Pierce's Happy Present Remains Clouded by Past
 

Antonio Pierce offers his views on the Redskins' organization:

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/01/31/AR2008013103478_pf.html]Pierce's Happy Present Remains Clouded by Past[/url]

Re: Pierce's Happy Present Remains Clouded by Past
 

He needs to just let it go. NFL is a tough business. People get cut, fired, traded. Just move on dude. Furthermore, the Redskins gave him his shot in the first place. How about some appreciation for that?

And I don't know what he means by Patriots having consistency. They've had a lot of turnover at the skill positions (minus QB) on both offense and defense. It's part of what's so impressive about them.

Everytime AP opens his mouth these days it seems it's to bash the Redskins. I liked him while he was here, wish we had kept him. But we didn't so he just deal with it.

Re: Pierce's Happy Present Remains Clouded by Past
 

You would think he was the first player ever to get cut by his original team before

Re: Pierce's Happy Present Remains Clouded by Past
 

It's the Redskin Fans that need to let it go ,he was hounded and turned down the question several times............he was a gentleman about it.:smashfrea


Now what he really said.........


PHOENIX -- New York Giants middle linebacker Antonio Pierce ducked and dodged the question like a polished politician Monday night.

He had been asked, rather simply, if he really was responsible for several teammates' wearing monotone black suits on their flight to Phoenix for Super Bowl XLII, and he wouldn't take credit.

"You have to wear a suit anyway, so we all decided it would be great for team unity," Pierce said, adding that at least 38 players on the Giants' 53-man roster followed through on the idea. "We had a couple of guys who didn't get the memo, but these things happen."

It's actually not surprising that Pierce wasn't eager to rush into the spotlight on this occasion. Sure, he's an outspoken leader on the Giants' defense, a brash seventh-year veteran with a flair for the well-timed quote. But he's also not overly concerned with how much recognition is coming his way. He'd rather keep his teammates focused on winning a championship and his defense sturdy enough to make that goal happen.
[IMG]http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2008/0129/nfl_u_lynch_200.jpg[/IMG]

Antonio Pierce

In many ways, veteran LB Antonio Pierce (58) is the heart and soul of the Giants' defense.

This, by the way, is what makes Pierce so important to the Giants' defense. It's also why his teammates are happy that he'll be the man making the defensive calls when they face the high-powered New England Patriots offense Sunday.

"Antonio has all the intangibles you want in a leader," Giants defensive end Michael Strahan said. "I might be the guy who's making the locker room speeches and yelling on the sidelines, but he's the one who people really listen to when he speaks. He has a calming effect on this defense when he's on the field. I always feel more comfortable knowing he's out there."

That impact has plenty to do with the expectations that Pierce has to live up to every time he takes the field. When he signed a free-agent deal with the Giants in 2005 -- he spent the first four years of his career in Washington -- he knew all about the Giants' heritage at linebacker. The dominance of Sam Huff. The versatility of Carl Banks. Heck, he walked past shrines to Hall of Famers Harry Carson and Lawrence Taylor every time he entered the Giants' locker room.

So far, Pierce has given those former New York stars plenty of reasons to believe he's continuing their proud tradition. Pierce led the Giants in tackles this season (103) and he had 137 stops in 2006. When he missed three games in 2005, teammates say, the Giants' defense suffered so much that opposing runners had no problems finding wide-open running lanes. And when the Giants started 0-2 this season, it was Pierce who helped revitalize a defense that has allowed more than 20 points to just two opponents since that time.

Pierce takes great pride in those numbers, along with the relationships he's built with former Giants greats. He talks with Carson every week and has had several conversations with other former New York linebackers, including his good friend and former Redskins teammate Jessie Armstead.

"I've had a chance to meet guys like Carson, Brad Van Pelt and a whole bunch of other guys who are always on the sidelines for games," Pierce said. "When I came here, I knew what it was going to be like. I wear Carl Banks' old number [58]. You can't wear a number like that on this team unless you expect to do great things."

The Giants all believe Pierce filled an important void on their defense when he arrived three seasons ago. When Armstead left the team following the 2001 season, the Giants lost one of their most respected leaders on defense. Then linebacker Mike Barrow signed with Washington in 2004, and another strong voice had vanished from the defense that led New York to Super Bowl XXXV.

Now that the Giants are playing for the title again, Pierce is stressing the same sense of urgency among his teammates that those other players emphasized seven years ago.

What he also understands is that the Giants' defensive success will hinge largely on the moves he makes as the quarterback of the defense.

"[New England quarterback] Tom Brady is very poised when he leaves the huddle and comes to the line of scrimmage," Pierce said. "He doesn't show you a lot, so it's my job to make sure the defense gets into the right positions. It's like a chess game out there."

It's also a chess game the Giants didn't handle well in the second half of their first meeting with New England. What irritates Pierce the most about the 38-35 loss to the Patriots on Dec. 29 is the 12-point lead the Giants blew. New York had a perfect opportunity to ruin New England's hopes for an undefeated season. Instead, the Giants let that moment slip away as Brady and Randy Moss proved why the Patriots are so tough to beat in the first place.

This time around, Pierce is seeking a much different outcome. As he said, "We're not trying to be a feel-good story here. We're trying to take the [Lombardi Trophy] back to New York with us."

Right now, it's hard to know whether the Giants really are good enough to pull one of the biggest upsets in Super Bowl history. What is clear, however, is that Pierce will be a major factor in any success they have on Sunday.

Re: Pierce's Happy Present Remains Clouded by Past
 

I have no Quams with AP, and in fact support many of his observations. I didn't want him to leave and couldn't understand why we did (let him). He says that we have no stability, and we do not. He has moved on, but still has heart for the team that drafted him. To him, like all of us, it is confusing to understand why the things that have taken place have.

IMO Pierce would have stayed in Washington for less than he was offered in NY. We would also be a better team if we kept the continuity of the coaching staff around for longer. Yes, every team struggles through a personnell turnover stand point every year, but it is the stability among the head guys that creates a dynasty. Case and point, everyone loves Joe Gibbs. He is the only coach able to win the SB with 3 different QB's. You can play it down as much as you want, but he is still the only one to do it. Why? Because he had some sort of coaching stability during his tenure. Now we are back to square 1 where continuity is lost.

Re: Pierce's Happy Present Remains Clouded by Past
 

[QUOTE=Giantone;415983]It's the Redskin Fans that need to let it go ,he was hounded and turned down the question several times............he was a gentleman about it.:smashfrea


Now what he really said.........


PHOENIX -- New York Giants middle linebacker Antonio Pierce ducked and dodged the question like a polished politician Monday night.

He had been asked, rather simply, if he really was responsible for several teammates' wearing monotone black suits on their flight to Phoenix for Super Bowl XLII, and he wouldn't take credit.

"You have to wear a suit anyway, so we all decided it would be great for team unity," Pierce said, adding that at least 38 players on the Giants' 53-man roster followed through on the idea. "We had a couple of guys who didn't get the memo, but these things happen."

It's actually not surprising that Pierce wasn't eager to rush into the spotlight on this occasion. Sure, he's an outspoken leader on the Giants' defense, a brash seventh-year veteran with a flair for the well-timed quote. But he's also not overly concerned with how much recognition is coming his way. He'd rather keep his teammates focused on winning a championship and his defense sturdy enough to make that goal happen.
[IMG]http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2008/0129/nfl_u_lynch_200.jpg[/IMG]

Antonio Pierce

In many ways, veteran LB Antonio Pierce (58) is the heart and soul of the Giants' defense.

This, by the way, is what makes Pierce so important to the Giants' defense. It's also why his teammates are happy that he'll be the man making the defensive calls when they face the high-powered New England Patriots offense Sunday.

"Antonio has all the intangibles you want in a leader," Giants defensive end Michael Strahan said. "I might be the guy who's making the locker room speeches and yelling on the sidelines, but he's the one who people really listen to when he speaks. He has a calming effect on this defense when he's on the field. I always feel more comfortable knowing he's out there."

That impact has plenty to do with the expectations that Pierce has to live up to every time he takes the field. When he signed a free-agent deal with the Giants in 2005 -- he spent the first four years of his career in Washington -- he knew all about the Giants' heritage at linebacker. The dominance of Sam Huff. The versatility of Carl Banks. Heck, he walked past shrines to Hall of Famers Harry Carson and Lawrence Taylor every time he entered the Giants' locker room.

So far, Pierce has given those former New York stars plenty of reasons to believe he's continuing their proud tradition. Pierce led the Giants in tackles this season (103) and he had 137 stops in 2006. When he missed three games in 2005, teammates say, the Giants' defense suffered so much that opposing runners had no problems finding wide-open running lanes. And when the Giants started 0-2 this season, it was Pierce who helped revitalize a defense that has allowed more than 20 points to just two opponents since that time.

Pierce takes great pride in those numbers, along with the relationships he's built with former Giants greats. He talks with Carson every week and has had several conversations with other former New York linebackers, including his good friend and former Redskins teammate Jessie Armstead.

"I've had a chance to meet guys like Carson, Brad Van Pelt and a whole bunch of other guys who are always on the sidelines for games," Pierce said. "When I came here, I knew what it was going to be like. I wear Carl Banks' old number [58]. You can't wear a number like that on this team unless you expect to do great things."

The Giants all believe Pierce filled an important void on their defense when he arrived three seasons ago. When Armstead left the team following the 2001 season, the Giants lost one of their most respected leaders on defense. Then linebacker Mike Barrow signed with Washington in 2004, and another strong voice had vanished from the defense that led New York to Super Bowl XXXV.

Now that the Giants are playing for the title again, Pierce is stressing the same sense of urgency among his teammates that those other players emphasized seven years ago.

What he also understands is that the Giants' defensive success will hinge largely on the moves he makes as the quarterback of the defense.

"[New England quarterback] Tom Brady is very poised when he leaves the huddle and comes to the line of scrimmage," Pierce said. "He doesn't show you a lot, so it's my job to make sure the defense gets into the right positions. It's like a chess game out there."

It's also a chess game the Giants didn't handle well in the second half of their first meeting with New England. What irritates Pierce the most about the 38-35 loss to the Patriots on Dec. 29 is the 12-point lead the Giants blew. New York had a perfect opportunity to ruin New England's hopes for an undefeated season. Instead, the Giants let that moment slip away as Brady and Randy Moss proved why the Patriots are so tough to beat in the first place.

This time around, Pierce is seeking a much different outcome. As he said, "We're not trying to be a feel-good story here. We're trying to take the [Lombardi Trophy] back to New York with us."

Right now, it's hard to know whether the Giants really are good enough to pull one of the biggest upsets in Super Bowl history. What is clear, however, is that Pierce will be a major factor in any success they have on Sunday.[/QUOTE]

I'm not seeing what this article has to do with anything. We all wish him well but think he needs to get over the Redskins letting him go. If you are saying that he doesn't dwell on that you are wrong. Very wrong. He does - he talks about it all the time. If you posted this article to suggest he's a good guy - we know, we like him, he's great, wish he was still here. Just think he needs to be a bit more professional when it comes to badmouthing our team.....all the time. It's the NFL and guys get cut.

Re: Pierce's Happy Present Remains Clouded by Past
 

I've got nothing against Pierce, but he just needs to get over it. Every time he gets in front of a camera he's got something to say. Move on dude. You got your money. You claim to be happy. What's the point?

Re: Pierce's Happy Present Remains Clouded by Past
 

Im sure if every player cut by the team were interviewed at least half (maybe more) would say something along those lines. Not a big deal to me.

Re: Pierce's Happy Present Remains Clouded by Past
 

I can't disagree with anything Antonio said.

Re: Pierce's Happy Present Remains Clouded by Past
 

Ugh get over it dude.

Re: Pierce's Happy Present Remains Clouded by Past
 

[quote=SmootSmack;415978]He needs to just let it go. NFL is a tough business. People get cut, fired, traded. Just move on dude. Furthermore, the Redskins gave him his shot in the first place. How about some appreciation for that?

And I don't know what he means by Patriots having consistency. They've had a lot of turnover at the skill positions (minus QB) on both offense and defense. It's part of what's so impressive about them.

Everytime AP opens his mouth these days it seems it's to bash the Redskins. I liked him while he was here, wish we had kept him. But we didn't so he just deal with it.[/quote]


I dont think he was referring to the player turnover. I think he was referring to the coaching turnover. The patriots have had the same coaches in place for years, other than the two that went on to be head coaches, but they had guys just move up that were all ready in the organization. I dont think he is bad mouthing them, he said he still respects snyder, he just questions the front office on how they do things, which is not something new. every player that leaves this team says the same things, so no one should be surprised by this.

Re: Pierce's Happy Present Remains Clouded by Past
 

I have no clue why Pierce felt so disrespected by the organization since, even according to Pierce, the Redskins ultimately offered him essentially the same contract the Giants did. If he had a problem with the Redskins initial offer, he should grow up and realize that business is business and lowballing/highballing is a part of business negotiations.

That said, Pierce is not alone in his sentiments. Guys like Arrington, Coles, and Bailey appear to have a similar view of the Redskins. I'm no Snyder-basher, but it's undeniable that Snyder can be very vindictive, to the point of acting like a child. It's also undeniable that Snyder was running the franchise like a fantasy team when he first came into the league. Unfortunately, first impressions mean a lot. Snyder developed a bad reputation and although he has improved over the years and is not the sole source of the Redskins woes, he's also done and said things that feed the erroneous perception that he is a grade A a-hole and poor owner.

Re: Pierce's Happy Present Remains Clouded by Past
 

Pierce is like a guy who gets married but keeps talking about an old girlfriend. Get over it bro. We've moved on, so should you.

Re: Pierce's Happy Present Remains Clouded by Past
 

Every skins fan wanted to keep him and I think at this point the Redskins themselves acknowledge that they should have kept him. It's time for AP to move on with his life...

Re: Pierce's Happy Present Remains Clouded by Past
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;416028]I have no clue why Pierce felt so disrespected by the organization since, even according to Pierce, the Redskins ultimately offered him essentially the same contract the Giants did. If he had a problem with the Redskins initial offer, he should grow up and realize that business is business and lowballing/highballing is a part of business negotiations.

That said, Pierce is not alone in his sentiments. Guys like Arrington, Coles, and Bailey appear to have a similar view of the Redskins. I'm no Snyder-basher, but it's undeniable that Snyder can be very vindictive, to the point of acting like a child. It's also undeniable that Snyder was running the franchise like a fantasy team when he first came into the league. Unfortunately, first impressions mean a lot. Snyder developed a bad reputation and [B]although he has improved over the years and is not the sole source of the Redskins woes[/B], he's also done and said things that feed the erroneous perception that he is a grade A a-hole and poor owner.[/quote]

SGG - I agree with you. I just hope that with Gibbs gone that Synder does not reverse and get back to his old ways. Let Vinny do his job and get out of the way. If the Redskins fail than it is on Vinny's shoulders and he can take the blame. Also, lets hope Synder can keep whatever staff he assembles together for the next 5 years - especially the offensive side for Jason Campbells sake!

Player movement is common in the NFL - I believe it is something like 25% turnover occurs annually. So I think AP has a point on the stability of the FO and coaching helping with players.

Re: Pierce's Happy Present Remains Clouded by Past
 

AP's last year here was awesome with the way he barked orders at the line of scrimmage getting everyone in the proper place. good luck in the big dance AP!

Re: Pierce's Happy Present Remains Clouded by Past
 

GiantOne.....you really do need to get over it.....I can't wait to see that Eli face on sunday....the one he makes after he throws an INT, the one that looks kind of like this->:(..ha

Re: Pierce's Happy Present Remains Clouded by Past
 

[quote=SkinsTerps424;416194]GiantOne.....you really do need to get over it.....I can't wait to see that Eli face on sunday....the one he makes after he throws an INT, the one that looks kind of like this->:(..ha[/quote]That does kind of look like him.

Re: Pierce's Happy Present Remains Clouded by Past
 

[quote=angryssg;415989]I have no Quams with AP, and in fact support many of his observations. I didn't want him to leave and couldn't understand why we did (let him). He says that we have no stability, and we do not. He has moved on, but still has heart for the team that drafted him. To him, like all of us, it is confusing to understand why the things that have taken place have.

[B]IMO Pierce would have stayed in Washington for less than he was offered in NY.[/B] We would also be a better team if we kept the continuity of the coaching staff around for longer. Yes, every team struggles through a personnell turnover stand point every year, but it is the stability among the head guys that creates a dynasty. Case and point, everyone loves Joe Gibbs. He is the only coach able to win the SB with 3 different QB's. You can play it down as much as you want, but he is still the only one to do it. Why? Because he had some sort of coaching stability during his tenure. Now we are back to square 1 where continuity is lost.[/quote]

Gibbs got him to agree to let the skins match the offer before he signed w/NY. They declined to do so & he went to NY.

I think a part of him still regrets that he made the decision on $ & respect. He felt slighted that we didn't match the giants offer so on principle left. It was part of Gibbs learning curve as team prez. This was also a big mistake of GW who underestimated his impact IMO.

I wish he'd never left, but as has been said we've moved on. It does at least say something positive about the team & his experience here, that he still is resentful. If he didn't like it here he wouldn't talk about it in the way he does. Same for Smoot he came back as soon as he could. That says that some guys do have good experiences in DC, it's not just the Coles & Lavars that define this team.

Re: Pierce's Happy Present Remains Clouded by Past
 

[QUOTE=celts32;416032]Every skins fan wanted to keep him and I think at this point the Redskins themselves acknowledge that they should have kept him. It's time for AP to move on with his life...[/QUOTE]


It could be part of the reason why he takes his shots at the FO when the opportunity arises. He realizes he was popular with the fan base, and was peturbed at the way he was let go. I do however think he should get over it and move on with his career. That which is past and gone............

Re: Pierce's Happy Present Remains Clouded by Past
 

[quote=SkinsTerps424;416194]GiantOne.....you really do need to get over it.....I can't wait to see that Eli face on sunday....the one he makes after he throws an INT, the one that looks kind of like this->:(..ha[/quote]

Did'nt you say that once before,about Tampa,Dallas and Greenbay?

Re: Pierce's Happy Present Remains Clouded by Past
 

he is a traiter. i think we should... well i dont need to tell you we should do to him

Re: Pierce's Happy Present Remains Clouded by Past
 

[quote=bigm29;416227]he is a traiter. i think we should... well i dont need to tell you we should do to him[/quote]


LOL.....................really.why?

ignore this

Re: Pierce's Happy Present Remains Clouded by Past
 

[quote=Giantone;416310]LOL.....................really.why?[/quote]

Im just kiddin around but yeah he should have been loyal to the team that gave him a shot and basically made him as a player. Oh and sorry for flippin out on you that one time i think i was pissed after a loss or something i just never ocould understand y fans of other teams post here. Especially when your teams about to play in the super bowl. Why do you give a crap what redskins fans are talking about?? not trying to start anything just boggles my mind.. im a curious guy

Re: Pierce's Happy Present Remains Clouded by Past
 

all is good................:food-smil

Re: Pierce's Happy Present Remains Clouded by Past
 

Pierce is abosolutely right about Snyder and the way he does business. He acts like this is a damn board game or some shit. How many coaches has snyder gone through in his days as redskins? Like 6? More? He's a fool and i dont think we will be in the superbowl until he is gone...

Re: Pierce's Happy Present Remains Clouded by Past
 

I predict he wins the games MVP today.

Re: Pierce's Happy Present Remains Clouded by Past
 

I'm thinking either OSI....................or Eli.

Re: Pierce's Happy Present Remains Clouded by Past
 

Not to harp on this but since Antonio Pierce won't let it go...

"After the crowd at Giants Stadium greeted Spagnuolo with an impressive ovation, the chants turned to "Redskins suck!" in large part orchestrated by linebacker Antonio Pierce, who stuck his hands to his ears, imploring the crowd to get louder"

[url=http://blogs.nypost.com/sports/giants/archives/2008/02/spagnuolo_seren.html]Giants Blog[/url]

What's his problem? So the team that gave him his break into the NFL didn't keep him here. Get over it already. You just won a Super Bowl and your first thought is to lead a chant against a team that really had nothing to do with you guys winning it all? And I know people will say well the chant was precipitated by the fact that Spags is interviewing for the Redskins HC job. But to read that Pierce was the main motivator behind the chants just tells me that he has to seriously grow up.

Re: Pierce's Happy Present Remains Clouded by Past
 

I dont get how this guy can still be bitter, it's really a shame that he hasn't moved on.

Re: Pierce's Happy Present Remains Clouded by Past
 

[quote=GreekSkin;418099]I dont get how this guy can still be bitter, it's really a shame that he hasn't moved on.[/quote]



Look in a mirror,this is a old thread and you start it up again,move on.

Re: Pierce's Happy Present Remains Clouded by Past
 

look at the post before mine, I didnt start anything up again I was just replying to what SmootSmack posted (at 2 am [B]today[/B])

Re: Pierce's Happy Present Remains Clouded by Past
 

Yeah don't call out GreekSkin. I was the one who reluctantly brought the thread up again.

Re: Pierce's Happy Present Remains Clouded by Past
 

AP reportedly lead the NY crowd yesterday with 'Redskins suck' chants. He needs to get a life.

Re: Pierce's Happy Present Remains Clouded by Past
 

like the song ,don,t worry be happy...... move on AP you have your glory now ..enjoy it...

Re: Pierce's Happy Present Remains Clouded by Past
 

In hindsght it was definitely a mistake letting Pierce go. However, a few facts:

1) Pierce was an undrafted FA. The Redskins were the only team that gave him a chance as a WALK ON. He had minimal playing time before Mike Barrow got injured and forced Pierce in to the starting lineup.

2) The Redskins wanted to keep Pierce. Here is an article from December of 2004 on the negotiations to that time:

Redskins working on keeping Pierce
Jody Foldesy, THE WASHINGTON TIMES
December 16, 2004

The Washington Redskins are deep in negotiations on a multi-year contract extension for middle linebacker Antonio Pierce and could complete a deal in coming days, sources familiar with the situation said yesterday.

The sides have exchanged four proposals since coach Joe Gibbs approached Pierce in early November, apparently during the week of the Nov.7 game against the Detroit Lions. Pierce, 26, is scheduled to be first-time unrestricted free agent this spring.

Pierce's deal likely would be for four or five years. Further details were unclear, though it appeared Pierce was seeking a signing bonus in the $5million to $6million range.

Such a contract would have been unimaginable before the season, when Pierce opted to return to Washington for the one-year tender amount for a restricted free agent.
____________ _________ _________ _________ _________

3) After Pierce got his offer from the vagiants, the Redskins did want to match it, but felt his vaggie deal (five years, $26 million with $6 million SB) was too high too match.

Now, obviously, this was a mistake. But at the time Gibbs said they felt it was paying too much for Pierce when the year before they only gave Marcus Washington a $24 million contract.

Bottom line for me: Pierce took the money and ran. He didn't give a crap about the Redskins - the only team that gave his undrafted ass a chance after he played two glorious years of football at the powerhouse Mount San Antonio College in Walnut, California ( he did transfer to Univ of Arizona).

So it really PISSES me off to hear pierce mouth off about how the Redskins "screwed him." We wanted to resign him - but he wanted mo money. He didn't care one bit about the Redskins - he took off for more money the first damn chance he had.

So yea, we probably should have made some more cap space for him. But let's be honest: If he came back to Gibbs and said, "Coach, I want to be a Redskin. How close to this deal can you get?" Gibbs would have done a $23 million deal for him. And he would still be a Redskin.

Bottom line: He left us. By listening to Pierce talk you would think we traded him for a pack of smokes.

F you Pierce

[url=http://www.OntheRAC.com]On the RAC: Redskins Appreciation Club, the Humurous Redskins' Fan Site.[/url]

Re: Pierce's Happy Present Remains Clouded by Past
 

[quote=Giantone;418101]Look in a mirror,this is a old thread and you start it up again,move on.[/quote]

WTF?!?!

You are a Giants fan on a Redskins board, what gives you the right to dictate forum discussion here? The mods here seem to appreciate your contributions, but If anyone should move on it is you... Don't you have your own friends to chat with re: your recent SB win instead of hanging out here?

Re: Pierce's Happy Present Remains Clouded by Past
 

[quote=birdz4gibbs;418265]like the song ,don,t worry be happy...... move on AP you have your glory now ..enjoy it...[/quote]

Yea, AP needs to move on. The skins gave him a shot after being an undrafted FA, i believe. He played well and the skins suddenly b/came money conscious when they didn't match NY's deal, but hey...whether we like it or not, that's the NFL. He should be thankful of the opportunities that the skins gave him and move on. If anything NY fans should be upset b/c it seems like he'd rather be in DC. He keeps talking about it.

I'm now done w/ the AP thing...i'm moving on.

Re: Pierce's Happy Present Remains Clouded by Past
 

[quote=SmootSmack;418114]Yeah don't call out GreekSkin. I was the one who reluctantly brought the thread up again.[/quote]


Ok, I apologize but everyone needs to get over it.....it's a non story.