Bush's former press secretary says Bush misled U.S. on Iraq
 

[URL="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/05/27/AR2008052703679.html"]washingtonpost.com[/URL]
Interesting statements by someone who was part of the machine for a long time. The excerpts quoted by the article explain some of the attitude the Bush administration has exhibited. I'm sure he'll be labeled a turncoat by the administration (which, I guess he is, technically).

Re: Bush's former press secretary says Bush misled U.S. on Iraq
 

Interesting article. Thanks for the heads-up.

Re: Bush's former press secretary says Bush misled U.S. on Iraq
 

That's interesting because Washington reporters who were quite hostile to the Bush administration - I am thinking Dana Milbank in particular - always maintained that McLellan was a good guy caught an impossible position. Still stunning to see him take such a public stance on this though.

Re: Bush's former press secretary says Bush misled U.S. on Iraq
 

[quote=djnemo65;450398]That's interesting because Washington reporters who were quite hostile to the Bush administration - I am thinking Dana Milbank in particular - always maintained that McLellan was a good guy caught an impossible position. [B]Still stunning to see him take such a public stance on this though[/B].[/quote]
He is just trying to sell his book.

Re: Bush's former press secretary says Bush misled U.S. on Iraq
 

like the vast majority doesnt know this already.

Re: Bush's former press secretary says Bush misled U.S. on Iraq
 

[QUOTE=steveo395;450403]He is just trying to sell his book.[/QUOTE]

He's obviously trying to sell his book but the problem is that other republicans with books to sell - Paul O'Neal, Kevin Phillips, Richard Clarke - have alleged the exact same things.

Re: Bush's former press secretary says Bush misled U.S. on Iraq
 

McClellan has some kind words for Bush, calling him "a man of personal charm, wit and enormous political skill." He writes that the president "did not consciously set out to engage in these destructive practices. But like others before him, he chose to play the Washington game the way he found it, rather than changing the culture as he vowed to do at the outset of his campaign for the presidency."

This seems to be the case with many elected officials. Let's see if that changes with the next President.

Re: Bush's former press secretary says Bush misled U.S. on Iraq
 

[quote=SmootSmack;450408]McClellan has some kind words for Bush, calling him "a man of personal charm, wit and enormous political skill." He writes that the president "did not consciously set out to engage in these destructive practices. But like others before him, he chose to play the Washington game the way he found it, rather than changing the culture as he vowed to do at the outset of his campaign for the presidency."[/quote]This right here is why I feel that GW2 is a rather unremarkable president.

Lots of the decisions he made, that people hound him for, seemed to be decisions of circumstance. A better man perhaps would have gone beyond the status quo, and made the less fundamental decision and would have produced better results, but GW pretty much was the run-of-the-mill decision maker.

We've seen better, we've seen worse, and we will probably have worse in the future. That's my official position on the Bush Administration.

Re: Bush's former press secretary says Bush misled U.S. on Iraq
 

[QUOTE=GTripp0012;450410]This right here is why I feel that GW2 is a rather unremarkable president.

Lots of the decisions he made, that people hound him for, seemed to be decisions of circumstance. A better man perhaps would have gone beyond the status quo, and made the less fundamental decision and would have produced better results, but GW pretty much was the run-of-the-mill decision maker.

We've seen better, we've seen worse, and we will probably have worse in the future. That's my official position on the Bush Administration.[/QUOTE]

Couldn't have said it better. Bush the president was average in most respects. Good in a few respects and awfule in a few others. I don't think he is a bad guy but I think his admiistration was a joke. He had power mongers who had no problem throwing him under the bus as they steered him off course. A stronger man could have prevented this. I don't fault him for that as much as I feel disappointed. I fault guys like Cheney and Rumsfeld who screwed up everything in the name of politics.

Re: Bush's former press secretary says Bush misled U.S. on Iraq
 

[QUOTE=FRPLG;450413]Couldn't have said it better. Bush the president was average in most respects. Good in a few respects and awfule in a few others. I don't think he is a bad guy but I think his admiistration was a joke. He had power mongers who had no problem throwing him under the bus as they steered him off course. A stronger man could have prevented this. I don't fault him for that as much as I feel disappointed. I fault guys like Cheney and Rumsfeld who screwed up everything in the name of politics.[/QUOTE]

Yeah I definitely think, from all I've heard and read, that Rumsfeld played a huge role in all this mess. More so than advertised. W's decision to essentially fill his staff with people who have been in the White House since the Ford administration was probably more so a curse than a blessing. I think it's important to have a mix of established people and fresh faces. Or he could have done like my man Ike and totally gone with outsiders.

Re: Bush's former press secretary says Bush misled U.S. on Iraq
 

[quote=SmootSmack;450408]McClellan has some kind words for Bush, calling him "a man of personal charm, wit and enormous political skill." He writes that the president "did not consciously set out to engage in these destructive practices. [B]But like others before him, he chose to play the Washington game the way he found it, rather than changing the culture as he vowed to do at the outset of his campaign for the presidency."[/B]

This seems to be the case with many elected officials. Let's see if that changes with the next President.[/quote]

This is a very important statement in my mind. For me it begs the question, who of the upcoming presidential candidates, if any, have the "balls" to change the culture of the White House, rather than just go with the flow? Because I'm not entirely sure there are any candidates that would stick with their policies as they said before they became president.

Re: Bush's former press secretary says Bush misled U.S. on Iraq
 

Remember kids, you can't sugarcoat shit and try to pass it of as caramel apple.

[yt]b0sNJhphi7U[/yt]

Re: Bush's former press secretary says Bush misled U.S. on Iraq
 

[quote=SmootSmack;450417]Yeah I definitely think, from all I've heard and read, that Rumsfeld played a huge role in all this mess. More so than advertised. W's decision to essentially fill his staff with people who have been in the White House since the Ford administration was probably more so a curse than a blessing. I think it's important to have a mix of established people and fresh faces. Or he could have done like my man Ike and totally gone with outsiders.[/quote]

rumsfeld almost single handedly f'd the whole thing up himself. the military and various civilian advisers who knew what they were talking about and had planned for the post war contingencies and logistics were completely (and i mean COMPLETELY) ignored, because he thought he was SOO much smarter than everyone else's combined intellect.

we had a plan, but the guy torched it so he could play it by ear. brilliant! i guess it's not that bad, i mean, it's not like those decisions cost large scale loss of life... oh wait.

Re: Bush's former press secretary says Bush misled U.S. on Iraq
 

[quote=saden1;450429]Remember kids, you can't sugarcoat shit and try to pass it of as caramel apple.

[yt]b0sNJhphi7U[/yt][/quote]

wow, i'm generally not a fan of his, but that's pretty amazing.

Re: Bush's former press secretary says Bush misled U.S. on Iraq
 

Is Bush the commander in chief or not? He's not a decorative item in the white house. Apparently his lack of competence seems to give him some leeway around here. Rumsfled this, Rumsfeld that, Bush was standing right next to him and praising him after being forced to resign for god sake. Same goes for Gonzales, same goes Brownie, etc, etc.

Re: Bush's former press secretary says Bush misled U.S. on Iraq
 

Any Republican President that employs someone named Mclellan is obviously asking for trouble. The name itself is synonimous with weakness and disloyalty. If I were President, and someone came to me and said, "Sir, we want to promote McClellan", I would say, "Good Lord ,Man read your history".

[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_B._McClellan]George B. McClellan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/url]

Re: Bush's former press secretary says Bush misled U.S. on Iraq
 

Interesting, what about employing someone with the name McCain as president?

[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cain_and_Abel"]Cain and Abel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/URL]

Re: Bush's former press secretary says Bush misled U.S. on Iraq
 

I know the McClellan book is causing a big stir. I've not read it and probably won't beyond the excerpts seen and heard on tv and radio, but I don't feel his criticism is as warranted as that from Paul O'neill or Richard Clark. For one thing I doubt McClellan sat in on cabinet level meetings where the real dirt gets mixed. Part of what made O'neill's confession so scathing is that he discussed the idiocy witnessed in cabinet meetings... the pres would agree that letting the federal budget fall back into massive deficit was totally unacceptable but at the next meeting (after vp "deficits don't matter" cheney and karl "i don't give an f about responsible public policy" rove had worked the pres over) the story would be completely different.

That said, i understand McClellan is one pissed off mo-fo. I wouldn't take a million dollar cash payment to associate w/ a single person in the admin and would probably put a bullet in my brain before I'd defend policy and appointments from the past 8 years. Bottom line is his job sucked and now he wants revenge... can ya really blame him.

Re: Bush's former press secretary says Bush misled U.S. on Iraq
 

[quote=GTripp0012;450410]This right here is why I feel that GW2 is a rather unremarkable president.

Lots of the decisions he made, that people hound him for, seemed to be decisions of circumstance. A better man perhaps would have gone beyond the status quo, and made the less fundamental decision and would have produced better results, but GW pretty much was the run-of-the-mill decision maker.

We've seen better, we've seen worse, and we will probably have worse in the future. That's my official position on the Bush Administration.[/quote]
What B's GW has gone against the grain and the media for a ton of things that have brought his ratings down just because he thought it was protecting the US. Do I really need to start naming them. There everyday in the news for the past 6 years or so.

Re: Bush's former press secretary says Bush misled U.S. on Iraq
 

Republican, Democrat, Independent, Green, Whig, Tory...doesn't matter. Bush sucks as a president. I don't care how much of a "good guy" he is, he was our worst president besides Hoover. I'd rather have a president who's an asshole as long as he or she knows how to run the country with forsight, intelligence, tact, diplomacy, creativity, toughness, open mindedness and humility. None of which George Bush possesses.

Re: Bush's former press secretary says Bush misled U.S. on Iraq
 

dblanch, tell us how you really feel? i agree with what you said. but you usually steer clear of political discussions

Re: Bush's former press secretary says Bush misled U.S. on Iraq
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;450408]McClellan has some kind words for Bush, calling him "a man of personal charm, wit and enormous political skill." He writes that the president "did not consciously set out to engage in these destructive practices. But like others before him, he chose to play the Washington game the way he found it, rather than changing the culture as he vowed to do at the outset of his campaign for the presidency."
[B]
This seems to be the case with many elected officials. Let's see if that changes with the next President.[/B][/QUOTE]

I won't hold my breath.

Re: Bush's former press secretary says Bush misled U.S. on Iraq
 

[quote=dblanch66;450775]Republican, Democrat, Independent, Green, Whig, Tory...doesn't matter. Bush sucks as a president. I don't care how much of a "good guy" he is, he was our worst president besides Hoover. I'd rather have a president who's an asshole as long as he or she knows how to run the country with forsight, intelligence, tact, diplomacy, creativity, toughness, open mindedness and humility. None of which George Bush possesses.[/quote]

I wasn't alive for Hoover but I was for Jimmy Carter and all the adults around me were ready to revolt if he had been reelected. There's no way he would have survived a second term. He was positively reviled. Also, Bush will not face an impeachment hearing which is something Clinton, Nixon, and Johnson couldn't say. In addition, James Buchanan, who was an homosexual, allowed the country to slip to the brink of civil war, so your history is off.

Re: Bush's former press secretary says Bush misled U.S. on Iraq
 

Christopher Hitchens weighs in:

[url=http://www.slate.com/id/2192696/]If you want to read a serious book about the intervention in Iraq, try War and Decision. - By Christopher Hitchens - Slate Magazine[/url]

Re: Bush's former press secretary says Bush misled U.S. on Iraq
 

[QUOTE=70Chip;451036]I wasn't alive for Hoover but I was for Jimmy Carter and all the adults around me were ready to revolt if he had been reelected. There's no way he would have survived a second term. He was positively reviled. Also, Bush will not face an impeachment hearing which is something Clinton, Nixon, and Johnson couldn't say. In addition, James Buchanan, who was an homosexual, allowed the country to slip to the brink of civil war, so your history is off.[/QUOTE]

Everything I heard and read about Carter indicates he was pretty awful, and has only made things worse over the years. Maybe he should have just stuck with Habitat for Humanity

[url]https://www.commentarymagazine.com/viewarticle.cfm/our-worst-ex-president-10824?page=all[/url]

Buchanan is interesting, because his worst crime (apart from apparently being pro-slavery) is that he really did nothing because he felt (I think correctly) that constitutionally he didn't have the power to do anything (in regards to secession). Today, we complain when a President invokes executive power and takes action, but we could have avoided a major civil war had Buchanan (and Pierce) done such a thing over 150 years ago. (I mean I believe Lincoln did so during the Civil War) Then again, it may have made no difference.

As for the homosexual part. I never knew that was actually proven. I've only heard it speculated. Secondly, what does it matter? What was the point of even throwing that comment in there?

Re: Bush's former press secretary says Bush misled U.S. on Iraq
 

This just in: The gov't uses propaganda to "sell" a war. Amazing. Have we ever fought a war where there was no propaganda?

Re: Bush's former press secretary says Bush misled U.S. on Iraq
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;451061]Everything I heard and read about Carter indicates he was pretty awful, and has only made things worse over the years. Maybe he should have just stuck with Habitat for Humanity

[url]https://www.commentarymagazine.com/viewarticle.cfm/our-worst-ex-president-10824?page=all[/url]

Buchanan is interesting, because his worst crime (apart from apparently being pro-slavery) is that he really did nothing because he felt (I think correctly) that constitutionally he didn't have the power to do anything (in regards to secession). Today, we complain when a President invokes executive power and takes action, but we could have avoided a major civil war had Buchanan (and Pierce) done such a thing over 150 years ago. (I mean I believe Lincoln did so during the Civil War) Then again, it may have made no difference. [/QUOTE]

Despite how we view Honest Abe we can trace the socialization of our republic back to his decisions. Up until the Civil war our country operated much differently and more within the ideals of the founding fathers in terms of limited national government. After the war our country became much more nationalistic and states rights have been eroding ever since.

Re: Bush's former press secretary says Bush misled U.S. on Iraq
 

[quote=FRPLG;451086]Despite how we view Honest Abe we can trace the [B]socialization of our republic[/B] back to his decisions. Up until the Civil war our country operated much differently and more within the ideals of the founding fathers in terms of limited national government. After the war our country became much more nationalistic and states rights have been eroding ever since.[/quote]
FDR had a big part in that too

Re: Bush's former press secretary says Bush misled U.S. on Iraq
 

[quote=redsk1;451084]This just in: The gov't uses propaganda to "sell" a war. Amazing. Have we ever fought a war where there was no propaganda?[/quote]
I'd say when the Japanes attacked us at Pearl Harbor that was propaganda enough.

Re: Bush's former press secretary says Bush misled U.S. on Iraq
 

[quote=firstdown;451109]I'd say when the Japanes attacked us at Pearl Harbor that was propaganda enough.[/quote]
Thats why we sent most of our troops to Europe...

Re: Bush's former press secretary says Bush misled U.S. on Iraq
 

[QUOTE=70Chip;451036]I wasn't alive for Hoover but I was for Jimmy Carter and all the adults around me were ready to revolt if he had been reelected. There's no way he would have survived a second term. He was positively reviled. Also, Bush will not face an impeachment hearing which is something Clinton, Nixon, and Johnson couldn't say. In addition, James Buchanan, who was an homosexual, allowed the country to slip to the brink of civil war, so your history is off.[/QUOTE]

Just because Bush didn't face impeachment doesn't mean he SHOULDN'T. He managed to worm out of that due to a lack of intestinal fortitude by the Dems. My history is not "off". I suppose you believe Pearl Harbor was a "surprise attack" and that Oswald acted alone. Mine is a matter of opinion based on fact. Gee...you would't be a ....republican that voted for Bush would you? Hoover was mentioned as an example, not ultimate definition. Were there other bad presidents? Of course. None, however, could possibly have been as braindead and dogmatic as the current President Fuckhead.

Re: Bush's former press secretary says Bush misled U.S. on Iraq
 

[quote=70Chip;451036]I wasn't alive for Hoover but I was for Jimmy Carter and all the adults around me were ready to revolt if he had been reelected. There's no way he would have survived a second term. He was positively reviled. Also, Bush will not face an impeachment hearing which is something Clinton, Nixon, and Johnson couldn't say. In addition, James Buchanan, [B]who was an homosexual[/B], allowed the country to slip to the brink of civil war, so your history is off.[/quote]

All I'm gonna say about this is what does being gay have to do with how well you run the country?

I'm hoping you aren't trying to make a connection between him being gay and being a shitty president?

Re: Bush's former press secretary says Bush misled U.S. on Iraq
 

[quote=dblanch66;451196]Just because Bush didn't face impeachment doesn't mean he SHOULDN'T. He managed to worm out of that due to a lack of intestinal fortitude by the Dems. My history is not "off". I suppose you believe Pearl Harbor was a "surprise attack" and that Oswald acted alone. Mine is a matter of opinion based on fact. Gee...you would't be a ....republican that voted for Bush would you? Hoover was mentioned as an example, not ultimate definition. Were there other bad presidents? Of course. None, however, could possibly have been as braindead and dogmatic as the current President Fuckhead.[/quote]
What law did he break that should have gotten him impeached

Re: Bush's former press secretary says Bush misled U.S. on Iraq
 

[QUOTE=steveo395;451206]What law did he break that should have gotten him impeached[/QUOTE]

This will go nowhere. We already had at least one thread all about this in the past that was highly unproductive

Re: Bush's former press secretary says Bush misled U.S. on Iraq
 

QUOTE=steveo395;451206]What law did he break that should have gotten him impeached[/QUOTE]
:eek: startling. just startling.

Re: Bush's former press secretary says Bush misled U.S. on Iraq
 

I am a Bush basher and was against going to Iraq in the first instance, but I think many people incorrectly think that the GOP has a monopoly on deceit, manipulation, fear mongering, etc. For whatever reason, so many Dems seem to think that their own sh*t doesn't stink. To me, the stench of Dem and Repub pooh stinks equally. It just happens that we are currently up to our eyes in Repub feces. I am waiting for the Dems to get into office so they can take a dump on our faces.

And no....I do not have a pooh fetish.

Re: Bush's former press secretary says Bush misled U.S. on Iraq
 

[QUOTE=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;451268]I am a Bush basher and was against going to Iraq in the first instance, but I think many people incorrectly think that the GOP has a monopoly on deceit, manipulation, fear mongering, etc. For whatever reason, so many Dems seem to think that their own sh*t doesn't stink. To me, the stench of Dem and Repub pooh stinks equally. It just happens that we are currently up to our eyes in Repub feces. I am waiting for the Dems to get into office so they can take a dump on our faces.

And no....I do not have a pooh fetish.[/QUOTE]

whoa. :doh:

Re: Bush's former press secretary says Bush misled U.S. on Iraq
 

[quote=dblanch66;451237]
:eek: startling. just startling.[/quote]Good comeback?

Stick to football, dude.

Re: Bush's former press secretary says Bush misled U.S. on Iraq
 

[quote=dblanch66;451196]Just because Bush didn't face impeachment doesn't mean he SHOULDN'T. He managed to worm out of that due to a lack of intestinal fortitude by the Dems. My history is not "off". I suppose you believe Pearl Harbor was a "surprise attack" and that Oswald acted alone. Mine is a matter of opinion based on fact. Gee...you would't be a ....republican that voted for Bush would you? Hoover was mentioned as an example, not ultimate definition. Were there other bad presidents? Of course. None, however, could possibly have been as braindead and dogmatic as the current President Fuckhead.[/quote]

Dude, I think Asian American is the preferred nomenclature. But to your points:

1. The Democrats do lack intestinal fortitude, but they also lack even a sniff of a rationale for impeachment. You have to have something.

2. I think a strong case can be made that someone must have at least had an inclination that the Japanese were about to move. However, wouldn't that mean that you should have cited Roosevelt instead of Hoover? Hoover was incompetent in the face of economic crisis, but he never engaged in that sort of deceit.

3. Indeed, I do believe that Oswald acted alone.

4. While I am not formally affiliated with the Republican Party, I have only voted for two Democrats in my life. The first time was an accident. In those days the ballots in Virginia did not identify the candidates by party and this guy sure sounded like a Republican. The second time was in the recent primary when I cast my vote for HRC. And, before you accuse me of doing Limbaugh's bidding, I thought of it first. Sort of. In 2000 a lot of Liberals here voted strategically for McCain and I merely followed their excellent example.

Re: Bush's former press secretary says Bush misled U.S. on Iraq
 

[QUOTE=GTripp0012;451360]Good comeback?

Stick to football, dude.[/QUOTE]

Hurt. Pain. You beast!