Rock Cartwright returning?
 

Interesting read in the Washington Times today and here is part of the story that may make Rock's return not 100%:

"I want to be here, but my agent [Drew Rosenhaus] and I haven't heard anything from the Redskins," Cartwright said. "The last time I was a free agent [after the 2005 season], I hadn't really played much so no one was going to make me much of an offer. I've been doing a good job of returning kicks for two years and [B]I want an opportunity to run the football. I know that's not going to happen here."[/B]

[url=http://www.washingtontimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071222/SPORTS01/88360794/1005/SPORTS]Rock seeks hefty contract - - The Washington Times, America's Newspaper[/url]

I hope the Skins do resign Rock because the guy just produces.

Re: Rock Cartwright returning?
 

Rock is one of my favorite Redskins.
The last two years he's be a solid kick returner but there is no way we can give a multi-million dollar contract to a guy who only touches the ball 3-4 times a game. He gets zero carries on offense and does not return punts. Rosco Parrish returns Kickoffs, Punts and is the 3rd WR on the team.

I wish him well.

Re: Rock Cartwright returning?
 

I agree with that jamf.

Like rock alot as a kick returner/special teamer, hes played well this year. But he's a backup RB here at best or anywhere else IMO.

Looking for a BIG payday in DC, SEE YA!

We have other areas of real concern to be addressed that will be costly. Hes not one.

Re: Rock Cartwright returning?
 

Well, he's not going to get a chance to run the ball here so I guess if some team wants him as their backup RB he'll probably be out of here. Truth if a guy like Maurice Jones-Drew can be successful why not Rock?

Re: Rock Cartwright returning?
 

Rock tore it up against the Rams back in 2005. He's always questionable to come back, but he always does

Re: Rock Cartwright returning?
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;395841]Rock tore it up against the Rams back in 2005. He's always questionable to come back, but he always does[/QUOTE]

He's kind off like Brian Mitchell and look what Mitchell did when he was given the chance. He tore it up.

Re: Rock Cartwright returning?
 

[QUOTE=saden1;395839]Well, he's not going to get a chance to run the ball here so I guess if some team wants him as their backup RB he'll probably be out of here. Truth if a guy like Maurice Jones-Drew can be successful why not Rock?[/QUOTE]

Because MJD is better. Rock is a solid guy but looks like he wants to get overpaid. I hope it isn't us who do it.

Re: Rock Cartwright returning?
 

he still has fumble issues and isn't as good as our #1 and #2 RBs. he's not going to get paid very much, cause no one is going to consider him as even a low end starter.

Re: Rock Cartwright returning?
 

Let's be real, Rock is no Jones-Drew, not even a 'poor man's Jones-Drew.'

I like Rock a lot & I hope we can keep him, but he's really fishing if he thinks he can get carries in the nfl. Rosenhaus is good at what he does & he will no doubt sell Rock's team first attitude, toughness & overall special teams ability. Some teams will pay a nice bonus to returners, but Rock isn't much at that either. the most you can say about his return ability is that he runs north - south. He lacks the explosiveness or moves to get yards when he doesn't have great blocks though.

As a RB, Rock is very avg., again he runs north-south & hard. Most teams can find better than Rock in the 4th-7th rounds if they're looking for a backup rb. Sad, but Rock is more valuable to us than anybody else. They should make a modest but fair offer.

Re: Rock Cartwright returning?
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;395847]He's kind off like Brian Mitchell and look what Mitchell did when he was given the chance. He tore it up.[/quote]

Tore [U]what[/U] up? I don't recall him ever getting more than a handful of touches.

Re: Rock Cartwright returning?
 

[QUOTE=onlydarksets;395885]Tore [U]what[/U] up? I don't recall him ever getting more than a handful of touches.[/QUOTE]

You obviously don't remember his performance as a 3rd string RB against Minnesota and SF in the playoffs back in 92 were he went back to back to back 100 yard games. I believe he went over 100 the last game of the season and then consecutive playoff games. They should have used him more than the 3rd down role.

Re: Rock Cartwright returning?
 

Rock is no Brian Mitchell either...as you recall...it was a close call that he even made the team this year.
I like Rock but...if he leaves, it could benefit the skins...cause then they'd draft a decent RB mid rounds....and that could be our eventual starter.
Rock will never be a starter...Betts shouldn't be one either, though it is close.
We need a young guy in the 3rd slot...someone with more potential than Rock.

Re: Rock Cartwright returning?
 

[quote=skinsnut;395900]Rock is no Brian Mitchell either...as you recall...it was a close call that he even made the team this year.
I like Rock but...if he leaves, it could benefit the skins...cause then they'd draft a decent RB mid rounds....and that could be our eventual starter.
Rock will never be a starter...Betts shouldn't be one either, though it is close.
We need a young guy in the 3rd slot...someone with more potential than Rock.[/quote]
We still have Marcus Mason on the practice squad

Re: Rock Cartwright returning?
 

[quote=freddyg12;395877]Let's be real, Rock is no Jones-Drew, not even a 'poor man's Jones-Drew.'

I like Rock a lot & I hope we can keep him, but he's really fishing if he thinks he can get carries in the nfl. Rosenhaus is good at what he does & he will no doubt sell Rock's team first attitude, toughness & overall special teams ability. Some teams will pay a nice bonus to returners, but Rock isn't much at that either. the most you can say about his return ability is that he runs north - south. He lacks the explosiveness or moves to get yards when he doesn't have great blocks though.

As a RB, Rock is very avg., again he runs north-south & hard. Most teams can find better than Rock in the 4th-7th rounds if they're looking for a backup rb. Sad, but Rock is more valuable to us than anybody else. They should make a modest but fair offer.[/quote]

um, he's a good kick returner... nothing average there (top 5-10 - check nfl.com's stats). he's just not a good option at running back (as anything besides a backup).

Re: Rock Cartwright returning?
 

[quote=FRPLG;395862]Because MJD is better. Rock is a solid guy but looks like he wants to get overpaid. I hope it isn't us who do it.[/quote]

I don't know, it's not like Rock gets the kinda chance MJD gets for us to say for sure. Plus the Jags have a very good o-line where as ours is almost always missing something. Maybe it's just me but Rock seems to have gotten faster, better at hanging on to the ball and has better vision than a few years ago.

Re: Rock Cartwright returning?
 

[url=http://www.redskins.com/news/newsDetail.jsp?id=3518]Cartwright Makes His Case[/url]

Says pretty much the same thing. Interesting stats though:

REDSKINS ALL-TIME KICKOFF RETURNERS*
Name Returns Yards Average
Brian Mitchell 421 9,586 22.8
Mike Nelms 174 4,128 23.7
Dick James 155 3,959 25.5
Rock Cartwright 132 3,157 23.8
Rickie Harris 101 2,305 22.8

* Through the 2007 season

"With another season in Washington, Cartwright could jump into second place on the list, trailing only Mitchell.

Last season, Cartwright had 52 kickoff returns last year for a 25.8-yard average. He also played on special teams coverage units and had 36 tackles, second-most on the team."


He is clearly more then an average kick returner. Only Dick James averaged more yards/return as a redskin then he has. Not only that, he makes HUGE plays on kick coverge. I would hate to see him go, but he has made it clear he is looking for both an opportunity to run the ball, and for more money. Neither of which the Redskins can really offer him.

"I want to be here," Cartwright said. "I don't want to be anywhere else. But it's not up to me, it's up to the front office. I do have a family I need to take care of. That's the bottom line, so we'll see how it goes."

Re: Rock Cartwright returning?
 

Well yea, but just like someone just said - we still have Marcus Mason in our practice squad.. From what I have seen during preseasons, he did pretty well.. I don't see any reason why he could not accomplish as special team..

Re: Rock Cartwright returning?
 

[quote=GridIron26;409253]Well yea, but just like someone just said - we still have Marcus Mason in our practice squad.. From what I have seen during preseasons, he did pretty well.. I don't see any reason why he could not accomplish as special team..[/quote]

and i don't see any proof that he could do nearly as well either.

if rock wants less than 1mill$ (hopefully vet min), he's worth keeping.

Re: Rock Cartwright returning?
 

Thanks for the memories Rock. The only paydays you'll get in D.C. are at your local convience mart.

Re: Rock Cartwright returning?
 

"I DO HAVE A FAMILY TO TAKE CARE OF" kiss my ass! I think T.O. or someone said the same thing in philly when he wanted more money. SEE YA ROCK!

Re: Rock Cartwright returning?
 

i want him back. a leader, and a damn good return/ special teams guy. Mason hasn't proved he can do anything in a real game.

Re: Rock Cartwright returning?
 

[quote=That Guy;409268]and i don't see any proof that he could do nearly as well either.

if rock wants less than 1mill$ (hopefully vet min), he's worth keeping.[/quote]

I don't think anyone is saying he isn't worth the vet min (what's that $760k or so?). The question is whether he is worth significantly more than that and whether he is going to get the chance to touch the ball on offense. Either of those could be a deal killer if he insists on them.

Re: Rock Cartwright returning?
 

I think when a guy says he wants to take care of his family, he expects to do so with more than the league minimum. I'd expect that this will take a 3 year commitment, with at least $5 million in total money. He might take less elsewhere, but Rock (by his statements) would seem to believe that he's performed above his pay scale and deserves compensation for doing so.

Whereas most franchises would say that he's performed above his pay scale, and thanks a lot for that, but we have to be concerned about tomorrow. Will there be some middle ground? I hope so.

Re: Rock Cartwright returning?
 

[quote=WillH;409251][URL="http://www.redskins.com/news/newsDetail.jsp?id=3518"]Cartwright Makes His Case[/URL]

Says pretty much the same thing. Interesting stats though:

REDSKINS ALL-TIME KICKOFF RETURNERS*
Name Returns Yards Average
Brian Mitchell 421 9,586 22.8
Mike Nelms 174 4,128 23.7
Dick James 155 3,959 25.5
Rock Cartwright 132 3,157 23.8
Rickie Harris 101 2,305 22.8

* Through the 2007 season

"With another season in Washington, Cartwright could jump into second place on the list, trailing only Mitchell.

Last season, Cartwright had 52 kickoff returns last year for a 25.8-yard average. He also played on special teams coverage units and had 36 tackles, second-most on the team."


He is clearly more then an average kick returner. Only Dick James averaged more yards/return as a redskin then he has. Not only that, he makes HUGE plays on kick coverge. I would hate to see him go, but he has made it clear he is looking for both an opportunity to run the ball, and for more money. Neither of which the Redskins can really offer him.

"I want to be here," Cartwright said. "I don't want to be anywhere else. But it's not up to me, it's up to the front office. I do have a family I need to take care of. That's the bottom line, so we'll see how it goes."[/quote]

I totally disagree, don't just go by the #s. Rock basically runs straight up the wedge, which is his job, and that's why he's got a solid avg. However, even when he has exceptional blocking, he lacks speed, quickness & moves to take the ball that extra 5-10 yards or more. He'll break arm tackles but he doesn't make much on his own IMO.

Don't get me wrong, I'd like to keep Rock for chemistry's sake & his spec. teams coverage, but I think KR & 3rd RB could easily be upgraded in the late rounds or undrafted rooks. Mason looks like he has more potential as a RB than Rock.

Re: Rock Cartwright returning?
 

I hope they can re-sign him, at a fair price for everyone. as far as everyone saying he can't run, well when was he given the opportunity? the only opportunities I have seen him run the ball, he does DAMN good. Rams, I believe he had a couple of carries against the 49ers a couple of years ago and they guy hits the hole really well. I wouldn't mind seeing him at least get a shot at running the ball in the offseason or preseason. you never know what you have, he may be a very productive guy in the backfield.

Re: Rock Cartwright returning?
 

Rock is one of my favorite Redskins. I would hate to see him playing for any other team, but right now we have to think about the draft, and free agency. We can't throw a bunch of money towards someone that only touches the ball a couple times a game. I'm really suprised that he's asking for more money. Any chance that he just fishing to see if anyone bites?

Re: Rock Cartwright returning?
 

[quote=#56fanatic;409301]I hope they can re-sign him, at a fair price for everyone. as far as everyone saying he can't run, well when was he given the opportunity? the only opportunities I have seen him run the ball, he does DAMN good. Rams, I believe he had a couple of carries against the 49ers a couple of years ago and they guy hits the hole really well. I wouldn't mind seeing him at least get a shot at running the ball in the offseason or preseason. you never know what you have, he may be a very productive guy in the backfield.[/quote]

see the spurrier era :/.

he's okay, but not as good as betts or portis, and he fumbles a lot... so why should he be put over either of them when he's proven he's not nearly as good?

Re: Rock Cartwright returning?
 

[url=http://mvn.com/nfl-redskins/2008/01/17/why-do-we-love-rock-cartwright/]Hog Heaven | MVN - Most Valuable Network » Blog Archive » Why do we Love Rock Cartwright?[/url]

But dont tell them I sent you.

Re: Rock Cartwright returning?
 

If he wants to leave for more money, let him...he is a decent kick returner...that is all...
Any RB draft pick above the 5th round will show more potential of coming off the bench as a RB....

He'll actually be doing us a favor by leaving...that will mean we will have to draft a young RB...and that is sorely needed for the future

I like the guy, but as a number 3 backup?
I don't think so.

Re: Rock Cartwright returning?
 

Comparing Rock to Jones-Drew is a joke.

Rock has been a good return man but if he's looking to expand his role it won't happen here with Portis and Betts ahead of him.

Re: Rock Cartwright returning?
 

Not to get off subject, but I could see the f.o. looking at drafting a returner if they see the possibilities being good. The guy that makes sense from this standpoint is Deshean Jackson, wr from Cal. He's a burner & returns punts & kickoffs. He may still be there at #21. While I wouldn't otherwise say WR should be our 1st pick, Jackson makes sense at that pick due to his great potential at wr, but mainly because he could have an immediate as a returner.

I believe ARE's days of punt returning are numbered. He's playing more snaps at wr & he just seems to spend more time east to west looking for a big play rather than taking what's there. Rock is nothing special as a kick returner & if you look at the job the blockers did this year, if we had a burner back there we might've seen a couple tds.

In all, I'd hate to see Rock go cause he's been a loyal skin since day 1, but on the biz/football side of it, Gibbs' leaving does not look good for him to remain here.

Re: Rock Cartwright returning?
 

[quote=freddyg12;409627]Not to get off subject, but I could see the f.o. looking at drafting a returner if they see the possibilities being good. The guy that makes sense from this standpoint is Deshean Jackson, wr from Cal. He's a burner & returns punts & kickoffs. He may still be there at #21. While I wouldn't otherwise say WR should be our 1st pick, Jackson makes sense at that pick due to his great potential at wr, but mainly because he could have an immediate as a returner.

I believe ARE's days of punt returning are numbered. He's playing more snaps at wr & he just seems to spend more time east to west looking for a big play rather than taking what's there. Rock is nothing special as a kick returner & if you look at the job the blockers did this year, if we had a burner back there we might've seen a couple tds.

In all, I'd hate to see Rock go cause he's been a loyal skin since day 1, but on the biz/football side of it, Gibbs' leaving does not look good for him to remain here.[/quote]

are has 4 years left of returning... moss can still do it, so can betts.

again, jackson WILL NOT be there at 21. there's just no way that'll happen.

Re: Rock Cartwright returning?
 

[quote=That Guy;409633]are has 4 years left of returning... moss can still do it, so can betts.

again, jackson WILL NOT be there at 21. there's just no way that'll happen.[/quote]

4 years? Maybe he'll be healthy enough to do it for 4 more years, but I question ow effective he'll be over that time. Given his increased role on offense, I don't know how much the coaches will want him to return punts. I really don't think he did a good job this year at it. I understand that on most punt returns there's very little there, but sometimes you have to get the ball & take the 5 yards in front of you rather than trying to dance around looking for a big opening.

It's not a major need, but if 2 birds could be killed w/one stone, it would be a good pick to get a wr w/return ability. Also, Talib the CB from Kansas would fit that bill as well.

I agree that Jackson isn't likely to be there at #21, but I also don't see it as a huge probability that he won't. At this point none of the recievers are being heralded as sure top 10 picks. We'll see how he looks after the combine, he may have Desmond Howard written all over him by then!

Re: Rock Cartwright returning?
 

[quote=freddyg12;409636]4 years? Maybe he'll be healthy enough to do it for 4 more years, but I question ow effective he'll be over that time. Given his increased role on offense, I don't know how much the coaches will want him to return punts. I really don't think he did a good job this year at it. I understand that on most punt returns there's very little there, but sometimes you have to get the ball & take the 5 yards in front of you rather than trying to dance around looking for a big opening.

It's not a major need, but if 2 birds could be killed w/one stone, it would be a good pick to get a wr w/return ability. Also, Talib the CB from Kansas would fit that bill as well.

I agree that Jackson isn't likely to be there at #21, but I also don't see it as a huge probability that he won't. At this point none of the recievers are being heralded as sure top 10 picks. We'll see how he looks after the combine, he may have Desmond Howard written all over him by then![/quote]

if he's desmond howard, then why would we want to waste a pick on him?

Re: Rock Cartwright returning?
 

[quote=That Guy;409642]if he's desmond howard, then why would we want to waste a pick on him?[/quote]

Exactly!

We don't know if he's Desmond Howard, Marvin Harrison, or any no. of mediocre recievers in between. I was just pointing out that I have some apprehension w/drafting a WR in the 1st round, given our track record & for that matter the track record of 1st & 2nd round wr picks in general.

Despite that apprehension, I would feel better about it if we drafted a wr w/return ability & w/the intention that we would look to fill that role on punt & maybe kickoff returns too.

Re: Rock Cartwright returning?
 

[quote=That Guy;409642]if he's desmond howard, then why would we want to waste a pick on him?[/quote]

in addition, I was pointing out that by the time the combine is over his stock may rise or fall significantly.

Re: Rock Cartwright returning?
 

Looks like he's seeking $2mil guaranteed.
[url=http://blog.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/2008/02/albright_resigns.html]Albright Re-Signs - Redskins Insider[/url]

Re: Rock Cartwright returning?
 

[quote=skinsfan_nn;395834]I agree with that jamf.

Like rock alot as a kick returner/special teamer, hes played well this year. But he's a backup RB here at best or anywhere else IMO.

Looking for a BIG payday in DC, SEE YA!

We have other areas of real concern to be addressed that will be costly. Hes not one.[/quote]He deserved the Betts extension more than Betts did. Rock would have been fine as the number two RB, and has over his career been a better ball carrier than Betts.

But he's not going to climb on the team's depth chart so we can't afford to pay him like a guy who is one play away from being the starter.

Re: Rock Cartwright returning?
 

[quote=onlydarksets;423009]Looks like he's seeking $2mil guaranteed.
[URL="http://blog.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/2008/02/albright_resigns.html"]Albright Re-Signs - Redskins Insider[/URL][/quote]That's doable.

4 yrs, 7 million, $2 guarenteed. If he'd sign for that, it'd work for both parties.

Re: Rock Cartwright returning?
 

if he wants more than 4yrs 7 mill, he's replaceable.