Are the Changes really an improvement???
 

I keep thinking of giving Snyder the benefit of the doubt, but then I break it down to it's most critical elements:

1. Is Fossil/new coach > than Gibbs? Not in a million years
2. Is Blache > Williams? No way
3. Is Zorn > Saunders? Not now, Zorn is not proven as an OC.

On paper it does not seem that we have improved our coaching ranks. Having said that, there are no head coaches out there that compare favorably with Gibbs, closets is Coward {sp}. Hence, once Gibbs retired, there was going to be a drop off in that position no matter what.

However, there didn't have to be a drop off in the other 2 critical coaching positions.

my 2 cents

Re: Are the Changes really an improvement???
 

you probably should change your avatar

Re: Are the Changes really an improvement???
 

It remains to be seen. I'll be perfectly content to at least give whatever changes being implemented an opportunity to have a case made for it, right now any argument pro, or con would be pure conjecture. Let's give it all a chance to develop and see what transpires.

Re: Are the Changes really an improvement???
 

[QUOTE=lifetimeskin;413819]I keep thinking of giving Snyder the benefit of the doubt, but then I break it down to it's most critical elements:

1. Is Fossil/new coach > than Gibbs? Not in a million years
2. Is Blache > Williams? No way
3. Is Zorn > Saunders? Not now, Zorn is not proven as an OC.

On paper it does not seem that we have improved our coaching ranks. Having said that, there are no head coaches out there that compare favorably with Gibbs, closets is Coward {sp}. Hence, once Gibbs retired, there was going to be a drop off in that position no matter what.

However, there didn't have to be a drop off in the other 2 critical coaching positions.

my 2 cents[/QUOTE]

well...
Gibbs retired so we sorta, kinda HAD to replace him.

Re: Are the Changes really an improvement???
 

[QUOTE=lifetimeskin;413819]I keep thinking of giving Snyder the benefit of the doubt, but then I break it down to it's most critical elements:

1. Is Fossil/new coach > than Gibbs? Not in a million years
2. Is Blache > Williams? No way
3. Is Zorn > Saunders? Not now, Zorn is not proven as an OC.

On paper it does not seem that we have improved our coaching ranks. Having said that, there are no head coaches out there that compare favorably with Gibbs, closets is Coward {sp}. Hence, once Gibbs retired, there was going to be a drop off in that position no matter what.

However, there didn't have to be a drop off in the other 2 critical coaching positions.

my 2 cents[/QUOTE]

I agree with you completely.
The positive is this....what is on paper for the skins never translates well...(mostly coaches and stars not panning out)
Perhaps hiring lesser coaches on paper will actually become a benefit in reality

Re: Are the Changes really an improvement???
 

[QUOTE=lifetimeskin;413819]I keep thinking of giving Snyder the benefit of the doubt, but then I break it down to it's most critical elements:

1. Is Fossil/new coach > than Gibbs? Not in a million years
2. Is Blache > Williams? No way
3. Is Zorn > Saunders? Not now, Zorn is not proven as an OC.

On paper it does not seem that we have improved our coaching ranks. Having said that, there are no head coaches out there that compare favorably with Gibbs, closets is Coward {sp}. Hence, once Gibbs retired, there was going to be a drop off in that position no matter what.

However, there didn't have to be a drop off in the other 2 critical coaching positions.

my 2 cents[/QUOTE]

Well, it's not like we had any choice in the matter of having to hire a new head coach seeing as how Joe Gibbs retired. However, by your logic, is/was Williams > Gibbs? Nope.
Blache > Williams? Probably not, but Blache does get part of the credit for turning the defense around.
Zorn > Saunders? Looking at Saunders' total body of work, no at this point. Of course, we don't know what Zorn can do for us at the OC position, but we DO know what he can do for quarterbacks. Comparing them by just judging Saunders on what he's done in Washington, there wouldn't be much to improve on, so that's why the Zorn move was a good one.

Re: Are the Changes really an improvement???
 

No but I don't see that many other options right now.

Re: Are the Changes really an improvement???
 

The best option would have been to promote Williams to HC, keep Al to continue progressing Jason Campbell, thus maintaining offensive and defensive continuity. The defense will be roughly the same with Blache, but with a new offense and new terminology, don't be surprised to see Campbell stagnate for another year or two. Asking a young QB to master 3 offenses in 4 years is no way to groom a franchise QB.

Re: Are the Changes really an improvement???
 

[QUOTE=SouperMeister;414001]The best option would have been to promote Williams to HC, keep Al to continue progressing Jason Campbell, thus maintaining offensive and defensive continuity. The defense will be roughly the same with Blache, but with a new offense and new terminology, don't be surprised to see Campbell stagnate for another year or two. Asking a young QB to master 3 offenses in 4 years is no way to groom a franchise QB.[/QUOTE]


Without a doubt there are many who share in your sentiment (including me) but the time has come to move on. Williams is gone, Saunders is gone, and that which is past and gone is irrevocable........Remember everything must change. In time, the changes could all prove to be for the better.

Re: Are the Changes really an improvement???
 

[quote=Longtimefan;414007]Without a doubt there are many who share in your sentiment (including me) but the time has come to move on. Williams is gone, Saunders is gone, and that which is past and gone is irrevocable........Remember everything must change. In time, the changes could all prove to be for the better.[/quote]With the firings of this past weekend, I cannot believe that Snyder gave guidance from Gibbs any credence. That's what I find most disappointing. Gibbs knew the pulse of this team better than anyone.

Re: Are the Changes really an improvement???
 

[QUOTE=SouperMeister;414012]With the firings of this past weekend, I cannot believe that Snyder gave guidance from Gibbs any credence. That's what I find most disappointing. Gibbs knew the pulse of this team better than anyone.[/QUOTE]

Well how do you know he didn't give Gibbs' guidance any credence?

Re: Are the Changes really an improvement???
 

[QUOTE=SouperMeister;414012]With the firings of this past weekend, I cannot believe that Snyder gave guidance from Gibbs any credence. That's what I find most disappointing. Gibbs knew the pulse of this team better than anyone.[/QUOTE]


I think many of us were disappointed with the way both Williams and Saunders were uncerimoniously released, it wreaked with disrespect as well as unappreciation. One would think they both would have been shown a little more common courtesy.

Re: Are the Changes really an improvement???
 

[quote=SmootSmack;414014]Well how do you know he didn't give Gibbs' guidance any credence?[/quote]Why would Gibbs have asked Williams to remain in the hunt last week when Williams was ready to pull out when Fassel emerged as the leading candidate? That to me says that Gibbs advised Snyder that his first choice to succeed him was Williams. That's not just reading between the lines, that's commons sense.

Re: Are the Changes really an improvement???
 

I do think zorn's offense will help JC more, its similar to what he ran at Auburn so thats a good thing for JC. I don't think he was ever gonna be a "STAR" in the saunders system. As for Fassel not fossil he has a winning record and has gone to a SB with kerry collins!!!

Re: Are the Changes really an improvement???
 

[QUOTE=SouperMeister;414024]Why would Gibbs have asked Williams to remain in the hunt last week when Williams was ready to pull out when Fassel emerged as the leading candidate? That to me says that Gibbs advised Snyder that his first choice to succeed him was Williams. That's not just reading between the lines, that's commons sense.[/QUOTE]

Yeah I agree that Gibbs apparently wanted Williams to succeed him, and that obviously isn't happening now. But I don't think it's fair to any of the parties involved to assume that's all Gibbs suggested.

For all we know, he also said:

-Someone needs to succeed Williams and I think Blache deserves it
-Olivadotti's contract is up. The players like him, let's make sure he gets an extension
-Scott Campbell has done a really good job scouting college players the last few years. He should be promoted

And so on. Incidentally, all of the above speaks to "continuity" I mean, I'm not saying this is what happened necessarily. But I don't think we should limit the whole conversation to what happened with Williams.

Re: Are the Changes really an improvement???
 

Williams got screwed, plain and simple. When the Redskins go to the SuperBowl because of these changes, I will change my opinion. Right now I believe that we are behind the power curve for at least 4 more seasons. At least alcohol is still being served in the DMV, I cannot imagine football season without it right now.

Re: Are the Changes really an improvement???
 

I was trying to avoid an emotional filled thread, however it seems the Snyder inflicted wounds are still open.

There is a second part to all this--- the PR image of the Redskins.


Gibbs did more for Danny's public image in 4 years than Danny did for himself in 40. Gibbs gave Danny all the positive accolades, if anything went wrong, Gibbs took the hit. However, whatever good will Gibbs built in terms of PR for Danny, Danny has erased in less than one month. This really should be a case study in a Coomunications class.

-Snyder misled the skins fan's with his "continuity" comment. If by it he meant, F.O. continuity, basically he and Cerrato, then it is still misleading.

-If he knew after 4 interviews that Gregg was not his man, then release him right then and there. There was no reason to keep him around for an additional 10 days. Bad PR move, Gregg is well liked.

- Keeping coaches in the dark while at the Senior Bowl, is disgraceful. From a personnel point of view, 1)does he really believe they will go the extra mile??? 2) Does he believe that those coaches are not spending time lining up interviews for themselves? There are about 10 coaches that still don't know their future (or at least it has been reported). I am pretty darn sure that Zorn will want to make some changes, make them now, let theses fellas out of limbo. Another disgraceful PR move.

There is one PR move that Danny can make to salvage this whole disgrace. Russ Grimm. I have read in other threads, where he still could be a candidate. Russ Grimm from a PR perspective would be a huge step in righing the PR ship. However, since Zorn and Blache have already been selected as OC/DC and Grimm has not been interviewed, then I am pretty darn sure Danny will strike out here as well.

Re: Are the Changes really an improvement???
 

[QUOTE=lifetimeskin;414106]I the PR image of the Redskins.

There is one PR move that Danny can make to salvage this whole disgrace. Russ Grimm. [/QUOTE]

I agree completely that Danny totally screwed up....and a marketing guru making such basic PR mistakes....

This only points to one thing....its not that he doesn't know better....its because he doesn't care...thats why so many fans have a problem with him.

And.
I do like your Russ Grimm idea as head coach...but if that were the case, they'd probably keep Williams and Saunders and they are now gone.

Just wild 09 speculation here but....in the future if we go after defensive minded Cowher...don't be suprised if they try to get Grimm to come over too.
(though I know we may need to compensate the cards)

Re: Are the Changes really an improvement???
 

[quote=lifetimeskin;414106]I was trying to avoid an emotional filled thread, however it seems the Snyder inflicted wounds are still open.

There is a second part to all this--- the PR image of the Redskins.


Gibbs did more for Danny's public image in 4 years than Danny did for himself in 40. Gibbs gave Danny all the positive accolades, if anything went wrong, Gibbs took the hit. However, whatever good will Gibbs built in terms of PR for Danny, Danny has erased in less than one month. This really should be a case study in a Coomunications class.

-[B]Snyder misled the skins fan's with his "continuity" comment. If by it he meant, F.O. continuity, basically he and Cerrato, then it is still misleading.[/B]

-If he knew after 4 interviews that Gregg was not his man, then release him right then and there. There was no reason to keep him around for an additional 10 days. Bad PR move, Gregg is well liked.

- Keeping coaches in the dark while at the Senior Bowl, is disgraceful. From a personnel point of view, 1)does he really believe they will go the extra mile??? 2) Does he believe that those coaches are not spending time lining up interviews for themselves? There are about 10 coaches that still don't know their future (or at least it has been reported). I am pretty darn sure that Zorn will want to make some changes, make them now, let theses fellas out of limbo. Another disgraceful PR move.

There is one PR move that Danny can make to salvage this whole disgrace. Russ Grimm. I have read in other threads, where he still could be a candidate. Russ Grimm from a PR perspective would be a huge step in righing the PR ship. However, since Zorn and Blache have already been selected as OC/DC and Grimm has not been interviewed, then I am pretty darn sure Danny will strike out here as well.[/quote]

I don't necessarily agree. A good portion of the staff is returning and Blache was promoted. The staff was definitely not blown up. Maybe not what the fans had in mind... but I do think there will be a certain level of continuity carried over. Anytime you change head coaches there's going to be some change. In this case I think Snyder has done a good job at minimizing the change.

Re: Are the Changes really an improvement???
 

Are the changes really an improvement?

Isn't that kind of hard to judge when we haven't even played one down yet? I don't think we can judge anything until we play some ball.

Re: Are the Changes really an improvement???
 

Given that Snyder was thrown for a loop, he's going what he can to maintain some sort of stability and build towards the future.

Jim Zorn has done an excellent job developing Matt Hasselbeck, and can do the same for Jason Campbell. Greg Blache should be able to keep the status quo on defense.