why does congress want to look into"spygate"?
 

i think arlen"father of the single bullett theory"specter is either just grandstanding,or looking at more ways to piss away taxpayer time and money on something that the government has no business messing around in.most of you guys live in dc or have been around it a lot.why the hell does aybody want to look into this anyhow?what intrest does the us government have in this???

Re: why does congress want to look into"spygate"?
 

Professional sports are granted monopoly exemptions by Congress. That is, many of their practices are legal only because Congress has given them special permission to do so.

Congress does this with the understanding that it is a necessary evil and that it won't be abused. If cheating is occurring that the NFL is aware of, but the NFL is turning a blind eye in order to protect its monopoly, Congress has an interest in that.

Re: why does congress want to look into"spygate"?
 

It's because he's an Eagles fan and he still hasn't gotten over the 05 Superbowl. That's seriously the only reason.

Re: why does congress want to look into"spygate"?
 

[quote=redskinsfanatic;420144]i think arlen"father of the single bullett theory"specter is either just grandstanding,or looking at more ways to piss away taxpayer time and money on something that the government has no business messing around in.most of you guys live in dc or have been around it a lot.why the hell does aybody want to look into this anyhow?what intrest does the us government have in this???[/quote]

cause they have nothing better to do.

Re: why does congress want to look into"spygate"?
 

The US government actually has a tremendous interest in this -- the NFL is granted an exemption from antitrust laws by Congress, and so for all intents and purposes the NFL as we know it operates only at the pleasure of the Congress. This exemption allows the NFL to negotiate game packages (ie NFL Sunday Ticket on DirecTV) that other regulated entities would never be allowed to negotiate, as well as set the standards for participation in the league (Maurice Clarett and Mike Williams come to mind -- I promise you the UA Pipefitters union can't place non-collectively bargained age limits on its workers).

Exemption from these laws is pretty much acts as a multi-billion dollar subsidy to the league by the US government. As a result, Congress has long asserted its right to monitor the sports leagues to ensure that they are being run fairly and for the benefit of the American public (see: baseball steroid hearings). This is also not the first time in recent memory that Arlen Specter has threatened the NFL's exemption; around a year ago he made the same threats based on the limited availability of the DrecTV Sunday Ticket package.

While in general I think Congress probably has "better" things to worry about, they really do have a pretty large interest in the way the NFL is operated. After all, if I was giving you special permission to run a sports league for free in my backyard, isn't in my interest (and within my authority) to make sure you're running it fairly?

Re: why does congress want to look into"spygate"?
 

What else is going on for them to spend time on? It's not like there's a pointless war going on or a flailing economy or record foreclosures going on.. Geez, some people are so clueless! ;)

Seriously though, if they were going to waste time on something frivolous, I wish it was spent on ending the writers strike earlier. Having to wait another year for '24' to come back is just un-damn-American!!

Re: why does congress want to look into"spygate"?
 

Congress has nothing better to do.

Re: why does congress want to look into"spygate"?
 

[QUOTE=amorentz;420159]The US government actually has a tremendous interest in this -- the NFL is granted an exemption from antitrust laws by Congress, and so for all intents and purposes the NFL as we know it operates only at the pleasure of the Congress. This exemption allows the NFL to negotiate game packages (ie NFL Sunday Ticket on DirecTV) that other regulated entities would never be allowed to negotiate, as well as set the standards for participation in the league (Maurice Clarett and Mike Williams come to mind -- I promise you the UA Pipefitters union can't place non-collectively bargained age limits on its workers).

Exemption from these laws is pretty much acts as a multi-billion dollar subsidy to the league by the US government. As a result, Congress has long asserted its right to monitor the sports leagues to ensure that they are being run fairly and for the benefit of the American public (see: baseball steroid hearings). This is also not the first time in recent memory that Arlen Specter has threatened the NFL's exemption; around a year ago he made the same threats based on the limited availability of the DrecTV Sunday Ticket package.

While in general I think Congress probably has "better" things to worry about, they really do have a pretty large interest in the way the NFL is operated. After all, if I was giving you special permission to run a sports league for free in my backyard, isn't in my interest (and within my authority) to make sure you're running it fairly?[/QUOTE]

Additionally, if the league is indeed hiding more information regarding "Spygate" then it is perpetrating fraud on the public. Because the government gives the NFL an antitrust exemption, it is their duty to enforce anti-fraud provisions. Otherwise, what we end up with is subsidized professional wrestling.

As an aside, one of the funny things about this site is that someone can post a great response such as the one quoted above that essentially answers the question in a logical manner, and a couple of responses latter we'll get the "because Congress is dumb" or "Congress has nothing better to do" arguments. While both statements may have a basis in reality, amorentz has pretty much hit the nail on the head here.

Re: why does congress want to look into"spygate"?
 

First off let me state that I think Arlen is an idiot. He's a crusader who thinks way too much of himself. Amorentz is completely right. Remember the USFL? They got a dollar from the NFL for "unfair monopolistic advantage."
The real concern of SPygate is the slippery slope or that there is more to the story that is being intentionally hidden. Usually evidence of a crime is kept and catalogued. If the Patriots wanted to appeal the decision that they lose a 1st round pick anytime before the draft (which, by law, is their right), there is now no evidence they ever did anything wrong.
The secondary concern is that the cheating was worse than Goodell and the Patriots are admitting. If it "significantly" helped them win Super Bowls and was against the self-regulated rules of the NFL, then more action would have to be taken against them. Why would Congress care about this? A lot of money is involved between interstate and international companies and consumers. Couldn't the Eagles claim consumer fraud if it was deemed that the Patriots routinely cheated and nothing is being done and they have subsequently been financially harmed due to their Super Bowl loss? From a dollar perspective, the Patriots make millions off of their liscensed merchandise world-wide. Obviously they would have made far less (especially outside of their market) if they had not won three Super Bowls.
The Patriots losing the SB further hurts their credibility. Brady has been known as the QB who can read a defense better than anyone else and always seems to know where to go with the ball before the play even begins. Against the Giants (and to a lesser degree the Chargers), he looked lost. Was it because he didn't know the defensive play calls like he normally does? I don't think this is the case, but it will be brought up in the coming months by those that are looking to discredit the Patriots success even further.

Re: why does congress want to look into"spygate"?
 

[QUOTE=djnemo65;420156]It's because he's an Eagles fan and he still hasn't gotten over the 05 Superbowl. That's seriously the only reason.[/QUOTE]

PROVE IT!!!!! I think this is a great thing for congress to do. IMO if congress doesnt step up and do this then if the patriots did cheat all those years who would have known? As a fan of the NFL it makes me pretty upset to know that a team had an advantage over my team. If the Pats are inocent then they wont mind testifying.

Re: why does congress want to look into"spygate"?
 

[quote=redwagonskins;420171]Additionally, if the league is indeed hiding more information regarding "Spygate" then it is perpetrating fraud on the public. Because the government gives the NFL an antitrust exemption, it is their duty to enforce anti-fraud provisions. Otherwise, what we end up with is subsidized professional wrestling.

As an aside, one of the funny things about this site is that someone can post a great response such as the one quoted above that essentially answers the question in a logical manner, and a couple of responses latter we'll get the "because Congress is dumb" or "Congress has nothing better to do" arguments. While both statements may have a basis in reality, amorentz has pretty much hit the nail on the head here.[/quote]
Good points, and sorry for piling on. I was writing my post when yours went up.

Re: why does congress want to look into"spygate"?
 

[QUOTE=rypper11;420176]Good points, and sorry for piling on. I was writing my post when yours went up.[/QUOTE]

No worries. I think you have a very valid and cogent argument. What I think is funny is that in the face of the law and the facts of this matter, people think Congress has no duty to get involved. Well in that case, let the NFL give up their limited exemption and then Congress won't have a say. Until then, Congress is going to stick their nose in whenever there is a possible violation of their limited antitrust exemption (in the case of steroids or cheating).

Re: why does congress want to look into"spygate"?
 

[quote=redwagonskins;420180]No worries. I think you have a very valid and cogent argument. What I think is funny is that in the face of the law and the facts of this matter, people think Congress has no duty to get involved. Well in that case, let the NFL give up their limited exemption and then Congress won't have a say. Until then, Congress is going to stick their nose in whenever there is a possible violation of their limited antitrust exemption (in the case of steroids or cheating).[/quote]

I would agree with anti trust/cheating but this whole baseball/steroids issue.....investigating whether players used steroids back in the 80's and 90's is rediculous. If they are so concerned then appoint a DEA agent to investigate and inform all parties that if they need to co opperate with the investigation. If someone used drugs against the law then charge them. If the Doctor was giving it out drugs like candy charge him. Why do we have polititions asking the questions. Assign an investigator and allow him or her to do their job and report back to them with a final report.

Re: why does congress want to look into"spygate"?
 

[QUOTE=SBXVII;420207]I would agree with anti trust/cheating but this whole baseball/steroids issue.....investigating whether players used steroids back in the 80's and 90's is rediculous. If they are so concerned then appoint a DEA agent to investigate and inform all parties that if they need to co opperate with the investigation. If someone used drugs against the law then charge them. If the Doctor was giving it out drugs like candy charge him. Why do we have polititions asking the questions. [B]Assign an investigato[/B]r and allow him or her to do their job and report back to them with a final report.[/QUOTE]

Good point. I think that is what they were hoping the Mitchell Report would do (albeit MLB funded). However, remember that there are criminal investigations going on (remember Bonds). I think the investigations into the '80's and '90's has a lot to do with pressuring MLB and MLBPA to go way beyond what they wanted to do in terms of drug testing.

Re: why does congress want to look into"spygate"?
 

Sen. Arlen Specter is doing the right thing, and I will be very encouraged if he holds hearings on the issue. The NFL, it seems, has been covering up the misdeeds of the Patriots by refusing to investigate them seriously, and possibly also by the destruction of the evidence in the case.

Good for Sen. Specter in pursuing this matter.

Re: why does congress want to look into"spygate"?
 

I'm not against the investigations...I'm against who we have doing them. Why are polititions who are voted in waisting not only their time(which they could be doing something else for their state or our country) but our tax dollars that is paying for their time they are waisting?

Also why do we have several polititions investigating? Assaign one politition and let him meet with everyone. I guess they thing if sports is going to buy off a politition to make the investigation look favorably then let them buy off a whole slew of polititions. lol.

I would only suggest that the group of polititions decide on one investigator and then when complete have them report to the group at the end. Then the polititions can look into anti trust/cheating, but allow the investigator to do his job and any breaking of law allow charges to be filed by them.

Re: why does congress want to look into"spygate"?
 

if congress doesnt investigate than who? You all have valid points about what is going on with our tax money. America needs healthcare, roadwork and education improvements. The last thing congress needs to be doing is investigating a recreational sport.... Maybe this will be the initiative needed to create some sort of investigation commitee. If there already is one, it should be better. IMO the only reason congress feels the need to intervene is because Spector feels that the investigation that is taking place now is not enough. I applaud him for doing so and hope that Goddell is paying attention. Maybe a more efficient way of dealing with rule breakers will come out of all of this, and our tax dollars will not be used in the future.

Re: why does congress want to look into"spygate"?
 

[quote=Oakland Red;420214]Sen. Arlen Specter is doing the right thing, and I will be very encouraged if he holds hearings on the issue. The NFL, it seems, has been covering up the misdeeds of the Patriots by refusing to investigate them seriously, and possibly also by the destruction of the evidence in the case.

Good for Sen. Specter in pursuing this matter.[/quote]I agree. If the misdeeds were great enough to impose the stiffest penalty in NFL history, then WHY would the NFL destroy the evidence? It smells of a cover up of even greater impropriety, and the NFL and Goodell have lost credibility by destroying the key evidence that they ruled on.

Goodell claims that the Patriots only turned over evidence from the 2005 and 2006 seasons, neither of which were Super Bowl seasons for NE. If Matt Walsh's allegations that the Pats taped the Rams final walkthrough before their first Super Bowl victory, or any other evidence from Super Bowl winning seasons turns up, I want to see much harsher penalties. Perhaps a 1-2 year suspension for Belichick, or stripping of the title won during a season where videotape cheating occurred. Goodell left open his right to revisit this case if NE did not hand over all evidence, and if he's really a man of his word, he will be as harsh with this as he has been with individual players.

Re: why does congress want to look into"spygate"?
 

I think it's necesarry because obviously the league did not do due diligence with its own investigation. Everyone likes Robert Kraft so they did a quick and dirty, burned all the tapes and hoped everyone would forget about it. They especially were hoping everyone would forget about it after the Pats started drawing big t.v. numbers on their undefeated run. The fact that they never talked to this Walsh guy is alone reason enough for someone to look into it. If some other industry were committing consumer fraud, no one would think twice about a government investigation. And to me, that's all the Patriots are -a fraud.

Re: why does congress want to look into"spygate"?
 

I see a lot of people claiming that the NFL has anti-trust protection but I didn't think that is true. My understanding is the MLB does but not the NFL. I thought when Al Davis sued the NFL proved this. That was the reason NFL teams move much more often than MLB teams. (they don't need league permission)

Re: why does congress want to look into"spygate"?
 

[QUOTE=Hijinx;420267]I see a lot of people claiming that the NFL has anti-trust protection but I didn't think that is true. My understanding is the MLB does but not the NFL. I thought when Al Davis sued the NFL proved this. That was the reason NFL teams move much more often than MLB teams. (they don't need league permission)[/QUOTE]

True, the NFL does not have the same antitrust exemptions as MLB, but the NFL does enjoy antitrust exemptions via the Sports Broadcasting Act of 1961, especially when it comes to broadcasting.
For discussions of the exemption, take a look at:

[url=http://www.sportslawnews.com/archive/jargon/ljsportsbroadcasingact.htm]Sports Broadcasting Act of 1961[/url]
[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sports_Broadcasting_Act_of_1961]Sports Broadcasting Act of 1961 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/url]
[url=http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3225539]ESPN - Senator wants to know why NFL destroyed Patriots spy tapes - NFL[/url]

Re: why does congress want to look into"spygate"?
 

Maybe someone knows Goodell's mistress, lol. Trust me when I find out who DS's mistress is Vinny will be out the door, then you guys will have to complain about me making all the decisions at Redskin Park. In all seriousness though I think that amorentz explained it best.

Lol, "Mistresses of the NFL" now that would be intresting swimsuit calender.

Re: why does congress want to look into"spygate"?
 

Arlen Spector hasn't embarrassed himself this year yet.

I'm ashamed he's the Senator for PA. The Philly vote gets him elected every time. The Philly vote screws us every election, in fact.

It should be looked into for legal reasons, but our Congress has better things to do with our money.

Re: why does congress want to look into"spygate"?
 

[I]Arlen Spector hasn't embarrassed himself this year yet.[/I]

that single bullett theory he came up with in the jfk murder should have given him enough embarrasment for a thousand years.the reason i asked this question was because with all the other shit we have to deal with here in america,the time he will spend and the money would better be used elsewhere!knowing he's an eagles fan is enough to see why he is such a total and complete dumbass.

Re: why does congress want to look into"spygate"?
 

Another point beside the anti-monopoly benefit given to the NFL is simply the fact that Congress is body ultimately responding to the peoples demands. Average voters care about cheating in Major sports and therefore have to follow up on it. I don't see any of you posters who are bitching online complaining to your Senators, organizing groups, protesting, or doing anything constructive to address your concerns.

Re: why does congress want to look into"spygate"?
 

[QUOTE=onlydarksets;420154]Professional sports are granted monopoly exemptions by Congress. That is, many of their practices are legal only because Congress has given them special permission to do so.

Congress does this with the understanding that it is a necessary evil and that it won't be abused. If cheating is occurring that the NFL is aware of, but the NFL is turning a blind eye in order to protect its monopoly, Congress has an interest in that.[/QUOTE]

This is correct and also if it seemed that the NFL was "fixing games" somehow or scripting them, then they'd no longer be a sport in my mind, and that would upset millions of voters. IT makes sense to look into it, I doubt they find anything though.

Re: why does congress want to look into"spygate"?
 

[url=http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/02/13/specter-belichick-was-ta_n_86572.html]Specter: Belichick Was Taping Since 2000 - The Huffington Post[/url]

WASHINGTON — Bill Belichick has been illegally taping opponents' defensive signals since he became the New England Patriots' coach in 2000, according to Sen. Arlen Specter, who said NFL commissioner Roger Goodell told him that during a meeting Wednesday.



"There was confirmation that there has been taping since 2000, when Coach Belichick took over," Specter said.


Specter said Goodell gave him that information during the 1-hour, 40-minute meeting, which was requested by Specter so the commissioner could explain his reasons for destroying the Spygate tapes and notes.


"There were a great many questions answered by Commissioner Goodell," Specter, the senior Republican on the Senate Judiciary Committee, told reporters after the meeting. "I found a lot of questions unanswerable because of the tapes and notes had been destroyed."......



......."Still, Specter wants to know why penalties were imposed on Belichick before the full extent of the wrongdoing was known and the tapes destroyed in a two-week span. Asked if he thinks there was a coverup, Specter demurred.


'There was an enormous amount of haste,' Specter said."

Re: why does congress want to look into"spygate"?
 

[quote=redskinsfanatic;421402][I]Arlen Spector hasn't embarrassed himself this year yet.[/I]

that single bullett theory he came up with in the jfk murder should have given him enough embarrasment for a thousand years.the reason i asked this question was because with all the other shit we have to deal with here in america,the time he will spend and the money would better be used elsewhere!knowing he's an eagles fan is enough to see why he is such a total and complete dumbass.[/quote]


Actually, history has sort of swung Arlen's way on the single bullet. It's probably more accepted now than it was at the time of the Warren Comission.

I like the fact that Congress is investigating sports. If they weren't, they might be doing something that could cause serious damage to the country.

[yt]r51wZTaJ3AU&feature=related[/yt]

Re: why does congress want to look into"spygate"?
 

[url=http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d806b4b59&template=without-video&confirm=true]Lawsuit seeks compensation for Super Bowl loss[/url]

This is why it's a big deal.

Re: why does congress want to look into"spygate"?
 

because it happened to be a good reason that they may have won superbowls.

Re: why does congress want to look into"spygate"?
 

This wasn't a crime that was committed. It was a violation of an internal NFL rule which the league was made aware of and dealt with how they felt was appropriate. Why that is something that needs to be investigated further, especially by congress, is beyond me.

Re: why does congress want to look into"spygate"?
 

after further review,i think specter did it because his crybabie eagles got smoked by the pats in 05 and he wants to make sure it's not because the pats taped practice!!!!
he's a sore loser like the iggles,and yes he wants to grandstand a bit!

Re: why does congress want to look into"spygate"?
 

[quote=redskinsfanatic;422868]after further review,i think specter did it because his crybabie eagles got smoked by the pats in 05 and he wants to make sure it's not because the pats taped practice!!!!
he's a sore loser like the iggles,and yes he wants to grandstand a bit![/quote]

I doubt that Specter cares the Eagles lost. Comcast cable, who is in a big lawsuit with the NFL, has given somewhere between 200,000 and 500,000 dollars to Specter though his PAC funds. I get the feeling that he is using Spygate to threaten NFL's antitrust, thus putting pressure to settle the lawsuit with Comcast.

Re: why does congress want to look into"spygate"?
 

[QUOTE=djnemo65;422834]This wasn't a crime that was committed. It was a violation of an internal NFL rule which the league was made aware of and dealt with how they felt was appropriate. Why that is something that needs to be investigated further, especially by congress, is beyond me.[/QUOTE]

It isn't a crime? So, if you're going to spend hundreds of dollars to watch a pro football game, don't you expect for the game to be decided fair and square? Wouldn't you feel cheated if you found out that the opponent was involved in illegal activity to gain an advantage over your favorite team instead of playing them fair and square? I would. If I want to go see sports entertainment, I'll go see the WWE. But pro football is supposed to be a real competition between two teams consisting of professional players. If cheating is starting to become a non-issue in sports, then how far away are we from having predetermined outcomes? I personally think it's great that somebody is keeping things in check in order for us fans, as consumers, to get our money's worth.

Re: why does congress want to look into"spygate"?
 

[QUOTE=skinsguy;422927]It isn't a crime? So, if you're going to spend hundreds of dollars to watch a pro football game, don't you expect for the game to be decided fair and square? Wouldn't you feel cheated if you found out that the opponent was involved in illegal activity to gain an advantage over your favorite team instead of playing them fair and square? I would. If I want to go see sports entertainment, I'll go see the WWE. But pro football is supposed to be a real competition between two teams consisting of professional players. If cheating is starting to become a non-issue in sports, then how far away are we from having predetermined outcomes? I personally think it's great that somebody is keeping things in check in order for us fans, as consumers, to get our money's worth.[/QUOTE]

Of course I am mad that they cheated, I just think it's up to the NFL to deal with it. You haven't convinced me in any way that this is a congressional matter.

Re: why does congress want to look into"spygate"?
 

I will say this about the spygate scandal. Why on earth did Goodell a) order the tapes destroyed. b) tell the Patriots to destroy them and not oversee the process.

I can't fathom why these tapes don't get locked in say a safety deposit box, or somewhere on lockdown at NFL films. You don't want folks getting into them, but I feel it's important to keep the evidence around. At least for a year or two.

Re: why does congress want to look into"spygate"?
 

That would've been the right thing to do Daseal, but I get the feeling Goodell just wanted it to be over. Personally I'm glad Congress is looking into this, because if Goodell tried to cover this up to help the Patriots then action needs to be taken. I don't like knowing that another team cheated because "every team is supposed to have an even playing field." If there was more stuff being hidden behind the scenes that gets uncovered I want to see harsher penalties.

Re: why does congress want to look into"spygate"?
 

[quote=djnemo65;423181]Of course I am mad that they cheated, I just think it's up to the NFL to deal with it. You haven't convinced me in any way that this is a congressional matter.[/quote]

Congress gave the NFL an exemption worth billions of dollars. How is it [U]not[/U] their business if the NFL is knowingly allowing cheating?

Re: why does congress want to look into"spygate"?
 

I don't thik it would be more of a case of Goodell helping the Patriots but rather Goodell helping the image of the league. Imagine the scandal if it became known that the Patriots cheated their way into four Super Bowls. Better to make sure no one sees those tapes then have to deal with tempermental fans.

Not my personal belief, I thought I'd provide a [B]j[/B]a[B]gilotr[/B]al point of view.

Re: why does congress want to look into"spygate"?
 

[QUOTE=onlydarksets;423209]Congress gave the NFL an exemption worth billions of dollars. How is it [U]not[/U] their business if the NFL is knowingly allowing cheating?[/QUOTE]

How are they allowing cheating? They gave the Patriots the most severe punishment in the history of the league. One team breaking a league rule is not the same as a league-wide conspiracy to fix games and defraud fans.

I just think a lot of people need to calm down on this, starting with Specter.