Skins' WRs
 

Is it only me, or am I noticing a certain amount of desperation from the FO. First it was Bradford now Pinkston. A couple of questions come to mind...

1. Why the desperation now? We knew what we had Since December 06. Did the FO just now realize that we need upgrades there?

2. Do they truly believe that Bradford/Pinkston is an upgrade in any way shape or form?

3. Is there something not being made public that is wrong with one of the current WRs?

3. What is the message being sent to ARE, BL, JT, and ME?

4. IMHO, making these types of additions, this late, only disrupts the team chemistry. From a practice point of view, a) fewer reps for the incumbent 4 (named above), the QB's now have to gain some type of timing with the new WRs, and it seems that with Saunders "timing offense" that moves this late would be counter productive.

My 2 cents...

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It's not desperation. Both ARE and BL are hurt right now.

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need some warm bodies to practice. thats about the extent of it

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Agree that both are hurt now.

However, I don't think both hurt last week when we signed Bradford Why not give Trash/Espy/Berman/Hoag/McAddley/Toler more reps and let them play. I would assume they are all on the roster now because they have shot at making it.

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I give our front office credit for exhausting all potential options that are on the market, however we pursued Loyd & ARE (who I like a lot) when Denver (always a thorn in our offseason side) made a trade for Javon Walker, a bona fide big play wr.
oh well, we've got to move on w/what we've got. I wonder how bad Loyd's shin splints are & how it came about. I only remember runners getting shin splints from running on pavement too much.

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I don't think we're desperate at all. I don't think ARE and Loyd are great wideouts, but they're definately serviceable. Does anyone else think that ARE and Lloyd are decent, but that maybe they are just not as good as we Redskins fans hoped they'd be? Just because a player doesn't meet our sky-high expectations as fans, it doesn't necessarily follow that they are a bust or bad.

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[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;340066]I don't think we're desperate at all. I don't think ARE and Loyd are great wideouts, but they're definately serviceable. Does anyone else think that ARE and Lloyd are decent, but that maybe they are just not as good as we Redskins fans hoped they'd be? Just because a player doesn't meet our sky-high expectations as fans, it doesn't necessarily follow that they are a bust or bad.[/quote]

They're not as good as MOSS... he makes everyone look bad!

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ARE has shown he's a decent nfl player, he just can't get open - or much separation- all the time. I think we could get him the ball a lot more.

Loyd on the other hand, had 1 decent year in SF, but hasn't looked worthy of a starting job here, much less a 10mil bonus. I think he's on a short leash. If he screws up or doesn't produce, he'll get benched or even Keyshawned. I think Gibbs is well aware of his potential distraction capability.

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[quote=freddyg12;340065]I give our front office credit for exhausting all potential options that are on the market, however we pursued Loyd & ARE (who I like a lot) when Denver (always a thorn in our offseason side) made a trade for Javon Walker, a bona fide big play wr.
oh well, we've got to move on w/what we've got. I wonder how bad Loyd's shin splints are & how it came about. I only remember runners getting shin splints from running on pavement too much.[/quote]
I used to get shin splints when I played High School football, they're pretty painful, but I played through them with some help from advil. I don't understand how Lloyd has missed two weeks of practice, with a minor injury such as shin splints. They should be completely healed by now.

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[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;340066]I don't think we're desperate at all. I don't think ARE and Loyd are great wideouts, but they're definately serviceable. Does anyone else think that ARE and Lloyd are decent, but that maybe they are just not as good as we Redskins fans hoped they'd be? Just because a player doesn't meet our sky-high expectations as fans, it doesn't necessarily follow that they are a bust or bad.[/quote]

I think Brandon Lloyd's presence makes this team worse. I truly do. I think we would be better with him off the roster and someone else sliding onto the team (Espy) to round out the depth. I think Lloyd is a locker room problem waiting to happen.

I think ARE can be quite a weapon in the slot if you have two other WRs on the outside who can draw the defense's attention. But I don't like ARE playing out wide very much.

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[QUOTE=Schneed10;340083]I think Brandon Lloyd's presence makes this team worse. I truly do. I think we would be better with him off the roster and someone else sliding onto the team (Espy) to round out the depth. I think Lloyd is a locker room problem waiting to happen.

I think ARE can be quite a weapon in the slot if you have two other WRs on the outside who can draw the defense's attention. But I don't like ARE playing out wide very much.[/QUOTE]

I agree that Lloyd is likely a locker room problem and, as I've stated numerous times in other threads, I personally do not care for him. But, he's probably better on the field than he looked in 2006.

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[quote=RMSkins;340081]I used to get shin splints when I played High School football, they're pretty painful, but I played through them with some help from advil. I don't understand how Lloyd has missed two weeks of practice, with a minor injury such as shin splints. They should be completely healed by now.[/quote]

That's what I thought. I also thought you couldn't get shin splints unless you've been doing an awful lot of pounding. Given the time period of his injury (out most of 2 weeks), that would mean he was running an awful lot prior to camp starting. It's possible I guess, just doesn't sound like a legit injury.

I'll leave it to Bubba though, shin splints may be related to something else & they're advising him not to practice. JLC's blog today said that Loyd wanted to go saturday night but they wouldn't let him.

No matter what the extent of his injury, he came in as the #3 & Thrash has been having a great camp, so he might be #4 & falling.

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I think they are afraid that Lloyd can't play. I don't mean because of injuries. I think he is so fearful of physical contact that he literally will not do what they want him to do. I've never seen a pro player that averse to contact unless it was Skeets Nehemiah. He makes Micheal Westbrook look like Jack Tatum.

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[quote=70Chip;340100]I think they are afraid that Lloyd can't play. [B]I don't mean because of injuries. I think he is so fearful of physical contact that he literally will not do what they want him to do. I've never seen a pro player that averse to contact [/B]unless it was Skeets Nehemiah. He makes Micheal Westbrook look like Jack Tatum.[/quote]

If that's the case, explain why we picked up PINKSTON!?!?!?! :cheeky-sm

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The most important thing I'm comfortable with is big targets for JC to see like Eric Edwards and of course Cooley on the flat. Once Jason's timing is there, he will be able to hit Antwaan and Santana with ease. He seems to over throw the little targets which leaves them open for big hits.

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[QUOTE=Buster;340101]If that's the case, explain why we picked up PINKSTON!?!?!?! :cheeky-sm[/QUOTE]
I agree. Lloyd isn't 100%. Bradford hasn't impressed. Epsy and Thrash are just 4th and 5th receivers. They really want Epsy to make the team. But he has to have an almost perfect outing against a second and third string defense.

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[quote=Schneed10;340083]I think Brandon Lloyd's presence makes this team worse. I truly do. I think we would be better with him off the roster and someone else sliding onto the team (Espy) to round out the depth. I think Lloyd is a locker room problem waiting to happen.

I think ARE can be quite a weapon in the slot if you have two other WRs on the outside who can draw the defense's attention. But I don't like ARE playing out wide very much.[/quote]


Schneed - what is the cap hit if the Skins cut Llyod after this year?

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This is not an upgrade. It's just some people we want to see practice. Like Byron Westbrook, we know good and damn well he isnt gonna be on the final roster because we have SS, CR, and FS to name a few. It's just so we can have depth thats all.

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I know the season is just starting but I thought I'd throw it out here for this discussion - here is a link listing 2008 free agent WR's - obiviously Andre' Davis of the Texans is a stud but I don't think the Skins can afford him cap wise (Schneed maybe you can let us know - I think Davis will command a huge signing bonus but if you had him and Moss I think the Skins offense would truly be a wrecking force).

I also think a less expensive Bryant Johnson of the Cardinals would be a nice compliment to Moss being a big target and excellent route runner - plus he may come at an affordable price:

[B]Bryant Johnson, UFA, Arizona Cardinals
[/B]Johnson could fly under the radar this season, but those in the know consider him quite talented. He’s overshadowed by star receivers Larry Fitzgerald and Anquan Boldin, but Johnson runs great routes, has good hands, and at 6’3” his size makes him an appealing option. He’s caught at least 35 passes in each of his four seasons, including 49 receptions in 2004, and has a touchdown scored in each season, with four coming in ’06. Johnson will likely find a bigger role in another offense in ’08.

[url=http://www.footballsfuture.com/2008/nfl/freeagentsWR.html]2008 NFL Free Agent WRs[/url]

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nothing new here we all new that excluding Moss our recievers stink. At best they are number 3 WR. Lloyd is a problem was in SF and is here. ARE great punt returner ok WR. Thrash hard worker number 3 at best. Pinkston suck doo doo. Bradford past his prime. Was ok in Gb because of Farve.

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I've been, to paraphrase from hooskins for a minute, an adamant antwaan randle el (and andre carter for that matter) advocate since even before we signed him. I think he's full capable of being our #2 WR.

All that said, I technically still consider Chris Cooley our #2 receiver behind Moss

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[quote=SmootSmack;340262]I've been, to paraphrase from hooskins for a minute, an adamant antwaan randle el (and andre carter for that matter) advocate since even before we signed him. I think he's full capable of being our #2 WR.

All that said, I technically still consider Chris Cooley our #2 receiver behind Moss[/quote]
I absolutely agree with you Smoot. ARE is definitely capable of being our #2 WR, I was also a huge supporter of signing ARE in FA, and I was very happy that we got the deal done, hopefully he can prove us right because he has not been off to a good start so far.

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I honestly don't think we need a ton of production from a #2, just enough to keep defenses honest. As long as Moss can stay healthy he and Cooley will see the majority of the passes come their way anyway, after all they are our best two receivers. Add in Betts coming out of the backfield on 3rd downs, and I don't see our #2 catching more than 35-40 balls.

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[quote=Mattyk72;340325]I honestly don't think we need a ton of production from a #2, just enough to keep defenses honest. As long as Moss can stay healthy he and Cooley will see the majority of the passes come their way anyway, after all they are our best two receivers. Add in Betts coming out of the backfield on 3rd downs, and I don't see our #2 catching more than 35-40 balls.[/quote]

I agree. They need to be 35-40 medium to big plays though. And in certain games, they will need to catch like 8 balls based on the defense focusing on the others. The Giants like to roll coverage to Moss for instance. Wade Phillips probably will too. It's not a hard job, but it's crucial.

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[quote=70Chip;340386]I agree. They need to be 35-40 medium to big plays though. And in certain games, they will need to catch like 8 balls based on the defense focusing on the others. The Giants like to roll coverage to Moss for instance. Wade Phillips probably will too. It's not a hard job, but it's crucial.[/quote]

True, look at 2005...we almost made it to the NFC Championship with ONLY Moss producing as a WR and with Brunell throwing to him!

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[quote=Buster;340393]True, look at 2005...we almost made it to the NFC Championship with ONLY Moss producing as a WR and with Brunell throwing to him![/quote]


I think back to the Cowboys and they had Alvin Harper. He would catch maybe 3 or 4 passes a game but one of them would be a big one. I think that's the role they envisioned for Lloyd. If Harper could do it, you'd think someone on our team could do it. Maybe even James Thrash.

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[quote=lifetimeskin;340049]Is it only me, or am I noticing a certain amount of desperation from the FO. First it was Bradford now Pinkston. A couple of questions come to mind...
quote]

1. I don't see the move as desperation -- exactly. Bradford was already being looked at. If you are looking at options, you might give Pinkston a workout. Signing doesn't = staying.

2. They are delusional if they see either as an upgrade. However, I think they are delusional to believe Lloyd or ARE are legit #2 receivers in the first place.

Coach Gibbs positioned Pinkston as an upgrade over Kyle Brown, who was released. So, they are just using the slot to look someone over. I think they could have looked at someone else, like Rod Gardner. I'm serious. Gardner was good for 50+ catches, for 7-800 yards, and 4-6 TDS. Who knew how good that would look today? (Of course, I don't know what shape 50-50 is in these days)

3. See #2.

4. I bet there's an inside story on Pinkston being here now that will come out in time. However, the team is still being formed. I don't think we are at the chemistry phase yet. Chemistry is what you want the core players to have: Portis/Betts with the o-line; Campbell with the receivers, QB with the OC; MLB with the DC.

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Gardner was also good for a dropped pass in a crucial situation.

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The WR corps has to have a big or possession receiver. Micheal Westbrook as good as he was in 1999, and horrible in the post season. His size is what is desired from the coaching staff right now. Pinkston ain't it. Lloyd could probably be that guy but he just hasn't proven himself as a Redskin. Where's Art Monk when you need him?

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I truly believe that no receiver in the league is incapable of starting beside Moss and Cooley, but it would have to be a pretty good player to be worth taking ARE off the field for. We're already paying ARE a lot more than you should pay a punt returner, might as well make him earn it.

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After preseason game one....you gotta admin Randle El didn't look good.
He should be great by now with all of that Brandon Lloyd on the sideline stuff.
If he doesn't show major improvement in game 2...we've got a major problem.

Lloyd aint the answer, but we wont find out unless ARE totally screws up this week....BTW....why not have Lloyd start returning kicks or something...lets get our money out of em!

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[quote=Buster;340415]Gardner was also good for a dropped pass in a crucial situation.[/quote]

Very true, but the half he caught added up to 50-odd receptions, 7-800 yards and 4-6 TDs. It took Lloyd and ARE [I]combined[/I] to do that.

I'm not down on ARE. I like him and think he contributes to the team. I do not see him as a #2.

Like most of you, I'm holding fire on Lloyd and hope for improvement this year. He has a lot to prove.

Main point is that I don't see Pinkston as a solution to underperforming WRs. Surely the FO could have found and brought in someone else before now. If this were well thought out, Pinkston would have been here for the OTAs. It's not like he just became available.

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hopefully its a message to lloyd to produce or get his a-- out of here.

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Loyd for Gerrard Warren, straight up!

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[QUOTE=freddyg12;340645]Loyd for Gerrard Warren, straight up![/QUOTE]

That's what I say.

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[quote=Cowell;340730]That's what I say.[/quote]
Well thank god you're not the GM for the Redskins. Why in the world would you trade our #3 WR for a low effort DT that is going to be realesed anyway if another team doesn't trade for him. The only way I would entertain the thought of getting Warren was is he was released by the Broncos, I would never trade our #3 WR or a 5th round pick for him, and who do suggest takes Lloyd's spot? Thrash, Bradford, PINKSTON???????

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There you go, a low effort WR for a low effort DT. Either way Lloyd probably isn't going to put up numbers. I really hope I'm wrong though.

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[quote=Cowell;340816]There you go, a low effort WR for a low effort DT. Either way Lloyd probably isn't going to put up numbers. I really hope I'm wrong though.[/quote]
I agree with you Lloyd was very low effort last year, but the problem is we have nobody behind him. Hopefully he can turn it around this year.

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because we have a low effort wr who has a 10 million signing bonus and has been a problem everywhere he been

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pats done it last season with a 2nd string wideouts, smart play and solid running and defense wins it not with a superstar WR