Devin Thomas signs, 1 to go
 

[url=http://blog.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/]Redskins Insider[/url]

Re: Devin Thomas signs, 1 to go
 

Nice, let's get Davis wrapped up and we're ready to rock!

Re: Devin Thomas signs, 1 to go
 

All righty, then! One more and we're set!

Re: Devin Thomas signs, 1 to go
 

Thats really a good look. Get Freddy signed tomorrow

Re: Devin Thomas signs, 1 to go
 

This is a great day, first thomas signs (how nice is it that we aren't paying these legends huge money compared to first round picks) and the DARK KNIGHT got released! Sounds like the perfect day for me! GO D!

Re: Devin Thomas signs, 1 to go
 

We know Davis is alwys late!

Re: Devin Thomas signs, 1 to go
 

Davis sign your F....ing contract now! You have already screwed up once. Don't do it again by being a holdout.

Re: Devin Thomas signs, 1 to go
 

Davis would be signed, but he overslept again. I don't see a 2nd round pick holding out. They're probably just straightening language out.

Re: Devin Thomas signs, 1 to go
 

I'm not that concerned, I would think that roughly 30 hours is enough to hammer out a contract for a 2nd round pick.

Re: Devin Thomas signs, 1 to go
 

Great news. Even if Davis misses camp, it's not as though our offense will be hamstrung by the absence of the presumptive #2 rookie tight end.

Re: Devin Thomas signs, 1 to go
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;457470]Great news. Even if Davis misses camp, it's not as though our offense will be hamstrung by the absence of the presumptive #2 rookie tight end.[/quote]

I agree, it was more important for the WRs to get into camp. They'll be looked towards as major red zone targets because of their size. They need to hit the ground running.

Re: Devin Thomas signs, 1 to go
 

SGG, I actually expect Fred Davis to have the largest impact right away. I think he'll get a lot of favorable matchups in the two TE sets. That said, 2nd round picks don't typically sit out. He'll be done by Saturday for camp.

Re: Devin Thomas signs, 1 to go
 

Nice that's what I wanted to hear. I also agree that Thomas was our top priority. If Davis misses a few days of camp so be it T.E isn’t really a concern going into camp.

Re: Devin Thomas signs, 1 to go
 

[quote=Daseal;457472]SGG, I actually expect Fred Davis to have the largest impact right away. I think he'll get a lot of favorable matchups in the two TE sets. That said, 2nd round picks don't typically sit out. He'll be done by Saturday for camp.[/quote]

#3 WRs are more important to your team than the #2 TE.

Either Thomas or Kelly will be the #3 WR.

Re: Devin Thomas signs, 1 to go
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10;457476]#3 WRs are more important to your team than the #2 TE.

Either Thomas or Kelly will be the #3 WR.[/QUOTE]Have you already forgotten about our future Hall of Famer, Anthony Mix?!?! Blasphemy!!!

If he finds out about this he will sprint all the way up to PA to beat you like a redheaded step-child and still make it back for the start of camp tomorrow morning.

Re: Devin Thomas signs, 1 to go
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10;457476]#3 WRs are more important to your team than the #2 TE.

Either Thomas or Kelly will be the #3 WR.[/QUOTE]

I thought Zorn said he was going to move Randle El to the slot (effectively making him #3) which would mean that one of the rookies will have to be a starter.

Re: Devin Thomas signs, 1 to go
 

Thrash is going to be in the number two spot to start, only because of his familiarity with the WEST COAST offense he learned from FAT ANDY REID THE LANDLORD OF THE DRUG EMPORIUM! Look for the rookie WR's to be in on 4 reiever sets... Greg Novis reported that Fred Davis is willing to sign his contract now if they pay him in Flavor Flav style clocks, YEAH BOY!

Re: Devin Thomas signs, 1 to go
 

[QUOTE=LandrySlice;457483]Thrash is going to be in the number two spot to start, only because of his familiarity with the WEST COAST offense he learned from FAT ANDY REID THE LANDLORD OF THE DRUG EMPORIUM! Look for the rookie WR's to be in on 4 reiever sets... Greg Novis reported that Fred Davis is willing to sign his contract now if they pay him in Flavor Flav style clocks, YEAH BOY![/QUOTE]

I'm not even sure Thrash will make the team, but I can tell you with 100% certainty that he will not be the #2 wide reciever.

Re: Devin Thomas signs, 1 to go
 

This was by far the best part of what JLC wrote in the blog:
[quote=JLC in Redskins Insider] Davis and Thomas had been among a group of players already in town, working out daily at Redskins Park, and eager to report.[/quote]

I've heard that they (and Kelly) have been working extensively with Campbell in hopes of making an immediate impact on offense. Good news..

Re: Devin Thomas signs, 1 to go
 

I'm so f*&^ing excitted the SKINS are about to start camp, can't wait for HOF game i know it will be watered down but nevertheless lets get started already. HAIL TO THE SKINS

Re: Devin Thomas signs, 1 to go
 

[QUOTE=Daseal;457472]SGG, I actually expect Fred Davis to have the largest impact right away. I think he'll get a lot of favorable matchups in the two TE sets. That said, 2nd round picks don't typically sit out. He'll be done by Saturday for camp.[/QUOTE]

I know Zorn will use 2 TE sets and Davis sounds like a promising player. But, I would be stunned if he managed to compile 300 yards receiving. So, I just don't see him being a vital cog in our wheel.

Re: Devin Thomas signs, 1 to go
 

SGG, I have him at about 300 yards -- and I think that's better than the rookie WRs will get. Don't get me wrong, I like the WR picks, I just don't see them getting a lot of playtime this year unless were either way ahead or if we do so poorly we're 100% out of the running for a playoff spot.

Re: Devin Thomas signs, 1 to go
 

[QUOTE=Daseal;457495]SGG, I have him at about 300 yards -- and I think that's better than the rookie WRs will get. Don't get me wrong, I like the WR picks, I just don't see them getting a lot of playtime this year unless were either way ahead or if we do so poorly we're 100% out of the running for a playoff spot.[/QUOTE]

If you don't see them getting much playing time, who is going to be in on 3, 4 and 5 WR sets? They are primarily going to be matched up with nickel and dime CB, not expected to come in and become the #1 & 2 options from what's been coming out of RP.. I expect them to both put up decent 3rd & 4th WR numbers (30-35 catches, 350-400 yds, 2-4 TD) their rookie year...

Re: Devin Thomas signs, 1 to go
 

It is a lock Thrash makes the team, I am willing to put some sort of bet on it... YEAH BOY!

Re: Devin Thomas signs, 1 to go
 

I won't be surprised to see Thomas starting very early on.

Re: Devin Thomas signs, 1 to go
 

Paintrain: First, lets just scratch off 6 for Oline / QB for every place. That leaves us 5 to play with. I bet around 95% of the plays will have a RB, so 4 players. I see us running a lot of two TE sets with two WRs. If we go 3 WRs, I expect us to see a lot of Moss, Thrash, El, and at this point, I think Mix is next in line. The rookies will have a few packages, but won't have a lot. At this point it's all speculation, but it's my guess that Davis will be the most productive of the rookies.

Re: Devin Thomas signs, 1 to go
 

[QUOTE=Daseal;457500]Paintrain: First, lets just scratch off 6 for Oline / QB for every place. That leaves us 5 to play with. I bet around 95% of the plays will have a RB, so 4 players. I see us running a lot of two TE sets with two WRs. If we go 3 WRs, I expect us to see a lot of Moss, Thrash, El, and at this point, I think Mix is next in line. The rookies will have a few packages, but won't have a lot. At this point it's all speculation, but it's my guess that Davis will be the most productive of the rookies.[/QUOTE]

I'd be VERY surprised if Mix starts the season higher in the rotation than Thomas or Kelly.. I'd also be very surprised to see us in a lot of 2 TE sets, Gibbs is gone ya know.. :-) I expect Zorn to be running 3-4 WR a lot more than we've seen since the 'Ole Ball Coach..

Re: Devin Thomas signs, 1 to go
 

This is outstanding! I really feel as if we got him at a steal of a price too. I was hoping to get him for more years, but once he breaks out he'll expect to renegotiate anyway. What a steal!

Re: Devin Thomas signs, 1 to go
 

[quote=Daseal;457500]Paintrain: First, lets just scratch off 6 for Oline / QB for every place. That leaves us 5 to play with. I bet around 95% of the plays will have a RB, so 4 players. I see us running a lot of two TE sets with two WRs. If we go 3 WRs, I expect us to see a lot of Moss, Thrash, El, and at this point, I think Mix is next in line. The rookies will have a few packages, but won't have a lot. At this point it's all speculation, but it's my guess that Davis will be the most productive of the rookies.[/quote]

Seriously Daseal, what are you smoking? I want some.

Anthony Mix, a guy who has caught all of 3 balls in his career, is going to be ahead of Devin Thomas, who just came off a 79-catch 1260 yard season with 8 TDs in the Big 10?

You don't pick a player on whom you place a first round grade to then put him behind waiver wire bums.

Re: Devin Thomas signs, 1 to go
 

[quote=Schneed10;457529]Seriously Daseal, what are you smoking? I want some.

Anthony Mix, a guy who has caught all of 3 balls in his career, is going to be ahead of Devin Thomas, who just came off a 79-catch 1260 yard season with 8 TDs in the Big 10?

You don't pick a player on whom you place a first round grade to then put him behind waiver wire bums.[/quote]I would say that if he hasn't passed Mix on the depth chart by opening day, that would be a pretty huge negative indicator about his future.

Re: Devin Thomas signs, 1 to go
 

[quote=jsarno;457510]This is outstanding! I really feel as if we got him at a steal of a price too. I was hoping to get him for more years, but once he breaks out he'll expect to renegotiate anyway. What a steal![/quote]

The price was pretty much set on him as soon as we selected him 34th overall. The draft slot determines the contract value, there's only a few thousand dollars worth of wiggle room.

So we got the standard value for a 2nd round pick.

If you're happy with the low investment, it's mainly because you like the price on 2nd round pick talent. Not because the Skins did anything special to strike a favorable deal. We got the value for the money on draft day, not today.

Lots of teams get great value from their 2nd-4th rounders. Finally we have the potential to be one of them, after picking 5 guys in those rounds this year.

Re: Devin Thomas signs, 1 to go
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10;457544]The price was pretty much set on him as soon as we selected him 34th overall. The draft slot determines the contract value, there's only a few thousand dollars worth of wiggle room.

So we got the standard value for a 2nd round pick.

If you're happy with the low investment, it's mainly because you like the price on 2nd round pick talent. Not because the Skins did anything special to strike a favorable deal. We got the value for the money on draft day, not today.

Lots of teams get great value from their 2nd-4th rounders. Finally we have the potential to be one of them, after picking 5 guys in those rounds this year.[/QUOTE]

I thought they could negotiate any contract they wished? For instance if he felt he was a first round talent, and wanted 5 years 15 mil or something like that? Is there on a cap on it on something?

Re: Devin Thomas signs, 1 to go
 

[quote=jsarno;457546]I thought they could negotiate any contract they wished? For instance if he felt he was a first round talent, and wanted 5 years 15 mil or something like that? Is there on a cap on it on something?[/quote]Yeah, except then the team says:

"No."

And that's pretty much the end of the 5 years 15 mil tomfoolery. But to answer your question, there's technically no cap.

Re: Devin Thomas signs, 1 to go
 

[quote=jsarno;457546]I thought they could negotiate any contract they wished? For instance if he felt he was a first round talent, and wanted 5 years 15 mil or something like that? Is there on a cap on it on something?[/quote]

Yeah there kind of is a cap on it, it's called the rookie pool. The NFL lays out a "cap within the cap." In other words, you have your normal salary cap for your entire team which all your players have to fit under, and your rookies have to all fit under a certain smaller number within the larger cap.

This year the Skins had a rookie pool limit of $4.5 million. Meaning the cap hits in 2008 for their 10 rookies combined had to be under $4.5 million.

So that's one force in place preventing the numbers from getting too high. But further, market forces dictate that draft picks outside of the first round pretty much get a standard contract according to draft order. Typically, teams look at what the same pick from last year's draft got, and apply an inflation factor. So the Skins probably looked back at the 34th pick of 2007, found the numbers from his deal, and started there.

As more and more draft picks signed around Thomas, it gave the 'Skins and Thomas even narrower parameters. He theoretically should get more than the 35th pick, but less than the 33rd.

In the end, Thomas is free to negotiate for as much money as he wants. But he certainly can't ask for more than the rookie pool limit would allow, because the 'Skins literally can't give that to him. And he's got little standing to ask for something out of line with last year's 34th pick, or more than this year's 33rd pick got. So his choice is take that standard deal, or hold out forever.

When you're coming into a team with Santana Moss and Antwaan Randle El already here, plus another talented rookie signed, you better just take whatever deal and get your ass into camp. If you want to make an impact to one day make the big bucks, you're going to need all the practice you can get.

Re: Devin Thomas signs, 1 to go
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10;457549]Yeah there kind of is a cap on it, it's called the rookie pool. The NFL lays out a "cap within the cap." In other words, you have your normal salary cap for your entire team which all your players have to fit under, and your rookies have to all fit under a certain smaller number within the larger cap.

This year the Skins had a rookie pool limit of $4.5 million. Meaning the cap hits in 2008 for their 10 rookies combined had to be under $4.5 million.

So that's one force in place preventing the numbers from getting too high. But further, market forces dictate that draft picks outside of the first round pretty much get a standard contract according to draft order. Typically, teams look at what the same pick from last year's draft got, and apply an inflation factor. So the Skins probably looked back at the 34th pick of 2007, found the numbers from his deal, and started there.

As more and more draft picks signed around Thomas, it gave the 'Skins and Thomas even narrower parameters. He theoretically should get more than the 35th pick, but less than the 33rd.

In the end, Thomas is free to negotiate for as much money as he wants. But he certainly can't ask for more than the rookie pool limit would allow, because the 'Skins literally can't give that to him. And he's got little standing to ask for something out of line with last year's 34th pick, or more than this year's 33rd pick got. So his choice is take that standard deal, or hold out forever.[/quote]

I had no idea...thanks for explaining it.
So does this mean the NFL chooses the rookie pool limit for EACH team?

[quote]When you're coming into a team with Santana Moss and Antwaan Randle El already here, plus another talented rookie signed, you better just take whatever deal and get your ass into camp. If you want to make an impact to one day [b]make the big bucks[/b], you're going to need all the practice you can get.[/QUOTE]

Sorry, I agree, but had to make this comment...
if I had the 4.83 mil that he is getting over 4 years, I'd never have to work again. I'd call that big bucks! ;)

(note- I understand your point, just being sarcastic.)

Re: Devin Thomas signs, 1 to go
 

[quote=jsarno;457553]I had no idea...thanks for explaining it.
So does this mean the NFL chooses the rookie pool limit for EACH team?[/quote]Yep. I think they have a formula for it though based on the factors of slots at which you selected at, and market inflation.

Re: Devin Thomas signs, 1 to go
 

[quote=jsarno;457553]I had no idea...thanks for explaining it.
So does this mean the NFL chooses the rookie pool limit for EACH team?
[/quote]

Yes they do. It varies for each team. The more picks you made in the draft, and the higher those picks are, the higher your rookie pool allotment.

Here's an article on ESPN summarizing how it works, and a table showing the rookie pool allotments by team in 2008:

[url=http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3385956]ESPN - Chiefs get largest rookie pool to pay draft picks - NFL[/url]

Re: Devin Thomas signs, 1 to go
 

I think the rookie wideouts have a better chance of having an impact than Davis initially, if only because

1) 2nd TEs are normally the blocking TE
2) We'll run more 3 and 4 WR sets than 2 TE sets (just based on the breakdown of what the Seahawks ran against us in the playoffs last year)
3) Todd Yoder is still on the team

The Seahawks 2nd TE caught 14 passes. The Broncos 2nd TE (Daniel Graham) caught 24 passes. The Packers 2nd TE 18. The Colts 2nd TE caught 31. Point being, 2nd TEs do have an impact, but considering we have a young quarterback he is probably going to be more likely at checking down to the RB and FB than scanning the field and going to his 5th option which would be the 2nd TE.

Re: Devin Thomas signs, 1 to go
 

[quote=memphisskin;457568]I think the rookie wideouts have a better chance of having an impact than Davis initially, if only because

1) 2nd TEs are normally the blocking TE
2) We'll run more 3 and 4 WR sets than 2 TE sets (just based on the breakdown of what the Seahawks ran against us in the playoffs last year)
3) Todd Yoder is still on the team

The Seahawks 2nd TE caught 14 passes. The Broncos 2nd TE (Daniel Graham) caught 24 passes. The Packers 2nd TE 18. The Colts 2nd TE caught 31. Point being, 2nd TEs do have an impact, but considering we have a young quarterback he is probably going to be more likely at checking down to the RB and FB than scanning the field and going to his 5th option which would be the 2nd TE.[/quote]

Good points, I'd be surprised if Davis catches more than 20-25 passes.

Re: Devin Thomas signs, 1 to go
 

[quote=memphisskin;457568]I think the rookie wideouts have a better chance of having an impact than Davis initially, if only because

1) 2nd TEs are normally the blocking TE
2) We'll run more 3 and 4 WR sets than 2 TE sets (just based on the breakdown of what the Seahawks ran against us in the playoffs last year)
3) Todd Yoder is still on the team

The Seahawks 2nd TE caught 14 passes. The Broncos 2nd TE (Daniel Graham) caught 24 passes. The Packers 2nd TE 18. The Colts 2nd TE caught 31. Point being, 2nd TEs do have an impact, but considering we have a young quarterback he is probably going to be more likely at checking down to the RB and FB than scanning the field and going to his 5th option which would be the 2nd TE.[/quote]

Yeah, good post. On top of all this, Zorn is said to be seeking to find ways to get Portis more involved in the passing game as a receiver. More plays will be designed to go to him.