Chris Carter on Art Monk and Hall of Fame Denial
 

Just read this on yahoo sports from Chris Carter...formerly of Vikings:


"I'm a huge Washington Redskins fan and I cannot understand why Art Monk has not been selected for the Hall of Fame. Art was the all-time leading receiver (940 receptions) at one time in his career and won a couple of Super Bowls. Michael Irvin was inducted last year. Why do you think they keep passing Art by?"

Joel Shuster
Randolph, N.J.

The No. 1 argument I hear against Monk is the lack of Pro Bowl appearances. He only made it three times. When you look at the amount of time he played – 16 years – and in his conference, he was only among the top four receivers three times, then how could he be a Hall of Famer? And keep in mind here: we're just talking about within his conference, not the whole league. And people say, if they were only going to take one receiver away from the Redskins offense, they would try to slow down Gary Clark. When you take all of that into consideration, there's a very strong case to keep him out of Canton.

Re: Chris Carter on Art Monk and Hall of Fame Denial
 

How many probowls did Riggins make?...something like 1 or 2 right. The whole thing is crap. Considering the trash that make it into the probowl year in and year out...I'm not even sure its a valid measuring device. There is plenty to support Monk. Besides that, look at the other receivers of his era that are in....Lynn Swann? Give me a break! Maybe if Monk cried every time someone mentioned the hall of fame instead of just living his life, he'd be in by now.

Re: Chris Carter on Art Monk and Hall of Fame Denial
 

[quote=AlvinWalton'sNeckBrace;362592]How many probowls did Riggins make?...something like 1 or 2 right. The whole thing is crap. Considering the trash that make it into the probowl year in and year out...I'm not even sure its a valid measuring device. There is plenty to support Monk. Besides that, look at the other receivers of his era that are in....Lynn Swann? Give me a break! Maybe if Monk cried every time someone mentioned the hall of fame instead of just living his life, he'd be in by now.[/quote]

correct me if I'm wrong - Riggo never made the pro bowl.
Clark was the more dangerous deep reciever, but dropped a lot more.

It almost sounds like he's looking for reasons not to vote him in, rather than looking at all the many reasons to vote him in.

I remember watching the last 4-5 years of Monk's career & so often he was referred to as "future hall of famer Art Monk." Can't believe it when I think about it now.

Re: Chris Carter on Art Monk and Hall of Fame Denial
 

Isn't Carter up for election now along with Monk? If so do you think he is trying to build a case against Monk to make himself look better?

Re: Chris Carter on Art Monk and Hall of Fame Denial
 

[quote=freddyg12;362602]correct me if I'm wrong - Riggo never made the pro bowl.
Clark was the more dangerous deep reciever, but dropped a lot more.

It almost sounds like he's looking for reasons not to vote him in, rather than looking at all the many reasons to vote him in.

I remember watching the last 4-5 years of Monk's career & so often he was referred to as "future hall of famer Art Monk." Can't believe it when I think about it now.[/quote]

Riggo made 1...I looked it up. Good point about Clark. He did drop a lot of balls. Anyone who wonders about Carter being a jack ass needs only to look back at his comments two years ago during our playoff run. He is an idiot and in love with himself.

Re: Chris Carter on Art Monk and Hall of Fame Denial
 

Maybe people around the league should have voted him to more probowls.

Two wrongs don't make a right.

Re: Chris Carter on Art Monk and Hall of Fame Denial
 

[quote=freddyg12;362602]correct me if I'm wrong - Riggo never made the pro bowl.
Clark was the more dangerous deep reciever, but dropped a lot more.

It almost sounds like he's looking for reasons not to vote him in, rather than looking at all the many reasons to vote him in.

I remember watching the last 4-5 years of Monk's career & so often he was referred to as "future hall of famer Art Monk." Can't believe it when I think about it now.[/quote]
I was amazed to learn how few Riggo made... but it is a requirement to be considered eligible for the hall of fame to have made a pro bowl....

You realize that mean Gus Frerotte is eligible.
:Smoker:

Re: Chris Carter on Art Monk and Hall of Fame Denial
 

[quote=AlvinWalton'sNeckBrace;362605]Riggo made 1...I looked it up. Good point about Clark. He did drop a lot of balls. Anyone who wonders about Carter being a jack ass needs only to look back at his comments two years ago during our playoff run. He is an idiot and in love with himself.[/quote]

Alvin - what did he say about the Redskins run? - just curious

Re: Chris Carter on Art Monk and Hall of Fame Denial
 

Anyone know what Carter's numbers look like compared to Monks? I know one fact...NO Superbowl appearances in his career!

Re: Chris Carter on Art Monk and Hall of Fame Denial
 

[quote=Wanga Skins;362603]Isn't Carter up for election now along with Monk? If so do you think he is trying to build a case against Monk to make himself look better?[/quote]


Wanga - you are correct - Carter and Tim Brown are both coming up so the WR vote is getting crowded again. Here is a post from Rick Gosselin of the Dallas News who is a HOF voter....

[B]"Rick Gosselin:[/B] The wide receiver queue is getting jammed up now with Monk and Andre Reed already there and both Cris Carter and Tim Brown soon to enter. We’ve had lively discussions about Monk and he’s been close. I think we as committee are having a difficult time defining what a Hall of Fame receiver is. Is it statistics? Is it championships? Is it impact? Monk played on three Super Bowl championship teams and wasn’t a Pro Bowl receiver in any of those three seasons. Yet the Redskins had a Pro Bowl wide receiver in each of those three seasons – Charlie Brown in 1982 and Gary Clark in both 1987 and 1991. I can’t imagine the Cowboys winning a Super Bowl in the 1990s without Michael Irvin as their go-to guy and Pro Bowl wide receiver."

So basically the HOF voters don't even know the parameters on which to vote on and this has become a glorified popularity contest that gets media friendly players in the door first. since Monk did not do a lot of interviews and wasn't a media guy he gets unfairly punished.

Here is a link to anyone ever interested in Art Monk and the HOF and updates to any events relating to this. Hopefully the HOF voting committee will get its head out of the sand and vote him in....

[url=http://artmonk.wordpress.com/]The Art Monk Hall of Fame Campaign[/url]

Re: Chris Carter on Art Monk and Hall of Fame Denial
 

[quote=Bill B;362661]Alvin - what did he say about the Redskins run? - just curious[/quote]

I believe it was Carter that said something to the effect that he'd dress up like a Redskin if they made the playoffs right? I can't remember exactly...we took a lot of crap that year

Re: Chris Carter on Art Monk and Hall of Fame Denial
 

First off, Carter is a Redskins hater. Second, the Pro-bowl voting is a popularity contest. If these idiots knew what Monk did, he be a shoe in, just ask the defensive coaches he played against who made them shit their pants? Monk might not have made the highlight for acrobatic catches, but the man always made the key first down catch or the tough catch down the middle. You don't accumulate 940 receptions by sitting on your ass, I'm sick of all the excuses they make to keep him out. FUCK ALL THOSE SO CALLED EXPERTS!!!

Re: Chris Carter on Art Monk and Hall of Fame Denial
 

Such a complete load of BS--stats, wins, character, impact, records. Carter is obviously trying to get in himself by starting a smear campaign. It's exactly the type of think MONK WOULD NEVER DO! I mean, you can't even imagine Monk doing something like that. It's a sad state of affairs where a whinny punk like Carter (how many rings you got, biatch?) might get in before Monk precisely BECAUSE he pulled this kind of shit.

Weak. The hall's a joke without Monk, and a bigger joke if Carter goes in first.

Re: Chris Carter on Art Monk and Hall of Fame Denial
 

And also playing him off Clark, like you can only take one skin, so it's Clark. How about two? Here's an idea: Monk and Clark, and leave Carter out, if we're trying to save space.

Re: Chris Carter on Art Monk and Hall of Fame Denial
 

Clark's just mad because the Vikings still say Moss is the best receiver they've ever had! He completely overshadowed Carter as soon as he arrived and he's never gotten past that!

Re: Chris Carter on Art Monk and Hall of Fame Denial
 

Monk was the leading WR of all time when he retired in an era where the passing game was not as revolutionized (sp?) as it is today. That means he caught more balls than anyone in the history of the freakin NFL. I believe that he is still in the top 5 today. End of discussion.

Re: Chris Carter on Art Monk and Hall of Fame Denial
 

Ok so Carter was know for acrobatic catches, how many rings does he have? Since when did the "I look good making a catch" over "I made the key catches that propelled my team to the playoffs and superbowl" become the motto for making it to the HOF. Call me crazy or an idiot but I'll take Monk over Jerry Rice anyday. Monk didn't pad his stats playing the Falcons, Saints and Rams twice a year (all shitty teams during the 80's) Monk Earned his receptions against the Giants (2 SB during the 80's) Cowboys (despite being crappy during the 80's they were always tough) Eagles (in the playoffs quite a bit during the 80's). Enough said this is all like the "Miss Universe contest".

Re: Chris Carter on Art Monk and Hall of Fame Denial
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan69;362764]Monk was the leading WR of all time when he retired in an era where the passing game was not as revolutionized (sp?) as it is today. That means he caught more balls than anyone in the history of the freakin NFL. I believe that he is still in the top 5 today. End of discussion.[/QUOTE]

Really, this is one of the best arguments...cause if Monk doesn't make it, then why should ANY wr before him be allowed to go in...or stay in?

To me, there are a lot of players that aer classless and in the hall of fame. Not that I disagree with it, but a person that oozes class should have more consideration. That should be a factor if you ask me.
I'm still pretty disgusted that Irvin made it over Monk. Irvin took drugs, and violated the NFL...gave the NFL a black eye. How do we know he wasn't high every time he played? Monk was a class act and went about his business, and sacrificed himself for the benefit of the team, and he's being punished for it. Quite a shame.

I have been to Cooperstown, and I have been to the Basketball HOF, I have also been to the Hockey HOF, but I will not go to Canton until Monk is put in. If classy, record breaking, honorable players can't make it in, then I don't want to go in either.

Re: Chris Carter on Art Monk and Hall of Fame Denial
 

pro bowls are like high school elections...nothing more than popularity contests (i'm not sure it was like that back when monk played- but he was quiet and unassuming...not exactly big man on campus- even if he was a star).

Re: Chris Carter on Art Monk and Hall of Fame Denial
 

I remember being 11 years old, watching the superbowl in '91. To this day, I can still remember clearly hearing the announcer (dierdorf?) say, "that was Art Monk's drive." He was commenting on a drive where basically every play was a pass to Monk, moving the ball methodically down the field. (pardon any errors here I'm going from 16 year old memories) Why is it that Hall of Fame voters don't remember that as a signature play/series for Art Monk. Maybe it wasn't flashy but it made enough of an impression on my young mind to be clearly recalled 16 years later. Sounds like a signature to me...

Re: Chris Carter on Art Monk and Hall of Fame Denial
 

It should be a no brainer...Art Monk deserves to be the in the Hall of Fame. Period. Say what you want his stats dont lie and his character is leaps and bounds above people like Micheal Irvin...And i think character should play a little part in induction to the Hall. On the field Irvin was the go to guy but off the field well thats another story. Monk should have been inducted a long time ago. And lets just hope he makes it before Carter and Reed. He is a 3 time superbowl champion and thats gotta carry some weight as well.

Re: Chris Carter on Art Monk and Hall of Fame Denial
 

I've said this on more than one occasion and I'll say it again, the Hall of Fame will never be what it ought to be until they induct Art Monk in.

I once visited the Hall of Fame when I was kid. My best friend's dad took us on a road trip from Washington D.C. to Canton, Ohio. On the way we stopped at his sister's graduation ceremony at Ohio State. Ironically, the same class as Art Schlichter. I thought I was in football heaven -seriously. In just about every room and upon nearly every turn you see those sculpted bronze busts of legends staring you down, almost silently telling you their story and why they deserved to be there.

Monk's absence from the Hall is almost like visiting the Air and Space Museum here in D.C., and not seeing any exhibits or artifacts of the first trip to the moon. No Neil Armstrong, no Space Shuttle photos, no Kitty Hawk, no dust from the moon. You know, it's a place of firsts. We've advanced so much since Armstrong first stepped foot on the moon, but it doesn't diminish the greatness of the men and women who have gone before.

Sure, football records have been broken and the game has evolved since Monk left, but he was the [I]first[/I] in many of those categories and he did it with class and dignity. In that regard, I'm not sure what the Hall of Fame really stands for anymore. I mean, is it the Hall of Stats? The Hall of "media" Fame? I'm not sure, but I'm so glad Monk has been tight lipped about the whole thing and let others opine about the situation.

Re: Chris Carter on Art Monk and Hall of Fame Denial
 

i think that crazy sob cris"formerly of the eagles until buddy ryan cut me because i was a drunken idiot"carter needs to quit eating so much of that nutri system food that is bound to be contaminated.randy moss was so screwed up because carter was his mentor.if he makes it into the HOF as anything other than the on site janitor,it's a catastrophe!!!!

Re: Chris Carter on Art Monk and Hall of Fame Denial
 

[QUOTE=AlvinWalton'sNeckBrace;362605]Riggo made 1...I looked it up. [B]Good point about Clark. He did drop a lot of balls.[/B] Anyone who wonders about Carter being a jack ass needs only to look back at his comments two years ago during our playoff run. He is an idiot and in love with himself.[/QUOTE]

:offtopic: Does anyone remember that when Clark dropped a pass, Gibbs would usually call his number for the very next play and Clark would typically make good on the next pass?

Re: Chris Carter on Art Monk and Hall of Fame Denial
 

What I don't get is...if Monk was so unworthy...then who on that team WAS. Why are none of the Hogs in the hall of fame. What about Gary Clark if he was such a bad ass. Its just dumb...and puts a very sour taste in my mouth considering pro football in general. We won three superbowls and as far as I can tell, exactly 1 guy from any of those teams is in the hall of fame (Riggins). Players that is....obviously Gibbs is in.

Re: Chris Carter on Art Monk and Hall of Fame Denial
 

[QUOTE=AlvinWalton'sNeckBrace;362888]What I don't get is...if Monk was so unworthy...then who on that team WAS. Why are none of the Hogs in the hall of fame. What about Gary Clark if he was such a bad ass. Its just dumb...and puts a very sour taste in my mouth considering pro football in general. We won three superbowls and as far as I can tell, exactly 1 guy from any of those teams is in the hall of fame (Riggins). Players that is....obviously Gibbs is in.[/QUOTE]

My thoughts as well....I always just assumed Monk and Green would go right in....and maybe even Theismann.

Re: Chris Carter on Art Monk and Hall of Fame Denial
 

[quote=jsarno;362805]Really, this is one of the best arguments...cause if Monk doesn't make it, then why should ANY wr before him be allowed to go in...or stay in?

To me, there are a lot of players that aer classless and in the hall of fame. Not that I disagree with it, but a person that oozes class should have more consideration. That should be a factor if you ask me.
I'm still pretty disgusted that Irvin made it over Monk. Irvin took drugs, and violated the NFL...gave the NFL a black eye. How do we know he wasn't high every time he played? Monk was a class act and went about his business, and sacrificed himself for the benefit of the team, and he's being punished for it. Quite a shame.

I have been to Cooperstown, and I have been to the Basketball HOF, I have also been to the Hockey HOF, but I will not go to Canton until Monk is put in. If classy, record breaking, honorable players can't make it in, then I don't want to go in either.[/quote]

Jsarno - one other thing to consider - Irvin had Troy Aikman throwing to him while Monk had a bunch of different qb's thowiing to him. Imagine if during Monk's career he had one hall of fame QB the whole time - he'd probably have even better stats. During Monk's time in Washington how many different qb's were throwing him the ball? To me this proves he is even a better reciever since he had to adjust to so many differnt qb's during his time in Washington.

Not to mention Emmitt Smith being in Dallas didn't hurt Irvin's stats either. I can't imagine how many different running backs were on the Redskins during Monk's tenure with the team.

Re: Chris Carter on Art Monk and Hall of Fame Denial
 

how can anyone listen to a former player that owes his whole career to Buddy Ryan?

Re: Chris Carter on Art Monk and Hall of Fame Denial
 

Thought it fitting to post this bit of NFL history. Interesting score:

[I]October 12 [/I]
[I][B]1992[/B] — Washington wide receiver Art Monk becomes the NFL's all-time leading receiver when he makes his 820th career reception in a [B]34-3[/B] victory over the Broncos.[/I]

Re: Chris Carter on Art Monk and Hall of Fame Denial
 

The probowl thing is totally overblown as well in the fact you have to choose the best WR in the division at the time . Lets say for example Marvin Harrison, Chad Johnson and Randy Moss all went out for the season this month and Reggie Wayne and Donte Stallworth have to come in and and carry the load but do not really excel and are not even comparable to how Moss and the others were playing but end up the best recivers in the AFC does they are automatically better?

Re: Chris Carter on Art Monk and Hall of Fame Denial
 

[QUOTE=724Skinsfan;363094]Thought it fitting to post this bit of NFL history. Interesting score:

[I]October 12 [/I]
[I][B]1992[/B] — Washington wide receiver Art Monk becomes the NFL's all-time leading receiver when he makes his 820th career reception in a [B]34-3[/B] victory over the Broncos.[/I][/QUOTE]

Nice. Very nice. I remember that game like it was yesterday

Re: Chris Carter on Art Monk and Hall of Fame Denial
 

[QUOTE=Bill B;362950]Jsarno - one other thing to consider - Irvin had Troy Aikman throwing to him while Monk had a bunch of different qb's thowiing to him. Imagine if during Monk's career he had one hall of fame QB the whole time - he'd probably have even better stats. During Monk's time in Washington how many different qb's were throwing him the ball? To me this proves he is even a better reciever since he had to adjust to so many differnt qb's during his time in Washington.

Not to mention Emmitt Smith being in Dallas didn't hurt Irvin's stats either. I can't imagine how many different running backs were on the Redskins during Monk's tenure with the team.[/QUOTE]

I absolutely agree! I still get all flustered when he doesn't make it in cause he's such a clear cut case. Makes me wonder if something is going on behind the scenes. It's not like you find many announcers or reporters saying "Monk doesn't deserve it", you always here them say why Monk should be in, and he was snubbed. Well if so many people think he should be in, then get him in!
There is no one more deserving of the hall (that is eligible and not in right now) in any sport more so than Monk. Jim Rice is the closest in Baseball, but still, he's no Art Monk. This is something that football needs to correct. What message is this sending to our youth?

Re: Chris Carter on Art Monk and Hall of Fame Denial
 

Look at Lynn Swann.
Played 115 games over 9 seasons, 3 time pro bowler. Has 336 catches for 5462 yards and 51 tds. Career high was 61 catches in a season, and 880 yards and 11 tds (that's right, Swann NEVER had a 1000 yard season...never had a 900 yard season). Swann is not in the top 50 in ANY major catagory.

Monk played 224 games over 16 seasons and was a 3 time pro bowler. He had 940 catches for 12,721 yards and 68 tds. Career high was 106 catches (then a record) and 1372 yards, and 8 tds. Monk has gone over 1000 yards 5 times, he's gone over 880 yards (swann's career high) 7 times. He's gone over 61 catches in a season (swann's career high) 7 times. His receptions mark was #1 all time when he retired, and his yards was #2 all time when he retired. He now ranks 6th all time receptions, 11th in yards, 30th in rec. tds (was top 15 when retired), and 32nd is yards from scrimmage all time.

I just don't get it.

Re: Chris Carter on Art Monk and Hall of Fame Denial
 

Glory and recognition is nice, but as long as the redskins fans know how valuable he was, I think that may be good enough.

Non-redskins fans and even redskins fans that aren't old enough to remember his playing days can't appreciate what he gave to the team. It goes beyond his stats, his games, and even the superbowls he helped win. Even when he was playing for the team, I remember taking him for granted because I thought he wasn't flashy or explosive enough. But after he left the redskins, I saw the difference with his absence and I realized how stupid I was.

And as stupid as it may sound - it doesn't matter if he doesn't get in the Hall of Fame, he doesn't need it to validate how great he was.

Re: Chris Carter on Art Monk and Hall of Fame Denial
 

Oh, forgot to do averages:
Swann,
averaged 33 catches a season, and 607 yards with 5.67 tds per season.
Monk,
averaged 59 catches a season, and 795 yards with 4.25 tds per season.

So Monk averaged 26 more catches, and 188 yards more per season. That's a huge difference! Swann averaged only 1.42 more td's per season. Not a whole lot more.