Portis and Betts: Should We Just Stick With Portis?
 

I love the idea of having both Portis and Betts as a running back tandem. But it seems like before Portis can find his groove, we take him out for a spell and insert Ladell. I'm starting to wonder if the tag combo is more of disadvantage to a running back like Portis, who get's stronger as the game wears on.

I'd like to see Portis flat out get 25 carries per game. I think we'd get more production out of him. But that's why I'm not coaching the Skins, I guess.

Re: Portis and Betts: Should We Just Stick With Portis?
 

I think it just depends on the game situations. Portis has been close to breaking out for a big game, but I don't think we'll see him getting 25+ carries a game anytime soon. I like that we can keep him fresh by getting Betts and even Sellers some meaningful carries.

Re: Portis and Betts: Should We Just Stick With Portis?
 

Getting stronger as the game goes on is a total myth. Makes no logical sense whatsoever.

Going into this year, Portis and Betts had similar career numbers. To date, it's clear that Portis is having the better season. So should he see more carries than Betts? Of course. But having an injured running back get 25 carries a game sounds like a bad idea.

I would throw more if our running game is going to get stuffed as much as it is.

Re: Portis and Betts: Should We Just Stick With Portis?
 

IMO if CP is healthy I would like to see him get 25+ carries per game, he is our #1 back. The more carries he gets, he gets into a nice groove.

With that said, lets stop fumbling the damn ball!

Re: Portis and Betts: Should We Just Stick With Portis?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;360967][B]Getting stronger as the game goes on is a total myth. Makes no logical sense whatsoever.[/B]

Going into this year, Portis and Betts had similar career numbers. To date, it's clear that Portis is having the better season. So should he see more carries than Betts? Of course. But having an injured running back get 25 carries a game sounds like a bad idea.

I would throw more if our running game is going to get stuffed as much as it is.[/quote]

Some backs do put up better numbers as the game wears on. Whether it's due to them getting in the groove or just taking them a while to get warmed up, I definitely think some backs just play better as the game wears on.

Re: Portis and Betts: Should We Just Stick With Portis?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;360967]Going into this year, Portis and Betts had similar career numbers.[/quote]

I guess if you're refering strictly to YPC, they have similar numbers, but Betts did it consistently, one time for half a season. With his production this season, last season is looking like a fluke. And he still can't find the endzone.

And I'm not sure how I feel about splitting carries. On one hand, it'll keep Portis fresh, which does seem to benefit him, but on the other hand, he's out of the game on some plays where his unique skills would be useful. It seems to be working for the moment, so I'll just go with the flow for now.

Re: Portis and Betts: Should We Just Stick With Portis?
 

[quote=Mattyk72;360973]Some backs do put up better numbers as the game wears on. Whether it's due to them getting in the groove or just taking them a while to get warmed up, I definitely think some backs just play better as the game wears on.[/quote]Consistently though? I think some opponents may allow more YPC on the ground later than others, but I can't think of any backs who were definately better late than early.

A good back is a good back. Unless conditioning is an issue (which it never seems to be), I can't think of any explination for a runner actually being harder to tackle later in the game.

Re: Portis and Betts: Should We Just Stick With Portis?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;360967]Getting stronger as the game goes on is a total myth. Makes no logical sense whatsoever.

Going into this year, Portis and Betts had similar career numbers. To date, it's clear that Portis is having the better season. So should he see more carries than Betts? Of course. But having an injured running back get 25 carries a game sounds like a bad idea.

I would throw more if our running game is going to get stuffed as much as it is.[/quote]


I wasn't speaking in literal physical terms. Stronger in football terms, meaning more effective and, yes, punishing tacklers along the way. So in that way, I absolutely think "stronger" has some merrit. But that's not my argument.

I would like to see Portis have a better shot at going over the century mark a little more often. That's my only point. I think he's a better back when he gets in the 95yd - 120yd range. And while splitting carries does indeed keep him fresh, I think it would be nice to see a break out game from him a few times this year.

Re: Portis and Betts: Should We Just Stick With Portis?
 

As mentioned before i think health concerns have a lot to do w/ it. In 2005 we ran portis to death. He can handle it when 100%. Its a long season and we have 2 great backs.

Re: Portis and Betts: Should We Just Stick With Portis?
 

[quote=12thMan;360979]I would like to see Portis have a better shot at going over the century mark a little more often. That's my only point. I think he's a better back when he gets in the 95yd - 120yd range. And while splitting carries does indeed keep him fresh, I think it would be nice to see a break out game from him a few times this year.[/quote]Isn't that backwards though? Is it worth it to run Portis 30 times to get to 100 yards when that is not our best offensive play.

If we can average 7 yards a play every time Campbell throws, and Portis averages between 3.5 and 4 yards a carry, should we really be running the ball more?

I guess it would be nice to see a breakout game from Portis, but not at the expense of total yards, points, or Portis' health.

I like him getting around 15-20 carries a week. Who cares how many 100 yard games he gets? Its an arbitrary number, just like 87 yard games.

Re: Portis and Betts: Should We Just Stick With Portis?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;360967]Getting stronger as the game goes on is a total myth. Makes no logical sense whatsoever.

[B]Going into this year, Portis and Betts had similar career numbers[/B]. To date, it's clear that Portis is having the better season. So should he see more carries than Betts? Of course. But having an injured running back get 25 carries a game sounds like a bad idea.

I would throw more if our running game is going to get stuffed as much as it is.[/quote]
what? Betts is as best a career back up. i totally agree with getting Portis the bulk of the carries. he has proven in his career that he can find the end zone. it does seem that when he starts getting into a groove, Betts comes in for him

Re: Portis and Betts: Should We Just Stick With Portis?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;360985]Isn't that backwards though? Is it worth it to run Portis 30 times to get to 100 yards when that is not our best offensive play.

If we can average 7 yards a play every time Campbell throws, and Portis averages between 3.5 and 4 yards a carry, should we really be running the ball more?

I guess it would be nice to see a breakout game from Portis, but not at the expense of total yards, points, or Portis' health.

I like him getting around 15-20 carries a week. Who cares how many 100 yard games he gets? Its an arbitrary number, just like 87 yard games.[/quote]

What's backwards about that? More carries equal more yards; In a perfect world that is.

The crux of my argument is very simple, I simply think Clinton Portis is a home run type back. And the more touches he get's, the more likely we are to see to that.

I'm not arguing the merits of health, yards per pass, yard per offensive play, keeping him fresh, or anything else for that matter. I think the coaches are doing a fine job inter-changing both backs, by the way, and bringing JC along at the same time.

I think the more Portis carries the ball, the more likely we are to see that home run threat we're used to seeing and want to see.

Re: Portis and Betts: Should We Just Stick With Portis?
 

The only reason we average 7 yards per pass attempt (assuming that's true, i didn't verify...), is because every D that plays us is focused on stopping the run. If we through all of the time, you'd see our ypc go up and our yppa go down.

Re: Portis and Betts: Should We Just Stick With Portis?
 

[quote=dmek25;360988]what? Betts is as best a career back up. i totally agree with getting Portis the bulk of the carries. he has proven in his career that he can find the end zone. it does seem that when he starts getting into a groove, Betts comes in for him[/quote]
OK... I got a little inside scoop recently... a pretty good source..... I heard Portis is the one who usually takes himself out of the game.... that to me shows a lack of heart.

Re: Portis and Betts: Should We Just Stick With Portis?
 

[quote=12thMan;360992]What's backwards about that? More carries equal more yards; In a perfect world that is.

The crux of my argument is very simple, I simply think Clinton Portis is a home run type back. And the more touches he get's, the more likely we are to see to that.

I'm not arguing the merits of health, yards per pass, yard per offensive play, keeping him fresh, or anything else for that matter. I think the coaches are doing a fine job inter-changing both backs, by the way, and bringing JC along at the same time.

I think the more Portis carries the ball, the more likely we are to see that home run threat we're used to seeing and want to see.[/quote]But the goal isn't to get more yards for your RB? It's to get more total yards. If CPs aver per carry is low, aren't we hurting the team by giving him extra carries?

I think what you are getting at is that should we run enough with Portis, he may be able to break the big play. Or the "home-run" threat as you put it. This is accurate, but still it seems a little backwards to me. If Portis isn't producing big plays with 20 carries a game, why should we try to add another 5-10 carries? Sure, Portis gets more chances, but is that a good idea?

Actually, I kinda see what you and Matty are saying now, its all about giving him more shots to break the big one. That's fine, but I think the same concept should go for any player on our offense. If creating big plays is the goal, I think the best way to do that is to get the ball in space to Moss, Randle El, or Cooley.

Ok, so yeah, my misunderstanding, I apologize. I still disagree that its the best way to go about it, but it makes sense. More carries equals more shots to go for a long one. Of course he has the same shot of breaking the first one long as he does the 27th. So at some point, I think you just have to cut yourself off and start going with plays that will net more yardage.

If Portis was averaging 5.0 yards an attempt, this would be different. Because he gets stuffed so much due to some poor blocking, its a bad idea to try to pound the square Portis into a round hole until a big play happens.

But it's not the worst possible idea. That would be trying to throw it down the field over and over again until you punt or get intercepted.

Re: Portis and Betts: Should We Just Stick With Portis?
 

[quote=Redskin Rich;361009]OK... I got a little inside scoop recently... a pretty good source..... I heard Portis is the one who usually takes himself out of the game.... that to me shows a lack of heart.[/quote]Or maybe fatigue.

Either one really.

Re: Portis and Betts: Should We Just Stick With Portis?
 

[quote=Redskin Rich;361009]OK... I got a little inside scoop recently... a pretty good source..... I heard Portis is the one who usually takes himself out of the game.... that to me shows a lack of heart.[/quote]

Yeah we've pretty much known this for a while now it's not really a secret.

All I know is when he's on the field he busts his ass and goes 110 mph whether it's running or blocking.

I have zero questions regarding his heart and I don't see what the big deal is if he takes himself out, Gibbs has let him do that from day one.

Re: Portis and Betts: Should We Just Stick With Portis?
 

[quote=Mattyk72;361018]Yeah we've pretty much known this for a while now it's not really a secret.

All I know is when he's on the field he busts his ass and goes 110 mph whether it's running or blocking.

I have zero questions regarding his heart and I don't see what the big deal is if he takes himself out, Gibbs has let him do that from day one.[/quote]
Yes, but the true great running backs don't do that... Either he has little heart, or he just is not in shape to been an everydown back.

However you slice that, means IMO he is overpaid.

Re: Portis and Betts: Should We Just Stick With Portis?
 

[quote=Redskin Rich;361021]Yes, but the true great running backs don't do that... Either he has little heart, or he just is not in shape to been an everydown back.

However you slice that, means IMO he is overpaid.[/quote]

Plenty of guys check themselves in and out.

If Gibbs is ok with it, so am I.

The results speak for themselves on the field. CP is on pace for close to 1200 yards and 12 TDs. And people are still finding ways to bash on him. I don't get it. :doh:

Re: Portis and Betts: Should We Just Stick With Portis?
 

[quote=Redskin Rich;361021]Yes, but the true great running backs don't do that... Either he has little heart, or he just is not in shape to been an everydown back.

However you slice that, means IMO he is overpaid.[/quote]

Considering what he's produced so far this season... so is Betts.

Re: Portis and Betts: Should We Just Stick With Portis?
 

[quote=Mattyk72;361022]Plenty of guys check themselves in and out.

If Gibbs is ok with it, so am I.

The results speak for themselves on the field. CP is on pace for close to 1200 yards and 12 TDs. And people are still finding ways to bash on him. I don't get it. :doh:[/quote]

Agreed. And I'm perfectly fine with him "only" getting 1200 yards since the passing game is becoming more effective each week.

Re: Portis and Betts: Should We Just Stick With Portis?
 

[quote=Southpaw;361024]Considering what he's produced so far this season... so is Betts.[/quote]
Betts is not being paid superstar money... he is being paid back up money... how is that overpaid?

Re: Portis and Betts: Should We Just Stick With Portis?
 

[quote=Redskin Rich;361032]Betts is not being paid superstar money... he is being paid back up money... how is that overpaid?[/quote]

He's not making the vet min. either and he's only averaging 2.7 yards per carry this year.

Re: Portis and Betts: Should We Just Stick With Portis?
 

I feel like a broken record with this. Anyone who watches Portis on the field, especially when he's not carrying the ball-so when he's laying out a block, running a route, or chasing down a defender after a turnover, has no reason at all to question his heart. None.

Re: Portis and Betts: Should We Just Stick With Portis?
 

With the two back system....portis has managed to play in every game this season.....much better than last year....I think things are working the way they are. Keep him fresh...cause when he is...he has all the tools.....betts will get better as the season progresses

Re: Portis and Betts: Should We Just Stick With Portis?
 

Do people just need something to complain about? Portis getting through the season healthy is a good thing and cutting back on his carries a bit is a good thing. If Portis has no future with this team beyond this season then run the hell out of him and damn the consequences. If you want to think longer term then it is much better for him to get 18 carries than to get 25-30. In Denver he never carried more than 290 times, in Washington he was carrying 350 a year until last season. Last year Betts proved he could carry the rock. This year he isn't getting the carries and maybe is pressing a bit when he is in there but he is still valuable and I think he has been running hard when he gets the chance from everything I've seen. If you go back and watch the Giants game at the end he slammed it in there hard, especially that fist carry. Last season everyone loved Betts, this offseason at least a few people questioned Portis' future with the team, how the world turns ... I guess I'll just wait until the next time the Skins lose and some people start calling for Joe Gibbs' head.

Re: Portis and Betts: Should We Just Stick With Portis?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;361046]I feel like a broken record with this. Anyone who watches Portis on the field, especially when he's not carrying the ball-so when he's laying out a block, running a route, or chasing down a defender after a turnover, has no reason at all to question his heart. None.[/quote]

Best running back in the NFL when he doesn't have the ball in his hands (not saying he's not pretty good when he does have the ball in his hand).

Re: Portis and Betts: Should We Just Stick With Portis?
 

I think the two back system is working. Portis is staying healthy and is productive. Betts, in my view, still runs the counter runs better than Portis and is a more reliable receiver. Portis is the big play threat. Portis and Betts makes one of the best two back combinations in the NFL. Keep it going.

Re: Portis and Betts: Should We Just Stick With Portis?
 

Like I said, I have no problem with the two back system. It's working fine. I'd just like to see Portis get about 5 to 10 more touches. Maybe not every game, just more often.

Re: Portis and Betts: Should We Just Stick With Portis?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;361046]I feel like a broken record with this. Anyone who watches Portis on the field, especially when he's not carrying the ball-so when he's laying out a block, running a route, or chasing down a defender after a turnover, has no reason at all to question his heart. None.[/quote]AMEN!!!

Re: Portis and Betts: Should We Just Stick With Portis?
 

[QUOTE=SouperMeister;361079]AMEN!!![/QUOTE]

Is Soup's Uncle actually your uncle?

Re: Portis and Betts: Should We Just Stick With Portis?
 

Bottom line is this....we have 2 REALLY good running backs...Portis gives more of a burst and straight speed in the open, not to mention one HELL of a blocker...Betts is a good change of pace and a good solid backup...he's not gonna be the next Larry Johnson coming after Priest Holmes. Remember too guys, we only have Rabach and Samuels from last year...this IS a make-shift O-line! We still have a good running game which is contributing to Campbells development and the passing game improving.

Re: Portis and Betts: Should We Just Stick With Portis?
 

I still say they put them both in at the same time.

BTW...anyone notice that they didn't have Betts running sweeps this week...THANK YOU Coach!

Re: Portis and Betts: Should We Just Stick With Portis?
 

I don't think Portis has been 100% healthly all year, except for the first game. He has been nicked up a lot and that is probably why he is out of the game so much. I would like to see him get really healthy and then we might see his "break out" game.

Re: Portis and Betts: Should We Just Stick With Portis?
 

Does anyone remember a running back by the name of Stephen Davis when we had Terry Allen??? When Allen left, everyone thought that Skip Hicks would be our stud (another scat back)... now... what type of career did Stephen Davis have, and what ever happened to Skip Hicks???

:duel:

Re: Portis and Betts: Should We Just Stick With Portis?
 

[QUOTE=Redskin Rich;361091]Does anyone remember a running back by the name of Stephen Davis when we had Terry Allen??? When Allen left, everyone thought that Skip Hicks would be our stud (another scat back)... now... what type of career did Stephen Davis have, and what ever happened to Skip Hicks???

:duel:[/QUOTE]

What's your point?

Re: Portis and Betts: Should We Just Stick With Portis?
 

[quote=Redskin Rich;361091]Does anyone remember a running back by the name of Stephen Davis when we had Terry Allen??? When Allen left, everyone thought that Skip Hicks would be our stud (another scat back)... now... what type of career did Stephen Davis have, and what ever happened to Skip Hicks???[/quote]

Please tell me you're not relating Clinton Portis to Skip EFFING Hicks...

And comparing Stephen Davis to Betts is a bit of a stretch too, considering Davis wasn't allergic to touchdowns.

Re: Portis and Betts: Should We Just Stick With Portis?
 

Hasn't everyone here daydreamed about if we still had Davis in his prime when Gibbs came back???? Ahhhh....what might have been.

Re: Portis and Betts: Should We Just Stick With Portis?
 

[quote=Redskins247;361102]Hasn't everyone here daydreamed about if we still had Davis in his prime when Gibbs came back???? Ahhhh....what might have been.[/quote]

Uhhh... Portis broke Davis' rushing record under Gibbs. And what would it have mattered? The quarterback situation was still a mess when Gibbs came back.

Re: Portis and Betts: Should We Just Stick With Portis?
 

Im not even gonna get into this squabble because anyone that doesn't see Portis' talent or the amount of heart he has simply doesn't know what the F they are talking about. I am glad to see people come to his defense. He is by fr my favorite player in the NFL. Noone seems to play with as much passion and love for the game as him (ok, maybe Brett Favre). I hope he is here for years to come, and I hope to one day see his name and # hung up in the Skins ring of honor. He is the heart of this team and to question that is ridiculous.