Shooting Rampage at Northern Illinois U.
 

Just awful

[url=http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/02/14/university.shooting/index.html]5 shot dead, including gunman, at Northern Illinois University - CNN.com[/url]

Re: Shooting Rampage at Northern Illinois U.
 

what is the matter with kids now a days? or for that fact, society in general? that is just terrible news

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wtf man i honesty dont feel safe in classes anymore

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Terrible story.

It's unfortunate that anyone could drive themselves to do something like this. I've always been eerily fascinated by the minds of these kinds of people. Why not just take yourself out? Is that really how you want to exit this world? Makes no sense.

Horrible tragedy.

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The worrisome part is whenever I look around at people at a library or lecture hall I usually feel there are about 10-20% of people who would just fall into a category of people who would do something like this.

Our school especially, has several predominate cultures and groups, and its just there are the people that dont fit in, or just look like there are apt to these kinda acts. I don't know how to explain it, but it's just bad because a VT can happen anywhere.

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[quote=hooskins;422392]The worrisome part is whenever I look around at people at a library or lecture hall I usually feel there are about 10-20% of people who would just fall into a category of people who would do something like this.

Our school especially, has several predominate cultures and groups, and its just there are the people that dont fit in, or just look like there are apt to these kinda acts. I don't know how to explain it, but it's just bad because a VT can happen anywhere.[/quote]

I can't say that I am able to look around and figure out people that would fall into the category. But oddly enough on Monday, I was sitting in my US History class thinking, "What if a shooter came into my classroom?" It was just a weird, eerie thing. Its starting to become this awful phenomenon that can happen at any college campus now and it's definitely got me scared.

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brings back some memories

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[QUOTE=hooskins;422392]The worrisome part is whenever I look around at people at a library or lecture hall I usually feel there are about 10-20% of people who would just fall into a category of people who would do something like this.

Our school especially, has several predominate cultures and groups, and its just there are the people that dont fit in, or just look like there are apt to these kinda acts. I don't know how to explain it, but [B]it's just bad because a VT can happen anywhere.[/B][/QUOTE]

I know a lot of people hate to have this discussion but a VT can only happen in a country with easy access to handguns. There are more sick weirdos in Japan per capita than probably any other country in the world (they have ladies only cars on the train to prevent groping), but even Samurai swords are prohibited (seriously, past a certain point of sharpness) so you never hear about these kind of tragedies.

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After VT...I definitely find myself analyzing my classrooms for a defense plan. Where to escape, best way to barricade the door, etc.

Shitty reality.

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I've got lots of connections there. Two of my best friends had a class in the building at the time the shooting took place. One of em ditched the class, and the other was there, but is fine.

Scary shit though, my heart skipped a beat when I read about it.

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This really sucks, I hate hearing about stories like this but unfortunately it's becoming commonplace because nothing can really stop it from happening except the gunman himself. This brings back horrible memories of VT.

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man that sucks. I'm not really scared in classes but it can happen any day, anywhere. Just enjoy what ever time we got in life. Can't be scared to go to class.

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[quote=djnemo65;422412]I know a lot of people hate to have this discussion but a VT can only happen in a country with easy access to handguns. There are more sick weirdos in Japan per capita than probably any other country in the world (they have ladies only cars on the train to prevent groping), but even Samurai swords are prohibited (seriously, past a certain point of sharpness) so you never hear about these kind of tragedies.[/quote]
Well to compare us and these types of things to Japan you have to look at more than guns. You have to look at culture, devorce rates (single parent homes, etc... Its narrow minded just to say guns. In Japan to discrace your family is one of the major things you really get looked down for and you become a discrase to society in general. Here in America it seems to be a part of growing up and no I'm not talking about going on a killin spree. I'm talking in general.

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[QUOTE=firstdown;422528]Well to compare us and these types of things to Japan you have to look at more than guns. You have to look at culture, devorce rates (single parent homes, etc... Its narrow minded just to say guns. In Japan to discrace your family is one of the major things you really get looked down for and you become a discrase to society in general. Here in America it seems to be a part of growing up and no I'm not talking about going on a killin spree. I'm talking in general.[/QUOTE]

If your point is that there aren't mass murders in Japan because people don't want to embarrass their parents, well, let me just say I don't think that's the reason.

I was using Japan as an example because I live here, but you don't see school shootings anywhere else but America. My point is that there are psychopaths everywhere, they are just loaded up with guns in the states.

That's just the reaction I have every time I hear about one of these. I get sick of having to try and defend my country two or more times every year to people who just can't understand why we continue to allow this to happen.

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Yea we really have stupid stupid gun laws. Sorry 2nd Amendment lovers, but its just too easy to get a gun in VA. A good percentage of guns found in NYC crimes are originally from VA, because it is a joke to get one here.

I hate Michael Moore, but some of the points in "Bowling for Coulbine(sp)" were valid in comparison to Canada. I agree djnemo, it is really annoying to me at times unfortunately it will take tragedies like these to create any kind of substantial gun law reform.

Re: Shooting Rampage at Northern Illinois U.
 

The 2nd amendment was for people to have rifles to fight the British, not for every whack off to own a gun for pleasure. I was 17 and drunk -- we walked into walmart and bought a rifle. We used it to shoot targets, but still -- far too easy.

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If you guys want to debate the right to bear arms, go right ahead. However, it is really frustrating to read off-the-cuff comments about our "stupid laws" or how easy it is to obtain firearms legally, when people clearly have no idea what those laws are and are mostly ignorant on what qualifies someone as a prohibited person.

I'm really interested to know what the mental health history of the shooter is. I already have an idea of what his history will show and why he was allowed to purchase firearms legally. Unfortunately, it will take an increase in these type of shootings before the Feds will revise a very gray area within the mental health prohibitor portion of the firearm statute.

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[quote=Lady Brave;422612]If you guys want to debate the right to bear arms, go right ahead. However, it is really frustrating to read off-the-cuff comments about our "stupid laws" or how easy it is to obtain firearms legally, when people clearly have no idea what those laws are and are mostly ignorant on what qualifies someone as a prohibited person.

I'm really interested to know what the mental health history of the shooter is. I already have an idea of what his history will show and why he was allowed to purchase firearms legally. Unfortunately, it will take an increase in these type of shootings before the Feds will revise a very gray area within the mental health prohibitor portion of the firearm statute.[/quote]

Well I was just reading that he was off or not taking his medication but they did not say what he was taking. I also read he had purchased the guns within 5 days of the shootings and used a hand gun and shot gun.I do know that here in VA. if people have mental issues the are not allowed to buy guns and it suppose to show up with their instant back ground check. That was one of the issues with the VT shooting and if the proper procedures were followed that guys name should have come up as rejected for the purchase of the gun. If I remember correctly it was the doctors or medical place which failed to report his mental condition. I just don't get this stuff because its not like in the past 15 years kids all of a sudden started have mental issues. Heck, we had people carrying guns in their cars on school property when I went to high school back in the early 80s. We never gave it any second thought.

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[quote=firstdown;422651]Well I was just reading that he was off or not taking his medication but they did not say what he was taking. I also read he had purchased the guns within 5 days of the shootings and used a hand gun and shot gun. [B]I do know that here in VA. if people have mental issues the are not allowed to buy guns and it suppose to show up with their instant back ground check. That was one of the issues with the VT shooting and if the proper procedures were followed that guys name should have come up as rejected for the purchase of the gun. If I remember correctly it was the doctors or medical place which failed to report his mental condition.[/B] I just don't get this stuff because its not like in the past 15 years kids all of a sudden started have mental issues. Heck, we had people carrying guns in their cars on school property when I went to high school back in the early 80s. We never gave it any second thought.[/quote]
The reporting of mental health commitments to NICS is not mandatory and most states do not do an automatic check for commitments when running backgrounds. Truth be told, most states rely on the applicant to voluntarily disclose their mental health history when he/she submits a firearms purchase application. Unfortunately, right now, we rely on the honor system to find out if someone has prior mental health issues. On top of that, some states refuse to disclose mental health information all together.

I don't know what VA's gun law is with regards to mental health commitments. I do know that the VT shooter was not prohibited to purchase firearms under federal law. You cannot be denied firearms under federal law if you are committed to an institution or hospital and only held for observation. I can't remember who actually had him initially committed, but the hospital chose not to formally commit him and only held him for observation. He did not qualify as a prohibited person because the hospital ultimately did not find him to be a mental defective or incompetent while he received treatment.

VA is one of the leading states that cooperates with NICS in reporting mental health commitments. According to the NICS rep I spoke with about the VT shooter, VA did everything to the letter with regards to his background check. The shooter simply slid through a very small crack in the statute. Until the Feds fix that crack and make [U]all[/U] mental health commitments a prohibitive category, regardless of the diagnosis or treatment a person receives, crazy people will continue to be approved for firearms purchases.

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[quote=Lady Brave;422720]The reporting of mental health commitments to NICS is not mandatory and most states do not do an automatic check for commitments when running backgrounds. Truth be told, most states rely on the applicant to voluntarily disclose their mental health history when he/she submits a firearms purchase application. Unfortunately, right now, we rely on the honor system to find out if someone has prior mental health issues. On top of that, some states refuse to disclose mental health information all together.

I don't know what VA's gun law is with regards to mental health commitments. I do know that the VT shooter was not prohibited to purchase firearms under federal law. You cannot be denied firearms under federal law if you are committed to an institution or hospital and only held for observation. I can't remember who actually had him initially committed, but the hospital chose not to formally commit him and only held him for observation. He did not qualify as a prohibited person because the hospital ultimately did not find him to be a mental defective or incompetent while he received treatment.

VA is one of the leading states that cooperates with NICS in reporting mental health commitments. According to the NICS rep I spoke with about the VT shooter, VA did everything to the letter with regards to his background check. The shooter simply slid through a very small crack in the statute. Until the Feds fix that crack and make [U]all[/U] mental health commitments a prohibitive category, regardless of the diagnosis or treatment a person receives, crazy people will continue to be approved for firearms purchases.[/quote]
Everything I read about the VT shooting and I live in the area so there was a ton of stuff to read. Is that by Va. standards what he was committed for should have made it illegal in Va. for him to buy a fire arm and should have been report as such. He did not fall through some crack in the system it was a failure on someones part to report this to the proper people.

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[quote=firstdown;422749]Everything I read about the VT shooting and I live in the area so there was a ton of stuff to read. Is that by Va. standards what he was committed for should have made it illegal in Va. for him to buy a fire arm and should have been report as such. He did not fall through some crack in the system it was a failure on someones part to report this to the proper people.[/quote]
The key word is "committed" and he wasn't formally committed by the hospital. I'll have to disagree with you that the proper procedures weren't followed. I talked with the NICS rep who was involved in investigating that case. They looked to see if both the federal and state laws were complied with regarding his prior commitment and their findings were that he did not qualify as a prohibited person under the statutes because he was held for observation only. I saw more articles after that incident that reported poorly researched information than I can count. Don't believe everything you read.

There's a bigger picture here that people need to look at. There are countless people out there who suffer from serious mental conditions that should prohibit them from obtaining firearms. However, these people don't exhibit outward behaviors that warrant them being committed. So they don't fall into the prohibited category. Most people do seek treatment on their own, but we have no way of knowing that unless they choose to disclose it. Furthermore, by law, I'm not allowed to ask people if they have been treated for a mental condition. I can only ask if they've been committed. That part of the law is pretty eff'd up if you ask me. In my perfect world, anyone attempting to purchase a firearm should have to provide a letter from their physician as to their mental competency before they're allowed to buy one.

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99% of gunowners are responsible and law abiding citizens. The other 1% are criminals and criminals do not respect people or laws that is why they are the way they are. By tightening gun laws is only going to hurt those people who already adhere to those laws not criminals.

I am with Firstdown in that we need to look at the whole picture and what is and what is not going on in our culture these days.

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I think this brings back to light again what can colleges do to have a better system in dealing with these situations. Universities like Tech and N. Illinois are so much harder to regulate than elementary/middle/high schools.

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LB, I'll take your word on the VT thing because it sounds like you know what your talking about.

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[quote=firstdown;422962]LB, I'll take your word on the VT thing because it sounds like you know what your talking about.[/quote]
Well, running background checks and issuing firearms permits is what I do for a living. I take a lot of satisfaction in my job, especially when I know I've had a part in stopping some wife beater, nut job, or all around criminal from obtaining firearms legally. Sure, they can go out on the street and get them, but at least I've made it more difficult for them and slowed them down. The other benefit is that now I have documentation on them that they have been denied firearms and our officers will be alerted to it should they come into contact with those people in the future.

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[quote=TheSmurfs22;422838]99% of gunowners are responsible and law abiding citizens. The other 1% are criminals and criminals do not respect people or laws that is why they are the way they are. By tightening gun laws is only going to hurt those people who already adhere to those laws not criminals.

I am with Firstdown in that we need to look at the whole picture and what is and what is not going on in our culture these days.[/quote]
99%? Try about 50% of them being law abiding citizens. Only about half of the people I run backgrounds on have no criminal history. You can have multiple convictions for misdemeanor drug offenses, assault, theft, DWI, etc. and still purchase firearms. You don't have to be a law abiding citizen. Heck, you don't even have to be a citizen to buy legally in this country.

Most everyone else I encounter aren't responsible gun owners. The majority of them don't have a clue about firearms in general. They don't know how to shoot, store or transport them correctly and some don't even know what to do with their permit after it's been issued to them. They have no idea what it means to be responsible and don't really care to educate themselves.

I could go on and on. I deal with so many idiots it's not funny. People are forever coming in and playing dumb about their criminal record, flat out lying to my face and basically trying to BS me on a daily basis. Somedays I just want to reach through the window and strangle them. Luckily for them, I like my job and want to keep it. Bottom line is there are a lot of morons out there buying guns and some have an arsenal of them. If people could spend one day with me and see what I deal with, they'd advocate tighter controls in a heartbeat.

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[quote=Lady Brave;423116]99%? Try about 50% of them being law abiding citizens. Only about half of the people I run backgrounds on have no criminal history. You can have multiple convictions for misdemeanor drug offenses, assault, theft, DWI, etc. and still purchase firearms. You don't have to be a law abiding citizen. Heck, you don't even have to be a citizen to buy legally in this country.

Most everyone else I encounter aren't responsible gun owners. The majority of them don't have a clue about firearms in general. They don't know how to shoot, store or transport them correctly and some don't even know what to do with their permit after it's been issued to them. They have no idea what it means to be responsible and don't really care to educate themselves.

I could go on and on. I deal with so many idiots it's not funny. People are forever coming in and playing dumb about their criminal record, flat out lying to my face and basically trying to BS me on a daily basis. Somedays I just want to reach through the window and strangle them. Luckily for them, I like my job and want to keep it. Bottom line is there are a lot of morons out there buying guns and some have an arsenal of them. If people could spend one day with me and see what I deal with, they'd advocate tighter controls in a heartbeat.[/quote]
Ok, you issue gun permits how do you know if people are responsable gun owners?