Mike Williams Cut by Raiders
 

[url=http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d803c416c&template=without-video&confirm=true]Raiders waive struggling WR Williams[/url]

I'm in no way suggesting that we pick this guy up. But for all those that wanted him in 05, now's our chance!

Re: Mike Williams Cut by Raiders
 

6'5", 230 pounds of underachiever who needs a second chance (or is that third chance?) Can he possibly be any worse than Lloyd?

It's easy to write the dude off but the Lions squad he was a part of was not very good at all, and when the Faiders are your "second chance", well...that's not saying much. I have to admit I'm not totally familiar with his struggles, but he didn't go out like Charles Rogers, so there might be something there. And he can't be that expensive.

I would not be at all surprised to see a team like New England who can afford to roll the dice on a dirt-cheap FA, sign a guy like Williams and have him thrive.

Re: Mike Williams Cut by Raiders
 

Absolute trash(Williams not you)

Re: Mike Williams Cut by Raiders
 

[quote=hooskins;371873]Absolute trash(Williams not you)[/quote]

As in, locker room poison? Or is it a case of Westbrookitis (chronic lack of heart)?

Re: Mike Williams Cut by Raiders
 

Well Randy Moss was let go by the Raiders for not having any heart. Look at him now!

Re: Mike Williams Cut by Raiders
 

If Kiffin (who coached MW at USC) is letting him go, I can't imagine that MW has anything to offer.

Re: Mike Williams Cut by Raiders
 

He's garbage.

Re: Mike Williams Cut by Raiders
 

[quote=Mattyk72;371884]He's garbage.[/quote]

Anybody want to expound on this a little more? I don't understand the vitriol against this guy, other than the obvious "he was an overpaid first round bust".

Like I said, I didn't see any string of incidents with the law, or questions about his health. He's still extremely young, and hasn't ever played for a good pro team.

He may turn out to be a total bust who never catches on (a la Taylor Jacobs) but with the physical attributes the guy has, I don't see who wouldn't want to take a chance on the dude unless he is absolutely a headcase.

Re: Mike Williams Cut by Raiders
 

[quote=dgack;371887]Anybody want to expound on this a little more? I don't understand the vitriol against this guy, other than the obvious "[B]he was an overpaid first round bust[/B]".

Like I said, I didn't see any string of incidents with the law, or questions about his health. He's still extremely young, and hasn't ever played for a good pro team.

He may turn out to be a total bust who never catches on (a la Taylor Jacobs) but with the physical attributes the guy has, I don't see who wouldn't want to take a chance on the dude unless he is absolutely a headcase.[/quote]

That's pretty much what makes him garbage.

Re: Mike Williams Cut by Raiders
 

[QUOTE=dgack;371887]Anybody want to expound on this a little more? I don't understand the vitriol against this guy, other than the obvious "he was an overpaid first round bust".

Like I said, I didn't see any string of incidents with the law, or questions about his health. He's still extremely young, and hasn't ever played for a good pro team.

He may turn out to be a total bust who never catches on (a la Taylor Jacobs) but with the physical attributes the guy has, I don't see who wouldn't want to take a chance on the dude unless he is absolutely a headcase.[/QUOTE]

He hasn't had any run-ins the law and he has been relatively injury-free. However, in Detroit, he had weight problems, didn't have a solid work ethic, and didn't play [I]or[/I] practice well. I don't know how he was received in Oakland, but they obviously gave up on the kid. That Kiffin gave up on him says a lot IMO.

I don't think anyone hates the kid, we just think he's overpaid and dumb, lazy, and failing to take advantage of the opportunities afforded to him.

Re: Mike Williams Cut by Raiders
 

Hey, look, Green Bay is letting Koren "K-Drop" Robinson back on the roster, and that guy's an avowed alcoholic. So Williams has a taste for the buffet? Sign him to a min contract and put performance incentives in there.

Why hate on a guy just because Detroit and Chokeland paid him too much? If we can get him for peanuts and he realizes he's got a chance to play for a quality organization, so much the better. I'd think that anybody we sign at WR from now on would realize that there are legitimate opportunities to become a starting NFL WR3...

Re: Mike Williams Cut by Raiders
 

[quote=dgack;371906]Hey, look, Green Bay is letting Koren "K-Drop" Robinson back on the roster, and that guy's an avowed alcoholic. So Williams has a taste for the buffet? Sign him to a min contract and put performance incentives in there.

Why hate on a guy just because Detroit and Chokeland paid him too much? If we can get him for peanuts and he realizes he's got a chance to play for a quality organization, so much the better. I'd think that anybody we sign at WR from now on would realize that there are legitimate opportunities to become a starting NFL WR3...[/quote]

There's a big difference you're failing to realize.

Robinson has produced on the field, Williams has not.

Guys who produce will keep getting chances while guys that don't produce will not.

Re: Mike Williams Cut by Raiders
 

[QUOTE=dgack;371906]Hey, look, Green Bay is letting Koren "K-Drop" Robinson back on the roster, and that guy's an avowed alcoholic. So Williams has a taste for the buffet? Sign him to a min contract and put performance incentives in there.

Why hate on a guy just because Detroit and Chokeland paid him too much? If we can get him for peanuts and he realizes he's got a chance to play for a quality organization, so much the better. I'd think that anybody we sign at WR from now on would realize that there are legitimate opportunities to become a starting NFL WR3...[/QUOTE]

I corrected a typo in my previous post; we don't hate the kid, we just don't think he'll be a good NFL wideout.

Re: Mike Williams Cut by Raiders
 

I think you take a shot on the kid if you can get him cheap. He is HUGE and could do some damage in our inept offense.

Re: Mike Williams Cut by Raiders
 

What can it hurt? Is he going to bring down the locker room morale on offense, somehow I dont think that is possible. Our #1 WR Moss has less than 300 yds through 7 games.

Re: Mike Williams Cut by Raiders
 

[quote=Stacks42;371881]Well Randy Moss was let go by the Raiders for not having any heart. Look at him now![/quote]

He's not OR never was a randy moss talent! Trashbag!

Re: Mike Williams Cut by Raiders
 

[quote=Stacks42;371918]What can it hurt? Is he going to bring down the locker room morale on offense, somehow I dont think that is possible. Our #1 WR Moss has less than 300 yds through 7 games.[/quote]

What it hurts is you have to give up a roster spot for him. Considering that WR is not a huge need vs. other spots like OL and CB, this move would be dumb. He hasn't done anything in Detroit or Oakland, so it's doubtful he would have any impact here especially coming in at the middle of the season.

Re: Mike Williams Cut by Raiders
 

Horrible, horrible idea. Who in their right mind thinks we should pick this dude up?? Are you nuts????

If you want a reason why not, um, how bout production for starters. Point blank, they guy has done squat in this league. THERE'S A REASON FOR THAT. He sucks.

Re: Mike Williams Cut by Raiders
 

He's still worth bringing in for a looksee tryout . . .

Remember, the Lions kept Redskins great Mike Bass on the practice squad for 2 years and tried to make him a receiver . . .

Re: Mike Williams Cut by Raiders
 

[quote=Schneed10;371935]Horrible, horrible idea. Who in their right mind thinks we should pick this dude up?? Are you nuts????

If you want a reason why not, um, how bout production for starters. Point blank, they guy has done squat in this league. THERE'S A REASON FOR THAT. He sucks.[/quote]

Good point, I forgot how well our #1 and #3 WR are doing here this season.

BTW, the quality of analysis and conversation in this thread is truly worthy of applause.

We spent, what, 400+ posts debating Bill Belichick's class, but a 6'5", 230 receiver with a 38" vertical once called "college football's best receiver" by the press, who's failed to catch on with two of the NFL's worst franchises is on the street, and the mere suggestion that we could get him cheap is greeted with derision and name-calling.

Seriously, applause, guys. All around. Maybe I need to stick to topics that are a little less controversial. I'll be posting in the "if we just had an O-Line, everything would be perfect" thread from now on.

[quote][B]Former USC Heisman Trophy-winning quarterback Carson Palmer:[/B] "Mike is a tremendous talent. He's real mature. He's the type of guy who makes quarterbacks look real good. I know that all I had to do was put it up there and he was going to go get it."
[/quote]

[quote][B]Former USC quarterback Matt Leinart:[/B] "He's a great, great player. Big, fast, all the things. He makes big-time, big-time plays. He's such a natural, he phenomenal. He's confident. You know he's good, he knows he's good. He's got a real presence about him."
[/quote]

Re: Mike Williams Cut by Raiders
 

[quote=skinsfan_nn;371922]He's not OR never was a randy moss talent! [B]Trashbag![/[/B]quote]

My point was.. Everyone said that R. Moss was done, he had lost a step. Well everyone was wrong. If given the right opportunity a player with great talent can excel in this league. Is there any doubt that M. Williams has talent, I doubt it. I think he lacks concentration, and motivation. With "the best coaches in the league" shouldnt we be able to get the the most out of this guy? At least a WR that is over 6 ft and under 30 wold be on our team, as a decoy if not a contributor. You can't debat the fact that beyond Moss and El, our WR is pretty mediocre.

And by the way, I hope that wasnt a personal insult.

Re: Mike Williams Cut by Raiders
 

I agree with the voice of look who he's played for! Lions are one of the most inept franchises of the past 50 years. They kept Redskin great Mike Bass on the practice squad for 2 years and tried to convert him to receiver.

Give the guy a tryout . . .

Re: Mike Williams Cut by Raiders
 

That's just CRAZY talk!

Besides, he's never done anything.

[SIZE=1][COLOR=silver]I mean, besides the 2500 yards and 30 TD's he caught in his first two years at USC, but who looks at college stats? [/COLOR][/SIZE]

Re: Mike Williams Cut by Raiders
 

What the hell happened since I last visited this thread? I think we should all chill. There's no need to get snappy with one another over this topic.

Re: Mike Williams Cut by Raiders
 

You know, we do need a physical presence and he does provide that if nothing else. It's worth a look, nothing else...

Re: Mike Williams Cut by Raiders
 

[quote=dgack;371953]That's just CRAZY talk!

Besides, he's never done anything.

[SIZE=1][COLOR=silver]I mean, besides the 2500 yards and 30 TD's he caught in his first two years at USC, but who looks at college stats? [/COLOR][/SIZE][/quote]

More importantly, who CARES about college stats? Explain exactly how those stats are relevant to a league where every CB is so fast that in order to beat him, your QB needs to get the ball out of his hands BEFORE you make your cut?

Williams is a HORRIBLE route runner. Yes he's big. Yes he has good hands. Yes, his speed is solid. But he has proven to be lazy in the NFL; his route-running has not improved one iota. Just like Brandon Lloyd, QBs simply can't count on him to be where he's supposed to be when running a route. In an Al Saunders system based on timing, Williams would be a disaster.

This isn't college. You can't simply go one-on-one like Palmer and Leinart say; you can't just toss the ball up and let him go get it, because safeties will get there. This is the NFL, where speed is paramount.

I didn't think this idea needed any serious analysis, because everybody and their brother knows that Mike Williams has been a disaster at the NFL level (coming to camp way out of shape in Detroit ring a bell??).

But anyway, there you have it, genuine thought. Now can we lock this thread down, because it has entered the realm of the retarded.

Re: Mike Williams Cut by Raiders
 

[QUOTE=SuperFan99;371938]He's still worth bringing in for a looksee tryout . . .

Remember, the Lions kept Redskins great Mike Bass on the practice squad for 2 years and tried to make him a receiver . . .[/QUOTE]

Was there even a practice squad back then?

Re: Mike Williams Cut by Raiders
 

You know, we do need a physical presence and he does provide that if nothing else. It's worth a look, nothing else...

Re: Mike Williams Cut by Raiders
 

he cant be much worse the Lloyd and his 2 catches

Re: Mike Williams Cut by Raiders
 

[quote=Schneed10;371961]More importantly, who CARES about college stats? Explain exactly how those stats are relevant to a league where every CB is so fast that in order to beat him, your QB needs to get the ball out of his hands BEFORE you make your cut?

Williams is a HORRIBLE route runner. Yes he's big. Yes he has good hands. Yes, his speed is solid. But he has proven to be lazy in the NFL; his route-running has not improved one iota. Just like Brandon Lloyd, QBs simply can't count on him to be where he's supposed to be when running a route. In an Al Saunders system based on timing, Williams would be a disaster.
[/quote]

This is a good argument, because our "burners" and precise route runners are currently rocking the house in the Al Saunders system based on timing.


[quote=Schneed10;371961]
This isn't college. You can't simply go one-on-one like Palmer and Leinart say; you can't just toss the ball up and let him go get it, because safeties will get there. This is the NFL, where speed is paramount.
[/quote]

Another good argument. It's true that the small, fast receiver has really taken the NFL by storm and tall, strong receivers don't succeed at hauling down jump balls anymore.


[quote=Schneed10;371961]
I didn't think this idea needed any serious analysis, because everybody and their brother knows that Mike Williams has been a disaster at the NFL level (coming to camp way out of shape in Detroit ring a bell??).
[/quote]

Agreed. Detroit and Oakland have some of the better player development records in the league and they are the finer examples of barometers of whether someone can make it in the NFL or not.


[quote=Schneed10;371961]
But anyway, there you have it, genuine thought. Now can we lock this thread down, because it has entered the realm of the retarded.[/quote]

I'm truly sorry it didn't meet your expectations. All of us who posted in it will try harder next time to be better fans.

Re: Mike Williams Cut by Raiders
 

[quote=Schneed10;371961]More importantly, who CARES about college stats? Explain exactly how those stats are relevant to a league where every CB is so fast that in order to beat him, your QB needs to get the ball out of his hands BEFORE you make your cut?

Williams is a HORRIBLE route runner. Yes he's big. Yes he has good hands. Yes, his speed is solid. But he has proven to be lazy in the NFL; his route-running has not improved one iota. Just like Brandon Lloyd, QBs simply can't count on him to be where he's supposed to be when running a route. In an Al Saunders system based on timing, Williams would be a disaster.

This isn't college. You can't simply go one-on-one like Palmer and Leinart say; you can't just toss the ball up and let him go get it, because safeties will get there. This is the NFL, where speed is paramount.

I didn't think this idea needed any serious analysis, because everybody and their brother knows that Mike Williams has been a disaster at the NFL level (coming to camp way out of shape in Detroit ring a bell??).

But anyway, there you have it, genuine thought. Now can we lock this thread down, because it has entered the realm of the retarded.[/quote]
I agree with most of what you sadi except that you just can't throw the ball up and let him go get it because this is the NFL. I see this done in the NFL every week. Not saying him but that it is done all the time.

Re: Mike Williams Cut by Raiders
 

Mike Williams puts the I in immature. He is not a man. He is mentally stunted man child.

Re: Mike Williams Cut by Raiders
 

Again, chill out peeps.

Re: Mike Williams Cut by Raiders
 

LOL I'm sorry but this is getting retarded. Call me in 3 years when this guy is out of football completely.

Re: Mike Williams Cut by Raiders
 

[quote=dgack;371968]This is a good argument, because our "burners" and precise route runners are currently rocking the house in the Al Saunders system based on timing..[/quote]

Lately, this has more to do with pressure in Campbell's face because of our terrible patchwork offensive line.

[quote=dgack;371968]Another good argument. It's true that the small, fast receiver has really taken the NFL by storm and tall, strong receivers don't succeed at hauling down jump balls anymore.[/quote]

Size doesn't matter. Steve Smith is doing quite well for himself. Randle-El was having a tremendous season before Rabach got hurt and we became vulnerable up the middle to pressure.

[quote=dgack;371968]Agreed. Detroit and Oakland have some of the better player development records in the league and they are the finer examples of barometers of whether someone can make it in the NFL or not.[/quote]

I don't understand how taking the trash cast off from two of the crappier teams in the league makes us better. I know there are stories of guys getting cut from one team, and then catching on with another and tearing it up. But honestly, how often does that happen? For every guy who makes it big with a change of scenery, how many simply get cut and never picked up again? Does the fact that he's a former first rounder change the probability that he'll be any good for us? I don't think so.

Re: Mike Williams Cut by Raiders
 

"Cheap and available." Anyone remember the failed Redskins coach for whom that quote applied?

In any event, although I have real doubts about whether MW can do anything to help, we could likely get him for a song and how could it hurt to get him in the mix. NONE OF OUR WRs HAS A TD THIS SEASON! Has that ever happened through 7 games? A big WR will help take the pressure of Campbell because it gives him an option to throw a pass and let a WR go get it -- something we cannot do with the current WR roster of small but speedy guys.

Here are our current reception stats -- a little hard to read, but Cooley has 5 TD catches and Sellers has 1; no one else has one:

Ladell Betts WAS RB 9 84 9.3 12.0 28 0 1 0 4 44.4 0
Chris Cooley WAS TE 23 219 9.5 31.3 28 5 1 0 15 65.2 1
Brandon Lloyd WAS WR 2 14 7.0 2.0 9 0 0 0 0 0.0 0
Keenan McCardell WAS WR 4 69 17.3 23.0 21 0 2 0 3 75.0 0
Santana Moss WAS WR 20 248 12.4 41.3 49 0 2 2 12 60.0 0
Clinton Portis WAS RB 19 156 8.2 22.3 25 0 3 0 9 47.4 0
Antwaan Randle El WAS WR 26 465 17.9 66.4 54 0 7 2 20 76.9 1
Mike Sellers WAS FB 10 61 6.1 8.7 24 1 1 0 3 30.0 1
James Thrash WAS WR 3 16 5.3 2.3 7 0 0 0 0 0.0 0
Todd Yoder WAS TE 5 46 9.2 6.6 18 0 0 0 2 40.0 0

Re: Mike Williams Cut by Raiders
 

[quote=Mattyk72;371975]LOL I'm sorry but this is getting retarded. Call me in 3 years when this guy is out of football completely.[/quote]

Entirely possible. Call me next year when LLoyd is making D-grade hip-hop videos. I don't understand what's so retarded about signing a guy like Williams for pocket change. Hell, sign him to the practice squad.

Obviously if the dude still thinks he's worth 1st round pick money, it doesn't make sense. But whatever, I was honestly asking a legit question more than anything else and a bunch of people apparently took offense to that.

I'm sure you guys don't necessarily intend it, but there is a really thick air of arrogance that comes down hard on people who post things that are considered "retarded" by whoever sets the conversation bar that week.

Hey, it's your site, do as you like. But speaking frankly and personally, some of the reactions to threads like this make me not want to participate as much, because it's just arbitrary and wrong.

But again, it's your house, you set the rules.

Re: Mike Williams Cut by Raiders
 

I disagree strongly that the Tall WR is not as important now with the emergence of the smaller WRs...I think its the direct opposite. The tall WR's are harder to come by and the teams that do have good tall ones are using the hell out them. Reggie Wayne, Randy Moss, TO and Crayton, and Plaxico Burress are on 4 of the top 5 teams in the NFL right now and they are all pretty dominant. In addition if u look at the receiving leaders in the NFL right now 14 out of 15 are taller than 6 feet and most are well over that mark
1. Randy Moss - [B]6'4"[/B]
2. Chad Johnson - [B]6'1" with excellent leaping ability[/B]
3. Braylon Edwards - [B]6'3"[/B]
4. Reggie Wayne - [B]6'2"[/B]
5. Larry Fitzgerald - [B]6'3"[/B]
6. Antonio Gates - [B]6'4"[/B]
7. TJ Housh - [B]6'1"[/B]
[I]8. Wes Welker - 5'9"[/I]
9. Jerricho Cotchery - 6'
10. Kevin Curtis - 6'
11. Torry Holt - 6'
12. Plaxico burress - [B]6'5"[/B]
13. Joey Galloway - 6'
14. Terrell Owens - [B]6'3"[/B]
15. Jason Witten - [B]6'5"[/B]


Im not saying that Williams should be signed or would make any difference even if he was, but it would be nice to have a big body to throw to in goal line situations and since JC throws [I]"such a nice long ball".[/I]

Re: Mike Williams Cut by Raiders
 

6 feet 5 inches ! Average corner is what about 6 foot ? You throw the ball higher to that receiver he has a better chance of coming down with it. Now of course you have to be able to catch, I'm sure the man hasn't forgotten that. I say bring him in and see what happens. If he doesn't pan out so what. Hell we gave TOD PINKSTON a shot why not this guy? They could try letting Lloyd get on the field for more than 3 plays a game. As far as Williams goes, bring him in and see what happens.

Re: Mike Williams Cut by Raiders
 

[quote=dgack;371984]Entirely possible. Call me next year when LLoyd is making D-grade hio-hop videos. I don't understand what's so retarded about signing a guy like Williams for pocket change. Hell, sign him to the practice squad.

Obviously if the dude still thinks he's worth 1st round pick money, it doesn't make sense. But whatever, I was honestly asking a legit question more than anything else and a bunch of people apparently took offense to that.

I'm sure you guys don't necessarily intend it, but there is a really thick air of arrogance that comes down hard on people who post things that are considered "retarded" by whoever sets the conversation bar that week.

Hey, it's your site, do as you like. But speaking frankly and personally, some of the reactions to threads like this make me not want to participate as much, because it's just arbitrary and wrong.

But again, it's your house, you set the rules.[/quote]

Dgack, you're free to call my ideas retarded if you think they are. I think signing Williams is a horrible idea, though. That's the only reason I've jumped on you in this thread. His biggest weakness is route-running, and this is an offense based on timing, which means route-running is priority one for WRs. Unless you want Saunders and Gibbs to totally revamp their scheme, which I can't imagine would possibly be a good idea in the midst of a 4-3 season, Williams just doesn't fit with us.

Williams is also miserable on special teams. I don't like the idea of cutting one of our depth WRs. McCardell has shown he can be valuable this year, picking up a few key first downs because of his ability to run routes and find open holes in the defense. Thrash is still a special teams stalwart. It just doesn't make any sense to me, that's all.