckles with agents? or, fall for the "big name" again and go for Cowher, Belichick, or Parcells.

As a fan, I'm pulling punches on the current Redskins because it's Joe Gibbs. So are you, and maybe Snyder, too. I wouldn't put up with this if it were Cowher.

My guess is he will go big name again.

Re: Snyder Showing Improvement b/c of Gibbs?
 

Is this a joke?? Learned lesson?? Flashback we made Adam Archelleta the hight paid safety ever. How's that for a lesson learned.

Re: Snyder Showing Improvement b/c of Gibbs?
 

little danny hasnt learn a thing

Re: Snyder Showing Improvement b/c of Gibbs?
 

Yeah, this whole thread is a waste of words. Dan Snyder hasn't and won't learn a thing. If he hasn't learned now after all these years something tells me it's not going to sink in any time soon. The Redskins are his real life fantasy team.

Re: Snyder Showing Improvement b/c of Gibbs?
 

it danny has learn anything we would have a GM. Not Vinny. All good teams have a Gm but us. Hmm wonder why the bears,colts,pats,steelers etc contend for superbowls and we contend to hopefully be .500

Re: Snyder Showing Improvement b/c of Gibbs?
 

[quote=skins009;340718]Is this a joke?? Learned lesson?? Flashback we made Adam Archelleta the hight paid safety ever. How's that for a lesson learned.[/quote]

How is that such a huge mistake? Nate Clements is the highest paid defensive player in the history of the game. Do you think he's worth it? What about Mario Williams?

My point is, in this market, at least the past few years, someone's bound to get overpaid. Did they overpay Archuletta, no doubt. But why not point to the Sean Taylors on our roster too? Here we have an all-pro safety and yet we're definitely getting a lot of bang for our buck.

I think to be fair, for every Archuletta, you have to point out the guys who have stuck around and they're not breaking the bank. I think Snyder will always be a wheeling, dealing type of owner to be honest; it's his style.

Re: Snyder Showing Improvement b/c of Gibbs?
 

[QUOTE=12thMan;340848]How is that such a huge mistake? Nate Clements is the highest paid defensive player in the history of the game. Do you think he's worth it? What about Mario Williams?

My point is, in this market, at least the past few years, someone's bound to get overpaid. Did they overpay Archuletta, no doubt. But why not point to the Sean Taylors on our roster too? Here we have an all-pro safety and yet we're definitely getting a lot of bang for our buck.

I think to be fair, for every Archuletta, you have to point out the guys who have stuck around and they're not breaking the bank. I think Snyder will always be a wheeling, dealing type of owner to be honest; it's his style.[/QUOTE]

Look the reality is that there are still people here who think it's 2000 and we're still signing Bruce Smith. And then there are still people who bitch and moan about we have no "General Manager" but probably couldn't even tell you what they mean by that. They'll say "Well the Pats, Eagles, Bears, Steelers, and Colts all have GMs" Well technically, only the Bears and Eagles have anyone with that title. The rest all have titles similar or identical to Cerrato's VP of Football Operations. Would people feel better if we just changed Cerrato (or even Gibbs') title to General Manager? Just so we can say we have one?

Re: Snyder Showing Improvement b/c of Gibbs?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;341035]Look the reality is that there are still people here who think it's 2000 and we're still signing Bruce Smith. And then there are still people who bitch and moan about we have no "General Manager" but probably couldn't even tell you what they mean by that. They'll say "Well the Pats, Eagles, Bears, Steelers, and Colts all have GMs" Well technically, only the Bears and Eagles have anyone with that title. The rest all have titles similar or identical to Cerrato's VP of Football Operations. Would people feel better if we just changed Cerrato (or even Gibbs') title to General Manager? Just so we can say we have one?[/quote]

Probably.

Everytime I start to post something about how real football is different from fantasy football and you can't run the team like that, etc, the Redskins sign another WR.

I guess we can take solace in the fact that the owner is slightly less nutty than most of the fans who seem to want to sign anybody they've heard of that also has contract problems.