Game Positives and Negatives
 

Positives
Starting O-line
The Rock, Sultan, Coles, Cooley, Mcants
D-line
S. Taylor Forced Fumble
SPECIAL TEAMS

Negatives
Ramsey (2 Fumbles and 1 Interception)
Portis - No Spunk in his step, not patient
Jacobs - Lined up wrong on 2 occasions - Looked confused
Penalties
Backup Coners

our 3rd string secondary is complete crap, QBs all sucked tonight...
scott and simon did well, as did smoot, and the starting O-line held the panthers off well.

Taylor got some good hits, and he's really fast... no picks, but he definately showed up to play. Rock was bad early, but made up for it later in the game. Lemons (59) played very well for his limited time...

OUR 1st DEFENSE CAN HOLD THE RUN... they weren't blitzing like crazy this game, and they were able to get 3 stops when the panthers were 3 yards off the goal line... lots of stuffing the runner, but part of that may be a crapper panthers O-line run support...

stempke, hall, and kimrin all kicked, and all looked fine (kimrin squibs punts a lot though).

Theres no way Portis is a negative. He ran 5 times, proboly the same little dive or counter.

backup d lineman looked good, at least Greg White and Ron Warner did. Gari Scot has potential, just needs to finish his routes.

Lets hope the coaching staff can turn Lemons into lemonade

lol

[QUOTE=SittingBull]Lets hope the coaching staff can turn Lemons into lemonade[/QUOTE]

for anyone that listened to the game with the link that redskins rat provided, tell me that this doesnt sound like something they would have said!! Carolina has some excentric weirdos doing commentary for them.

the offense isnt looking good tho. only the o-line. Kenyatta Jones was solid.

I bet Jones has a better season then Samuels when all is said and done. As big as Samuels is he should be kicking ass! I think he is over rated. He needs to get mean! Put some people on their ass. All I heard last season was the O attack is to passive because of the pass blocking all the time. Well now it's time to run and he still is passive! I hope Joe Bugel can make me wrong about Samuels be cause he cost TWO first round picks to get him!

the O is aenemic because of the number of different plays they're running (seems like 1 pass, 1 run)... you can't water down a football gameplan much more than that... QB'ing when the defensive memorizes both of all two of your awesome plays is really tough.

I bet they all start looking a lot better at tampa...

fumbling snaps and throwing bad INTs is NOwhere on the playbook...

correct, there's no reason for fumbling snaps... the ints are partially due to being too predictable.

Taylor comes just as advertised, what a great job he did of stripping that ball, although we didn't get the recovery, you can see his instinct's for the ball, this kid was born to play football.

i said if taylor did well after tampa i'd forget about his offseason, but it seems i'm already having trouble remembering what all that fuss was about...

[QUOTE=RedskinPete]I hope Joe Bugel can make me wrong about Samuels be cause he cost TWO first round picks to get him![/QUOTE] What 2 1st Round Picks? We finsihed bad that year adn recieved the 3 pick in the draft and the previous year we traded down with the Saints, so they could pick Rickey Williams and we picked Champ. We also recieved their number 1 the next year which was the 2nd pick in the 1st Round. Who did we get , Lavar!!! So maybe I meesed somthing but how did he cost us 2 first rounders?

[QUOTE=CRT3]What 2 1st Round Picks? We finsihed bad that year adn recieved the 3 pick in the draft and the previous year we traded down with the Saints, so they could pick Rickey Williams and we picked Champ. We also recieved their number 1 the next year which was the 2nd pick in the 1st Round. Who did we get , Lavar!!! So maybe I meesed somthing but how did he cost us 2 first rounders?[/QUOTE]
seriously, someone's math doesn't add up here

As far as Portis is concerned -- it seems that Gibbs isn't running anything allowing him to get to the outside and really use his speed. I only listened to the first half on radio, but that's what it sounded like. I think that Gibbs just knows it's preseason, and doesn't want to show his hand until week one.

The QB play so far is a little troubling though.

Maybe I shouldn't give Portis a negative but he does seems to beat the lineman to the point of attack in the counter trey. One carry shouldn't count as this is the 1st play of the game that Ramsey fumbled the snap. He picked it up and somehow got it to Portis who took it for a yard or two. A broken play should not count. They ran 2 basic plays that I saw, counter trey and the gut run. Mostly gut runs which is purely vanilla football.

[QUOTE=CRT3]Positives
Starting O-line
The Rock, Sultan, Coles, Cooley, Mcants
D-line
S. Taylor Forced Fumble
SPECIAL TEAMS

Negatives
Ramsey (2 Fumbles and 1 Interception)
Portis - No Spunk in his step, not patient
Jacobs - Lined up wrong on 2 occasions - Looked confused
Penalties
Backup Coners[/QUOTE]

I don't know how anyone can draw anything positive from the O-line, Rock Cartwright or Sultan. Up until the 4th quarter we had 39 yards rushing, and 15 of that was from a scramble by Hasslebeck. Other than one run each by Rock and McCullough against the Panther scrubs late in the game, the rushing attack was pathetic.

And I don't buy into the notion that the offense is sputtering because the gameplan is vanilla. If it's vanilla plays we're running, then that's got to be basic stuff that everyone should be executing sufficiently at this point.

The vanilla offense argument makes some sense when you think about it, if the defense knows what plays are coming it's pretty easy to defend.

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]The vanilla offense argument makes some sense when you think about it, if the defense knows what plays are coming it's pretty easy to defend.[/QUOTE]

But Matty, you still have to execute. It doesn't matter if the defense knows what plays are coming -- which by the way, I highly doubt they do -- the defense still has to respond physically to what they think is going to happen. Remember Super Bowl 22? The Broncos had to know what Gibbs was going to throw at them in the 4th quarter. Timmy Smith counter to the left, Timmy Smith counter to the right. They knew that play was coming, and still couldn't stop it.

Michael Irvin used to taunt corners by telling them what route he was going to run. Guess what? He still beat them and caught the ball. The same goes for our offense now. If they execute properly, and with authority -- they should be performing a lot better than what we're seeing. That's the name of the game. Play better, harder, and smarter than your opponent. If you do, it won't matter if he somehow "knows" exactly what play is coming.

I know it's still early, and clearly they need more practice and more reps. But I'm telling you, if there's not marked improvement against Miami, a team in complete disarray, then my hand will move significantly more towards the panic button.

No, I just don't buy the 'Vanilla Offense' argument.

panic in august? I thought you would be a bit more level headed, Beems

New coach, new system, new players. 2 PRESEASON games!

Give it some time fellas. I'm not expecting the offense to REALLY start clicking until maybe week 2 or 3 in the regular season. The starters aren't spending that much time on the field, and Gibb's offense is a little complicated....even when it's "vanilla". If it still looks this bad come week 2 against the Giants....then we can start worrying.

I agree, Redskins_P. Couldn't have said it better. But we are skins fans, so we worry! :eek:

[QUOTE=JWsleep]I agree, Redskins_P. Couldn't have said it better. But we are skins fans, so we worry! :eek:[/QUOTE]

I hear ya man, but still we shouldn't even say the word panic right now. I think we're just a little impatient. I'd rather look like crap right now, and then come in strong during the regular season.

I guess we'd have to assume that we're up against vanilla defenses as well right? So do we then conclude that a vanilla defense beats a vanilla offense?

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]panic in august? I thought you would be a bit more level headed, Beems[/QUOTE]

Me? Level headed? No, not really.

I said my hands would "move significantly more towards" the panic button. I didn't necessarily say that I would pound on it frantically or anything.

I remember hearing the same thing in the 2001 preseason when Marty was in charge. We sucked in the preseason, and sucked for the first 5 regular season games. Hopefully we'll be better this time around. I'll give them the whole preseason before I start lying awake at night sweating profusely.

All this talk about vanilla, no love for chocolate anymore??

with all the player and coaching turnover, its unreasonable to expect high quality mid season performances right now... the QBs have been rotten, but it may be midway through the season before everyone is on the same page, i'm hoping they're ready by week 1 though.

[QUOTE=Beemnseven]I don't know how anyone can draw anything positive from the O-line, Rock Cartwright or Sultan. Up until the 4th quarter we had 39 yards rushing, and 15 of that was from a scramble by Hasslebeck. Other than one run each by Rock and McCullough against the Panther scrubs late in the game, the rushing attack was pathetic.

And I don't buy into the notion that the offense is sputtering because the gameplan is vanilla. If it's vanilla plays we're running, then that's got to be basic stuff that everyone should be executing sufficiently at this point.[/QUOTE]
Hey this was my view on positives and negatives. I am not always correct but I was there and this is what I saw. The starting o-line did a good job considering it was preseason and they were running a vanilla offense. If they were bad pick 2-3 plays and tell me what was so bad. And if all 11 guys on the defense know where the ball is headed to on the snap via a run, execution won't matter. And refering to the Superbowl, if you remember we went up top on more then one occasion. Denver's safteys did not know whether to press the line or hang in 2 deep. Confusion at the point of attack is what makes the Air Correyl offense work. In fact they even ran the Charley hitch pattern twice on Saturday. But this is vanilla or simple as compared to regular season.

[QUOTE=CRT3]Hey this was my view on positives and negatives. I am not always correct but I was there and this is what I saw. The starting o-line did a good job considering it was preseason and they were running a vanilla offense. If they were bad pick 2-3 plays and tell me what was so bad. And if all 11 guys on the defense know where the ball is headed to on the snap via a run, execution won't matter. And refering to the Superbowl, if you remember we went up top on more then one occasion. Denver's safteys did not know whether to press the line or hang in 2 deep. Confusion at the point of attack is what makes the Air Correyl offense work. In fact they even ran the Charley hitch pattern twice on Saturday. But this is vanilla or simple as compared to regular season.[/QUOTE]

Fine. Fair enough. I'm glad somebody's more optimistic. But it's always been my nature to be more of the opposite. Recent Redskin history since about, oh, 1993 has the tendency to do that to you.

If you want 2 or 3 bad plays, how about these: Clinton Portis ran with the starting unit for 15 yards on 5 carries with the longest gain going for 9 yards. That means the other 4 rushes combined for just 6 yards. How about those?

And though this has been a common theme among many of the members here today, I seriously doubt that "all 11 guys on the defense know where the ball is headed..." I mean, come on. I know Gibbs isn't tipping his hand for the exhibition games, but don't you believe that he has the ability to mix it up even when he's careful not to give anything away? Seriously, did Gibbs hand John Fox a script of the offensive plays he was going to run? Just where is the proof that the defense 'knew every play before it was coming' ???

Regarding the Super Bowl, yes, Gibbs called for more than a few bombs. But Timmy Smith did happen to break the record, and still holds it for rushing yards in The Big Game. By the 4th quarter, my great-grandma knew all we were going to do was run, run, run. I have a feeling Denver did too. But guess what? They still couldn't stop it. I noticed you neglected to respond to my point about Michael Irvin, which further backs up my argument. Like I said, he [I]told[/I] the corners what routes he was going to run -- and he still beat them.

Look, in my heart of hearts, I'm sure Gibbs will turn this ship around. By the 4th or 5th preseason game, we should start seeing glimpses of what this offense should be capable of -- a punishing running attack and pinpoint passing for big yardage downfield. I just don't see that right now. If you do, that's great.

Just pass me whatever you're drinking.

[QUOTE=Beemnseven]
If you want 2 or 3 bad plays, how about these: Clinton Portis ran with the starting unit for 15 yards on 5 carries with the longest gain going for 9 yards. That means the other 4 rushes combined for just 6 yards. How about those?

I think Portis needs more than 5 carries before he really gets going. The o-line is still learning this new system which is the exact opposite of Spurriers. That being said....the line needs to get their timing, and assignments together before they can really start opening up holes for Portis. I noticed that lines timing was really off in the first two games so can't blame Portis for that.

Beemnseven, I know how you feel. I tend to get that feeling at times too, but you have to be optimistic and believe that Gibbs will make adjustments and this thing will turn around soon. Come on man.....take a sip of kool aid.

Well I guess we're headed for another 5-11 season because the offense isn't working after 2 preseason games.

We should pick up this conversation in week 8 and see where we stand then.

Picking apart systems and individual performances in the preseason is a waste of time and 9 times out of 10 isn't indicative of how the regular season will pan out.

It's august. What else are we gonna do? j/k!

Thomas Boswell wrote a good column a few weeks ago about how even the most level headed skins fan reacts wildly to every twist and turn in preseason. It's just the price of loving the Burgundy and Gold (not to say that if you don't worry, you don't love!!!). I actually fall asleep worrying about the o-line and the QBs. And we haven't even played the 3rd of 5 preseason games....

[QUOTE=JWsleep]It's august. What else are we gonna do? j/k!

Thomas Boswell wrote a good column a few weeks ago about how even the most level headed skins fan reacts wildly to every twist and turn in preseason. It's just the price of loving the Burgundy and Gold (not to say that if you don't worry, you don't love!!!). I actually fall asleep worrying about the o-line and the QBs. And we haven't even played the 3rd of 5 preseason games....[/QUOTE]
I know, of course it's fun to break this stuff down, after the long offseason we're just beggin' for this stuff! I'm just sayin' we also need to keep things in perspective. Championships aren't won in August.

I hear ya, Matty. Anyway, the cowroids lost 18-0, so we've gotta feel at least a little good! :thumb:

[QUOTE=Beemnseven]
If you want 2 or 3 bad plays, how about these: Clinton Portis ran with the starting unit for 15 yards on 5 carries with the longest gain going for 9 yards. That means the other 4 rushes combined for just 6 yards. How about those? [/QUOTE]

OK I will answer all of your paragraphs one by one. 1st of all a healthy debate is fine. Preseason, Season and off season are all game for me. Remember I picked them to go 16-0.

So what did the line do that was so bad on those 4 plays? 1 of them Ramsey fumbled and barely got the ball to Portis. Broken play should not count against the line but agaisnt the quarterback center exchange. So we are down to explain why the line was bad on 3 plays. If I read correctly what I saw Portis cut back or beat the line to the whole. They ran 2 running plays with diferent motions. Gut or dive between the tackle and guard or the counter. That was it. So if the linebackers and Safties follow the tackle movement it is easy for all 11 men to attack the runner. Unless you saw a different play this offense was vanilla. Understandable since the goal is to win season games. Technique is the goal for all of the players. One step at a time to 16-0

[QUOTE=Beemnseven]
Regarding the Super Bowl, yes, Gibbs called for more than a few bombs. But Timmy Smith did happen to break the record, and still holds it for rushing yards in The Big Game. By the 4th quarter, my great-grandma knew all we were going to do was run, run, run. I have a feeling Denver did too. But guess what? They still couldn't stop it. I noticed you neglected to respond to my point about Michael Irvin, which further backs up my argument. Like I said, he [I]told[/I] the corners what routes he was going to run -- and he still beat them.[/QUOTE]

There defense was real weak. The key to them getting to that Super Bowl was Elway who ran and scrambled his way there. Thanks to Coach Byner we got to face Denver's defense. We sealed Elway up with The Spy (Alvin Walton) and took controll of the pathetic defense of Denvers.

Irvin???? Your a Dallas fan? Irvin never crushed the Skins and how do you know what was said on the field other then Irvin telling people what he said. Irvin was good and big. Accross the middle with his size and Aikman tossing him the ball. Did he really tell Darrel Green which way he was going? I don't think so, as Darrel pretty much shut him down. But like all corners he got beat on a few.

redskins.com and espn mentioned they all ran 3 types of running plays, that portis right now is faster to the hole than his o-linemen/blockers, and none of the runs were to the outside, so it'd be pretty easy to figure out that you're bum rushing centerfield.

but i think the bigger problem than vanilla offense is really the turnover. a million new players and coaches trying to get everything together and get on the same page. I notice you haven't said much about that though... I don't think the QBs suck, i think the offense needs more time, but i don't think the vanilla offense helps the team... its a good way to get tape and evaluate players, but its NOT a good way to score points (no misdirection/miscues to the defense, not much variation, etc).

[QUOTE=JWsleep]It's august. What else are we gonna do? j/k!

Thomas Boswell wrote a good column a few weeks ago about how even the most level headed skins fan reacts wildly to every twist and turn in preseason. It's just the price of loving the Burgundy and Gold (not to say that if you don't worry, you don't love!!!). I actually fall asleep worrying about the o-line and the QBs. And we haven't even played the 3rd of 5 preseason games....[/QUOTE]

Then a little Johnnie Walker and all your worries go away, right [B]JW[/B]sleep?