Is Wade the problem? Thinking about the O-line
 

The last few games, it seems to me Wade has made several very much unforced errors in pass pro. And it's not like he's done anything much in the run game. Yes, one of the Vrabl sacks was on the Portis/Sellers whiff. But at least one of the others was just Wade standing there like a statue as Vrabl ran by and smacked our young QB.

I would like to see Heyer (if he's healthy, of course) out there. Yes, he's got liabilities, but I think he's got more upside. Further, it may be time to give DeMulling a try--at least to see how he works with the line. I know that the o-line is in flux and messing with it more may be trouble, but IMO it's just not working now. And a Gibbs/Saunders O without a good line is just what we're seeing--poo.

Thoughts?

Re: Is Wade the problem? Thinking about the O-line
 

My thought is, "how can it possibly hurt?"

Re: Is Wade the problem? Thinking about the O-line
 

Give these guys one more shot......bugle usually needs a few games to get the guys gelling. We just can't have any more injuries

Re: Is Wade the problem? Thinking about the O-line
 

Wade is still our best option.

I know some people out there have a hard-on for Heyer, but he's still a liability and needs help on his side way too often.

I say leave the lineup alone and hope they can pull it together. They need to keep fighting and find some consistency. Juggling the lineup again is not going to help us find that consistency.

Re: Is Wade the problem? Thinking about the O-line
 

Injuries are the problem.. Wade was AWFUL yesterday but hasn't looked bad the rest of the games he's played.. I think missing Thomas has the biggest impact on the OL then Jansen. I thought Jansen was definitely on the downside of his career so it wasn't really a huge dropoff..

Re: Is Wade the problem? Thinking about the O-line
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;370894]Wade is still our best option.

I know some people out there have a hard-on for Heyer, but he's still a liability and needs help on his side way too often.

I say leave the lineup alone and hope they can pull it together. They need to keep fighting and find some consistency. Juggling the lineup again is not going to help us find that consistency.[/QUOTE]

I do not have a hard-on for Heyer--I have a total flaccid, pass-the-Viagra softie for Wade. This would be a good week to try things, given the opponent. I bet you are right, Matty, but I think Wade is rapidly showing why he was CUT BY THE TEXANS!

Re: Is Wade the problem? Thinking about the O-line
 

I think there must be a universal maxim that the more familiar you are with the names of your O-linemen, the worse shape your team is in.

It chills one to the bone to think that we're actually using the names Wade, Fabini, DeMulling, and Heyer in conversation.

Re: Is Wade the problem? Thinking about the O-line
 

Um, Jacoby, May, Grimm, Bostic, Lachey?

It's when they are 2nd/3rd stringers that it's worrisome.

Re: Is Wade the problem? Thinking about the O-line
 

[quote=JWsleep;370919]Um, Jacoby, May, Grimm, Bostic, Lachey?

It's when they are 2nd/3rd stringers that it's worrisome.[/quote]

See, I knew someone would say that :) That's an edge case, since we had a freaking nicknamed O-Line back in those days :)

Now, not so much. Or at least the nickname in question would probably be something Madden couldn't say on the air.

Re: Is Wade the problem? Thinking about the O-line
 

[quote=Paintrain;370896]Injuries are the problem.. Wade was AWFUL yesterday but hasn't looked bad the rest of the games he's played.. I think missing Thomas has the biggest impact on the OL then Jansen. I thought Jansen was definitely on the downside of his career so it wasn't really a huge dropoff..[/quote]

Good Post. Thomas is a leader and makes people around him play better. He made wade better against Philly and the Saints (last year). He is the gel to the line and plays with a nasty streak. I just hope he gets back for the stretch run. I honestly think we will be in the playoffs so getting him back could be HUGE.

Don't really agree with the Jansen quote though. I still think he is in the better half of tackles in this league, not as good as he once was though.

Re: Is Wade the problem? Thinking about the O-line
 

Wade has also been battling shoulder and groin problems all year so that has probably hurt his effectiveness.

Re: Is Wade the problem? Thinking about the O-line
 

Janson was a sure thing....in that he didnt let guys run through untouched and blind side our QB

Re: Is Wade the problem? Thinking about the O-line
 

[quote=Mattyk72;370894]Wade is still our best option.

I know some people out there have a hard-on for Heyer, but he's still a liability and needs help on his side way too often.

I say leave the lineup alone and hope they can pull it together. They need to keep fighting and find some consistency. Juggling the lineup again is not going to help us find that consistency.[/quote]Wade can't be the best option. If Heyer can't outplay him, we might as well get someone off the street who can.

Heyer is still very raw, but we need him now I think, at least for the rest of this season.

Fabini has been pretty good in pass pro, but generally guys who move from tackle to guard aren't as good in the run game as guards traditionally are. This strikes me as his big issue.

Re: Is Wade the problem? Thinking about the O-line
 

Is Demulling converted tackle, or a natural guard? That might be something to think about in the run game. But my guess is that only one change should be made at a time. Still, given the Jets, this is not a bad test case. It is on the road, but still easier than against Philly's D or in Dallas. Was Heyer active yesterday?

Re: Is Wade the problem? Thinking about the O-line
 

[quote=JWsleep;370950]Is Demulling converted tackle, or a natural guard? That might be something to think about in the run game. But my guess is that only one change should be made at a time. Still, given the Jets, this is not a bad test case. It is on the road, but still easier than against Philly's D or in Dallas. Was Heyer active yesterday?[/quote]He's a natural guard.

He's also got a reputation that's closer to Pucillo than Wade or Fabini.

Re: Is Wade the problem? Thinking about the O-line
 

[QUOTE=GTripp0012;370953]He's a natural guard.

He's also got a reputation that's closer to Pucillo than Wade or Fabini.[/QUOTE]

Does that mean he's good? I wasn't exactly blown away by Puccillo the other week...

Re: Is Wade the problem? Thinking about the O-line
 

[quote=JWsleep;370958]Does that mean he's good? I wasn't exactly blown away by Puccillo the other week...[/quote]I don't know if he's good or not, but I don't think Fabini is doing a particularly bad job. I'm not sure if DeMulling is an improvement.

Re: Is Wade the problem? Thinking about the O-line
 

I agree that Wade is the best option. Unfortunately he is the best of some pretty bad options at this point. I haven't gone back and watched the game again, and I do not plan to do so ever, but the one that sticks out to me is one of Vrabel's three sacks. Wade stepped out to pick up the blitz from Vrabel, Vrabel stutter stepped, then Wade saw pressure flashing from the inside linebacker and stepped down to pick him up. Unfortunately the inside backer was the back's responsibility and Portis stepped up to take him. When Wade stepped down to try to pick up a man that was not his responsibility that left the corner up to Vrabel who proceeded to hit Campbell and jar the ball loose (Jason really has to secure the ball back there, feel pressure and get rid of it, so part of the fumble is on him). Still, I can maybe understand a physical error given the fact that the Skins have been relegated to playing back-ups and because Wade has been playing hurt. However, on that play at least, the problem was a mental error on Wade's part and I just cannot excuse that.

Having said that, I don't think Heyer is the answer. His technique is poor, he plays WAY too tall and gets pushed around by stronger guys. He is also prone to more mental errors (you'd think) than a veteran like Wade. The Skins need to try despartely to find some consistancy on the line. I am not very optimistic at this point that they will find it, but putting Heyer in there is not the answer. In a similar vein, as bad as Fabini has been I don't know that you can expect DeMulling to do any better. We don't see this guy in practice, so what is it that gives you confidence that he has the talent to improve the line? I can only believe that there was a reason this guy was available so late in the season and a reason that he was cut from the Lions. Everything I read about him in Detroit was negative and indicated he was an overpaid bust up there who couldn't even crack the starting lineup in Detroit. Like I said, I don't see the practice tape so I can only trust the coaches. If he isn't in there I must believe it is because he does not make the team any better. If it is just a lateral move then you might as well keep Fabini and hope against hope that continuity will help make this line a little better in the coming weeks.

Re: Is Wade the problem? Thinking about the O-line
 

I was having this discussion w/ Freddy last week and he made a very good point... DeMulling was on the street 3 weeks into the season... [B]not a starting caliber guy[/B]. Any of you who have been redskins fans for a long time and know the coaching staff (even if you dont like the coaching staff now) KNOW that Joe Bugel is going to put his best 5 guys out there every week. Fabini is a liability but if DeMulling was better Buges would have put him in by now, same w/ Wade and Heyer.

Re: Is Wade the problem? Thinking about the O-line
 

When Wade got nicked up in the pack game, Buges went to Heyer--wonder if he'd have stayed with him against zona if Heyer didn't get hurt?

I agree that DeMulling is not what we need, but I am curious. It's Wade that's been stinking up the joint, IMO.

Re: Is Wade the problem? Thinking about the O-line
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;370932]Wade has also been battling shoulder and groin problems all year so that has probably hurt his effectiveness.[/QUOTE]

Now, on the plays that I've seen, it hasn't been injuries that were the problem with Wade. Twice in two different games I've watched Wade while someone goes right past him, and he's looking in to help whoever the right guard is blocking. Yesterday, when Vrabel ran directly around him, Wade didn't even [I]look[/I] at him, and his reaction was clearly that of someone who missed an obvious assignment.

Could be a scheming problem, or it could be just another glaring example of the differences between Todd Wade and Jon Jansen.

Re: Is Wade the problem? Thinking about the O-line
 

Can't bring in a guy to different role right away and expect him to be an All Pro. The solution to our serious problem is simply to add quality depth at O line next season. We are only at the halfway point and to think we will be injury free from here on in is almost fantasy. Never have seen so many injuries on a Skins squad before or in the NFL in general.

Re: Is Wade the problem? Thinking about the O-line
 

But Wade has been getting WORSE out there (or is it just me?), when he should be getting more comfortable. And Jansen is getting older and has missed now 2 seasons of JG's second tenure. We need more than depth, most likely.

Re: Is Wade the problem? Thinking about the O-line
 

Is it me, or does anyone else think Wade is an emotionless player? I understand you don't typically see offensive lineman getting fired up on a regular basis. But when you hear interviews with guys like Thomas, Samuels, Rabach, and Kendall, it's pretty easy to tell they have a punch-you-in-the-mouth mean streak. Wade seems just kinda blah to me. And he doesn't seem too tough on the field either. Remember how relieved a bunch of us were when we resigned him in the offseason? Ugh. Not that we'd be better off without him, but he's sure as hell not killin' it for us.

Re: Is Wade the problem? Thinking about the O-line
 

man all the people who were bitching about Jansen the last couple of years sure do miss him now huh? man how times have changed.

Re: Is Wade the problem? Thinking about the O-line
 

[QUOTE=Paintrain;370896]Injuries are the problem.. Wade was AWFUL yesterday but hasn't looked bad the rest of the games he's played.. [/QUOTE]

Um. Wade got ABUSED by Kampman @ Green Bay. Wade is AWFUL. Jansen on crutches would be better.

Re: Is Wade the problem? Thinking about the O-line
 

[QUOTE=Luxorreb;371213]Um. Wade got ABUSED by Kampman @ Green Bay. Wade is AWFUL. Jansen on crutches would be better.[/QUOTE]

Wonder if the coaches will make the move here. I know they are very into Heyer, and they can't have missed Wade's poor play, with their franchise QB getting blind-sided on a number of plays where wade was in straight one-on-one pass coverage (allegedly his strong point!)--it happened against AZ as well. I'm not saying Heyer is some great upgrade, but I think Wade is hurting us badly.

And I agree about the attitude thing, though that's not a big point. They say he prepares well, but out on the field, he seems to lose focus at killer times.

Re: Is Wade the problem? Thinking about the O-line
 

wade is alright not great. Kampman abuses everybody that guys good. Honestly i remember seller getting beat a bunch on some of those plays.
he is a great run blocker but terrible pass blocker. Can anyone confirm how many plays were Wades fault?

Re: Is Wade the problem? Thinking about the O-line
 

Sack in zona game. At least one against NE. Have to go back and check, I guess.

But Wade is NOT a great run blocker--that's actually what's weakest about, I thought.

Re: Is Wade the problem? Thinking about the O-line
 

Regardless of whether Wade is the ideal back-up right now, we have to stick with him, otherwise we would be starting from scratch. O-lineman need time to develop chemistry, and replacing Wade with Heyer puts us back at square one, and I doubt that Heyer is so much better than Wade as to neutralize the learning curve (if he is even better at all).

A little bit more time together, under Bugel's tutelage, and this patch job line will begin to at least be functional (as it has already shown the ability to be against lesser opponents). The next few games are very winnable as long as we don't make too many mistakes. So we weather the storm, then invite Randy T. back in December for the stretch run.

Re: Is Wade the problem? Thinking about the O-line
 

[quote=JWsleep;370881]The last few games, it seems to me Wade has made several very much unforced errors in pass pro. And it's not like he's done anything much in the run game. Yes, one of the Vrabl sacks was on the Portis/Sellers whiff. But at least one of the others was just Wade standing there like a statue as Vrabl ran by and smacked our young QB.

I would like to see Heyer (if he's healthy, of course) out there. Yes, he's got liabilities, but I think he's got more upside. Further, it may be time to give DeMulling a try--at least to see how he works with the line. I know that the o-line is in flux and messing with it more may be trouble, but IMO it's just not working now. And a Gibbs/Saunders O without a good line is just what we're seeing--poo.

Thoughts?[/quote]

Wade is what he is. He's not a full time starter. Look at his whole NFL career. He gets hurt alot and isn't durable and when he does play he isn't all that good. He is a stop gap player that you can get by with for a game or two. We put way to much stock in his one start last year against TB.

Re: Is Wade the problem? Thinking about the O-line
 

Hail from Houston.

When did you move outta Brooklyn?

Re: Is Wade the problem? Thinking about the O-line
 

that why he was cut by miami and houston. He just a back up. Maybe we should start drafting some olinemen next year

Re: Is Wade the problem? Thinking about the O-line
 

[quote=skinsfan69;371456]Wade is what he is. He's not a full time starter. Look at his whole NFL career. He gets hurt alot and isn't durable and when he does play he isn't all that good. He is a stop gap player that you can get by with for a game or two. We put way to much stock in his one start last year against TB.[/quote]

New Orleans. He started against New Orleans.

Wade is awful and Fabini plays like his shoestrings were tied together while he wasn't looking. When you have two worthless loads like that next to each other, their mistakes are compounded. As long as they are in the game, we will struggle offensively which means we will struggle to win games. It's such a shame that Randy Thomas got hurt. I think we could have survived Wade/Heyer at tackle with him doing what he does at Guard.

Re: Is Wade the problem? Thinking about the O-line
 

the whole oline stinks not just wade. That happens when you dont invest draft picks in the oline or let them leave during FA. These guys we brought in were all cut by someone else. or sign by FA, this line in old and hurt all the time.

Re: Is Wade the problem? Thinking about the O-line
 

[QUOTE=STPainmaker;371550]Hail from Houston.

When did you move outta Brooklyn?[/QUOTE]

Got a job here at the U of H. Started in September. My wife is an artist working in NYC, so we'll be splitting some time back and forth, Brooklyn mainly in the summer, the rest in Houston.

Fortunately, people who like the Texans tend to dislike the Cowroids, so it's not a bad town. Plus, I live near a pretty awesome sports bar--stumbling distance from my house.