What this all means for Moss?
 

With the addition of our new recievers from the draft and all the speculation on how big of an impact they will make, I can't help but to get excited for Santana. I personally think we have all seen a decline in his production (partly to injuries). I Feel as though he should have a very good year, possibly his best year as a Redskin yet. With the new offense and all the draftees, this could turn out to be a very good rebounding year for him.

Re: What this all means for Moss?
 

[QUOTE=chrisl4064;447089] (partly [due] to injuries). [/QUOTE]

The story of Moss's career. The dude can't stay healthy.

Re: What this all means for Moss?
 

Yeah, I mean Moss is a guy who really only has one signature season in his entire career (2005). I love the guy but I think his career is really at a crossroads this year. If he is going to bounce back and be a game changing receiver again it is going to have to happen this season.

Re: What this all means for Moss?
 

I agree, I feel like he could have a great year. He'll be #1 and all those targets should help him get open. He's damn fast and I'm sure he'll be fine in the WCO.

Re: What this all means for Moss?
 

The writing is on the wall for Moss. I'm very disappointed in him, personally. He had stone hands last year, and gave up many times. The one that sticks out in my mind is after an int (that went right through his hands) he tossed his hands up -- didn't chase the CB.

Re: What this all means for Moss?
 

[QUOTE=Daseal;447098]The writing is on the wall for Moss. I'm very disappointed in him, personally. He had stone hands last year, and gave up many times. The one that sticks out in my mind is after an int (that went right through his hands) he tossed his hands up -- didn't chase the CB.[/QUOTE]


If you're talking about the Seattle game it did not go right through his hands, and I don't believe he realized it was intercepted (pulled a Jeremy Shockey)

Re: What this all means for Moss?
 

[quote=CPAlltheWay012;447102]If you're talking about the Seattle game it did not go right through his hands, and I don't believe he realized it was intercepted (pulled a Jeremy Shockey)[/quote]


I think he means the Green Bay game.

I can agree that statistically Moss ' 2005 season was the best but I can remember a couple of game changing catches that few receivers in the NFL could have made. I think he's at his best when the catch is critical and requires perfect agility/timing.

Re: What this all means for Moss?
 

[quote=djnemo65;447095]Yeah, I mean Moss is a guy who really only has one signature season in his entire career (2005). I love the guy but I think his career is really at a crossroads this year. If he is going to bounce back and be a game changing receiver again it is going to have to happen this season.[/quote]

He had a really good year in 2003 for the Jets actually (1,100 yards, 10 tds). And I think if you think really hard about Moss when he was healthy last year then you might recall some great catches. He's a game-changer, he just is hurt too often. As much as it pains me to say it, Jason also missed him on more than a few occasions last year when he was wide open (the Eagles game in Week 2 comes to mind, but there were other occasions as well). Not to mention he is a certified Cowboy killer, even in the first game when he was injured.

Week 11 @ Dallas - 9 catches, 121 yards, 1 td
Week 17 v. Dallas - 8 catches, 115 yards, 1 td

[quote=Daseal;447098]The writing is on the wall for Moss. I'm very disappointed in him, personally. He had stone hands last year, and gave up many times. The one that sticks out in my mind is after an int (that went right through his hands) he tossed his hands up -- didn't chase the CB.[/quote]

I guess you missed the end of the season?

Re: What this all means for Moss?
 

When Santana is on the field, opponents must respect his speed, often keeping a safety deep just to account for the home run threat. By spreading the ball around in a WCO, Santana will probably never repeat 2005, but he'll have his share of long TDs and Jason's numbers will skyrocket once he and the receivers are on the same page in the offense. With the addition of 3 big receivers in the draft, Cooley's red zone TDs will also go down, but Campbell will have more success given multiple options.

Re: What this all means for Moss?
 

Moss reminds me of Mark Brunell. That seems ridiculous but let me explain. Back in 2005 when Brunell threw 23 TDs and took us to the playoffs, he was completely, 100% healthy. He had no knee pain. Whenever the guy had the slightest bit of pain in his legs, he was no longer able to step into his throws or move in the pocket properly, and consequently he looked like a high school QB.

Moss is the same way. When his legs/feet are 100% pain free, he's a top WR in the game, because he can push off and change direction so suddenly, not to mention flat out burn dudes downfield. But way too many times he has some sort of nagging problem, a hamstring, a toe, a knee, whatever. He's never at 100%.

I don't have high hopes for him. I see him getting hurt for us at some point this season. At times he'll be great, and at many other times he'll disappear.

Re: What this all means for Moss?
 

The big question of course is can he stay healthy? If he can I believe he could have a nice season with all the other weapons around him now and a more wide open offense.

Re: What this all means for Moss?
 

I think more options in the offense helps him out health wise there will no be not to much strain on him to make plays and he will take less of a beating because of it

Re: What this all means for Moss?
 

[quote=Schneed10;447112]Moss reminds me of Mark Brunell. That seems ridiculous but let me explain. Back in 2005 when Brunell threw 23 TDs and took us to the playoffs, he was completely, 100% healthy. He had no knee pain. Whenever the guy had the slightest bit of pain in his legs, he was no longer able to step into his throws or move in the pocket properly, and consequently he looked like a high school QB.

Moss is the same way. When his legs/feet are 100% pain free, he's a top WR in the game, because he can push off and change direction so suddenly, not to mention flat out burn dudes downfield. But way too many times he has some sort of nagging problem, a hamstring, a toe, a knee, whatever. He's never at 100%.

I don't have high hopes for him. I see him getting hurt for us at some point this season. At times he'll be great, and at many other times he'll disappear.[/quote]

You bring up a real good point here. It's just how the guy is built. He's always going to have some kind of injury and that is why we drafted two wr's in the 2nd round.

Re: What this all means for Moss?
 

[quote=skinsfan69;447123]You bring up a real good point here. It's just how the guy is built. He's always going to have some kind of injury and that is why we drafted two wr's in the 2nd round.[/quote]

Yeah. I mean don't get me wrong, he's still the best WR we have by a long shot. Hopefully Thomas and Kelly turn into something, but right now they're just rookies and rookies rarely light up the field in year one.

I also don't think the team is writing Moss off just yet, he's still viewed as our top WR and is heavily counted on. But he does need to show that he can be available and a strong contributor even when hurt, or he's in danger of being on the outs.

I personally see iffy production from all of our WRs this year. I think the new offense is going to take time to click, Campbell will go looking for his WRs but won't always be confident that they're on the same page, and Cooley will be picking up a big part of the slack as Campbell will use him as a safety valve more and more.

So that leads me back to the running game. We go as Portis and the line go, West Coast Offense or not.

Re: What this all means for Moss?
 

Moss is easy, jam him at the line and double team him. That has been the opponent's method since he came here and it has been successful. With a huge target in Kelly, and a quick, large target in Thomas, added with a true slot burner in ARE, there will not be enough CB's to hang with Moss. He will have a bounceback season to remember and I think he will have the opportunity to silence all of his critics for years to come. And speaking of the Green Bay game, Moss was injured during that game. If not for him we would not have had even 3 healthy receivers. He blew that game for us but his heart was there. With no O line and Green Bay's run stopping dynamics, we couldnt utilize Portis like we wanted to. We hung in there though and put up a fight IMO.

Re: What this all means for Moss?
 

Honestly, I think our rookie WRs will shine initially when Moss is taking double coverage away from them...

Re: What this all means for Moss?
 

[QUOTE=TheMalcolmConnection;447133]Honestly, I think our rookie WRs will shine initially when Moss is taking double coverage away from them...[/QUOTE]

I can live with that too. If thats the case it will vary from game to game. For every double team there will be an open WR who can take it to the house.

Re: What this all means for Moss?
 

[quote=TheMalcolmConnection;447133]Honestly, I think our rookie WRs will shine initially when Moss is taking double coverage away from them...[/quote]

Highly doubtful. The last rookie WR to truly "shine" was Anquan Boldin.

Re: What this all means for Moss?
 

[quote=Schneed10;447137]Highly doubtful. The last rookie WR to truly "shine" was Anquan Boldin.[/quote]

Marques Colston might disagree. But, of course, you are right that most don't do all that well.

Re: What this all means for Moss?
 

[quote=TheMalcolmConnection;447133]Honestly, I think our rookie WRs will shine initially when Moss is taking double coverage away from them...[/quote]

Personally, I'm not expecting much from either of these guys this year. Rookie wr's never ever do shit the first year of two. Even Calvin Johnson struggled last year.

Re: What this all means for Moss?
 

[quote=skinsfan69;447145]Personally, I'm not expecting much from either of these guys this year. Rookie wr's never ever do shit the first year of two. Even Calvin Johnson struggled last year.[/quote]

If by "never ever do shit" you mean don't gain 1,000+ yards then you have some argument. But to say they can't contribute is an overstatement. As stated above, Marques Colson had 1,000+ in 2006; Dwayne Bowe had 900+ last year; and Calvin Johnson had 756 yards and 4 tds (which is disappointing mostly because so much was expected of him, but he was also injured); James Jones had 676 yards; Greg Jennings had 630 yards in 2006; etc. It is possible for rookies to contribute, even shine in spots, and help win some games. If you are expecting 1,200 yards then, yeah, you will end up disappointed.

Re: What this all means for Moss?
 

I'm thinking in terms of relativity. I'm not saying they'll post 1200+ yards in receiving. I think they'll shine when it comes to comparing other rookie WRs next year. I think one of them will get over 800 yards receiving and a couple TDs.

Re: What this all means for Moss?
 

[quote=Schneed10;447137]Highly doubtful. The last rookie WR to truly "shine" was Anquan Boldin.[/quote]


Dwayne Bowe
Marques Colston

Both got their shine on as rookies

Re: What this all means for Moss?
 

Moss has been a great player for us overall. Of course he's been hurt & has a propensity to be so, but he's made a lot of big plays & has been a solid team guy. Top wr's are hard to come by, and he may not be a top 5 guy, he's close when healthy.

He needs help & they just got him some. While I don't expect those guys to put up big #s in year 1, if they can have decent rookie years (30-40 catches maybe) then it could help MOss a bit. LIke someone said earlier, they're going to struggle some in this new offense. Maybe mid to late season the rooks will hit their form & the O will come together.

I think the real question is what becomes of Santana & ARE in a year or two if and when Mix, Thomas & Kelly start to play well?

Re: What this all means for Moss?
 

Has anyone else noticed that Satana Moss makes most of his plays going up for high jump balls? Bare with me a sec, When Brunell was shotputing the ball because he could not throw on a straight line further than 5 yards down the field in 2005 and Collins was lofting the ball at the end of last year Moss was having his biggest impact outplaying DBs for the ball. Cambell's ball is more on a rope and does not give Moss the time to do what he does best, adjust to the ball and go up for the catch. I know injury played a role in Moss's 2007, but I got the feeling that he responded better to Collins' passes that looked like punts than he did to JC's passes that were on a rope 30 yards down the field.

Re: What this all means for Moss?
 

[quote=DGreene28;447150]Dwayne Bowe
Marques Colston

Both got their shine on as rookies[/quote]

Yeah true that on Colston. Bowe was decent last year, but I wouldn't say "shine".

But even if you count him in there, you had Boldin, then Colston, then Bowe. That's what, 3 WRs in like 5 years? Odds aren't good.

Kelly especially is very raw. I do think that Thomas has a good chance to be the best rookie WR in the league this year. 800 yards is a good target for him. Will that set the league on fire? No. And it won't make us a juggernaut offense, because ARE is going to take a step back.

The only way our passing game really gets cranking is if Moss somehow stays fully healthy and the team gets on the same page with Campbell in a hurry.

In the end, I'm looking at Portis to carry us on his back. In 2010 I'll look for a more dynamic passing game. 2009 is time for growing pains.

Re: What this all means for Moss?
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10;447159]Yeah true that on Colston. Bowe was decent last year, but I wouldn't say "shine".

But even if you count him in there, you had Boldin, then Colston, then Bowe. That's what, 3 WRs in like 5 years? Odds aren't good.

Kelly especially is very raw. I do think that Thomas has a good chance to be the best rookie WR in the league this year. 800 yards is a good target for him. Will that set the league on fire? No. And it won't make us a juggernaut offense, because ARE is going to take a step back.

The only way our passing game really gets cranking is if Moss somehow stays fully healthy and the team gets on the same page with Campbell in a hurry.

In the end, I'm looking at Portis to carry us on his back. In 2010 I'll look for a more dynamic passing game. 2009 is time for growing pains.[/QUOTE]

I agree that Moss needs to play for the passing game to excel. He is the only one with speed that can command a double team and keep the safety honest. At this point I don't think anyone else does. Hopefully the rookies will get there, but we won't know until probably December about that.

I also think the offensive line will be the biggest factor in how we do offensively. If Jansen and Thomas don't come back to their old playing forms then it could be a long season especially if anyone goes down.

Re: What this all means for Moss?
 

Not to sound too much like a broken record, but as long as Santana stays healthy, he's going to have a very productive year.

Re: What this all means for Moss?
 

By drafting Thomas, Davis, and Kelly, the Redskins sent a message we already received loud and clear ... we needed better depth at wide receiver, Jason Campbell needed bigger targets (particularly for the red zone), and we should not count on Moss being healthy. That said, I think Moss is still capable of being pretty dominant when healthy. Moss is a fast and agile and has great ball skills.

I would think that Moss will have a 1,000+ yard season, but Antwaan and Cooley will see their production will drop slightly. Jason can only spread the ball around so much.

Re: What this all means for Moss?
 

[quote=GhostSkins;447158]Has anyone else noticed that Satana Moss makes most of his plays going up for high jump balls? Bare with me a sec, When Brunell was shotputing the ball because he could not throw on a straight line further than 5 yards down the field in 2005 and Collins was lofting the ball at the end of last year Moss was having his biggest impact outplaying DBs for the ball. Cambell's ball is more on a rope and does not give Moss the time to do what he does best, adjust to the ball and go up for the catch. I know injury played a role in Moss's 2007, but I got the feeling that he responded better to Collins' passes that looked like punts than he did to JC's passes that were on a rope 30 yards down the field.[/quote]
Well it seemed that all of our WR's played better for Collins. JC while he did improve last year still seemed to over throw his longer passes and under throw the shorter stuff. JC also I think in some games would lock onto a WR and miss the open player down field. When we lost to the Giants I was at the game and even my wife noticed in 1/2 dozen or more plays we had someone wide open which JC just did not see. Moss also had a game or two where he just could not hang on to the football which I think he was trying to hard to play and not rlying on his natural ability.

Re: What this all means for Moss?
 

I don't think the QB delivery has anything to do with it. When Collins took over Moss was finally getting healthy and they just seemed to click better, probably because Collins could see the field better and make better reads.

Re: What this all means for Moss?
 

[quote=GhostSkins;447158]Has anyone else noticed that Satana Moss makes most of his plays going up for high jump balls? Bare with me a sec, When Brunell was shotputing the ball because he could not throw on a straight line further than 5 yards down the field in 2005 and Collins was lofting the ball at the end of last year Moss was having his biggest impact outplaying DBs for the ball. Cambell's ball is more on a rope and does not give Moss the time to do what he does best, adjust to the ball and go up for the catch. I know injury played a role in Moss's 2007, but I got the feeling that he responded better to Collins' passes that looked like punts than he did to JC's passes that were on a rope 30 yards down the field.[/quote]
Well it seemed that all of our WR's played better for Collins. JC while he did improve last year still seemed to over throw his longer passes and under throw the shorter stuff. JC also I think in some games would lock onto a WR and miss the open player down field. When we lost to the Giants I was at the game and even my wife noticed in 1/2 dozen or more plays we had someone wide open which JC just did not see. Moss also had a game or two where he just could not hang on to the football which I think he was trying to hard to play and not rlying on his natural ability.

Re: What this all means for Moss?
 

[quote=Schneed10;447159]Yeah true that on Colston. Bowe was decent last year, but I wouldn't say "shine".

But even if you count him in there, you had Boldin, then Colston, then Bowe. That's what, 3 WRs in like 5 years? Odds aren't good.

Kelly especially is very raw. I do think that Thomas has a good chance to be the best rookie WR in the league this year. 800 yards is a good target for him. Will that set the league on fire? No. And it won't make us a juggernaut offense, because ARE is going to take a step back.

The only way our passing game really gets cranking is if Moss somehow stays fully healthy and the team gets on the same page with Campbell in a hurry.

In the end, I'm looking at Portis to carry us on his back. In 2010 I'll look for a more dynamic passing game. 2009 is time for growing pains.[/quote]

We'll have to agree to disagree on Bowe... or maybe our definitions of "Shine" are a little different. I will agree that it is not the norm for a WR to make a major impact his rookie year. I do think Thomas, Kelly and Davis will all make decent contributions this season but not at the level of Bowe or Colston in their rookie seasons.

Re: What this all means for Moss?
 

[quote=SC Skins Fan;447147]If by "never ever do shit" you mean don't gain 1,000+ yards then you have some argument. But to say they can't contribute is an overstatement. As stated above, Marques Colson had 1,000+ in 2006; Dwayne Bowe had 900+ last year; and Calvin Johnson had 756 yards and 4 tds (which is disappointing mostly because so much was expected of him, but he was also injured); James Jones had 676 yards; Greg Jennings had 630 yards in 2006; etc. It is possible for rookies to contribute, even shine in spots, and help win some games. If you are expecting 1,200 yards then, yeah, you will end up disappointed.[/quote]

Yes these are all good examples. But for every Marucs Colston there are 3-4 Chad Jackson's. I hope these guys come in and contribute right away. Thomas seems more ready to play right away.

Re: What this all means for Moss?
 

Moss isn't totally useless when banged up, and he had a poor year last year.

I mean, he was banged up in 2006 and did just fine. He'll never be as good as he was in 2005 again, and very few will, but he can be our No. 1 outside target even when he's hurt. We just need him to hold on to the ball better than he did last season.

Re: What this all means for Moss?
 

[quote=DGreene28;447201]We'll have to agree to disagree on Bowe... or maybe our definitions of "Shine" are a little different. I will agree that it is not the norm for a WR to make a major impact his rookie year. I do think Thomas, Kelly and Davis will all make decent contributions this season but not at the level of Bowe or Colston in their rookie seasons.[/quote]Michael Clayton also had a great rookie year. Hasn't done much since though.

Re: What this all means for Moss?
 

This type of stuff happens all the time in the NFL. Everyone thinks that some guy is past his prime (or in some cases a bust), the team brings in some young blood, and all of a sudden the guy has a career year. Ok maybe Drew Brees is the only guy I can think of but I have a feeling that Moss is going to have a season thats closer to his 2005 form then his 2008 form.

With that said, I know that ARE's surgery was only minor, and in some cases routine, but suddenly drafting 3 pass catchers doesn't seem like overkill anymore.

But I wonder if you trust a guy that doesn't have anything done in the offseason or the guy that has routine surgery to be on the safe side?

Re: What this all means for Moss?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;447213]Michael Clayton also had a great rookie year. Hasn't done much since though.[/quote]

Yes he did he...... .........well he........ .......but there was that time that.........vet min?

Re: What this all means for Moss?
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan69;447210]Yes these are all good examples. But for every Marucs Colston there are 3-4 Chad Jackson's. I hope these guys come in and contribute right away. Thomas seems more ready to play right away.[/QUOTE]

I think Kelly is more ready to play right away. Thomas is still a bit raw by comparison.

Re: What this all means for Moss?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;447212]Moss isn't totally useless when banged up, and he had a poor year last year.

I mean, he was banged up in 2006 and did just fine. He'll never be as good as he was in 2005 again, and very few will, but he can be our No. 1 outside target even when he's hurt. We just need him to hold on to the ball better than he did last season.[/quote]

He actually had a better year last year than he did in 2006 as far as catches and yards.

[url=http://www.nfl.com/players/santanamoss/careerstats?id=MOS717844]Santana Moss: Career Stats[/url]