John McCain spreading fear about childhood vaccines
 

At a town hall meeting Friday in Texas, Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., declared that "there’s strong evidence" that thimerosal, a mercury-based preservative that was once in many childhood vaccines, is responsible for the increased diagnoses of autism in the U.S. -- a position in stark contrast with the view of the medical establishment.

McCain was responding to a question from the mother of a boy with autism, who asked about a recent story that the U.S. Court of Federal Claims and the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program had issued a judgment in favor of an unnamed child whose family claimed regressive encephalopathy and symptoms of autism were caused by thimerosal.

[url=http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/02/john-mccain-ent.html]Political Punch[/url]

Re: John McCain spreading fear about childhood vaccines
 

first 4 links on google, 2 say yes, 2 say no... go figure.

[url=http://www.nationalautismassociation.org/thimerosal.php]What Causes Autism[/url]

[url=http://www.chop.edu/consumer/jsp/division/generic.jsp?id=75751]Thimerosal : Vaccine Education Center - Children's Hospital of Philadelphia[/url]

[url=http://www.thimerosal-autism-symptoms.com/]Thimerosal Autism Symptoms Resource[/url]

[url=http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/71209.php]No Link Found Between Autism And Thimerosal In Vaccines[/url]

Re: John McCain spreading fear about childhood vaccines
 

when did McCain get his medical degree? why make statements about something like that? because its something someone wanted to hear. just another politician trying to get a vote

Re: John McCain spreading fear about childhood vaccines
 

[quote=dmek25;430576]when did McCain get his medical degree? why make statements about something like that? because its something someone wanted to hear. just another politician trying to get a vote[/quote]

not all politicians have economy degrees, law degrees, public safety degrees, strategic planning degrees, medical degrees, applied science degrees, etc...


they're all asked to give their opinions on a lot of subjects they'll never be experts in, it's part of the job.

Re: John McCain spreading fear about childhood vaccines
 

Yeah, I always thought this issue was a lot more divided than the originally linked article let on. And given that opposition to thimesoral (sp?) was originally pushed by liberal consumer advocacy groups I think its good that McCain is willing to take it on.

Re: John McCain spreading fear about childhood vaccines
 

well i mean, if there's a chance it does harm, and there's a way to get the same effect without it, better to be safe i guess.

i haven't looked into it very far, so i really don't know (or have a valid opinion) whether there's a real link to autism or not.

Re: John McCain spreading fear about childhood vaccines
 

The truth is that their is no evidence that Ethyl mercury causes autism.

[QUOTE]Yeah, I always thought this issue was a lot more divided than the originally linked article let on.[/QUOTE] No in science

Re: John McCain spreading fear about childhood vaccines
 

[QUOTE=erik2680;430719]The truth is that their is no evidence that Ethyl mercury causes autism.

No in science[/QUOTE]

Is this a topic that is particularly close to you? Either personally or professionally.

Re: John McCain spreading fear about childhood vaccines
 

This is yet another example of doctors and scientists being completely clueless. They don't understand the first thing about autism and so hysterical mothers and Don Imus are free to speculate wildly.

Re: John McCain spreading fear about childhood vaccines
 

[QUOTE=70Chip;430748]This is yet another example of doctors and scientists being completely clueless. They don't understand the first thing about autism and so hysterical mothers and Don Imus are free to speculate wildly.[/QUOTE]

Care to elaborate?

Re: John McCain spreading fear about childhood vaccines
 

From what I understand there is not only no reliable evidence that mecury causes autism there is also no unreliable evidence either. It is one of those strange theoretical ideas that somehow has taken hold and refuses to die. No one has one shred of evidence to support the claim. I do understand that the use of mecury is actually very needed to stabilize vaccines but I am by no means any type of expert. I suspect that if vaccines actually caused autism there'd be a good amount of evidence and uproar. I get really tired of this culture of belief that Big Business and the US Government have the wherewithall to perpetrate conspiracies against people when A) the US Government shows an incredible lack of ability to do anything well, especially keep secrets and B) It is completely counter to Big Business interests to produce a product that exposes them to risks they don't need. They're in business to make money and making products that cause autism is a pretty stupid way of doing it.

Re: John McCain spreading fear about childhood vaccines
 

[QUOTE=FRPLG;430757]From what I understand there is not only no reliable evidence that mecury causes autism there is also no unreliable evidence either. It is one of those strange theoretical ideas that somehow has taken hold and refuses to die. No one has one shred of evidence to support the claim. I do understand that the use of mecury is actually very needed to stabilize vaccines but I am by no means any type of expert. I suspect that if vaccines actually caused autism there'd be a good amount of evidence and uproar. I get really tired of this culture of belief that Big Business and the US Government have the wherewithall to perpetrate conspiracies against people when A) the US Government shows an incredible lack of ability to do anything well, especially keep secrets and [B]B) It is completely counter to Big Business interests to produce a product that exposes them to risks they don't need. They're in business to make money and making products that cause autism is a pretty stupid way of doing it.[/B][/QUOTE]

Right.

Wait...don't I recall a couple of companies making a buck or two off a product that's been proven to cause cancer? Those little white sticks people put in their mouths? Ciga-something?

Listen, I don't think it's a conspiracy either, and for the record I'm a diehard capitalist, but let's be honest: while it's probably not the rule, there's no shortage of companies who have made a buck at the expense of people's health and welfare.

You'd think making products that everyone knows cause cancer would be "a stupid way of making money" but they're still doing it and making a pretty penny in the process.

Re: John McCain spreading fear about childhood vaccines
 

[quote=FRPLG;430757]From what I understand there is not only no reliable evidence that mecury causes autism there is also no unreliable evidence either. It is one of those strange theoretical ideas that somehow has taken hold and refuses to die. No one has one shred of evidence to support the claim. I do understand that the use of mecury is actually very needed to stabilize vaccines but I am by no means any type of expert. I suspect that if vaccines actually caused autism there'd be a good amount of evidence and uproar. I get really tired of this culture of belief that Big Business and the US Government have the wherewithall to perpetrate conspiracies against people when A) the US Government shows an incredible lack of ability to do anything well, especially keep secrets and B) It is completely counter to Big Business interests to produce a product that exposes them to risks they don't need. They're in business to make money and making products that cause autism is a pretty stupid way of doing it.[/quote]
Yea there has never been any companies that produce a product which cause harm. You have never read the stories about drug companies covering up info about side effects from drugs they produce. You have never heard about a co producing a product which has caused injuries and death and ignored the facts and kept on producing the product. It happens all the time.

Re: John McCain spreading fear about childhood vaccines
 

[QUOTE=firstdown;430765]Yea there has never been any companies that produce a product which cause harm. You have never read the stories about drug companies covering up info about side effects from drugs they produce. You have never heard about a co producing a product which has caused injuries and death and ignored the facts and kept on producing the product. It happens all the time.[/QUOTE]

That's my point... they all get caught. It isn't widespread and when it does happen they get caught. But some people would have us all believe that big business goes out of its way to make products that unecessarily expose them to risk simply to save a few peenies. I think those situations are the exceptions. In this case if the vaccines DO cause autism it would be beyond stupid to continue using mercury(which they are trying to phase out simply because of the bad pub anyways).

And msheig I'll grant you that cigarettes are bad, that everyone knows it and that tobacco companies have known it for ever if you grant that using the tobacco industry as a comparison is darn near impossible given it's history, huge influence on our economy and unique market. There is literally no other industry even remotely like it.

Re: John McCain spreading fear about childhood vaccines
 

[QUOTE=FRPLG;430768]That's my point... they all get caught. It isn't widespread and when it does happen they get caught. But some people would have us all believe that big business goes out of its way to make products that unecessarily expose them to risk simply to save a few peenies. I think those situations are the exceptions. In this case if the vaccines DO cause autism it would be beyond stupid to continue using mercury(which they are trying to phase out simply because of the bad pub anyways).

And msheig I'll grant you that cigarettes are bad, that everyone knows it and that tobacco companies have known it for ever if you grant that using the tobacco industry as a comparison is darn near impossible given it's history, huge influence on our economy and unique market. [B]There is literally no other industry even remotely like it.[/B][/QUOTE]

The pharmaceutical industry seems pretty similar to me. They don't have the same brand loyalty as the tobacco industry does, but on a regular basis we see drugs getting recalled and one class action suit after another against the drug companies.

I don't think they're intentionally producing products that they know will harm people, but I think they tend to downplay the risks and will sometimes just release a product so people will buy it and deal with the consequences later.

It almost seems like a shotgun approach to drug distribution - yeah, a few might be bad but they're making so much money in the process that settling a few $100 million + lawsuits is a drop in the bucket.

Re: John McCain spreading fear about childhood vaccines
 

[quote=70Chip;430748][B]This is yet another example of doctors and[/B] [B]scientists being completely clueless[/B]. They don't understand the first thing about autism and so hysterical mothers and Don Imus are free to speculate wildly.[/quote]
this is about the most ridiculous thing i think anyone has ever posted here

Re: John McCain spreading fear about childhood vaccines
 

[quote=dmek25;430804]this is about the most ridiculous thing i think anyone has ever posted here[/quote]

Hey come on now... Maybe he's a Scientologist.

Re: John McCain spreading fear about childhood vaccines
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;430732]Is this a topic that is particularly close to you? Either personally or professionally.[/QUOTE] I have a family member(Cousin) who has autism.

Re: John McCain spreading fear about childhood vaccines
 

[quote=dmek25;430804]this is about the most ridiculous thing i think anyone has ever posted here[/quote]

When was the last time they cured a disease? We've made demi-gods out of these people and they don't even understand exactly how aspirin works. Chris Rock had the best line. If you're blind, the best medical technology can do for you is give you a dog to haul your blind ass up and down the street.

And no I'm not a scientoligist. Nor am I a Christian Scientist which are the ones that don't believe in doctors. Scientologists oppose Psychiatry because they see therapy as competition for their movement, but I don't believe they oppose medicine per se.

I have no problem with doctors as long as people understand that 150 years from now, people will look back on things like chemotherapy the same way we look back at leaches. But for some reason you can't say anyhting bad about them without raising a shit storm.

Re: John McCain spreading fear about childhood vaccines
 

[quote=70Chip;430862]When was the last time they cured a disease? We've made demi-gods out of these people and they don't even understand exactly how aspirin works. Chris Rock had the best line. If you're blind, the best medical technology can do for you is give you a dog to haul your blind ass up and down the street.

And no I'm not a scientoligist. Nor am I a Christian Scientist which are the ones that don't believe in doctors. Scientologists oppose Psychiatry because they see therapy as competition for their movement, [B]but I don't believe they oppose medicine per se. [/B]

I have no problem with doctors as long as people understand that 150 years from now, people will look back on things like chemotherapy the same way we look back at leaches. But for some reason you can't say anyhting bad about them without raising a shit storm.[/quote]

Just judging from what I've heard they don't use any kind of modern medicine. They tend to be against anything that could "taint" the natural order of things. Just like some fire fighters from 9/11 rejected psychological services and anti-depressants and medicines that would help PTSD, they turned to Scientology and were miraculous "cured".

As a psychology major, preparing for a psychology M.A. I think it's a load. Sure, some psychologists/psychiatrists are far too fast to throw drugs at people for a quick fix, but I believe that the majority of them try to fix those who want to be fixed and do so in a humane and hopefully truly concerned manner. As for those who don't want to be fixed, I have no problem with them rejecting modern day psychiatric methods but don't try to get in the way of those who do want help.

Not trying to hijack the thread, just my two cents. :)

Re: John McCain spreading fear about childhood vaccines
 

i didn't think psychologists could prescribe drugs. I thought that was the difference between them and psychiatrists...

and i don't think you can say scientists and doctors are clueless, since cure rates and life expectancy are way up from the 1800s, and will continue to rise to the best of available knowledge.

I mean, electronic principles and radio communication really hasn't changed much (except for making things smaller) since about the 1920s. calculus, geometry, that whole earth around the sun thing ;)

some things don't change, and besides better biophysical/gene and quantum/nano knowledge, a lot of today's information will still hold true (like balanced diets, exercise, etc).

just because we can't cure everything instantly doesn't make this the dark ages or the pursuit of knowledge worthless, and, by the way, leeches are still used.

Re: John McCain spreading fear about childhood vaccines
 

[quote=That Guy;430978][B]i didn't think psychologists could prescribe drugs. I thought that was the difference between them and psychiatrists...[/B]

and i don't think you can say scientists and doctors are clueless, since cure rates and life expectancy are way up from the 1800s, and will continue to rise to the best of available knowledge.

I mean, electronic principles and radio communication really hasn't changed much (except for making things smaller) since about the 1920s. calculus, geometry, that whole earth around the sun thing ;)

some things don't change, and besides better biophysical/gene and quantum/nano knowledge, a lot of today's information will still hold true (like balanced diets, exercise, etc).

just because we can't cure everything instantly doesn't make this the dark ages or the pursuit of knowledge worthless, and, by the way, leeches are still used.[/quote]

You're right. My mistake. :)

Re: John McCain spreading fear about childhood vaccines
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;430843]Hey come on now... Maybe he's a Scientologist.[/quote]

Funniest post I read all week, I just spit half my beer on my monitor. Kudos to you.

Re: John McCain spreading fear about childhood vaccines
 

[quote=erik2680;430719]The truth is that their is no evidence that Ethyl mercury causes autism.

No in science[/quote]

There's at least as much evidence as cars causing the Earth to catch on fire. :)

Re: John McCain spreading fear about childhood vaccines
 

Man, I hope Obama gets these kinds of pointless threads dedicated to him too. Otherwise, that would be just be a shame to attack someone over one little insignificant (in the grand scheme of things) comment.

Re: John McCain spreading fear about childhood vaccines
 

^

Oh he does. When anyone says his full name in public, it's "hate speech"! :D

Re: John McCain spreading fear about childhood vaccines
 

[QUOTE=Buster;431292]^

Oh he does. When anyone says his full name in public, it's "hate speech"! :D[/QUOTE]

Dumb comment.

Unfortunately, even people in his own party are making dumb comments

[url=http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Vote2008/story?id=4435376&page=1]ABC News: Ferraro 'Absolutely Not' Sorry for Comment[/url]

Jsarno, I think that the original poster started this thread because it is of personal interest to him. But we wouldn't have known that based on the original post. Otherwise, you're right, it's nothing more than "Presidential Candidate Comments On Issue During Campaign Year"

Re: John McCain spreading fear about childhood vaccines
 

you guys can save yourself some space around here. just put all the dumb, political nonsense right in this thread

Re: John McCain spreading fear about childhood vaccines
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;431294]Dumb comment.

Unfortunately, even people in his own party are making dumb comments

[url=http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Vote2008/story?id=4435376&page=1]ABC News: Ferraro 'Absolutely Not' Sorry for Comment[/url]

Jsarno, I think that the original poster started this thread because it is of personal interest to him. But we wouldn't have known that based on the original post. Otherwise, you're right, it's nothing more than "Presidential Candidate Comments On Issue During Campaign Year"[/QUOTE]

I'm not so sure those comments by Ferraro are completely off base though. Obama is almost to cult hero status, when was the last politician that popular? We are so eager to scream racism, we completely dismiss...well...racism. I have heard people actually say they would vote for Obama cause he's black. (which makes me laugh cause he's not) If you vote for someone cause he's black, guess what? You're a racist. Now, if you vote for someone cause of what they stand for, then that's cool. Unfortunately, not many that I have encountered could even tell you the state Senator Obama is from. So do I think Ferraro made dumb comments, yes. Do I think they are completely off base...absolutely not.

ps- That's the best sig I've seen from you SS.

Re: John McCain spreading fear about childhood vaccines
 

[QUOTE=jsarno;431577]I'm not so sure those comments by Ferraro are completely off base though. Obama is almost to cult hero status, when was the last politician that popular? We are so eager to scream racism, we completely dismiss...well...racism. I have heard people actually say they would vote for Obama cause he's black. (which makes me laugh cause he's not) If you vote for someone cause he's black, guess what? You're a racist. Now, if you vote for someone cause of what they stand for, then that's cool. Unfortunately, not many that I have encountered could even tell you the state Senator Obama is from. So do I think Ferraro made dumb comments, yes. Do I think they are completely off base...absolutely not.

ps- That's the best sig I've seen from you SS.[/QUOTE]

Sounds like you hang out with some real dimwits Jsarno.

Re: John McCain spreading fear about childhood vaccines
 

[QUOTE=jsarno;431577]I'm not so sure those comments by Ferraro are completely off base though. Obama is almost to cult hero status, when was the last politician that popular? We are so eager to scream racism, we completely dismiss...well...racism. I have heard people actually say they would vote for Obama cause he's black. (which makes me laugh cause he's not) If you vote for someone cause he's black, guess what? You're a racist. Now, if you vote for someone cause of what they stand for, then that's cool. Unfortunately, not many that I have encountered could even tell you the state Senator Obama is from. So do I think Ferraro made dumb comments, yes. Do I think they are completely off base...absolutely not.

ps- That's the best sig I've seen from you SS.[/QUOTE]

And I just saw this....Obama is not black? His dad is from Kenya. What in god's name are you talking about?

Re: John McCain spreading fear about childhood vaccines
 

Yeah, I just felt like she was especially being insulting to many who support Obama-whether they be Black, White, Indigo, whatever. I don't claim to be one of them, but I think the majority his supporters (throughout his political history) have legitimate reasons to support him.

I don't think this was the case for Ferraro, but I often wonder when comments such as hers are made are they made on purpose to allow a candidate to swoop in and "save the day" I mean there are so many "fall guys" in politics, I just can't help but think that there is a part of HC's camp that says "Ok, we need to create a situation so bad that Hillary can step right in and look good in return. Maybe, most likely, I'm just being cynical.

As for the sig. Thanks. :)

Re: John McCain spreading fear about childhood vaccines
 

[QUOTE=djnemo65;431585]And I just saw this....Obama is not black? His dad is from Kenya. What in god's name are you talking about?[/QUOTE]

I think he meant not 100%. Isn't his mother a Caucasian American, and he was raised by his mother and his Indonesian stepfather

Re: John McCain spreading fear about childhood vaccines
 

[QUOTE=djnemo65;431585]And I just saw this....Obama is not black? His dad is from Kenya. What in god's name are you talking about?[/QUOTE]

No he's not black...he's only part. His mother is just as white as his father is black. Just cause he embraces his black roots over his caucasian roots doesn't make him any more black.
If you are an Obama supporter, this is the kind of thing I am talking about. Know your candidate before supporting one.

Re: John McCain spreading fear about childhood vaccines
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;431586]Yeah, I just felt like she was especially being insulting to many who support Obama-whether they be Black, White, Indigo, whatever. I don't claim to be one of them, but I think the majority his supporters (throughout his political history) have legitimate reasons to support him.[/quote]

I think you are right. The majority is a good way to describe the supporters, but what about the others? I do feel there are a lot of supporters that don't have a clue who he is. Why do you think that is?
You are probably right about her intent of the comment as well.


[quote]As for the sig. Thanks. :)[/QUOTE]

Your welcome.

Re: John McCain spreading fear about childhood vaccines
 

[QUOTE=djnemo65;431584]Sounds like you hang out with some real dimwits Jsarno.[/QUOTE]

And why is that? Cause I am not afraid to break down barriers and speak without fear of being politically correct?

Sometimes, some people need to learn that there is more to see of this world than the view they see of the inside of thier own anus.

Re: John McCain spreading fear about childhood vaccines
 

[QUOTE=jsarno;431633]No he's not black...he's only part. His mother is just as white as his father is black. Just cause he embraces his black roots over his caucasian roots doesn't make him any more black.
If you are an Obama supporter, this is the kind of thing I am talking about. Know your candidate before supporting one.[/QUOTE]

He's black enough to split the white vote in Mississippi and Alabama pretty much along racial lines. Yes, there are idiots who voted for him simply because he is black, but there are as many if not more idiots who won't vote for him because he is black. To say that a black man named Barak Hussein Obama has an unfair political advantage over white politicians is, IMO, dumb.

As for him not being black enough, IMO if you're 50% African American, you're black because that's how the majority of people would define you.

Re: John McCain spreading fear about childhood vaccines
 

[QUOTE=jsarno;431636]I think you are right. The majority is a good way to describe the supporters, but what about the others? I do feel there are a lot of supporters that don't have a clue who he is. Why do you think that is?
You are probably right about her intent of the comment as well. [/QUOTE]

Classic Family Guy

[url=http://video.aol.com/partner/hulu/family-guy-lois-sways-idiot-undecideds/CQNudipLaNciZwGE7iaD_HXLy_Uzjp2W]Family Guy - AOL Video[/url]

Re: John McCain spreading fear about childhood vaccines
 

[QUOTE=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;431638]He's black enough to split the white vote in Mississippi and Alabama pretty much along racial lines. Yes, there are idiots who voted for him simply because he is black, but there are as many if not more idiots who won't vote for him because he is black. To say that a black man named Barak Hussein Obama has an unfair political advantage over white politicians is, IMO, dumb.[/quote]

There was a guy on CNN (a black man, can't remember his name cause I saw him in the Phoenix airport back in late January) that said that there just isn't the white racism in the world that people think. I tend to believe him. Sure it still exists in certain areas...there are always racists about every race, but overall it's just not there like it used to be. Maybe it's due to P.C., maybe it's due to awareness...who knows. But white people are just not as racist as people think.
You do have to ask yourself why Obama is getting well over 90% of the black votes, but yet across the country, there is no real correlation of who the white people are voting for. If white people were THAT racist, then Hilary would be running away with most states.

ps- I could safely assume that a lot of people do not in fact know that he is part white, and do not in fact know his middle name is Hussien. Most of you guys in the DC area know this stuff well cause politics are shoved down your throat 24/7. The rest of the world is not as educated (as a whole) when it comes to politics.

[quote]As for him not being black enough, IMO if you're 50% African American, you're black because that's how the majority of people would define you.[/QUOTE]

I never said he wasn't "black enough". Just that he's not black. Just like Tiger Woods is not black.
Be very careful as to how you lump your assumptions because the "majority" of people believe it.
The majority of older Christians believe that evolution is not true.
The majority of the population used to believe the world was flat.
The majority of scientists believed the atom was the smallest thing in the world.

Kind of reminds me of the Lincoln quote:
"You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time."
The majority is not always right.

Re: John McCain spreading fear about childhood vaccines
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;431643]Classic Family Guy

[url=http://video.aol.com/partner/hulu/family-guy-lois-sways-idiot-undecideds/CQNudipLaNciZwGE7iaD_HXLy_Uzjp2W]Family Guy - AOL Video[/url][/QUOTE]

Gotta love family guy quotes.
That's funny, and sadly based in fact.