Homeowner's Association Question
 

OK, so we bought this house and NOWHERE did it say we HAD to join this fucking Homeowner's Assocation. A year went by, they sent us crap to pay "dues" and we ignored it. Our real estate agent told us it was NOT mandatory to join, so we didn't. We officially "live" in the subdivision, however we use a public road while the rest of it uses a private road that's unpaved. They basically want us to pay for their road paving.

We got a letter today saying that NOW we were forced to pay dues because their HOA is "mandatory" now. Can they all of a sudden say that participation is mandatory? We just want to live our lives because we don't give two SHITS what anyone else in this neighborhood does.

Re: Homeowner's Association Question
 

I've read some stuff from other websites saying that if when we joined it was "voluntary" that it cannot be ENFORCED on us to be mandatory, so I was curious if any lawyers (JoeRedskin) knew anything about Virginia property law.

Re: Homeowner's Association Question
 

Read every paper you signed when you purchased your home. If there is nothing in there about you having to join a HOA at some point, then I don't think you have anything to worry about - other than some HOA nazi taking you to court.

I have never heard anything good about a HOA.

Re: Homeowner's Association Question
 

What tuna said. Read the contract.

Re: Homeowner's Association Question
 

You need to look at the original papers filed by the developer [U]and[/U] your deed. HOA's exist through covenants running with the land. Basically, in HOA developments, the developer included a clause in the initial sale of each home that required every purchaser to join the HOA, and that the obligation would pass to a new purchaser as a condition of sale.

Whatever you do - don't pay now, thinking you will sort it out later. That may result in a waiver of rights.

Re: Homeowner's Association Question
 

(and, yes, I'm a lawyer)

(of course, neither this post nor the one preceding it constitute legal advice, and no attorney-client relationship is created or implied by either)

(see, I told you I'm a lawyer)

Re: Homeowner's Association Question
 

yeah that's what my wife said as well, about the deed and conveying with the property...

Re: Homeowner's Association Question
 

I don't know whether you have to pay or not, but I will say this. HOA's are the biggest fucking waste of money I've ever seen. I pay $150 a month, which isn't too bad but I get absolutely NOTHING in return. They're supposed to landscape, they mow maybe 1 or 2 times per month. Supposed to do snow removal, they show up around 5 pm in the evening a day after the snow and then do a horrible job of it. Basically, my experience with the HOA has been me giving them money and them being ungrateful for it. I will never move into a house even hypothetically associated with one of these things again.

Re: Homeowner's Association Question
 

Cool, thanks for the advice guys. According to our original contract that I checked out, there was NOTHING in the covenants about being forced to join an HOA. They asked for dues the past year we've lived here and we've never paid because there's not a signature anywhere saying we wanted to join.

With all that being said, you think I'm good? I support the University lawyer at Washington and Lee. Should I just get a letter from her stating that they can't all-of-a-sudden say it's mandatory and just send it to them and let it be done? We made VERY sure when we bought the house that we didn't "have" to join anything.

Re: Homeowner's Association Question
 

Here's the exact line in the letter we got:

"Remember that the primary reason we formed this HOA was to keep outside developers from building additional homes, especially trashy ones, on our twenty-some acres of open space. [B][I]Our fledgling HOA has now had the opportunity to stabilize and become a mandatory association (meaning that every one of the lot-owners must pay the prescribed annual dues)[/I][/B]."

The part I bolded is where it's obviously implied that you WEREN'T previously required to join it.

Re: Homeowner's Association Question
 

I would tell them to F off or you're going to talk to an attorney.

Re: Homeowner's Association Question
 

Couldn't you just walk into one of their meetings and just tell them "I don't have a vested interest in being a member of your association and as such I don't want to be part of your association. If you continue to badger me, I will be left with no option but to sue you."

Re: Homeowner's Association Question
 

I would definitely question the basis of their authority to [U]require[/U] you to join where it had been permissive before. However, this would require scrutinizing deed recordings. If it's in one of the recorded deeds, you were on constructive notice, so you may be screwed. You can [U]contest[/U] it without an attorney, but you will need an attorney to [U]fight[/U] it.

Re: Homeowner's Association Question
 

the homeowners ass. has no right as far as what will be built on that other land anyway. but they can keep the existing development held to a higher standard

Re: Homeowner's Association Question
 

ex post facto


Tell them to stuff it.

Re: Homeowner's Association Question
 

[quote=onlydarksets;393256]I would definitely question the basis of their authority to [U]require[/U] you to join where it had been permissive before. However, this would require scrutinizing deed recordings. If it's in one of the recorded deeds, you were on constructive notice, so you may be screwed. You can [U]contest[/U] it without an attorney, but you will need an attorney to [U]fight[/U] it.[/quote]
Oh come on... I can tell that TMC has a little Johnny Cochoran in him. If the HOA don't fit, then they must go to "H" "E" Double hockey sticks...

Actually, I think our resident Warpath Council has solid advice and you should retain him... the retainer could be giving him a positive feedback rating on here (ya know, the barter system).

Re: Homeowner's Association Question
 

[quote=onlydarksets;393256]I would definitely question the basis of their authority to [U]require[/U] you to join where it had been permissive before. [I][B]However, this would require scrutinizing deed recordings.[/B][/I] If it's in one of the recorded deeds, you were on constructive notice, so you may be screwed. You can [U]contest[/U] it without an attorney, but you will need an attorney to [U]fight[/U] it.[/quote]

What do you mean here? Like making 100% sure we didn't sign anything forcing us to join? Because I know for a fact (I researched this house VERY thoroughly before we bought it) that joining this was optional.

Re: Homeowner's Association Question
 

[QUOTE=TheMalcolmConnection;393276]What do you mean here? Like making 100% sure we didn't sign anything forcing us to join? Because I know for a fact (I researched this house VERY thoroughly before we bought it) that joining this was optional.[/QUOTE]

HOAs can be explicitly stated within the deed of your house. IE: if it says in your deed that it is required then you are screwed, I would imagine there is a chance you didn't peruse the deed for this since most people don't understand that is where the basis for requiring owenrs to join is. That is the only place a mandatory HOA would be defined is.

Re: Homeowner's Association Question
 

Excellent. There's NO mention of a mandatory HOA in our deed.

Re: Homeowner's Association Question
 

Just to be clear - I do corporate transactional law, and I [B]hated[/B] property in law school. So, although I am a VA attorney, I don't deal with this at all.

That said, what you may have here is an equitable servitude. Basically, that means a developer can put an HOA obligation with the initial purchasers' deeds, and then it doesn't have to be included in subsequent purchasers deeds. In order to determine this, you need to have someone do a title search to pull up all of the prior deeds, and then review each one for the HOA language.

Again, though, you can contest it without an attorney. At the least, tell them that you don't have any record of such an obligation, and you would like to know what [U]they[/U] believe the basis of their authority is. That will at least help you figure out where to look.

Re: Homeowner's Association Question
 

you definitely need the title research done... that's not something you're gonna have sitting in a drawer like an addendum to the purchase contract or anything.

Re: Homeowner's Association Question
 

But what you think it was a good bet it wasn't included considering our real estate company checked it out beforehand just to make sure?

Re: Homeowner's Association Question
 

I'm sure your agent had a title check done at closing, but I don't know if an HOA is the type of thing that they would be looking for.

Re: Homeowner's Association Question
 

[quote=dmek25;393257]the homeowners ass. has no right as far as what will be built on that other land anyway. but they can keep the existing development held to a higher standard[/quote]
Thats not always true. In our area there was a townhouse development which surrounded 6 arc for the townhouse development to turn into a play ground. When the play ground was finished the developer would deed the lan over to the association. Well about ten years went by and the field was nothing but knee to wast high grass. The builder went to the city to get a permit to build on that land. The association faught him over the land at a cityhall meeting and he won. He later gave back 3 acr and built on the other three.

As for the main question

You should have received paper work for you and your wife to sign notifing you of the HOA. You should have received a copy of the buy laws before closing. Our HOA is voluntary and the dues are around $25 per year and all they do is keep up with whats going on in the area making sure that no one is going to bull dose over our houses.

Re: Homeowner's Association Question
 

Wow, I'm glad that I live in a rural area where there's basically no such thing as a homeowner's association. It's expensive enough to own a home let alone someone sitting around thinking of more ways of extracting money out of ya.

Re: Homeowner's Association Question
 

[quote=skinsguy;394303]Wow, I'm glad that I live in a rural area where there's basically no such thing as a homeowner's association. It's expensive enough to own a home let alone someone sitting around thinking of more ways of extracting money out of ya.[/quote]

Sad part, this IS a rural area. We live about 10 miles outside of the nearest town.

Re: Homeowner's Association Question
 

[quote=firstdown;394226]You should have received paper work for you and your wife to sign notifing you of the HOA. You should have received a copy of the buy laws before closing.[/quote]

They [U]should[/U] have, but they not necessarily [U]would[/U] have.

Re: Homeowner's Association Question
 

The only paper work we've gotten from them was them begging us to join this thing about a year ago when we moved in. Since then, they've sent us two letters asking us to join and this is how much our dues are. NOW the last letter says it's mandatory...

Re: Homeowner's Association Question
 

[quote=TheMalcolmConnection;394447]The only paper work we've gotten from them was them begging us to join this thing about a year ago when we moved in. Since then, they've sent us two letters asking us to join and this is how much our dues are. NOW the last letter says it's mandatory...[/quote]
If your in VA. I believe its law that you are notified of any HOA and you have to sign a form saying that you are aware of the HOA. I also believe they have to give you a copy of the Bylaws before closing. This should have been done by the settelment Aty or co.. Have you looked through your closing file to see if that form was included?

Re: Homeowner's Association Question
 

I have and it wasn't, so I'm hoping that's a good sign.

Re: Homeowner's Association Question
 

Post your question here:
[url=http://www.vahoalaw.com/]Virginia Condominium & Homeowners Association Lawyer : Inman & Strickler[/url]

Re: Homeowner's Association Question
 

Nice, cool website.

I will as soon as I figure out how to post..

Re: Homeowner's Association Question
 

Also check [URL="http://fairfaxclubestates.com/Information/Virginia%20POA%20Act%202004.pdf"]here[/URL] for the VA Property Owners' Association Act.