Updated: Landry Reports to OTAs, Springs Still a No-Show
 

Zorn doesn't seem happy about this. Springs' absence is no shocker, but I guess Laron is treating offseason workouts like he does his autograph signings.

[URL="http://blog.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/"]Redskins Insider[/URL]

re: Updated: Landry Reports to OTAs, Springs Still a No-Show
 

good news, bad news, but the bad isn't that much.

I like that James is said to be 90%ish, that's pretty good at this point. He might be ready to go full out come training camp. Preseason will be good to watch this year, a no. of position battles & young guys trying to make it.

re: Updated: Landry Reports to OTAs, Springs Still a No-Show
 

[quote=freddyg12;450877]good news, bad news, but the bad isn't that much.

I like that James is said to be 90%ish, that's pretty good at this point. He might be ready to go full out come training camp. Preseason will be good to watch this year, a no. of position battles & young guys trying to make it.[/quote]

I find it hard to believe James is 90% less than 6 months after a major ACL surgery.

I'm annoyed that Landry is skipping these workouts.

re: Updated: Landry Reports to OTAs, Springs Still a No-Show
 

Well... these aren't mandatory practices.

As long as they show up ready to rock for mandatory work, I'm not going to get upset over it.

re: Updated: Landry Reports to OTAs, Springs Still a No-Show
 

[quote=Mattyk72;450886]Well... these aren't mandatory practices.

As long as they show up ready to rock for mandatory work, I'm not going to get upset over it.[/quote]

I'd argue that it is indicative of a general lack of maturity from Landry that we saw manifest itself at (critical) times on the field last season with some late hits and taunting fouls. Seems like he is building a less than ideal pattern with some of his decisions. I'm not saying he is going to go all Adam Archuleta on us or anything, so don't misunderstand my point, but I think you'd really like to get a little bit better decision making from a guy you hope will anchor your defense for the forseeable future.

re: Updated: Landry Reports to OTAs, Springs Still a No-Show
 

So what does it say about Springs then?

re: Updated: Landry Reports to OTAs, Springs Still a No-Show
 

[quote=Mattyk72;450886]Well... these aren't mandatory practices.

As long as they show up ready to rock for mandatory work, I'm not going to get upset over it.[/quote]

Springs is a long time vet and has proven his workouts in Arizona get him sufficiently ready for the season. I'm sure they'd rather he be in Ashburn than Arizona, but he's not nearly the concern that Landry is. If the entire team can show up but Landry can't, that says something about the man.

re: Updated: Landry Reports to OTAs, Springs Still a No-Show
 

So Springs gets off the hook?

Interesting.

To me the conversation ends once the words [B]non-mandatory[/B] are mentioned.

re: Updated: Landry Reports to OTAs, Springs Still a No-Show
 

[quote=Mattyk72;450902]So Springs gets off the hook?

Interesting.

To me the conversation ends once the words [B]non-mandatory[/B] are mentioned.[/quote]

Zorn said he's not happy with either player's absence. I simply think Springs' absence is much less of a concern than Landry's. Gibbs always treated OTA's as being "mandatory voluntary," basically meaning he "strongly" encouraged everyone to show up. And aside from Springs last year, he always got perfect attendance. Didn't Zorn make it a point to stress the same thing this year? Landry is only a second year player, not a perennial pro-bowler. Everyone else is there. He should be too.

Obviously neither one of them can be punished or disciplined given the "voluntary" label, but it's a concern.

re: Updated: Landry Reports to OTAs, Springs Still a No-Show
 

[quote=Mattyk72;450902]So Springs gets off the hook?

Interesting.

To me the conversation ends once the words [B]non-mandatory[/B] are mentioned.[/quote]

True, it's nothing to draw any real conclusions from, but it is a slow offseason here!

I think in Springs' case there's the obvious fact that he's a vet & has earned respect from the coaches (granted there's a new sheriff in town). And there's the delicate situation from last year when they tried to get him to take a pay cut. There shouldn't be such a double standard for some players but I believe there is. Apparently the tuna doesn't see it that way w/Jason Taylor.

re: Updated: Landry Reports to OTAs, Springs Still a No-Show
 

Didn't we already go through this once with a hard hitting young safety with a propensity to make a few bonehead plays? Don't read too much into this folks, it didn't hurt Sean and I doubt that it will be a big factor in regards to the development of Laron Landry.

re: Updated: Landry Reports to OTAs, Springs Still a No-Show
 

Yeah I think as long as voluntary is used i'm not concerned. Would you like for them to be there? Of course. They are big boys though. It's voluntary.

re: Updated: Landry Reports to OTAs, Springs Still a No-Show
 

[QUOTE=jdlea;450906]Didn't we already go through this once with a hard hitting young safety with a propensity to make a few bonehead plays? Don't read too much into this folks, it didn't hurt Sean and I doubt that it will be a big factor in regards to the development of Laron Landry.[/QUOTE]

Positive rep points coming your way

re: Updated: Landry Reports to OTAs, Springs Still a No-Show
 

I remember going through this same discussion with Springs last year, but it's funny I don't recall many people backing him up like now.

Of course Zorn isn't happy about it. He shouldn't be. But at the end of the day there's not a damn thing that he or anyone else can do about it.

re: Updated: Landry Reports to OTAs, Springs Still a No-Show
 

[quote=jdlea;450906]Didn't we already go through this once with a hard hitting young safety with a propensity to make a few bonehead plays? Don't read too much into this folks, it didn't hurt Sean and I doubt that it will be a big factor in regards to the development of Laron Landry.[/quote]

I don't think it will be a big factor either. But the guy has flaked on numerous autograph signing commitments, is a walking unsportsmanlike penalty, and is now flaking on offseason workouts. I think he's a phenomenal player, but thus far he's also proven he's kind of a punk.

I wanted to name this thread "Landry continues to prove he's a punk," but I would have been negative repped into my Warpath grave. ;)

re: Updated: Landry Reports to OTAs, Springs Still a No-Show
 

[QUOTE=GMScud;450917]I don't think it will be a big factor either. But the guy has flaked on numerous autograph signing commitments, is a walking unsportsmanlike penalty, and is now flaking on offseason workouts. I think he's a phenomenal player, but thus far he's also proven he's kind of a punk.

I wanted to name this thread "Landry continues to prove he's a punk," but I would have been negative repped into my Warpath grave. ;)[/QUOTE]

There were people who proposed that the team cut Sean Taylor after his rookie season for all of the "trouble" he was getting into. He was suspended for a game by Gibbs, had the whole gun charge BS to work through and (somehow this drew a lot of anger) he wanted to changes his number. Laron Landry is a kid, he'll probably see the light in a few more seasons of being around veterans and start to act more like a professional, but I don't think we've got any reason to get bent out of shape.

re: Updated: Landry Reports to OTAs, Springs Still a No-Show
 

[quote=jdlea;450919]There were people who proposed that the team cut Sean Taylor after his rookie season for all of the "trouble" he was getting into. He was suspended for a game by Gibbs, had the whole gun charge BS to work through and (somehow this drew a lot of anger) he wanted to changes his number. Laron Landry is a kid, he'll probably see the light in a few more seasons of being around veterans and start to act more like a professional, but I don't think we've got any reason to get bent out of shape.[/quote]

I hope you're right. Make no mistake, I'm not "freaking out" over this, I just think it's a mild concern worth discussing.

Laron's behavior does warrant some criticism.

re: Updated: Landry Reports to OTAs, Springs Still a No-Show
 

Why don't we post an actual quote from Zorn (according to the link from the first post here)

"I'm going to try to get a feel for why they didn't want to come ...[B]It's not something that I'm going to make a huge spectacle of.[/B] We'll just see what happens."

There's also [url=http://washingtontimes.com/weblogs/redskins/2008/Jun/02/redskins-personnel-update/]this[/url], which I actually find more peculiar. Either way, not a huge deal.

"While Zorn and defensive coordinator Greg Blache said that they hadn't heard from the missing defensive backs, teammates said they had heard from them and that each had missed his flight."

re: Updated: Landry Reports to OTAs, Springs Still a No-Show
 

[quote=SmootSmack;450922]Why don't we post an actual quote from Zorn (according to the link from the first post here)

"I'm going to try to get a feel for why they didn't want to come ...[B]It's not something that I'm going to make a huge spectacle of.[/B] We'll just see what happens."

There's also [URL="http://washingtontimes.com/weblogs/redskins/2008/Jun/02/redskins-personnel-update/"]this[/URL], which I actually find more peculiar. Either way, not a huge deal.

"While Zorn and defensive coordinator Greg Blache said that they hadn't heard from the missing defensive backs, teammates said they had heard from them and that each had missed his flight."[/quote]

Bah, it's more fun to just jump to conclusions without knowing the entire story.

re: Updated: Landry Reports to OTAs, Springs Still a No-Show
 

[quote=jdlea;450919]There were people who proposed that the team cut Sean Taylor after his rookie season for all of the "trouble" he was getting into. He was suspended for a game by Gibbs, had the whole gun charge BS to work through and (somehow this drew a lot of anger) he wanted to changes his number. Laron Landry is a kid, he'll probably see the light in a few more seasons of being around veterans and start to act more like a professional, but I don't think we've got any reason to get bent out of shape.[/quote]

It seems to me that your point actually proves the opposite point. Taylor had to go to the precipice (and have a child) before he really started growing up. I really hope Landry doesn't have to go that far. The point is that that the Redskins should cut ties with Landry, that is absurd and not one person is saying anything approaching that, it is that Landry is displaying a pattern of behavior that indicates he has some maturing left to do (and that extends onto the playing field so even if you say nothing outside of the gridiron matters than there still is cause for some concern). The odds are he'll play fine on the field, demonstrate tremendous athleticism, make some spectacular plays, but I think he also has some maturing left to do (which is not an issue for Springs, another thing that separates the two).

I also don't really like the 'he's just a kid' excuse. I'm only 2 1/2 years older than Landry and I can't just blow off committments (I know OTA's are 'voluntary', but as GMScud points out this sort of decision making extends to other arenas as well). And if I did there would be consequences. Come on.

re: Updated: Landry Reports to OTAs, Springs Still a No-Show
 

Coach was asked and he answered, of course he is not going to be happy but these are adults and the training is "voluntary" so as the coach says he's not going to make a big deal about it.

I will say that "I" personally feel that all players should be at the team facility training in the off season. How many other jobs do you know that will pay you millions of dollars a yr to "Play" a game you enjoy and not expect you to be around the office atleast a few times a week. I personally would be treating the game as a business and expect the players at the facility working out, learning the play book, running, and allowing them to take their vacations as anyone else in the work force.

I think it's funny how there are other jobs out there that are more life threatening then football and the people get paid less and they are required to be at work everyday and only get 2 days off a week. They only get 4 weeks vacation for the whole year if that. However the NFL players get a bye on the "voluntary" part. Sorry for my rant. Players sign a contract and are employees of a team, they should be at all work outs. Unless they have requested vacation or family emergencies.

I could go on....Players should have medical and dental. LOL. Retirement. I'm not saying the owners should be providing all this but it should be a manditory contract policy that the player had X number of $ taken out and put into a retirement fund as well as some form of medical/dental. Options for life insurance.

If it's such a business now then treat it like one.

re: Updated: Landry Reports to OTAs, Springs Still a No-Show
 

[quote=SC Skins Fan;450926]It seems to me that your point actually proves the opposite point. Taylor had to go to the precipice (and have a child) before he really started growing up. I really hope Landry doesn't have to go that far. The point is that that the Redskins should cut ties with Landry, that is absurd and not one person is saying anything approaching that, it is that Landry is displaying a pattern of behavior that indicates he has some maturing left to do (and that extends onto the playing field so even if you say nothing outside of the gridiron matters than there still is cause for some concern). The odds are he'll play fine on the field, demonstrate tremendous athleticism, make some spectacular plays, but I think he also has some maturing left to do (which is not an issue for Springs, another thing that separates the two).

I also don't really like the 'he's just a kid' excuse. I'm only 2 1/2 years older than Landry and I can't just blow off committments (I know OTA's are 'voluntary', but as GMScud points out this sort of decision making extends to other arenas as well). And if I did there would be consequences. Come on.[/quote]

Perfectly stated. Thank you.

re: Updated: Landry Reports to OTAs, Springs Still a No-Show
 

[QUOTE=SC Skins Fan;450926]It seems to me that your point actually proves the opposite point. Taylor had to go to the precipice (and have a child) before he really started growing up. I really hope Landry doesn't have to go that far. The point is that that the Redskins should cut ties with Landry, that is absurd and not one person is saying anything approaching that, it is that Landry is displaying a pattern of behavior that indicates he has some maturing left to do (and that extends onto the playing field so even if you say nothing outside of the gridiron matters than there still is cause for some concern). The odds are he'll play fine on the field, demonstrate tremendous athleticism, make some spectacular plays, but I think he also has some maturing left to do (which is not an issue for Springs, another thing that separates the two).

I also don't really like the 'he's just a kid' excuse. I'm only 2 1/2 years older than Landry and I can't just blow off committments (I know OTA's are 'voluntary', but as GMScud points out this sort of decision making extends to other arenas as well). And if I did there would be consequences. Come on.[/QUOTE]

I think you're misunderstanding that I don't disagree he has growing up to do, I'm pretty sure I said that myself.

I also never said that anyone on this board said anything about the Skins cutting ties with Landry. I pointed out that Sean Taylor had had some troubles and when he was skipping voluntary workouts and not returning coaches phone calls a few people suggested he should be released. I did not once imply that anyone said that about Landry.

Also, I never mentioned anything about Springs.

As for him being a kid, I don't think Zorn should totally blow it off, but as a fan, I'm not going to get bent out of shape because he doesn't show up to a [B]voluntary[/B] workout. I don't show up to voluntary things for my job all the time.

Finally, as for being marginally older than Laron, I'm only 23, but I've grown up a lot in the last 2 1/2 years. Come on.

re: Updated: Landry Reports to OTAs, Springs Still a No-Show
 

[QUOTE=GMScud;450920][B]Laron's behavior does warrant some criticism.[/B][/QUOTE]

I will agree with that. I think my point is a bit misconstrued. I'm not saying we shouldn't discuss it, I'm not even trying to justify Laron's absence, I'm more concerned that people will blow this way out of proportion when the coach doesn't seem too upset about it.

I think Laron should be there. It's a little disrespectful to a new coach to not show up to his first OTA. That would bother me a little, but if you want 100% attendance, make it mandatory. Is it something that, if I were Zorn, I'd talk to him about? Definitely. I think Laron should be there because it goes a long way to showing respect to a new coach, but like I said before, Sean went through much the same thing and Laron wasn't a huge headache off the field at LSU where it's easy to find trouble. I'm not too concerned about his missing voluntary workouts and think everything will be fine.

re: Updated: Landry Reports to OTAs, Springs Still a No-Show
 

[quote=jdlea;450942]I will agree with that. I think my point is a bit misconstrued. I'm not saying we shouldn't discuss it, I'm not even trying to justify Laron's absence,[B] I'm more concerned that people will blow this way out of proportion when the coach doesn't seem too upset about it.
[/B]
I think Laron should be there. It's a little disrespectful to a new coach to not show up to his first OTA. That would bother me a little, but if you want 100% attendance, make it mandatory. Is it something that, if I were Zorn, I'd talk to him about? Definitely. I think Laron should be there because it goes a long way to showing respect to a new coach, but like I said before, Sean went through much the same thing and Laron wasn't a huge headache off the field at LSU where it's easy to find trouble. I'm not too concerned about his missing voluntary workouts and think everything will be fine.[/quote]

Well, 20+ posts so far on this thread and it's worked out just like I hoped. Some good discussion about it, and no one freaking out yet.

And if he did in fact "miss his flight" (I don't buy that at all) and he shows up tomorrow, then we can put it to bed.

re: Updated: Landry Reports to OTAs, Springs Still a No-Show
 

[quote=jdlea;450906]Didn't we already go through this once with a hard hitting young safety with a propensity to make a few bonehead plays? Don't read too much into this folks, it didn't hurt Sean and I doubt that it will be a big factor in regards to the development of Laron Landry.[/quote]
Well one could argue that it might have cost ST his life. When he did not show up he got in trouble with the law over the ATV thing. Over that he was no longer allowed to posses a firearm and that my have had saved his life.

re: Updated: Landry Reports to OTAs, Springs Still a No-Show
 

[quote=firstdown;450944]Well one could argue that it might have cost ST his life. When he did not show up he got in trouble with the law over the ATV thing. Over that he was no longer allowed to posses a firearm and that my have had saved his life.[/quote]

That's a bit of a reach.

re: Updated: Landry Reports to OTAs, Springs Still a No-Show
 

[quote=GMScud;450945]That's a bit of a reach.[/quote]
He was trying to protect his family with a machety (spelling) against a person armed with a gun. So why is it a reach to say that by not being able to own a gun could have cost ST his life?

I really do not want to get into this but I was just responding to what another poster had said.

re: Updated: Landry Reports to OTAs, Springs Still a No-Show
 

[quote=firstdown;450947]He was trying to protect his family with a machety (spelling) against a person armed with a gun. So why is it a reach to say that by not being able to own a gun could have cost ST his life?[/quote]

Yeah, I suppose. I don't know. Seems to me that if Sean had a gun there would have been a few people killed that night, not just one.

re: Updated: Landry Reports to OTAs, Springs Still a No-Show
 

[quote=firstdown;450947]He was trying to protect his family with a machety (spelling) against a person armed with a gun. So why is it a reach to say that by not being able to own a gun could have cost ST his life?

[B] I really do not want to get into this[/B] but I was just responding to what another poster had said.[/quote]

Agreed. Def don't want to get started on this subject. Dropped.

re: Updated: Landry Reports to OTAs, Springs Still a No-Show
 

Springs and Landry showed disrespect by no-showing.
I dont even care if they missed a flight (if true)
They can call.

Bad PR makes life hard on a rookie coach and forces him into a corner.
Uncool with a vet coach....even less cool with a Rookie coach.

Me no likey

re: Updated: Landry Reports to OTAs, Springs Still a No-Show
 

Someone wake me when training camp starts.

re: Updated: Landry Reports to OTAs, Springs Still a No-Show
 

Sean was wore than what laron is doing now. Remember sean wanted a new contract after his 1st season. Laron just skipped [B]1[/B] day of OTA.

Give the kid a break!!!!

re: Updated: Landry Reports to OTAs, Springs Still a No-Show
 

Landry and Springs didn't make it to OTA's??!?!

Skip to ~8:20 of this video to get my reaction.

[yt]3xXu_9JN3YA[/yt]

re: Updated: Landry Reports to OTAs, Springs Still a No-Show
 

This is such a minor issue. The are two of the stars of this team that happened to miss the first or maybe more who cares of the non mandatory OTA's. If its mandatory thats one thing but it isn't. This certainly isn't a first missed non mandatory OTA missed for Shawn, and who really gives two shits. When it is time for them to be at camp they will be there and ready to roll!

And god for bid if they might have just happened to of missed a flight and had honestly planned on attending the first day of OTA's after all.....! Give it a rest

Redskins personnel update
Redskins 360
POSTED 1:57 PM BY David Elfin

Left guard Pete Kendall did turn up for practice and drew praise from coach Jim Zorn for running wind sprints after practice a month before his 35th birthday. However, cornerback Shawn Springs and safety LaRon Landry remained AWOL.

While Zorn and defensive coordinator Greg Blache said that they hadn't heard from the missing defensive backs, teammates said they had heard from them and that each had missed his flight.

Running back Clinton Portis was back on the field after missing some time last month with a hip flexor. However, receiver Antwaan Randle El remained out after having a knee scoped on May 5. Safety Vernon Fox was also still sidelined after having a knee scoped a week earlier.

re: Updated: Landry Reports to OTAs, Springs Still a No-Show
 

Not a big deal, but...........disappointing

re: Updated: Landry Reports to OTAs, Springs Still a No-Show
 

I pretty much agree with everyone else on this matter. Do I think it's a big deal that Springs and Landry are missing OTA's? No. Reason being when the season comes I just don't see it affecting their play at all. Springs has proven that he can handle himself fine by working out in Arizona and if history is an indicator Landry should be fine. Do I think Landry is immature and needs to grow up? Yes. He's young, he skips practices and doesn't call his coaches, he skips autograph signings and it just shows that he isn't fully committed to the team. But again that isn't going to hurt him on the field so that's not that big of a deal. I just hope that in time he will mature and start taking this a little more seriously, that's all.

re: Updated: Landry Reports to OTAs, Springs Still a No-Show
 

Landry is back on the field today...not sure what happened yesterday but its good he is back on the field.

Edited with link:

[url=http://blog.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/2008/06/landry_is_on_the_field_no_sign.html]Landry Is on the Field; No Sign of Springs - Redskins Insider[/url]

re: Updated: Landry Reports to OTAs, Springs Still a No-Show
 

[quote=jbcjr14;451091]Landry is back on the field today...not sure what happened yesterday but its good he is back on the field.[/quote]

So perhaps he did just miss a flight as reports said.

re: Updated: Landry Reports to OTAs, Springs Still a No-Show
 

Landry is an elite safety and is in incredible shape. He does not need to be monitored all off season to make sure he is working out. Mini camps and summer training camp is enough! OTA's are for rookies, scrubs looking to improve and injured vets that are rehabbing. This is not mandatory team event.
Every year we go through a thread like this. Missing OTA's does not make yo a bad person.