The case against Cowher
 

Here's my take on Cowher.

He is a really good coach. He had some dominant defensive talent early in his career (Greg Lloyd, Kevin Greene, Rod Woodson) and got the most out of them. He stuck with an underperforming QB (Kordell Stewart) for too long, to the eventual detriment of his team. During much of his career, the Steelers were in the worst conference in football (The Bengals were horrible until 2003, the Browns had two winning seasons in his tenure, and the Ravens were schizophrenically great or rotten). There was a stretch in his tenure (1998-2000) where he never finished above 3rd in his division (and people were openly calling for his head), which was righted after realignment (which gave him the Browns, Bengals, and Ravens twice a year).

What part of that screams "We gotta get this guy!"

His demand for total personnel control? Do the names Tommy Maddox or Kordell Stewart give you pause when thinking about ceding complete control?

Is stability the real answer? Because, I think I could prove that the Rooney family doesn't know how to fire people. They haven't fired a head coach since 1968. That guy (Mike Austin) won eleven games in three years, and may have deserved it.

Do we feel like he's the guy who can light a fire in the players' collective belly? Here's the major additions to the Steelers this year: coach Mike Tomlin, and punter Daniel Sepulveda. Who's more responsible for the extra three wins they got this year? My guess is the coach.

The popular notion is that we can throw enough money at Cowher to make him consider this. Perhaps the real question is, do we really want a leader who won't be bothered to get off his couch for less than $10 million?

[I][SIZE="1"]It should be noted that if Coach Cowher is hired, I'll erase this thread and anyone who dares quote it. I'm a moderator, and I'm crazy in the head.[/SIZE][/I]

Re: The case against Cowher
 

I gotta agree, it took the man 15 years to win a Super Bowl with one team. Why are people so enamored with him? Great, he won a Superbowl. Great, he sticks to the run game, and everyone always thinks we are a run first team. But sticking to the run isn't necessessarily a good thing, most Super Bowl winners have a balanced attack nowadays.

Re: The case against Cowher
 

Good thread. Good points.

Let me ask you this, do you think his personnel decisions were hindered by a limited checkbook in Pittsburgh?

Re: The case against Cowher
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;404930]Good thread. Good points.

Let me ask you this, do you think his personnel decisions were hindered by a limited checkbook in Pittsburgh?[/QUOTE]

To some extent - frankly, most teams don't have the advantage the Skins do (with the ability to pay so much in bonuses).

There's a wonderful website ( [url]http://www.steelersalarycap.com/[/url] ) that shows approximately where the team was from 1994 (the first year of the cap) through the present. From 1994 through 2004, they created a statistic called SALVOA, or SALary Value Over Average. The Steelers were below the league average only twice, and never by more than 5%. Does that mean he let valuable players leave the team because he couldn't afford them anymore? And if so, how does that speak to his ability to "buy the groceries"?

Re: The case against Cowher
 

Where did the Cowher idea come from anyway?

I've been working a lot.Maybe I missed something.

Re: The case against Cowher
 

[QUOTE=BrudLee;404935]To some extent - frankly, most teams don't have the advantage the Skins do (with the ability to pay so much in bonuses).

There's a wonderful website ( [url]http://www.steelersalarycap.com/[/url] ) that shows approximately where the team was from 1994 (the first year of the cap) through the present. From 1994 through 2004, they created a statistic called SALVOA, or SALary Value Over Average. The Steelers were below the league average only twice, and never by more than 5%. Does that mean he let valuable players leave the team because he couldn't afford them anymore? And if so, how does that speak to his ability to "buy the groceries"?[/QUOTE]

Does SALVOA factor in all players or just the Samoans (see what I did there)?

Anyhow, good information there. For the record, while I could think of worse options Cowher isn't my first choice to take over. My fear, as I told you elsewhere Brud is that if we don't get Cowher this year we'll just try again next year unless we really make a full commitment to someone. Such as Gregg Williams.

Re: The case against Cowher
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;404939]Does SALVOA factor in all players or just the Samoans (see what I did there)?

Anyhow, good information there. For the record, while I could think of worse options Cowher isn't my first choice to take over. My fear, as I told you elsewhere Brud is that if we don't get Cowher this year we'll just try again next year unless we really make a full commitment to someone. Such as Gregg Williams.[/QUOTE]

How did I not see a Big Joe reference coming? I'm getting too old for this sh---(EXPLOSION!)

The Cowher fans seem to want stability by the comments I've heard around the Intarweb, and in a quest for stability, they would risk completely overturning the coaching staff and much of the roster. That's called "irony", despite what Miss Morrisette may have told you.

Re: The case against Cowher
 

These are great points, and one's that I agree with as well. But the fact of the matter is, we as fans (especially here) I think do far more research into the thought process of hiring someone like Cowher, when all that Danny does is think...."I want Bill Cowher"....and then Danny goes and gets Bill Cowher....whatever it takes.

Re: The case against Cowher
 

I agree. I really don't want to see Cowher in D.C. and I think the players (especially our defense) would resent him for taking the job they believed should have gone to Greg Williams. Also, we were just starting to get some positive media attention for the first time in years as a team that emphasizes family first, a place where prospective free agents might want to come for a little less maybe. Let's not screw that up and go back to making splashy moves from outside of the organization, like we used to.

But not to worry, I totally believe Snyder is smarter that a lot of fans give him credit for and he will make the right move by giving the job to G. Williams. You don't become a self made multi-millionaire/billionaire with just dumb luck.

Re: The case against Cowher
 

How about "I'm not ready to go through rebuilding years?" It takes two years for most new coach to be successful which means most of our players will be senior citizens eligible for Medicare and their prime years would be wasted.

Snyder would be stupid not to try and keep both GW and Saunders.

Re: The case against Cowher
 

and I always have to see Cowher cry on that damn NFL Network commercial. No to Cowher and Yes to Williams.

Re: The case against Cowher
 

[QUOTE=BrudLee;404923]Here's my take on Cowher.

He is a really good coach. He had some dominant defensive talent early in his career (Greg Lloyd, Kevin Greene, Rod Woodson) and got the most out of them. He stuck with an underperforming QB (Kordell Stewart) for too long, to the eventual detriment of his team. During much of his career, the Steelers were in the worst conference in football (The Bengals were horrible until 2003, the Browns had two winning seasons in his tenure, and the Ravens were schizophrenically great or rotten). There was a stretch in his tenure (1998-2000) where he never finished above 3rd in his division (and people were openly calling for his head), which was righted after realignment (which gave him the Browns, Bengals, and Ravens twice a year).

What part of that screams "We gotta get this guy!"

His demand for total personnel control? Do the names Tommy Maddox or Kordell Stewart give you pause when thinking about ceding complete control?

Is stability the real answer? Because, I think I could prove that the Rooney family doesn't know how to fire people. They haven't fired a head coach since 1968. That guy (Mike Austin) won eleven games in three years, and may have deserved it.

Do we feel like he's the guy who can light a fire in the players' collective belly? Here's the major additions to the Steelers this year: coach Mike Tomlin, and punter Daniel Sepulveda. Who's more responsible for the extra three wins they got this year? My guess is the coach.

The popular notion is that we can throw enough money at Cowher to make him consider this. Perhaps the real question is, do we really want a leader who won't be bothered to get off his couch for less than $10 million?

[I][SIZE="1"]It should be noted that if Coach Cowher is hired, I'll erase this thread and anyone who dares quote it. I'm a moderator, and I'm crazy in the head.[/SIZE][/I][/QUOTE]

I'm not a Cowher fan but he didnt draft Kordell.

Re: The case against Cowher
 

The main issue I see with Cowher is control. We all know that didn't fly very well when Marty wanted total control, so I don't see how Snyder would be willing to give that up again. Especially since he's already said he wants to keep the personnel acquisition process the same.

Re: The case against Cowher
 

[quote=lowblowlandry;404978]I agree. I really don't want to see Cowher in D.C. and I think the players (especially our defense) would resent him for taking the job they believed should have gone to Greg Williams. Also, we were just starting to get some positive media attention for the first time in years as a team that emphasizes family first, a place where prospective free agents might want to come for a little less maybe. Let's not screw that up and go back to making splashy moves from outside of the organization, like we used to.

But not to worry, I totally believe Snyder is smarter that a lot of fans give him credit for and he will make the right move by giving the job to G. Williams. You don't become a self made multi-millionaire/billionaire with just dumb luck.[/quote]

Welcome on your first post & nice name, Lowblow. I totally agree w/your first paragraph & I know many here do as well, while I HOPE that your 2nd paragraph is true.

Snyder's brilliant as a biz man, no doubt about that. I didn't realize until I read the wash post article today about him, that his first fortune was made through 'Snyder Communications.' I thought he got into real estate development first. Look at his other investments, Dick Clark productions & Six Flags. The man is in the entertainment business. Where football people & fans might see an obvious need for continuity w/the staff, Synder may fear the team loses its luster w/an ordinary dude like Grilliams. The last line of this article is scary, though its only from a ticket broker. here's the link
[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/01/08/AR2008010804042.html]washingtonpost.com[/url]

Re: The case against Cowher
 

The biggest argument against bringing in Cowher is based around the salary cap. Consider this:

1) The Redskins are currently over the cap by $20 million, which is a straw man number of course. They've got the ability to restructure contracts and get about $10-15 million under the cap before free agency and the draft. That should give a new guy like Cowher good flexibility to get a few guys he likes in free agency. But not too many. He can't do what Gibbs did in 2004 and bring in a slew of guys (Griffin, Washington, Portis, Brunell, Daniels, Springs, Moss). In other words, Cowher's going to be forced to work mostly with what he has, which leads me to my next point...

2) Cowher has traditionally fielded a very large and physical offensive line. Our current group is not exceptionally large (more middle of the road, even on the smaller side). We're an athletic line, a la Al Saunders, as opposed to huge mashers. If Cowher wants to change out the offensive line, he can't. We can't gain any cap relief from the Jon Jansen contract until 2010. We can't gain cap relief from the Randy Thomas contract until 2011. And we can't gain cap relief from the Samuels contract until 2009. I personally don't understand why you'd ever want to get rid of those guys, even if you like bigger linemen. But the point remains, Cowher would be stuck with them.

3) Defensively, Cowher runs a 3-4. Given the points I made in number (1) above, Cowher can't just go bringing in the LBs we'd need to run his 3-4. Or maybe he'd play Andre Carter at the rush LB spot? And I'm not sure Griffin or Montgomery are suited to be the anchor you need in the middle of a 3-man line. He probably needs a big NT like Vince Wilfork. But the main point; given that the Redskins need to restructure a bunch of deals this year just to get under the cap and shed that $20 million we're currently over by, this will kick more of the cap hit into the future for those players. In 2009 and 2010, the Skins may find it even tougher to get under the cap, and may be even more restrained in free agency.

In summation, if Cowher wants to change out the personnel to fit his traditional style of play, it's going to take 3 or 4 years to do it. He won't have the flexibility in free agency to change the makeup of the team. He can't shed some of the big contracts for another few years. He'll have to do it through the draft. Or, instead of trying to change the team to fit his system, he could try to change his system to fit his team. But it seems like Gregg Williams would be better suited for that, after all, he and Saunders already have the system that fits the team best.

The Redskins do not have the cap flexibility to change the team every four years. Snyder has made a financial committment to a number of vets through the restructuring of contracts. He's showing a tendency towards keeping players together for the long haul; but if he brings in a new coach who tries to fit those round players into square holes, it will be a disaster. There's only one choice for the team given the salary cap picture: Gregg Williams.

Re: The case against Cowher
 

My gut feeling is that Cowher sits out another year (his daughter is in high school 1 more year in Raleigh, NC)....then Fox screws up again with the Panthers and Cowher takes the Panthers job in 09.

The only other coach out there that will completely change a team is Marty Shottenheimer.....and you KNOW he aint coaching here again.

I still say odds are 90% Coach Williams is our man.
Turnover risks are just to high otherwise....especially with Saunders

Re: The case against Cowher
 

[quote=Schneed10;405018]The biggest argument against bringing in Cowher is based around the salary cap. Consider this:

1) The Redskins are currently over the cap by $20 million, which is a straw man number of course. They've got the ability to restructure contracts and get about $10-15 million under the cap before free agency and the draft. That should give a new guy like Cowher good flexibility to get a few guys he likes in free agency. But not too many. He can't do what Gibbs did in 2004 and bring in a slew of guys (Griffin, Washington, Portis, Brunell, Daniels, Springs, Moss). In other words, Cowher's going to be forced to work mostly with what he has, which leads me to my next point...

2) Cowher has traditionally fielded a very large and physical offensive line. Our current group is not exceptionally large (more middle of the road, even on the smaller side). We're an athletic line, a la Al Saunders, as opposed to huge mashers. If Cowher wants to change out the offensive line, he can't. We can't gain any cap relief from the Jon Jansen contract until 2010. We can't gain cap relief from the Randy Thomas contract until 2011. And we can't gain cap relief from the Samuels contract until 2009. I personally don't understand why you'd ever want to get rid of those guys, even if you like bigger linemen. But the point remains, Cowher would be stuck with them.

3) Defensively, Cowher runs a 3-4. Given the points I made in number (1) above, Cowher can't just go bringing in the LBs we'd need to run his 3-4. Or maybe he'd play Andre Carter at the rush LB spot? And I'm not sure Griffin or Montgomery are suited to be the anchor you need in the middle of a 3-man line. He probably needs a big NT like Vince Wilfork. But the main point; given that the Redskins need to restructure a bunch of deals this year just to get under the cap and shed that $20 million we're currently over by, this will kick more of the cap hit into the future for those players. In 2009 and 2010, the Skins may find it even tougher to get under the cap, and may be even more restrained in free agency.

In summation, if Cowher wants to change out the personnel to fit his traditional style of play, it's going to take 3 or 4 years to do it. He won't have the flexibility in free agency to change the makeup of the team. He can't shed some of the big contracts for another few years. He'll have to do it through the draft. Or, instead of trying to change the team to fit his system, he could try to change his system to fit his team. But it seems like Gregg Williams would be better suited for that, after all, he and Saunders already have the system that fits the team best.

The Redskins do not have the cap flexibility to change the team every four years. Snyder has made a financial committment to a number of vets through the restructuring of contracts. He's showing a tendency towards keeping players together for the long haul; but if he brings in a new coach who tries to fit those round players into square holes, it will be a disaster. There's only one choice for the team given the salary cap picture: Gregg Williams.[/quote]

thorough post Schneed. It seems obvious to us, but Snyder is a salesman & marketer. If anybody could convince Cowher that it's a good fit, it would be him (and $10mil a year helps a lot!). Cowher might come to an interview w/his agent well prepared to ask all relevant questions about the cap & personel, yet Snyder & co. might be better prepared to spin the situation.

Sadly, all the reasons you list for Cowher not being a good fit here, point to two reasons that he would take the job:
1) $$
2) challenge

Given the circumstances, he might be interested if & only if he's the highest paid guy in the league, or to be more cynical, he might just be interested in a big payday at this point of his career. To justify taking the job, he can convince himself that it's a "challenge" that he's never faced before.

I surely hope the Danny is just being coy about this & putting up a front for the nfl to show he's taking the process seriously, and that he's going to give GW an honest chance to convince him. At this point who can predict what Snyder will do?

Re: The case against Cowher
 

Isn't Cowher a very similar coach to Joe Gibbs? Obviously, the score is 3-1 but there are some stylistic similarities.

They both champion a run oriented, ball control offense with an extreme emphasis on limiting turn overs. Both are considered conservative play callers, almost to a fault. Lastly, both are excellent motivators. Cowher was universally loved by his team, until his final year when he and Roethlisberger were at odds.While I do think that GWilliams is the best choice, I do not believe that Cowher will be a drastic change.

One thing I will say is that I do not see a very strong cost vs. benefit ratio to Cowher. What is it going to take to get him out of retirement, $8 million per? If the man isn't motivated to coach by anything more than dollar signs, do we really want him? I could be wrong, but I think GWill would be the better value. That may not even be a concern since coaches' salaries are outside of the cap and Dan isn't exactly hurting financially.

GW, in my opinion, has got to be chomping at the bit so to speak for this opportunity. He pretty much ego'd (sorry matty) his way out of Buffalo and hasn't really been in the mix for any HC jobs since. This is his shot at redemption and that is a much better motivator than money.

Another argument that has been made in GW's favor is the fact that the players are behind him. That may be, but I don't think it would take more than a few days for the team to come to terms with playing for a coach with a super bowl win on his resume. At the end of the day, players just want to win and BC has proven he can do that.

I think that while I would prefer Grilliams, I would be OK with BC as an alternate.

Re: The case against Cowher
 

Cowher won't coach here b/c of the FO structure. He is a Marty guy and guess what Marty left b/c of lack of control. I don't think it will happen. FWIW i think Cowher is a great coach. It's not easy to get in the playoffs virtually every year.

I hope we don't bring in a college coach...PLEASE NO. Pete Carroll included. I don't know if anyone remembers it, but PC didn't do to well in the NFL the first time. I'm not against 2nd chances but please no college coaches.

My only vote is for GW.

Re: The case against Cowher
 

[QUOTE=BleedBurgundy;405032]Isn't Cowher a very similar coach to Joe Gibbs? Obviously, the score is 3-1 but there are some stylistic similarities.

They both champion a run oriented, ball control offense with an extreme emphasis on limiting turn overs. Both are considered conservative play callers, almost to a fault. Lastly, both are excellent motivators. Cowher was universally loved by his team, until his final year when he and Roethlisberger were at odds.While I do think that GWilliams is the best choice, I do not believe that Cowher will be a drastic change.

One thing I will say is that I do not see a very strong cost vs. benefit ratio to Cowher. What is it going to take to get him out of retirement, $8 million per? If the man isn't motivated to coach by anything more than dollar signs, do we really want him? I could be wrong, but I think GWill would be the better value. That may not even be a concern since coaches' salaries are outside of the cap and Dan isn't exactly hurting financially.

GW, in my opinion, has got to be chomping at the bit so to speak for this opportunity. He pretty much ego'd (sorry matty) his way out of Buffalo and hasn't really been in the mix for any HC jobs since. This is his shot at redemption and that is a much better motivator than money.

Another argument that has been made in GW's favor is the fact that the players are behind him. That may be, but I don't think it would take more than a few days for the team to come to terms with playing for a coach with a super bowl win on his resume. At the end of the day, players just want to win and BC has proven he can do that.

I think that while I would prefer Grilliams, I would be OK with BC as an alternate.[/QUOTE]

Cowher was not universally loved by the team. He was being tuned out by most in his next to last season and in his last season it was Bettis, not Cowher, that everyone listened to.

BTW, Too is not the same as to.

Re: The case against Cowher
 

[QUOTE=irish;405035]Cowher was not universally loved by the team. He was being tuned out by most in his next to last season and in his last season it was Bettis, not Cowher, that everyone listened to.

BTW, Too is not the same as to.[/QUOTE]

The only issue I have heard at all was about Roethlisberger not thinking Cowher was opening up the offense for him. I don't buy that "everyone was listening to Bettis" nonsense. Bettis was a running back, not a coach. To suggest otherwise is not logical.

and regarding "too=to" you're missing the whole point.

Re: The case against Cowher
 

i think you guys have hit it. i really do not want to see a new staff come in here. so you pay cowher $10M/year?

i think it'd be really easy to take three years, get us nowhere, and be $30M richer as we go into yet another rebuilding stage.

obviously i'll cheer for whatever happens, but we really need to keep our current coaches and players around for the most part. at least give them two years.

Re: The case against Cowher
 

[QUOTE=BleedBurgundy;405038]The only issue I have heard at all was about Roethlisberger not thinking Cowher was opening up the offense for him. I don't buy that "everyone was listening to Bettis" nonsense. Bettis was a running back, not a coach. To suggest otherwise is not logical.

and regarding "too=to" you're missing the whole point.[/QUOTE]

I am only telling you what my Pgh connections told me. Bettis was the motivator and person the team rallied around, not Cowher.

Re: The case against Cowher
 

[QUOTE=irish;405042]I am only telling you what my Pgh connections told me. Bettis was the motivator and person the team rallied around, not Cowher.[/QUOTE]

I'm not calling you a liar, I just think alot of that came after the fact. I do believe that Bettis probably did have a big leadership role for a player on the team. That said, you can't take the HC's credit away for a super bowl winning season and say it was due to a running back's locker room influence. My opinion.

Re: The case against Cowher
 

[QUOTE=BleedBurgundy;405047]I'm not calling you a liar, I just think alot of that came after the fact. I do believe that Bettis probably did have a big leadership role for a player on the team. That said, you can't take the HC's credit away for a super bowl winning season and say it was due to a running back's locker room influence. My opinion.[/QUOTE]

I was being told that stuff after the first playoff game not after the Super Bowl win. I think Cowher did a good job with all the football stuff but his style grates on players and eventually they just get sick of it and tune him out.

Re: The case against Cowher
 

I agree. Not sure where I heard it ( i think it was on the barber shop on Sirius) but I think Ronde Barber was talking about limitations on how long a coach can be effective. There's only so long you can hear the same thing over and over before you start tuning it out. That's human nature. I'm sure it applies to just about any coach.

Re: The case against Cowher
 

[quote=redsk1;405034]Cowher won't coach here b/c of the FO structure. He is a Marty guy and guess what Marty left b/c of lack of control. I don't think it will happen. FWIW i think Cowher is a great coach. It's not easy to get in the playoffs virtually every year.

I hope we don't bring in a college coach...PLEASE NO. Pete Carroll included. I don't know if anyone remembers it, but PC didn't do to well in the NFL the first time. I'm not against 2nd chances but please no college coaches.

My only vote is for GW.[/quote]

Just to make my opinion clear again, I want GW as head coach.

However, I do fear the Danny's courting Cowher. You use Marty as an example, but remember that Marty said he'd "never" work for Snyder, then lo & behold he's in skins gear.

Cowher might want total control, but that doesn't mean he can't be sold on the idea of working in the committee w/Dan & Vinny on personel.

While I agree w/most assessments here about the fo structure, players, cap & how Cowher wouldn't be a good fit, I think you have to at least concede that if the Danny has Cowher in mind, he'll do whatever he can to get him here. That scares me & I hope he thinks it through enough to realize that Gibbs has built a foundation that could easily crumble if you bring in the wrong guy, or for that matter bringing in anyone rather than hiring GW.

Re: The case against Cowher
 

Personally I would rather the Redskins hire GW, and while there may be some speculation as to who truly deserves the credit for the Steeler's Super Bowl victory, I think we're downplaying Cowher's accomplishments as a head coach. We can critize him for hanging on to Stewart too long, among other things, but to suggest that he has been anything but a consistent winner over the course of his career is simply incorrect. There have been comments made that suggest winning the Super Bowl was the only thing he's ever done. In his 15 seasons of head coaching, he won 8 division championships and 2 conference championships. He took his team to the Conference championship SIX times in 15 seasons. That's more times than Gibbs, Belichick and Parcells. It's hard to suggest that his plethora of division titles were a result of a weak division, in light of the fact that he consistently took his teams deep into the playoffs.

I'd prefer to have GW, but I certainly wouldn't be upset with Cowher.

Re: The case against Cowher
 

Cowher is definitely a no...I believe that GW is definitely the next in line and here's why:

If you recall, I believe after the 2004 season ended a couple teams (can't recall who) were after GW for a head coaching job. These offers were not entertained and GW stated that he wanted to stay here in Washington. There was speculation that GW was
"promised" the HC position when Gibbs stepped down... Now everyone seem concerned that Al S. will get p-turbed and leave if GW gets the HC job but if this was all ironed out prior to Al S. stepping in… then there is "no issue”.

Coach Gibbs objective from day 1 of the GibbsII campaign was to return this team to the greatness it once was. I definitely feel we are on the right path and do you really think for once second that coach Gibbs would walk away from all his hard work only to have it torn apart by someone other than who he trusts and knows and has work closely with for that past 4 years???? Do you really think for once second that coach Gibbs would walk away from all his hard work without having a solid plan, ready to be executed at a moments notice??? If coach Gibbs walks away from this team and leaves it in shambles his character is completely tarnished!!! No brainer man... Gregg Williams is the next Head Coach of the Washington Redskins and I honestly believe that we won't skip a beat... Can’t wait for 2008!!!! GO SKINS!

Re: The case against Cowher
 

I''l be mildly surprised if Cowher is ever our head coach. Even a bit more surprised if Williams isn't offered the job. He could decline it, of course. #1 on my list is Williams.
#2 is Russ Grimm. I do like the security blanket idea of bringing in a former Skins player with a plenty of coaching experience in today's NFL. However, by bringing in Grimm are we destined to use his own legacy against him, too?

Re: The case against Cowher
 

[QUOTE=724Skinsfan;405076]I''l be mildly surprised if Cowher is ever our head coach. Even a bit more surprised if Williams isn't offered the job. He could decline it, of course. #1 on my list is Williams.
#2 is Russ Grimm. I do like the security blanket idea of bringing in a former Skins player with a plenty of coaching experience in today's NFL. However, by bringing in Grimm are we destined to use his own legacy against him, too?[/QUOTE]

I'm suprised cause if Williams was the next hire, I figure that would have been part of the press conference yesterday. If his (Snyder's) mind is made up, why wait? I think it's obvious he's looking outside the team first.

Honestly, I'd be fine if they blew the team up and started over with Cowher or someone else. It's not like we're breaking up the 1989 49ers here. One playoff win in four years under Gibbs, etc? What chemistry, etc are people afraid of upsetting? The mediocrity, the losses, the barely scraping into the playoffs twice only to be bounced out just as fast? I will always love and respect Gibbs and his staff but it got old about 3 years ago seeing him and Bugle and Williams, etc with the constant "well we fought hard" and the "boys gave it their all", etc....same tired press conferences after the same tired losses, breakdowns on offense, defense....

I say blast em up and bring someone else in....although without a GM I don't think anyone will be successful here.

Re: The case against Cowher
 

[quote=freddyg12;405068]Just to make my opinion clear again, I want GW as head coach.

However, I do fear the Danny's courting Cowher. You use Marty as an example, but remember that Marty said he'd "never" work for Snyder, then lo & behold he's in skins gear.

Cowher might want total control, but that doesn't mean he can't be sold on the idea of working in the committee w/Dan & Vinny on personel.

While I agree w/most assessments here about the fo structure, players, cap & how Cowher wouldn't be a good fit, I think you have to at least concede that if the Danny has Cowher in mind, he'll do whatever he can to get him here. That scares me & I hope he thinks it through enough to realize that Gibbs has built a foundation that could easily crumble if you bring in the wrong guy, or for that matter bringing in anyone rather than hiring GW.[/quote]

Oh, I agree w/ you that I think Dan S can talk a good game. Marty said he'd never come here and he did. I was making the point that his friend and mentor Marty S came here w/ and it couldn't work/didn't work b/c of lack of control. I've got to think Cowher would know this and use it as an example.

With all that, it would not be surprising to see Dan S lure Cowher here.

Re: The case against Cowher
 

Why bring another coach in from retirement only to have him leave in 5 years or so...
Gregg Williams is 49y/o and has quite a few years ahead of him to coach (10+ potentially) With Cowher.... who knows!

How about a little analogy....

when you build a house...

you clear the lot of trees etc.... (Gibbs2.0)
escavate the grounds... (Gibbs2.0)
pour the footer... (Gibbs2.0)
pour the foundation... (Gibbs2.0)
begin framing...(Gibbs2.0)
build the roof to protect it all... (Gibbs2.0)
etc...etc.... etc....

If I was building a house and I was unable to finish it myself
I would make sure that the people I hire to finish the job for
me could do the job as good as I could or better than me and
I wouldn't settle for anything less. NEVER would I consider tearing it
all down only to start over.

That's insane!!!!

Re: The case against Cowher
 

[quote=redsk1;405092]Oh, I agree w/ you that I think Dan S can talk a good game. Marty said he'd never come here and he did. I was making the point that his friend and mentor Marty S came here w/ and it couldn't work/didn't work b/c of lack of control. I've got to think Cowher would know this and use it as an example.

With all that, it would not be surprising to see Dan S lure Cowher here.[/quote]

True, you'd think Cowher would think it through & look at the Danny's track record & his involvement in decisions. Maybe that's enough to keep him at home this year. He could be swayed by the $ though, and that's what I fear. Just like players that are out to get paid, we don't want a coach that's primarily motivated to come here by the salary.

On a side note, if you're Bill Cowher & you really mean what you say about not coaching in 08, when do you say that publicly in front of a camera? I would think soon, unless of course there's a possibility that you could be talked into coaching in 08.

Re: The case against Cowher
 

[quote=RFKRat;405091]I'm suprised cause if Williams was the next hire, I figure that would have been part of the press conference yesterday. If his (Snyder's) mind is made up, why wait? I think it's obvious he's looking outside the team first.

Honestly, I'd be fine if they blew the team up and started over with Cowher or someone else. It's not like we're breaking up the 1989 49ers here. One playoff win in four years under Gibbs, etc? What chemistry, etc are people afraid of upsetting? The mediocrity, the losses, the barely scraping into the playoffs twice only to be bounced out just as fast? I will always love and respect Gibbs and his staff but it got old about 3 years ago seeing him and Bugle and Williams, etc with the constant "well we fought hard" and the "boys gave it their all", etc....same tired press conferences after the same tired losses, breakdowns on offense, defense....

I say blast em up and bring someone else in....although without a GM I don't think anyone will be successful here.[/quote]

There's a lot I could say to disagree w/all you've said, but to keep it short; if it "got old" in Gibbs II, keep in mind that he got the team to the playoffs in the last 4 years twice as much as the team managed to while he was gone from 93-04.

Re: The case against Cowher
 

I wouldn't really mind if Bill Cowher were our head coach, the guy's accomplishments speak for themselves! GW was a head coach before guys lets not forget. I don't think it would be living in the past of we hired Cowher, I think marty was in it for the check when he was here. Somehow Cowher doesn't seem like that type of guy, I don't know how that would work with al saunders upstairs or if it would. Or how bout cowher for defensive coordinator and then GW for head coach?

I really think cowher would probably be a good fit for the skins, His offense's when it came to passing was decent, but yeah we gotta protect JC better, actually no matter who it is JC or TC we need to protect them better one's your qb of the future, and the other is a old guy nearing the end of his career. But guys other than Cowher lets not forget that their are alot of people out there that could be in line for this job. Remember Brian Billick is in the area and he is probably looking for a job, I really don't wanna see Pete leave USC but what if snyder persues him? Who else is in line for this job?

Re: The case against Cowher
 

[quote=freddyg12;405128]There's a lot I could say to disagree w/all you've said, but to keep it short; if it "got old" in Gibbs II, keep in mind that he got the team to the playoffs in the last 4 years twice as much as the team managed to while he was gone from 93-04.[/quote]
Amen the only one who came close to success after Joe was Norv Turner!

Re: The case against Cowher
 

Anything could happen of course, but I'm starting to sway to the side that says Cowher is not coming here.

1) At this point Cowher has been pretty unwavering in saying that he is taking 2 years off and will consider returning in 2009. Yes money talks, but that money is going to be there for him whether it's 2008 or 2009.

2) Cowher comes from the Marty coaching tree, so he would undoubtedly consult with Marty at some point in regard to Snyder and the Redskins job. Yes Marty and Snyder from all reports have patched things up since he left, but I'm sure Marty would have some valuable insight to offer Cowher.

3) If Cowher really wants 100% control, I just don't see Snyder backing off at this point. Ultimately that's what lead to Marty getting canned.

4) If Gibbs is in Snyder's ear regarding the next coach, you would have to think Gibbs would be in favor of as little change as possible so that means hiring from within, which means Gregg Williams.

Of course this could all be out the window in the blink of an eye. I admit that Gibbs leaving caught me off guard so how much do I really know? :cheeky-sm

Re: The case against Cowher
 

Cowher would be another overpaid Marty. Have a great record during the season and choke in the playoffs and CONSERVATIVE play calling. No thanks!! I hope Snyder proves JLC and NFL executives who believe that he will hired as HC wrong. He has to hire GW or all this stuff I've learned from Joe Gibbs the last 4 years is just BS.

Re: The case against Cowher
 

Cowher is like Schottenheimer except that Marty is a hell of a lot smarter than Cowher is.

Hire Williams please. If you hire an outsider he'll break up the team and it will be back to 6-10. Then if we're lucky, we'll back to 9-7 by 2010.