Defensive line still a major issue
 

donovan had all day unless we were sending blitzing. i was pissed the entire game at that. every time there was a sack or any pressure at all i would see landry or rocky or washington in there. same thing with the dolphins game. i honestly think this may hurt us in the long run. i mean seriously was anyone else not screaming at the TV when Donovan would drop back and just casually look around for an open guy? good thing he sucks and our corners stepped up this week.

i know its too late to do anything about now, but we have to fix this in the offseason. and what the hell kind of tackle was that when evans hit westbrook before he took off for a 30 yard gain, disgusting.

Re: Defensive line still a major issue
 

Dude, we won the game.

We all know they could use a big-time pass rusher and hopefully they address next year. I don't see the point in griping about this right now.

Re: Defensive line still a major issue
 

Both Carter and Marcus Washington had sacks from the DE positions. And Rocky had a sack. That;s good to me.

Re: Defensive line still a major issue
 

Well I certainly am not opposed to us going after a stud pass rusher in the offseason, if we can get our hands on one. But to call the defensive line's play a major issue is flat out incorrect.

I remember seeing Carter coming around the edge, forcing Donovan to evade him as Griffin pushed his way into the backfield, wrapping him up and taking him down.

I saw several other instances in which Carter was coming around the edge and Donovan threw the ball just before Carter made contact. McNabb's throws were way off in most of those cases. Some blame it on the knee, and maybe that's true, but you could tell he could not set his feet and get comfortable in the pocket.

Sacks aren't the only measure of defensive line play. Pressure itself makes a big impact on the game.

Now, when McNabb started to get rolling at the end of the second half, he was getting the ball out quickly because GW had the corners back off and leave a cushion to prevent any huge plays. The line didn't have time to get to McNabb before the ball came out.

I thought they did well the other night.

Re: Defensive line still a major issue
 

We definitely need more pressure from the front four. We won't have a top 5 defense till those guys can cause some problems.
I think our line play is directly related to lack of turnovers.

Re: Defensive line still a major issue
 

When we were using a 4 man rush for most of the game and sitting back in shell coverage we're not going to generate a ton of pressure. Also you don't bring tons of pressure against mobile QBs because if they break contain they're going to run for a long time.. Since Ellie Mae doesn't like pressure in his face, I'd expect to see Grilliams release the hounds more this week.

We generated sufficient pressure to keep them out of the end zone and the win column, I'm happy enough with that.

Re: Defensive line still a major issue
 

[quote=12thMan;354304]Both Carter and Marcus Washington had sacks from the DE positions. And Rocky had a sack. That;s good to me.[/quote]


[url=http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=Auyfer6y89jzESEgebCnSJdDubYF?slug=mcintoshlandryboostredsk&prov=tsn&type=lgns]McIntosh, Landry boost Redskins' defense - NFL - Yahoo! Sports[/url]

We have more then a 1/4 of the amount of sacks we had all last season. If our secondary can keep playing like they did in phily hopefully our line will come togather. Its still real early in the season.

Re: Defensive line still a major issue
 

[quote=mlmpetert;354315][URL="http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=Auyfer6y89jzESEgebCnSJdDubYF?slug=mcintoshlandryboostredsk&prov=tsn&type=lgns"]McIntosh, Landry boost Redskins' defense - NFL - Yahoo! Sports[/URL]

We have more then a 1/4 of the amount of sacks we had all last season. If our secondary can keep playing like they did in phily hopefully our line will come togather. Its still real early in the season.[/quote]


again.... im not talking about our linebackers and safeties. im talking about the front four on a four man rush getting bitched everytime.

and yes, hopefully our secondary plays very well, because honestly if we go into new england with no pressure its over, brady will eat us apart. i would like to see these guys step it up.

Re: Defensive line still a major issue
 

I'm sorry but Andre Carter needs to learn a few moves. I'm not complaining about out DLine except for him and he has still played pretty good. I just think that speed rush to the outside ten yards past the quarterback is useless. Try a drop step or cutback.

Re: Defensive line still a major issue
 

The defensive line played great against the Eagles. The goal with McNabb is to try to keep him in the pocket. This means that pass-rushers cannot go all out to try to get to him because they have to be concerned with maintaining their contain. Andre Carter, for instance, can't really try to speed around the Tackle because that would leave a big lane for McNabb to run through. He has to try and be consious of McNabb the runner. Having said that, I think we did sck him twice if I'm not mistaken. Maybe more.

The bottom line is you want McNabb to be a pocket passer. That's your best chance to win.

Re: Defensive line still a major issue
 

Well all I have to say is, we are winning, the Defense is ranked #16th after week 2, ranked #9th against the run, so our Defensive line is doing a good job in that aspect. Anyone that knows a Greg Williams Defense knows he uses Defensive Line to stop the run and adds QB pressure with LB's and Defensive Backs. SO far I am happy with the Defensive play, even though I feel we should be playing better against the pass. But I feel we will get better in that area as the season progresses.

Hail to the Redskins!!!!!

Re: Defensive line still a major issue
 

[QUOTE=chrisl4064;354299]donovan had all day unless we were sending blitzing. i was pissed the entire game at that. every time there was a sack or any pressure at all i would see landry or rocky or washington in there. same thing with the dolphins game. i honestly think this may hurt us in the long run. i mean seriously was anyone else not screaming at the TV when Donovan would drop back and just casually look around for an open guy? good thing he sucks and our corners stepped up this week.

i know its too late to do anything about now, but we have to fix this in the offseason. and what the hell kind of tackle was that when evans hit westbrook before he took off for a 30 yard gain, disgusting.[/QUOTE]

I am right there with you. The only sacks we got were because our coverage in the secondary was outstanding. No sacks were generated from a pure rush...that is a huge concern and needs to be addressed next year.

Re: Defensive line still a major issue
 

Major issue??

I guess we already forget about last year. That defensive line was a major issue.

Re: Defensive line still a major issue
 

DL still sucks. safeties - maybe the best depth in the league (4 starters), CB - 4 starters and what looks like a quality reserve. LBs - 4 starters and a young guy (blades). DL - 1 and three .5 starters with a decent 3rd DT... some minor age issues there too.

I mean, Griffin is good when healthy, but the rest of the DL is average at best, and that might be being nice. I like evans and the two young guys as depth, but we're missing an A1 DE right now.

I mean, we'll be around the 14th best D this year at this rate, and that's pretty good, but an aaron kampman/jason taylor or some such could really help (monster tackler/sack guy).

Re: Defensive line still a major issue
 

I too would like to see more pressure from the front 4, but they are much better this year at stopping the run. Getting pressure from the front 4 is important against all teams, but against the Giants and Lions coming up, it will be especially so.

Re: Defensive line still a major issue
 

[QUOTE=chrisl4064;354316]again.... im not talking about our linebackers and safeties. im talking about the front four on a four man rush getting bitched everytime.

and yes, hopefully our secondary plays very well, because [b]honestly if we go into new england with no pressure its over, brady will eat us apart.[/b] i would like to see these guys step it up.[/QUOTE]

Honestly, Brady is going to pretty much pick anyone apart.. Relax and enjoy 2-0

Re: Defensive line still a major issue
 

I honestly don't think that our front 4 can get any pressure on there own. I think we need to bring a linebacker and when we can a safety to really get at the QB.

Re: Defensive line still a major issue
 

[QUOTE=chrisl4064;354299]donovan had all day unless we were sending blitzing. i was pissed the entire game at that. every time there was a sack or any pressure at all i would see landry or rocky or washington in there. same thing with the dolphins game. i honestly think this may hurt us in the long run. i mean seriously was anyone else not screaming at the TV when Donovan would drop back and just casually look around for an open guy? good thing he sucks and our corners stepped up this week.

i know its too late to do anything about now, but we have to fix this in the offseason. and what the hell kind of tackle was that when evans hit westbrook before he took off for a 30 yard gain, disgusting.[/QUOTE]

Whoa, disgusting? Probably time for you to get off the warpath with that kind of negative reaction to, what by any measure, was a great Redskin WIN! And you were watching a different game when you say that the front four did not change how McNabb was playing the game. Did you even see the throws he missed? Do you think he misses those throws if there's no pressure?

You might want to find something better to scream at your TV about...

And to pick a single missed play by a second string defensive end on one of the shiftiest and best runners in the game is ludicrous. Just sit back, think about the game and tell us that this was not an outstanding defensive effort by a TEAM. Isn't 12 points evidence enough?

We would all like to bring in the next DL stud when he becomes available. But remember that there's a 53 man roster, and cap money (and affordable talent) is in limited supply. So far, the choice the Redskins made to stand pat with the DL is just fine with me. Can we improve? Sure! But tell me what team can't...

Time to adjust your attitude and let's hear some positive vibes from you if you want to call yourself a true Redskins fan.

Re: Defensive line still a major issue
 

I think our D line did OK on MNF, didn't nail McNabb as much as they should have, but they did have somewhat of a rush going, just didn't get a hold of him. Someone in the game chat was right though, at times the linemen looked lethargic in their pursuit of Donovan. We should have had 6 sacks just due to the coverage. I like how Carter did get a sack, but the other guys need to get in on the action.

Re: Defensive line still a major issue
 

[quote=chrisl4064;354299]donovan had all day unless we were sending blitzing. i was pissed the entire game at that. every time there was a sack or any pressure at all i would see landry or rocky or washington in there. same thing with the dolphins game. i honestly think this may hurt us in the long run. i mean seriously was anyone else not screaming at the TV when Donovan would drop back and just casually look around for an open guy? good thing he sucks and our corners stepped up this week.

i know its too late to do anything about now, but we have to fix this in the offseason. and what the hell kind of tackle was that when evans hit westbrook before he took off for a 30 yard gain, disgusting.[/quote]

Are you surprised or something? You knew going in we needed DE help. At least we are not getting gashed on the run like last year. It looks like Montgomery, Goldston and Griff are holding down the middle pretty well. You can't fix everything in one year. We are 2-0. Be happy instead of finding the negative.

Re: Defensive line still a major issue
 

[quote=SCRedskinsFan;354383]Whoa, disgusting? Probably time for you to get off the warpath with that kind of negative reaction to, what by any measure, was a great Redskin WIN! And you were watching a different game when you say that the front four did not change how McNabb was playing the game. Did you even see the throws he missed? Do you think he misses those throws if there's no pressure?

You might want to find something better to scream at your TV about...

And to pick a single missed play by a second string defensive end on one of the shiftiest and best runners in the game is ludicrous. Just sit back, think about the game and tell us that this was not an outstanding defensive effort by a TEAM. Isn't 12 points evidence enough?

We would all like to bring in the next DL stud when he becomes available. But remember that there's a 53 man roster, and cap money (and affordable talent) is in limited supply. So far, the choice the Redskins made to stand pat with the DL is just fine with me. Can we improve? Sure! But tell me what team can't...

Time to adjust your attitude and let's hear some positive vibes from you if you want to call yourself a true Redskins fan.[/quote]

Very well put. Why is it that some fans are never happy? Always gotta bitch about something. We are 2-0 and I'm happy as hell!

Re: Defensive line still a major issue
 

[quote=chrisl4064;354316]again.... im not talking about our linebackers and safeties. im talking about the front four on a four man rush getting bitched everytime.

and yes, hopefully our secondary plays very well, because honestly if we go into new england with no pressure its over, brady will eat us apart. i would like to see these guys step it up.[/quote]

i think your football knowledge is stuggling. anyone who agees with you is struggling also. a four man rush hardly ever wins, ever. lets run down some teams that blitz consistently....Pitt, New England, San Diego, Philly, Ravens.....all these teams rarely rely on thier front four to get sacks, they are known as blitzing teams. front 4 pressure is overrated. creativity in the blitz game is what gets the pressure on the qb. the teams i mentioned before are tradition power houses on defense. i am not saying front 4 means nothing but i bet if you asked any good defensive coordinator if the front 4s main goal is to stop the run or rush? almost all would say they would rather stop the run with the front 4. i am sick of this argument about how we dont get pressure with our front 4, almost nobody does. the good teams rely on the blitz to do this. i am not much on stats but the stats prove it...to be honest, would our defense be any better with dwight freeny there instead of andre carter? because last year freeny only had 5.5 sacks. carter 6. this argument gets deeper but this post is already too long.

Re: Defensive line still a major issue
 

85 bears, 2000 ravens.......dude the list goes on, nobody just rushed 4 and got it done. i think its easy to see that getting to quarterback is so much more than just the front 4, front 7 might be a better argument. but with the safeties and corner blitzes having become more popular, i would argue that getting to the quarter back is about blitzing not just a straight front 4 pass rush.

Re: Defensive line still a major issue
 

This year is the year of defensive ends in the draft. We will have a surplus to choose from there, and that is where we will get our defensive end from.

Re: Defensive line still a major issue
 

[quote=holcknowsbest;354423]i think your football knowledge is stuggling. anyone who agees with you is struggling also. a four man rush hardly ever wins, ever. lets run down some teams that blitz consistently....Pitt, New England, San Diego, Philly, Ravens.....all these teams rarely rely on thier front four to get sacks, they are known as blitzing teams. front 4 pressure is overrated. creativity in the blitz game is what gets the pressure on the qb. the teams i mentioned before are tradition power houses on defense. i am not saying front 4 means nothing but i bet if you asked any good defensive coordinator if the front 4s main goal is to stop the run or rush? almost all would say they would rather stop the run with the front 4. i am sick of this argument about how we dont get pressure with our front 4, almost nobody does. the good teams rely on the blitz to do this. i am not much on stats but the stats prove it...to be honest, would our defense be any better with dwight freeny there instead of andre carter? because last year freeny only had 5.5 sacks. carter 6. this argument gets deeper but this post is already too long.[/quote]Bringing extra guys is also how big plays in the passing game happen. That's why most teams send only 4 a majority of the time, and generally expect to get pressure. That's pretty elementary.

Pass pressure is just a big give-take conundrum. If you are stronger in the secondary, you blitz more to make the QB throw sooner and rely on the secondary to do their jobs. If your DL is stronger, you blitz less and allow the backers and safeties to help the corners.

Re: Defensive line still a major issue
 

[quote=Schneed10;354307]Well I certainly am not opposed to us going after a stud pass rusher in the offseason, if we can get our hands on one. But to call the defensive line's play a major issue is flat out incorrect.

I remember seeing Carter coming around the edge, forcing Donovan to evade him as Griffin pushed his way into the backfield, wrapping him up and taking him down.

I saw several other instances in which Carter was coming around the edge and Donovan threw the ball just before Carter made contact. McNabb's throws were way off in most of those cases. Some blame it on the knee, and maybe that's true, but you could tell he could not set his feet and get comfortable in the pocket.

Sacks aren't the only measure of defensive line play. Pressure itself makes a big impact on the game.

Now, when McNabb started to get rolling at the end of the second half, he was getting the ball out quickly because GW had the corners back off and leave a cushion to prevent any huge plays. The line didn't have time to get to McNabb before the ball came out.

I thought they did well the other night.[/quote]

I think our DL is average at best. I'd like to see some experimenting there with Wilson and even Golston in certain situations. Nothing to lose, in my opinion. I think Daniels is through and his backup can't rush or play the run to an acceptable degree. That position is going to cost us down the road if we can't come up with something. We can't afford to have our CB's give so much room to receivers, which we have to do when the rush from linemen is poor.

Re: Defensive line still a major issue
 

[quote=wilsowilso;354317]I'm sorry but Andre Carter needs to learn a few moves. I'm not complaining about out DLine except for him and he has still played pretty good. I just think that speed rush to the outside ten yards past the quarterback is useless. Try a drop step or cutback.[/quote]

yeah 100% agree with ya here. Andre seems to do the speed rush to the outside everytime which allows the LT to just ride him farther outside the whole time. If he mixed it up alil more I think he could really catch some guys napping. But atleast we have a DE with speed to do that and AC's motor seems to always be going 110% every snap. Go skins!!

I dont think daniels is done. he holds his ground well against the O-line, hope he comes back soon.

I thought m. washington was going to be our blitz guy this year, havent seen it yet.

Re: Defensive line still a major issue
 

Let's hope Wilson improves as the season goes along. He's only going to be a pass rush specialist this year anyway.

I saw him make a few good moves but not enough to beat his man. He will be getting some more playing time in the coming weeks.

Re: Defensive line still a major issue
 

I am exstatic with what our defense has done. We are on pace to do 40 sacks. That is a huge improvement. Andre carter was putting pressure on all night. McIntosh's sack was realy Andre carter forcing him into his arms. I am more worried about our corners holding up than anything. If they hold up we will have a great defense.

Re: Defensive line still a major issue
 

Griffin also had a sack

Re: Defensive line still a major issue
 

"brady will eat us apart. " what exactly does that mean?

Re: Defensive line still a major issue
 

[quote=dblanch66;354566]"brady will eat us apart. " what exactly does that mean?[/quote]


if we rush only 4 againsed the pats he will. brady is a good passer, im sorry a great passer and his recievers are much better than the eagles recievers who were garbage btw. brady is a great pocket passer and being that we cant force anyone out of the pocket unless we are blitzing, were gonna have problems. no doubt in my mind they will put up points on us, im just hoping gibbs works the clock well and our offense comes together and shows more life by then.

Re: Defensive line still a major issue
 

We are getting better pressure than last year. Not great and not as good as 2005 but a lot of our pressure that year was CG just blowing up the middle of the line. He really had an awesome year that season. I think we are adequate right now but we won't be blowing anyone away with our front four pressure.

Re: Defensive line still a major issue
 

I think we should not question how good a fan you are based off of an opinion that our Dline aint great.
That is certainly common knowledge and though the Dline had ok games the last 2 weeks hardly means they will be anything other than average this year.

We should be free to express our concerns during "win" weeks too.

The reality is Philly could have ran for a lot more yards if only they gave Westbrook the rock. I am taking a wait and see approach with the D.
I sure hope the offense starts clicking because winning by the skin of your teeth every week aint likely to last long. Sooner or later, luck changes.
If Campbell connected with Moss on that bomb, we wouldn't be so focussed on our defensive weak link.

Re: Defensive line still a major issue
 

[quote=chrisl4064;354571]if we rush only 4 againsed the pats he will. brady is a good passer, im sorry a great passer and his recievers are much better than the eagles recievers who were garbage btw. brady is a great pocket passer and being that we cant force anyone out of the pocket unless we are blitzing, were gonna have problems. no doubt in my mind they will put up points on us, im just hoping gibbs works the clock well and our offense comes together and shows more life by then.[/quote]

I have news for you. NE is a better football team than we are.

Re: Defensive line still a major issue
 

this is the way I see it. We basically sent 4 guys all night, other than the few times we blitzed. Any NFL offensive line should be able to handle 4 D-lineman the majority of the time. Carter got somewhat close a few times. 4 down lineman are not going to get consistant pressure on a QB. Especially offenses that run a 2 or 3 step drop offense. Granted McNabb may have had some time to make the throws, but our corners and safeties did their job by not letting anyone get open. Our D line is doing the job their are suppose to do. Stop the run. they are doing a tremendous job so far of clogging running lanes. I dont see our Dline struggling as it did last year.

I personally would like to see more 5 or 6 man blitzes, sometimes 7, but as long as we are stopping people and winning games, I have no complaints.