Is Sean Taylor that good or...
 

I don't think too many people on this site would argue that Sean Taylor's absence was the difference in a game this close. Sure he's a big hitter with speed, this year he's proved he's a great center fielder, and we've known about the ball-hawking.

But rarely does one guy get 3 receiving TDs exposing the same position over and over again in the same game. With an NFL ready 6th overall pick playing the opposite safety position, that just shouldn't happen.

So my question, is Sean Taylor really that much of an unbelievable force, or is our safety depth just that miserable?

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The safety play opposite Landry gets a F grade today. Possibly an F-

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Its a combo of 3 things- two secondary starters out, no quality depth, an d no pass rush

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[quote=Stacks42;380171]Its a combo of 3 things- two secondary starters out, no quality depth, an d no pass rush[/quote]

I know Romo was sacked only once, but hurried at least a dozen times, and hit 9 or 10. That's not killing it, but not awful for pass rush.

Re: Is Sean Taylor that good or...
 

If ST was playing that game at [B]LEAST[/B] 2 of those TDs to TO dont happen and he prob. would have picked one. TO knows ST is one of the few people in the NFL that has just shut him down. TO always looks scared when ST is there, a player like Sean can shut down a TO or a Randy Moss but RD and PP just cant even hang with that caliber of player.

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[QUOTE=GMScud;380165]I don't think too many people on this site would argue that Sean Taylor's absence was the difference in a game this close. Sure he's a big hitter with speed, this year he's proved he's a great center fielder, and we've known about the ball-hawking.

But rarely does one guy get 3 receiving TDs exposing the same position over and over again in the same game. With an NFL ready 6th overall pick playing the opposite safety position, that just shouldn't happen.

[B]So my question, is Sean Taylor really that much of an unbelievable force, or is our safety depth just that miserable?[/QUOTE][/B]

No man, this isn't an either/or thing. It's both. Taylor is an unbelievable force, maybe the best safety in the game or at least tied w/ Sanders and Polemalu (how the f do you spell his name?).

And our backups to ST mostly suck... Praylow not big enough to punish a guy like TO, same w/ Fox, and Doughty (obviously) is still wet behind the ears.

That said, I think GW fucked up today! Landry should have been shifted back to FS for the whole game w/ Praylow or Doughty switching at SS. Landry is faster than both, much bigger hitter, and was best FS in college last year easy. Williams still doesn't think a rookie can handle the big show, I say he f'd up today. Landry in FS all day and TO would have been drilled on at least one of those TD's.

Re: Is Sean Taylor that good or...
 

Yes, Sean Taylor is THAT good. No, Sean Taylor cannot be replaced [neither can Fletcher-Baker].

And yes, Dallas is THAT good, too.

Williams likes Prioleau because he is versatile, can play safety and corner and be decent. Yes, he misplayed TO a couple of times.

There is a reason why Vernon Fox, Reed Douty and Prioleau are reserves and you saw it. They can handle ordinary receivers, but struggle -- like everyone else -- against the elite.

The Redskins showed a lot of "team" today. Teams leverage their strengths to overcome their weaknesses. Team Redskins almost got it done. If they play like that the rest of the season, there [I]will [/I]be a post-season.

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[quote=GMScud;380173]I know Romo was sacked only once, but hurried at least a dozen times, and hit 9 or 10. That's not killing it, but not awful for pass rush.[/quote]

I remember you mentioning this during the game thread, i believe the lack of pressure allowed those open recievers. However I also do believe Taylor is that good. If we had him for the game yesterday i garuntee you T.O. would not have had 4 touchdowns.

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It's not just the plays he would have made within the schemes they used today (and I think he could have defended the first longer one on 3rd and 13 and certainly he would have tackled Owens on the last one), it's the fact that with him they can use other schemes that might have worked better than the ones we used today.

On this topic, is anyone else fed up with the Tampa 2? I'm sick and tired of seeing Fletcher trying to run with the speedsters down the middle. It reminds me too much of Lemar Marshall who was equally unable to do the impossible. What happened to Cover 3? Why not try some Man under? Let Fletcher take the back out of the backfield or blitz or spy or anything other than cover the deep middle.

Re: Is Sean Taylor that good or...
 

Sean Taylor is just that valuable. With him in the game I could see maybe one big play to T.O. but definitely not three!

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Before we crucify GW or anyone else on the Skins D, let's remember that we held one of the most potent offenses in football to 28 points at home; not too shabby a job. Dallas has a lot of offensive threats, and the Skins were able to prevent Whitten and Jones from beating them, which is what you have to do- make their best players beat you. I'll take 28 points in Dallas anyday, especially with a significantly injured secondary.

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Sean Taylor is that good. His absence cost us the Eagles game and this game. HE IS A FLAT OUT BALLER. A huge diffenrence maker on our team and we need him with Carlos out, and all those Carlos haters out there can suck it. That guy is a baller too. We do need another young CB to replace Springs when the time comes.

Sean Taylor is awesome and let's pay that man his money.

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[quote=Master4Caster;380196]Yes, Sean Taylor is THAT good. No, Sean Taylor cannot be replaced [neither can Fletcher-Baker].

And yes, Dallas is THAT good, too.

Williams likes Prioleau because he is versatile, can play safety and corner and be decent. Yes, he misplayed TO a couple of times.

There is a reason why Vernon Fox, Reed Douty and Prioleau are reserves and you saw it. They can handle ordinary receivers, but struggle -- like everyone else -- against the elite.

The Redskins showed a lot of "team" today. Teams leverage their strengths to overcome their weaknesses. Team Redskins almost got it done. If they play like that the rest of the season, there [I]will [/I]be a post-season.[/quote]Great post. Our backups at safety are adequate most of the time, but will be exploited by elite QBs/WRs. TO and Randy Moss have NEVER had a big game against the Skins with Taylor patrolling the middle - look it up. Yes, he's that good.

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As I sat there watching TO catch those passes, all I could think of was, "this would not be happening with #21 back there."

The one thing that really got me pissed was that pathetic attempt at a tackle by Prioleau (sp?) on the sideline. I know TO has done that to a lot of people but it was pretty sad.

Oh well, time to wint 6 straight and make the playoffs!

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reed doughretys play on crayton when he tackled him before the ball got there was a prime example of how our secondary was MIA..positive notes were we did get pressure on romo he just stood in the pocket and got a few balls deep

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ST is that good, and in this close the definite difference between a win and a loss. One positive, I can't wait to see them in Landover with a healthy Sean Taylor!!!!

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Let us not forget how fortunate the Cowpukes are...THREE bad shotgun snaps all bounced right into their hands on THREE different occassions. Guys, that is just plain lucky for that kind of shit to happen THREE times and not turn the ball over.

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I'd quote myself, but I'm too lazy to track down my own post.

Taylor is spectacular. His range makes QBs fearful of even looking his way. The only way he gets thrown on is if the QB is dead sure his man is open. When Taylor is playing, there's no such thing as QBs launching one up and letting the WR make a play. Taylor even scared Brady from going deep to Randy Moss, the best leaper at WR in the league.

Our backups at safety are awful. As I've said previously, this is where Gibbs is to be blamed. When you don't have mid-round picks as a result of trading them away, you end up with crappy depth.

Great coaching job by Gibbs and company yesterday, but that player acquisition... yuck. So far we haven't traded any 2008 picks though, so that is very significant.

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Taylor is that good. He would have been the difference maker yesterday.

F... injuries!

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[quote=Schneed10;380252]I'd quote myself, but I'm too lazy to track down my own post.

Taylor is spectacular. His range makes QBs fearful of even looking his way. The only way he gets thrown on is if the QB is dead sure his man is open. When Taylor is playing, there's no such thing as QBs launching one up and letting the WR make a play. Taylor even scared Brady from going deep to Randy Moss, the best leaper at WR in the league.

Our backups at safety are awful. As I've said previously, this is where Gibbs is to be blamed. When you don't have mid-round picks as a result of trading them away, you end up with crappy depth.

Great coaching job by Gibbs and company yesterday, but that player acquisition... yuck. [B]So far we haven't traded any 2008 picks though, so that is very significant[/B].[/quote]Gibbs traded a 2007 3rd and a 2008 4th for little used TJ Duckett. In addition, if Kendall doesn't play 80% of our snaps this season, the Jets get our 2008 5th round pick. Assuming that he will stay healthy, and reaches 80%, the Jets get our 2009 4th round pick instead.

Re: Is Sean Taylor that good or...
 

[quote=Schneed10;380252]I'd quote myself, but I'm too lazy to track down my own post.

Taylor is spectacular. His range makes QBs fearful of even looking his way. The only way he gets thrown on is if the QB is dead sure his man is open. When Taylor is playing, there's no such thing as QBs launching one up and letting the WR make a play. Taylor even scared Brady from going deep to Randy Moss, the best leaper at WR in the league.

Our backups at safety are awful. As I've said previously, this is where Gibbs is to be blamed. When you don't have mid-round picks as a result of trading them away, you end up with crappy depth.

Great coaching job by Gibbs and company yesterday, but that player acquisition... yuck. So far we haven't traded any 2008 picks though, so that is very significant.[/quote]

I really don't see it as a talent issue in the secondary. We got burned due to some coverage breakdowns and because Owens is simply too much to handle unless your name is Sean Taylor.

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[quote=Mattyk72;380261]I really don't see it as a talent issue in the secondary. We got burned due to some coverage breakdowns and because Owens is simply too much to handle unless your name is Sean Taylor.[/quote]

Too much to handle would be overstating it; Owens is typically good for one TD against even good defenses. So I get what you're saying, he's going to get his. But four TDs?? A couple of which he was running free?

It definitely has a lot to do with coverage breakdowns, but isn't that on the players? Whether the mistakes are mental, or the limitations are physical, aren't the end results the same?

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You know this whole thing about are back-ups being awful and we lack depth and this and that is purely ridiculous.

The reason they're back-ups is for a reason. Sure, some teams have better depth than others, but you can't be deep and stocked at every position. In my opinion, our depth is okay. ONe thing's for sure we had Springs in there, we had Smoot in there, and we had Landry in there. Could our depth be better, sure.

Coach Gregg Williams failed miserably to adjust and completely take TO out of the game. That's really the bottom line here. Clearly Dallas saw something there at the half and made a proper adjustment, we failed to counter adjust. Also, on Doc Walkers pregame show (local program), he talked about how Williams has the safeties playing over in Anacostia (other side of town) and how the Cowboys would kill us if he had that type of game plan. Well they did just that. At some point you have to let either Witten or Crayton beat you, not TO, and not four times.

And isn't this a reoccuring theme with this defense for the past four years. We can easily go back the last four seasons, and see the same "big play" killing us in the end of the game. Truthfully, in the past, whether Sean Taylor has been back there or not, we have struggled with the long ball. It's just magnified when he's not in there. It's only been this season where they've figured out to effectively use him. So, I think this is a game where the staff need to look long and hard at what they're doing, and allow the personnel to work within that framework.

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[QUOTE=12thMan;380278]You know this whole thing about are back-ups being awful and we lack depth and this and that is purely ridiculous.

The reason they're back-ups is for a reason. Sure, some teams have better depth than others, but you can't be deep and stocked at every position. In my opinion, our depth is okay. ONe thing's for sure we had Springs in there, we had Smoot in there, and we had Landry in there. Could our depth be better, sure.

Coach Gregg Williams failed miserably to adjust and completely take TO out of the game. That's really the bottom line here. Clearly Dallas saw something there at the half and made a proper adjustment, we failed to counter adjust. Also, on Doc Walkers pregame show (local program), he talked about how Williams has the safeties playing over in Anacostia (other side of town) and how the Cowboys would kill us if he had that type of game plan. Well they did just that. At some point you have to let either Witten or Crayton beat you, not TO, and not four times.

And isn't this a reoccuring theme with this defense for the past four years. We can easily go back the last four seasons, and see the same "big play" killing us in the end of the game. Truthfully, in the past, whether Sean Taylor has been back there or not, we have struggled with the long ball. It's just magnified when he's not in there. It's only been this season where they've figured out to effectively use him. So, I think this is a game where the staff need to look long and hard at what they're doing, and allow the personnel to work within that framework.[/QUOTE]

What I don't get is, if the safeties are playing in "anacostia" why are they getting beat deep. That seems counter intuitive to me.

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Now I am not hating on the guy I can betg he is going through alot BUT one issue in the coverage of Owens was Shawn Springs... he should have been Terrells shadow but he said something post game that was very telling . In the warm ups he became emotional, this would have been the first time back to Texas Stadium since his dad has been comatose ... I know he is professional but there were times when his head was not in the game .

Those who say Williams wasn't pro-active enough in half time adgustments need to take another thing into account . If Springs wasn't 100% he would have rotated Rogers over there ...who was showing signs of becoming the physical CB we had hoped for . but no rogers... Smoot is and has never been physical he has been a tryer but hasnt the physical gifts...the only option after that is Torrence and Eubanks (not going to be pretty).

The other option is to shift the safety over to help BUT once you commit to double one guy then you leave everyone else more vunrable ...... With Taylor in he can move to the ball from centre field but Droughy (sp) and Preylow neither have the gifts physically to do that every play or the experience ...

...which is also why you wouldn't want to put Landry out there changing possitions on him ...

Now there is no black and white but the system we used worked to a degree you change things and nothing is sure to produce more positive effects but you have to agree that none of the options were great.

Another thing you should take into account with the absence of Taylor is he is a great field general directing the secondary... people are used to knowing where he is and how to fit around him . You cannot just plug and play No.37 and expect the same results .

The point I am making is yes Taylor is that good ....his absence wasnt totally to blame but it effected more than just who played FS

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[quote=Mattyk72;380255]Taylor is that good. He would have been the difference maker yesterday.

F... injuries![/quote]

Injuries are just part of the game and eveyone has them and everyone has to deal with them. TO's TD's came on bad angles and blown coverages. Part of that is coaching and part of it is the players not making the play. Would Taylor have made the difference? Maybe. Maybe not. IMO one player never makes the difference in the outcome of a football game. Taylor played against NE and didn't make a difference.

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I just find it hard to believe that Taylor would have given up 4 TDs like that. Sorry I just don't see it. Dallas attacked down the field because the knew Taylor was out and we were vulnerable. Put Taylor back there and they take a different approach to the game, period.

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Troy Aikman said during the broadcast that he had buttse...I mean, met with Jason Garrett late in the week, and that they put in one play (TO's first TD) knowing that Sean Taylor wasn't there. That says a lot that an offense would adjust their playcalling based on one individual.

With that being said, we'll never know if ST was truly the difference. We'd all like to think he was, however, everyone is susceptible to making mistakes. I'd like to think ST would have been the difference, as he's shown to be in the past...

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[quote=BDBohnzie;380362]Troy Aikman said during the broadcast that he had buttse...I mean, met with Jason Garrett late in the week, and that they put in one play (TO's first TD) knowing that Sean Taylor wasn't there. That says a lot that an offense would adjust their playcalling based on one individual.

With that being said, we'll never know if ST was truly the difference. We'd all like to think he was, however, everyone is susceptible to making mistakes. I'd like to think ST would have been the difference, as he's shown to be in the past...[/quote]

As I said, ST played against NE and they still threw the ball.

If ST plays perhaps they score a different way. We just can't say if ST played the outcome would have been different.

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[QUOTE]As I said, ST played against NE and they still threw the ball.
If ST plays perhaps they score a different way. We just can't say if ST played the outcome would have been different.[/QUOTE]

with all respect to the pats,they can kill you with any of the 3 all pro wrs they have.
dallas wrs to,crayton,and witten are nowhere nearly as good as the pats wrs are.ST was the difference in that game yesterday,if he plays no way does TO score 4 tds.

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[quote=redskinsfanatic;380429]with all respect to the pats,they can kill you with any of the 3 all pro wrs they have.
dallas wrs to,crayton,and witten are nowhere nearly as good as the pats wrs are.ST was the difference in that game yesterday,if he plays no way does TO score 4 tds.[/quote]

And the difference is the Pats didn't go down the field all day, they picked us apart with the underneath stuff. They clearly respected ST in centerfield, just as Dallas would have done yesterday if he was playing.

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we will get to see sean in december be the difference maker, i garuntee you T.O. doesnt have a post game media celebration like he did this time.

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[quote=redskinsfanatic;380429]with all respect to the pats,they can kill you with any of the 3 all pro wrs they have.
dallas wrs to,crayton,and witten are nowhere nearly as good as the pats wrs are.ST was the difference in that game yesterday,if he plays no way does TO score 4 tds.[/quote]

When have Wes Welker and Donte Stallworth been all pro's?

TO may not have scored 4 td's. But somehow I still think Dallas finds a way to win that game. With or w/out Taylor.

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Skinsfan69.. You dont think wes welker and stallworth are all pros, last year stallworth was the one killing us when he was on the eagles. And welker is one of the best slot receivers in football... all that with tom brady throwing. ANd yes, pats did not go deep that often, they would throw it in the flat to the rb for 15 yards each time. Yoiu obviously dont kno what your talkin bout

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[quote=DiehardSkin88;380536]Skinsfan69.. You dont think wes welker and stallworth are all pros, last year stallworth was the one killing us when he was on the eagles. And welker is one of the best slot receivers in football... all that with tom brady throwing. ANd yes, pats did not go deep that often, they would throw it in the flat to the rb for 15 yards each time. Yoiu obviously dont kno what your talkin bout[/quote]

I guess not.

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sean taylor is amazing....but to answer the quesiton i think its a combination of things. i think our defense that williams has created for this season has focused on taylor and landry, mostly taylor preventing the big play, i didnt see much change in the defense now that he is out, i think he expected prioleau and doughty to be able to do the same things, which they obviously cant. i put more of that on williams, give them more help back there...

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I really do think Sean Taylor is THAT good.

I also think that our safety depth is THAT bad. We have no one behind Taylor and Landry, and we really paid for it this week. You can blame the coaches all you want but the players need to be able to run the play and adjust to what the offense is running. They did neither and left TO running alone almost all day.

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I think everyone is saying that the game would TOTALLY be different if ST was in the game just because he wasn't. We will never know if is true or not.

ST is a big time player and makes people pay for catching balls in the middle. Good receivers, however, have been able to take advantage of his agressiveness. Stallwarth last year, he burned him with a hitch and go or in an out twice in one game. I think Plexice did the same thing this year (I think this year), he just stepped a side and ST totally missed him because he was running so hard.

If ST would have covered TO well, Witten would have had a career day. If not Witten then Crayton.

Maybe one or two of those touchdowns wouldn't happen, and maybe the Skins would be up near the end of the game. But then again, Dallas would have played different on D. Dallas would also not try to run the ball twice to kill the clock.

IMO, it came down to GW not doing a good job of adjusting to TO and his routs. Couple that with blown coverages and you get those easy TDs.

BTW, Big C...nice sig. I hope we beat UVA in the Commonwealth Bowl.

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No way T.O. scores 4tds if Sean Taylor was playing yesterday. It's as simple as that.

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This game does expose on thing:
Reed Doughty is not ready to be in the safety rotation. He really pissed me off.
I know GW and Gibbs have a man crush on R. Doughty, but it is time to cut our loses. The guy is a good special teamer, but that is not enough in these days of the salary cap. Everyone has to be good enough to eventually play in the starting lineup. Injuries hit every year and we can not afford to carry a guy on the roster that is a good Special teamer but can not hold down his position in the starting line up if called upon.
Doughty has been given a ton of chances and every time he gets extended playing time he gets burned.