6 Turnovers= A poorly coached team
 

Teams that are coached well dont have 6 turnovers or numerous mental errors. Gibbs thought it would be a good idea to let his players workout on thier own during the offseason, well here are the results, nagging hamstring injuries (conditioning), fumbles (can be corrected with coaching), and overall lack of contineuety (for some reason campbell and his WRs couldnt find time in the offseason to meet up and throw the ball around), clock management, offsides penalties..... the list goes on.

Re: 6 Turnovers= A poorly coached team
 

I agree that i'd like to see some more rigidity to the skins offseason schedule...I won't go as far to call them poorly coached...but many of the points you highlighted certainly need to be corrected...

Re: 6 Turnovers= A poorly coached team
 

Do we really need a new thread that duplicates topics being discussed in other threads?

Re: 6 Turnovers= A poorly coached team
 

[quote=saden1;382781]Do we really need a new thread that duplicates topics being discussed in other threads?[/quote]

If the new thread offends you, rather than complaining about the duplicity of the thread, why not let the majority rule its merit? If people don't want to comment on the topic, the thread will die out by itself...

this is not a comment to Saden per se, just a general observation...

Re: 6 Turnovers= A poorly coached team
 

I do agree that coaching comes into play today. Here's why: The team started as flat as possible and made terrible mistakes on offense. How could Gibbs & Co. NOT have had them ready to play with all that is at stake in the wild card race?

It was another game where we took off a half, only this time we took off the first half. That's coaching.

Re: 6 Turnovers= A poorly coached team
 

I disagree. gibbs wasn't on the field fumbling. I love campbell but he throws ''young qb'' ints. that's not coaching but experience. gibbs chewed them out at halftime and they responded. now that's coaching.

Re: 6 Turnovers= A poorly coached team
 

Moss stretched out for extra yards and got the ball knocked out. I don't see how that is the coaches fault. Either you want our guys to stretch out for those extra yards and risk losing the ball, or you want them to play it safe and secure the ball with both hands at the expense of extra yards. Seems funny that the "we hate conservative play" crowd has the balls to attack the players for not being conservative and going for extra yards.

Jason Campbell lost a fumble when his arm was coming forward because Samuels didn't sustain a block. Yeah, JC should know better than to expose the ball when throwing the ball. :doh:

Jason Campbell threw two ill-advised passes and got picked. On one pick JC threw to Moss' outside shoulder instead of the inside shoulder. I'm not sure how JC's inaccuracy is Gibbs' fault. The other pick took place when JC underthrew Moss. So Gibbs et al are to blame for JC not putting enough mustard on the ball?

Portis' fumbles are simply inexcusable. But, it's not as though Portis has had a fumbling problem these past few years.

I heard Gibbs is also to blame for the Titanic going down, was in on 9/11, and masterminded Katrina. People can accuse me of drinking Kool-Aid for this post, but whatever. I've got to call out idiocy when I see it.

Re: 6 Turnovers= A poorly coached team
 

How are fumbles a coaching issue???

Wow.

Re: 6 Turnovers= A poorly coached team
 

I wouldn't say it is the coaching, then the discipline. Our team is not disciplined, lets face it. We brought in Gibbs, and he brought in great players, but with no discipline. I have a hard time seeing Moss being here next year, I want him to stay, but there will be some changes. With Campbell, its just youth. It is hard to watch us lose, and I would like to see us win, but we are not a good team right now

Re: 6 Turnovers= A poorly coached team
 

I will grant you that the Moss fumble was a sort of freak thing. However, regardless of whether Samuels failed to sustain a block or not, JC does bring the ball low before delivering a pass, and he does get stripped a lot. A failure to correct a recurring problem is a coaching flaw. Gibbs allowed all the players to work out on their own this off-season, but he also allowed CP to take off the entire pre-season. The result? It took Portis 5 or 6 games into the [U][B]regular[/B][/U] season to get up to speed. If Portis does not want to play pre-season games, fine, but Gibbs better be damn sure he is going to be ready when the season starts.

Re: 6 Turnovers= A poorly coached team
 

Why are some people so reluctant to place blame where it belongs, on the players.

Why is it always the coaches fault??

Re: 6 Turnovers= A poorly coached team
 

[quote=Texanskin;382790]I disagree. gibbs wasn't on the field fumbling. I love campbell but he throws ''young qb'' ints. that's not coaching but experience. gibbs chewed them out at halftime and they responded. now that's coaching.[/quote]

Gibbs wasn't on the field throwing TDs in the Super Bowl, but we all say he won three throphies. Some of the sloppy play has to go back to coaching, or at least making sure the right players are in the game and dropping the ball like S. Moss.

Re: 6 Turnovers= A poorly coached team
 

[quote=Stacks42;382776]Teams that are coached well dont have 6 turnovers or numerous mental errors. Gibbs thought it would be a good idea to let his players workout on thier own during the offseason, well here are the results, nagging hamstring injuries (conditioning), fumbles (can be corrected with coaching), and overall lack of contineuety (for some reason campbell and his WRs couldnt find time in the offseason to meet up and throw the ball around), clock management, offsides penalties..... the list goes on.[/quote]

I have been one to rip Gibbs for clock mgt. not going for it on 4th downs and so on. But today I didn't have any issues with the coaches. 2 TO's were bad throws. One was a hard hit on Portis. How does that play into coaching? These guys are taught to hang on to the ball. Silly thread.

Re: 6 Turnovers= A poorly coached team
 

Gibbs knows how to coach. 3 Superbowls. End of story

Re: 6 Turnovers= A poorly coached team
 

[quote=Mattyk72;382797]How are fumbles a coaching issue???

Wow.[/quote]

With Campbell, I say coaching does come into play. Now that he's fumbled in several of the last games, someone needs to coach him up about holding onto the ball and feeling the pressure.

Re: 6 Turnovers= A poorly coached team
 

[quote=Mattyk72;382797]How are fumbles a coaching issue???

Wow.[/quote]
Gibbs did not instruct Moss, Portis, and Campbell to sleep with a Wilson this week. Therefore, it is Gibbs' fault...

Re: 6 Turnovers= A poorly coached team
 

[quote=Twilbert07;382805]With Campbell, I say coaching does come into play. Now that he's fumbled in several of the last games, someone needs to coach him up about holding onto the ball and feeling the pressure.[/quote]

What are you talking about???????????????????????????????
He was in the motion of throwing the ball. 100% not his fault! Jeez!

Re: 6 Turnovers= A poorly coached team
 

[quote=skinsfan69;382809]What are you talking about???????????????????????????????
He was in the motion of throwing the ball. 100% not his fault! Jeez![/quote]

I agree, if anything you have to blame the lack of protection.

Re: 6 Turnovers= A poorly coached team
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;382797]How are fumbles a coaching issue???

Wow.[/QUOTE]

Gibbs is not on the field making the mental mistakes, fumbling, throwing bad INTs, committing dumb penalties, giving up sacks, letting Terrel Owens run free, etc.

Great teams commit 6 turnovers a game every once in a while too - hell, look at Indy against SD last time. Certainly doesn't mean Indy is poorly coached.

However, in 3.5 years, Gibbs and Co. were supposed to turn this team into a consistent, above-average performer. That means, if Gibbs and Co. had done what they said they would do when they took over, we shouldn't see multiple turnovers, an entire half of bad play, second half collapses, dumb penalties from veterans, etc. as frequently as we do from this team. For a well coached team, these types of mistakes should be the exception rather than the rule week to week.

Any head coach not named Gibbs, and we'd be collectively calling for a firing. The expectations from Gibbs and Co. were understandably high given Gibbs' past record, but given how far short of expectations they've delivered, its appropriate to start asking these types of questions, IMO.

Re: 6 Turnovers= A poorly coached team
 

[QUOTE=Rock Your Face;382799]I will grant you that the Moss fumble was a sort of freak thing. However, regardless of whether Samuels failed to sustain a block or not, JC does bring the ball low before delivering a pass, and he does get stripped a lot. A failure to correct a recurring problem is a coaching flaw. Gibbs allowed all the players to work out on their own this off-season, but he also allowed CP to take off the entire pre-season. The result? It took Portis 5 or 6 games into the [U][B]regular[/B][/U] season to get up to speed. If Portis does not want to play pre-season games, fine, but Gibbs better be damn sure he is going to be ready when the season starts.[/QUOTE]

I seem to recall an awful lot of people getting angry with Gibbs for exposing Portis to injury in the preseason and then watching Portis go down with a shoulder injury. So Gibbs is dumb for using Portis in the preseason and getting him injured AND for not using him in the preseason?

Re: 6 Turnovers= A poorly coached team
 

Honestly, the past few weeks I can't point the finger at the coaches and say that they haven't done their jobs. The offense has opened up and is really moving the ball well, we're just not finishing off drives. That's what happens when you have a young QB. You have to have a realistic amount of patience, many here simply do not.

Re: 6 Turnovers= A poorly coached team
 

[quote=Mattyk72;382800]Why are some people so reluctant to place blame where it belongs, on the players.

Why is it always the coaches fault??[/quote]


Its the coaches job to correct problems, Didnt coughlin cure T. Barbers fumbling problem? Doing his job as a coach

Re: 6 Turnovers= A poorly coached team
 

[QUOTE=Stacks42;382820]Its the coaches job to correct problems, Didnt coughlin cure T. Barbers fumbling problem? Doing his job as a coach[/QUOTE]

He sure hasn't been able to cure Eli's INT problem. It's not like Moss and Portis are chronic fumblers like Barber was. These things happen and today they happened in spades.

Look at each of the turnovers and then talk about the coaches being accountable.

Re: 6 Turnovers= A poorly coached team
 

[quote=Stacks42;382820]Its the coaches job to correct problems, Didnt coughlin cure T. Barbers fumbling problem? Doing his job as a coach[/quote]

How do you correct Portis taking a hard shot from behind or Moss getting stripped while reaching out for extra yards??

It's the players job to hang on to the damn football.

Re: 6 Turnovers= A poorly coached team
 

[quote=skinsfan69;382809]What are you talking about???????????????????????????????
He was in the motion of throwing the ball. 100% not his fault! Jeez![/quote]

I'm talking about feeling the pressure and stepping up. I know the O line is in shambles, but these fumbles have got to stop.

Re: 6 Turnovers= A poorly coached team
 

I think a poorly coached team would have rolled over and died after iving up the ball 4 times in just over a quarter of play. We fans of the Washington Redskins need to adopt the motto: "Sh*t happens, deal with it".

If there is one thing I'm not sure about is the clubhouse off-camera mentality. I want to know if these guys, all of them, give a damn about winning every time they step foot on that field? I also want to know if they play with any sort of worry for their own jobs? You can't turn on and off Heart. You can get yourself motivated if you feel it necessary but playing with heart is there with you always. We'll see how many of these players have it these next 5 games.

Re: 6 Turnovers= A poorly coached team
 

What bothers us so much about Gibbs is the very thing that players love about him--that he rarely rants and raves or goes off on them in public. Therefore, he sets himself up to the receive heat from fans and media. Unfortunately, he has hitched his support behind players that frankly don't ante up to Gibbs and honor his nobel management approach.

They ask for fat contracts, ask to train at their homes, ask for soft practices during training camp, ask for no PT during preseason. All of which is granted. And then they let him down. So is that poor coaching or poor management? I think Gibbs' could not have prevented those turnovers by "coaching the players up". I don't believe he coaches much now anyway--it mostly the coordinators and assistants, IMO.

Today-six turnovers were not a symptom of poor coaching. However, it does not surprise many to see this effort given the indolent management culture that pervades Redskin Park.

Re: 6 Turnovers= A poorly coached team
 

[QUOTE=hurrykaine;382813]Gibbs is not on the field making the mental mistakes, fumbling, throwing bad INTs, committing dumb penalties, giving up sacks, letting Terrel Owens run free, etc.

Great teams commit 6 turnovers a game every once in a while too - hell, look at Indy against SD last time. Certainly doesn't mean Indy is poorly coached.

However, in 3.5 years, Gibbs and Co. were supposed to turn this team into a consistent, above-average performer. That means, if Gibbs and Co. had done what they said they would do when they took over, we shouldn't see multiple turnovers, an entire half of bad play, second half collapses, dumb penalties from veterans, etc. as frequently as we do from this team. For a well coached team, these types of mistakes should be the exception rather than the rule week to week.

Any head coach not named Gibbs, and we'd be collectively calling for a firing. The expectations from Gibbs and Co. were understandably high given Gibbs' past record, but given how far short of expectations they've delivered, its appropriate to start asking these types of questions, IMO.[/QUOTE]

Hmm, interesting points. I kind of agree with you on the calls for Gibbs' head, but I don't see any good of changing coaches when we've made so much progress.

As for him failing to reach expectations, I think the problem is that the expectations have been too high to start. Since 2000 we've had four times more losing seasons than winning seasons (4-1, with two 8-8 campaigns). So what expectations, that he'd ride in town, sprinkle some Gibbs dust on the Skins and we'd go back to 1991? I'm disappointed in what the Skins are doing this year, but these are close games we're losing. While we're learning to win these close games we will lose some too.

Re: 6 Turnovers= A poorly coached team
 

[QUOTE=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;382791]Moss stretched out for extra yards and got the ball knocked out. I don't see how that is the coaches fault. Either you want our guys to stretch out for those extra yards and risk losing the ball, or you want them to play it safe and secure the ball with both hands at the expense of extra yards. Seems funny that the "we hate conservative play" crowd has the balls to attack the players for not being conservative and going for extra yards.

Jason Campbell lost a fumble when his arm was coming forward because Samuels didn't sustain a block. Yeah, JC should know better than to expose the ball when throwing the ball. :doh:

Jason Campbell threw two ill-advised passes and got picked. On one pick JC threw to Moss' outside shoulder instead of the inside shoulder. I'm not sure how JC's inaccuracy is Gibbs' fault. The other pick took place when JC underthrew Moss. So Gibbs et al are to blame for JC not putting enough mustard on the ball?

Portis' fumbles are simply inexcusable. But, it's not as though Portis has had a fumbling problem these past few years.

I heard Gibbs is also to blame for the Titanic going down, was in on 9/11, and masterminded Katrina. People can accuse me of drinking Kool-Aid for this post, but whatever. I've got to call out idiocy when I see it.[/QUOTE]

If you are going to continue to defend Joe Gibbs and company ask yourself why the Redskins have nothing to show for his 4 years? They are now in last place in year 4, in years 1 & 2 they also finished in last place, in a 4 team division to finish in last twice and a possible 3rd time in a few weeks, so who's fault?

I want to know WHO you blame for this 4 years if not the coaching. It may not seem it but it took me a long to to blame Gibbs, I am forever grateful for the joy he brought me in the past, but he is bringing me misery now.

Re: 6 Turnovers= A poorly coached team
 

[QUOTE=skins1973;382843]If you are going to continue to defend Joe Gibbs and company ask yourself why the Redskins have nothing to show for his 4 years? They are now in last place in year 4, in years 1 & 2 they also finished in last place, in a 4 team division to finish in last twice and a possible 3rd time in a few weeks, so who's fault?

I want to know WHO you blame for this 4 years if not the coaching. It may not seem it but it took me a long to to blame Gibbs, I am forever grateful for the joy he brought me in the past, but he is bringing me misery now.[/QUOTE]

2004 and 2006 were definitely ugly, there's no question about that, but how about the 2005 playoff win? And you've written off 2007 (typical for a Redskins fan) as though it's over.

I have always believed that this is a QB-driven league. We haven't had a QB since Gibbs I. We haven't done well for 2 or more years in a row since Gibbs I. We now have a promising, if inconsistent, QB under center. We have shown promise and inconsistency this year. Get my drift?

Re: 6 Turnovers= A poorly coached team
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;382925]2004 and 2006 were definitely ugly, there's no question about that, but how about the 2005 playoff win? And you've written off 2007 (typical for a Redskins fan) as though it's over.

I have always believed that this is a QB-driven league. We haven't had a QB since Gibbs I. We haven't done well for 2 or more years in a row since Gibbs I. We now have a promising, if inconsistent, QB under center. We have shown promise and inconsistency this year. Get my drift?[/quote]

I think it's a good point that a team typically goes as far as the QB can take them. Right now our season is a reflection of our QB play. Up and down. When JC takes the next step, so will the team.

Re: 6 Turnovers= A poorly coached team
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;382800]Why are some people so reluctant to place blame where it belongs, on the players.

Why is it always the coaches fault??[/QUOTE]

This thread is predicated on a weak argument. But it's not Stack's fault, it's yours Matty. As the head ego you need to correct these mental lapses in poor threads. ;)

Re: 6 Turnovers= A poorly coached team
 

[quote=SmootSmack;382957]This thread is predicated on a weak argument. But it's not Stack's fault, it's yours Matty. As the head ego you need to correct these mental lapses in poor threads. ;)[/quote]

LOL hey it's your fault too

Re: 6 Turnovers= A poorly coached team
 

Now that it's all hip...I want some blame for this thread also!

But seriously, the title of this thread is "6 Turnovers= A poorly coached team". And that's just never, ever, necessarily true regardless of the circumstances.

Re: 6 Turnovers= A poorly coached team
 

[quote=GTripp0012;382961]Now that it's all hip...I want some blame for this thread also!

But seriously, the title of this thread is "6 Turnovers= A poorly coached team". And that's just never, ever, necessarily true regardless of the circumstances.[/quote]

I just laughed and shook my head when I saw this thread title.

After the game I was thinking ok, outside of the decision to go for it on 4th and short there should be no major gripes with the coaching today. The turnovers are all on the players, and then bingo we have this thread. :doh:

Re: 6 Turnovers= A poorly coached team
 

[quote=Mattyk72;382963]I just laughed and shook my head when I saw this thread title.

After the game I was thinking ok, outside of the decision to go for it on 4th and short there should be no major gripes with the coaching today. The turnovers are all on the players, and then bingo we have this thread. :doh:[/quote]Even that decision was the correct one, statistically speaking. They were backed up on their own four and consequently went 3 and out.

When you are that close to the goal line, you want to take advantage of the field position and try to punch it in. The chronic inability for this team to pick up a yard on the ground is a whole different story, and has been for the last two years. At some point, we are going to want to get that corrected.

Re: 6 Turnovers= A poorly coached team
 

[QUOTE=GTripp0012;382968]Even that decision was the correct one, statistically speaking. They were backed up on their own four and consequently went 3 and out.

When you are that close to the goal line, you want to take advantage of the field position and try to punch it in. The chronic inability for this team to pick up a yard on the ground is a whole different story, and has been for the last two years. At some point, we are going to want to get that corrected.[/QUOTE]

How much you want to bet that if we had converted a first down there, someone would have started a thread saying "Horrible Call on 4th Down...We Should Have Gone with the Bootleg for the Touchdown. Gibbs Has No Guts"

Re: 6 Turnovers= A poorly coached team
 

Just looking at the replay from that 4th down play--if Portis breaks it outside to the left he walks in. I didn't mind the call--it was early in the half--and you're right about the field position. I'd rather have Gibbs be aggressive in that instance...

Re: 6 Turnovers= A poorly coached team
 

[quote=SmootSmack;382970]How much you want to bet that if we had converted a first down there, someone would have started a thread saying "Horrible Call on 4th Down...We Should Have Gone with the Bootleg for the Touchdown. Gibbs Has No Guts"[/quote]Of course.

Unless we win. Then none of these nitpicky things matter to that crowd.

[SIZE=1]Don't let them know that the ultimate outcome of the game has nothing to do with the reasoning for any given decision.

[SIZE=2]The whole notion that if we lose, something must have gone wrong on Gibbs' end is really draining from the board. When we win, we get very reasonable, solid debates on select coaching decisions. When we lose, no one seems to remember the first thing about coaching football.[/SIZE]
[/SIZE]

Re: 6 Turnovers= A poorly coached team
 

I thought this year all the players were at our work outs and only Springs came late and maybe one other player.