Jason Campbell article (CBS Sports)
 

ASHBURN, Va. -- Even though there isn't a glimmer of a quarterback controversy in Washington, I'll pose the question: If Todd Collins outplays Jason Campbell in the team's five exhibition games, any chance he wins back a job that was his at the end of last season?

[URL="http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/story/10905810"]"No," [/URL]new coach Jim Zorn said, leaving no room for interpretation.




[URL="http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/story/10905779"]Redskins: Five things to know[/URL]

Re: Jason Campbell article (CBS Sports)
 

I remember Gibbs saying Ramsey was his guy. I take anything these coaches say with a huge grain of salt.

Re: Jason Campbell article (CBS Sports)
 

Ugh let's not even start that up again.

JC is clearly the guy they are committed to for the season. Collins at his age is not the future and Colt is too green. It's Campbell or bust right now.

Re: Jason Campbell article (CBS Sports)
 

doesn't matter who 'the guy' is. if he doesn't do 'the job', there's always another guy

Re: Jason Campbell article (CBS Sports)
 

Or somehow get Farve... ;-)

Re: Jason Campbell article (CBS Sports)
 

[QUOTE=irish;458994]I remember Gibbs saying Ramsey was his guy. I take anything these coaches say with a huge grain of salt.[/QUOTE]

Ramsey was the guy....for Week 1. But I don't think Zorn's commitment to JC is identical to Gibbs' commitment to Ramsey. We all knew that Ramsey was on a very short leash and wasn't Gibbs' first choice.

Zorn, on the other hand, hasn't said or done anything which would indicate that he prefers Collins to Campbell. In fact, as the article points out, Zorn said that he doesn't care if Collins really outplays Campbell in the preseason. Moreover, Zorn was supposedly hired to, at least in large part, to coach up JC. So, I find it hard to believe that he would pull JC early in the season and implicitly admit that he failed to achieve one of his top objectives (i.e., turn our first round talent into real production).

Re: Jason Campbell article (CBS Sports)
 

Here's my JC question.

Let's say JC plays mediocre during the first half of the season. At what point can you say "Oh... this guy isn't for real. He's obviously not an NFL caliber QB, and we need to move on". Can we even say that after this season?

Does he get to play sub-average the entire season with the excuse of "Learning a new system" or something like that. I guess my question is, how bad does Jason Campbell have to play in order to get the boot.

I tend to think he'll get an entire season (even if we become eliminated from playoff contention early) to figure out the system. Wouldn't it be nice to see him turn a corner this year... can't wait until the season starts.

Re: Jason Campbell article (CBS Sports)
 

Very good article, I like the mindset Zorn came in with in order to stop all the hype around a QB contriversy. Campbell knows he needs to come through this year or the hammer is gonna drop on him! Also, I am very proud to welcome the one and only Greg Novis to the WARPATH!

Re: Jason Campbell article (CBS Sports)
 

[QUOTE=RobH4413;459014]Here's my JC question.

Let's say JC plays mediocre during the first half of the season. At what point can you say "Oh... this guy isn't for real. He's obviously not an NFL caliber QB, and we need to move on". Can we even say that after this season?

Does he get to play sub-average the entire season with the excuse of "Learning a new system" or something like that. I guess my question is, how bad does Jason Campbell have to play in order to get the boot.

I tend to think he'll get an entire season (even if we become eliminated from playoff contention early) to figure out the system. Wouldn't it be nice to see him turn a corner this year... can't wait until the season starts.[/QUOTE]

I'm of the opinion that he gets this whole season and maybe the start of next. I really don't think it's fair to judge a guy on 20 starts and 7 coordinators in 8 years (going back to college).

It's retarded how quickly the systems chage in Washington. It's time to establish some stability. I'm hoping that's Zorn and Campbell.

Re: Jason Campbell article (CBS Sports)
 

Thats the fun of having Snyder as an owner, who knows what direction he's going in next. I pray he has learned patience from Gibbs, and lets Zorn do his thing and not make it a one and done like some suspect

Re: Jason Campbell article (CBS Sports)
 

[QUOTE=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;459011]Ramsey was the guy....for Week 1. But I don't think Zorn's commitment to JC is identical to Gibbs' commitment to Ramsey. We all knew that Ramsey was on a very short leash and wasn't Gibbs' first choice.

Zorn, on the other hand, hasn't said or done anything which would indicate that he prefers Collins to Campbell. In fact, as the article points out, Zorn said that he doesn't care if Collins really outplays Campbell in the preseason. Moreover, Zorn was supposedly hired to, at least in large part, to coach up JC. So, I find it hard to believe that he would pull JC early in the season and implicitly admit that he failed to achieve one of his top objectives (i.e., turn our first round talent into real production).[/QUOTE]

Gibbs said PR was his guy and if memory serves most people on this site ripped me when I said otherwise. IMO that means most didnt think PR was on any kind of a leash. I agree that Zorn doesnt seem to prefer TC to JC but there is no way Zorn will let the ship go down with JC at the helm. If JC isnt getting it done TC will become the starter. This is a make or break year for JC. Either he starts getting it done or Zorn & Co. move on.

Re: Jason Campbell article (CBS Sports)
 

Was anyone really surprised when Ramsey got yanked? He didn't do anything to solidify himself as the guy, and Brunell was Gibbs' handpicked QB. And in the end the team went 10-6 and made the playoffs. Tough to argue with the results.

Re: Jason Campbell article (CBS Sports)
 

[quote=irish;459025]Gibbs said PR was his guy and if memory serves most people on this site ripped me when I said otherwise. IMO that means most didnt think PR was on any kind of a leash. I agree that Zorn doesnt seem to prefer TC to JC but there is no way Zorn will let the ship go down with JC at the helm. If JC isnt getting it done TC will become the starter. This is a make or break year for JC. Either he starts getting it done or Zorn & Co. move on.[/quote]

TC will become the started, or we'll find away to aquire a differnt QB.

Re: Jason Campbell article (CBS Sports)
 

[quote=Mattyk72;459026]Was anyone really surprised when Ramsey got yanked? He didn't do anything to solidify himself as the guy, and Brunell was Gibbs' handpicked QB. And in the end the team went 10-6 and made the playoffs. Tough to argue with the results.[/quote]

And if JC doesn't "do anything to solidify himself as the guy" none of should be surprised when he also gets yanked.

Re: Jason Campbell article (CBS Sports)
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;459026]Was anyone really surprised when Ramsey got yanked? He didn't do anything to solidify himself as the guy, and Brunell was Gibbs' handpicked QB.[/QUOTE]

I think almost everyone was surprised PR was yanked before the 3rd quarter of the 1st game was over. I predicted by the 4th game and was laughed at by everyone on this site because Gibbs said PR was his QB and there was no questioning what Gibbs said.

Re: Jason Campbell article (CBS Sports)
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;459026]Was anyone really surprised when Ramsey got yanked? He didn't do anything to solidify himself as the guy, and Brunell was Gibbs' handpicked QB. And in the end the team went 10-6 and made the playoffs. Tough to argue with the results.[/QUOTE]

I was surprised and very much against the decision at the time. In retrospect, it probably was the right decision. (Ramsey hasn't done anything to show us, the Jets or Broncos that he's starter material). He has to go down as a bust.

I'm hoping for a little leeway with JC this year. The reports I have heard out of camp so far have been less than encouraging but it's still early. The worst thing the fans can do is start clamoring for the back up before the season begins.

Re: Jason Campbell article (CBS Sports)
 

[QUOTE=jdlea;459019]I'm of the opinion that he gets this whole season and maybe the start of next. I really don't think it's fair to judge a guy on 20 starts and 7 coordinators in 8 years (going back to college).[/QUOTE]

agreed. but with an asterisk: if campbell does not prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that he is 'the guy' this year, he does not get a contract extension, we draft another qb and have an open competition next offseason between the rookie, brennan and campbell.

personally, i think he mainly needs to improve at reading defenses. if it weren't for bad reads (which lead to interceptions) late in the games against the cowboys and the bucs, we could easily have been 11-5.

Re: Jason Campbell article (CBS Sports)
 

[QUOTE=hesscl34;459027]TC will become the started, or we'll find away to aquire a differnt QB.[/QUOTE]

I really hope you're wrong. Todd Collins should have looked better last year, he knew the system inside and out. He is the consumate backup quarterback, the guy can come in and get the job done, but he's not a starter in this league. If Zorn starts Collins, I'm not going to be a happy man.

There are usually growing pains with a young quarterback. That's the nature of the beast when you install a young QB. It's naive to think that anyone should have the same sort of success Brady and Rothlisberger had immediately. Look at Peyton Manning, he was brutal his first season, but they let him learn. Most guys don't do well when they first become a starter in the NFL.

This argument about how long to give a young quarterback is one that doesn't really have a solution. I really hope, though, that Zorn doesn't have the quick hook that you're implying he should.

Re: Jason Campbell article (CBS Sports)
 

[QUOTE=J. Spanky;459038]agreed. but with an asterisk: if campbell does not prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that he is 'the guy' this year, he does not get a contract extension, we draft another qb and have an open competition next offseason between the rookie, brennan and campbell.

[B]personally, i think he mainly needs to improve at reading defenses. if it weren't for bad reads (which lead to interceptions) late in the games against the cowboys and the bucs, we could easily have been 11-5.[/B][/QUOTE]

I see your point, however, the pick against the Boys I had a problem with because you can't run a fade route with Santana Moss. It was a horrible route to a small reciever. I think that his year, with some bigger recievers, those sorts of throws will start to go away.

He's going to have issues this season. He needs to progress as the year goes on, but for anyone who thinks there won't be any growing pains this year (with a new offense, head coach, O coordinator) is crazy.

Re: Jason Campbell article (CBS Sports)
 

[QUOTE=jdlea;459042]He's going to have issues this season. He needs to progress as the year goes on, but for anyone who thinks there won't be any growing pains this year (with a new offense, head coach, O coordinator) is crazy.[/QUOTE]

absolutely. but i think there is more pressure on the defense to maintain (or, hopefully, increase) their level of play. we have too much talent on offense to be much worse than we were last year, despite growing pains. i don't think any of our starters approached their potential except cooley and randle el.

Re: Jason Campbell article (CBS Sports)
 

[QUOTE=J. Spanky;459043]absolutely. but i think there is more pressure on the defense to maintain (or, hopefully, increase) their level of play. we have too much talent on offense to be much worse than we were last year, despite growing pains. i don't think any of our starters approached their potential except cooley and randle el.[/QUOTE]

I agree, we just have to hope that the line isn't decimated and nagging injuries to recievers. That also hurt them last season.

Re: Jason Campbell article (CBS Sports)
 

[quote=jdlea;459039]I really hope you're wrong. Todd Collins should have looked better last year, he knew the system inside and out. He is the consumate backup quarterback, the guy can come in and get the job done, but he's not a starter in this league. If Zorn starts Collins, I'm not going to be a happy man.

There are usually growing pains with a young quarterback. That's the nature of the beast when you install a young QB. It's naive to think that anyone should have the same sort of success Brady and Rothlisberger had immediately. Look at Peyton Manning, he was brutal his first season, but they let him learn. Most guys don't do well when they first become a starter in the NFL.

This argument about how long to give a young quarterback is one that doesn't really have a solution. I really hope, though, that Zorn doesn't have the quick hook that you're implying he should.[/quote]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana][/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]You mean we shouldn't expect the kind of success that Romo is having? [/FONT][/COLOR]

Re: Jason Campbell article (CBS Sports)
 

I think JC is going to be OK but I'm not totaly sold on him as of right now. Can anyone tell me of a game where JC has lead a comback victory late in a game?

Re: Jason Campbell article (CBS Sports)
 

[QUOTE=hesscl34;459049][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana][/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]You mean we shouldn't expect the kind of success that Romo is having? [/FONT][/COLOR][/QUOTE]

Not unless we have the line and receivers that Romo has at his disposal, IMO. And let's not get too crazy, Romo has been effective, but he's won exactly the same amount of playoff games as JC...

Re: Jason Campbell article (CBS Sports)
 

[quote=BleedBurgundy;459053]Not unless we have the line and receivers that Romo has at his disposal, IMO. And let's not get too crazy, Romo has been effective, but he's won exactly the same amount of playoff games as JC...[/quote]


ha ha.. this is just funny...

Re: Jason Campbell article (CBS Sports)
 

After hearing Zorn's interview on Redskins.com last night, I really feel like TC is the odd man out. This is all my opinion. He really has high hopes for Derek Devine.

Re: Jason Campbell article (CBS Sports)
 

[quote=DIRTEE;459067]After hearing Zorn's interview on Redskins.com last night, I really feel like TC is the odd man out. This is all my opinion. He really has high hopes for Derek Devine.[/quote]

Isn't Derek like our #4 QB or something? I'm sure he was just praising his hard work in practice and nothing more...

Re: Jason Campbell article (CBS Sports)
 

this is the make or break year for Campbell in my eyes. I don't want to end up like the Bears or Tampa but he needs to step up.

Re: Jason Campbell article (CBS Sports)
 

[quote=BleedBurgundy;459036]I was surprised and very much against the decision at the time. In retrospect, it probably was the right decision. (Ramsey hasn't done anything to show us, the Jets or Broncos that he's starter material). He has to go down as a bust.

I'm hoping for a little leeway with JC this year. The reports I have heard out of camp so far have been less than encouraging but it's still early. The worst thing the fans can do is start clamoring for the back up before the season begins.[/quote]

Honestly I think those that were surprised or against the decision probably were members of the Pat Ramsey man-crush club, either that or the Brunell haters club.

If Ramsey tore it up in the preseason and was lighting it up against the Bears in that season opener I highly doubt he would have gotten the quick hook, but we've been over this a million times so I'll drop it now.

Here's to hoping that JC never gives Zorn a reason to yank him unless it's due to injury.

Re: Jason Campbell article (CBS Sports)
 

[quote=hesscl34;459049]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]You mean we shouldn't expect the kind of success that Romo is having? [/FONT][/COLOR][/quote]
NO. Coaching is huge, especially for a young QB. Romo had 3 years to sit and learn from Sean Payton, who I would say is a pretty good QB coach. Plus, Romo won all kind of awards in college (DI-AA), and was highly rated every year in passing efficiency. Campbell had Bill Lazor and a bunch of turmoil on offense between Gibbs & Saunders. Give JC this year with Zorn, if he has not improved significantly by the end of the year I'm sure Zorn will "do the right thing" in the off-season.

But, I'll bet you a case of Sam Adams that Campbell will have a significantly better year than last.

Re: Jason Campbell article (CBS Sports)
 

I'm still surprised at some of the skepticism about JC. I think he's looked quite promising from the beginning. Playing for a legendary coach that had gotten seriously conservative & almost paranoid about turnovers, might've added even more pressure. Not that he didn't gain from Gibbs, everybody did, but it probably added to the stress of the job.

I wouldn't say JC's main problem is reading defenses. I think he's shown very good awareness of the field, until his 2nd & 3rd recievers aren't open, then he panics. If he tucked it in a ran a few times (last year's dallas & TB games) we could've gotten a couple more wins.

In those games I think he showed that he struggled w/the finer details of timing in the position. Some qb's might have that more naturally, that sense of pass rush & knowing when to throw it away,etc. Most have to learn it through game experience & that's what he's been doing. I think by mid season he's due for a breakout & if the rookie wr's can chip in w/3-4 wr sets, this O could be dangerous.

Re: Jason Campbell article (CBS Sports)
 

[QUOTE=freddyg12;459113]I wouldn't say JC's main problem is reading defenses. I think he's shown very good awareness of the field, until his 2nd & 3rd recievers aren't open, then he panics. If he tucked it in a ran a few times (last year's dallas & TB games) we could've gotten a couple more wins.[/QUOTE]

that's true. but that's part of the read. he has to recognize when his receivers are covered but he has a running lane. especially in the red zone and/or with the game on the line. it takes time and i'm very confident we'll see less of those mistakes this year.

Re: Jason Campbell article (CBS Sports)
 

[QUOTE=J. Spanky;459248]that's true. but that's part of the read. he has to recognize when his receivers are covered but he has a running lane. especially in the red zone and/or with the game on the line. it takes time and i'm very confident we'll see less of those mistakes this year.[/QUOTE]

I don't really know if we are going to see less mistakes this year... especially with the new offense being implemented. We aren't going to learn this thing just during the preseason.

Re: Jason Campbell article (CBS Sports)
 

[QUOTE=hesscl34;459049][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana][/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]You mean we shouldn't expect the kind of success that Romo is having? [/FONT][/COLOR][/QUOTE]

We should hope for that kind of success, but to expect it is wishful thinking. I hate to admit it, but Romo is one of the best QBs in the league. We got JC knowing that he was a "project." Moreover, JC has just 1 year's worth of starting experience under his belt. Finally, JC is learning his third system and is having his mechanics toyed with by yet another QB coach. So, to expect JC to come in and put up Pro Bowl stats is a little unrealistic.

I personally think that we should stick with Campbell through thick and thin this year and evaluate his progress and our options next offseason. I'm tired of going through QBs, yanking the chain, moving on, and starting all over again. Franchise QBs don't grow on trees and we should try to exercise the patience that is usually required to develop one.

Re: Jason Campbell article (CBS Sports)
 

[QUOTE=Slingin Sammy 33;459111]I'll bet you a case of Sam Adams that Campbell will have a significantly better year than last.[/QUOTE]

I think JC is a good QB and I want to stick by him, but I'm not 100% sure he'll look a lot better this year than he did last year. Even Zorn said he expects JC to take a season before he really nails down the offense and starts reacting instead of thinking (can't find the link right now).

Re: Jason Campbell article (CBS Sports)
 

[QUOTE=Slingin Sammy 33;459111]NO. Coaching is huge, especially for a young QB. Romo had 3 years to sit and learn from Sean Payton, who I would say is a pretty good QB coach. Plus, Romo won all kind of awards in college (DI-AA), and was highly rated every year in passing efficiency. Campbell had Bill Lazor and a bunch of turmoil on offense between Gibbs & Saunders. Give JC this year with Zorn, if he has not improved significantly by the end of the year I'm sure Zorn will "do the right thing" in the off-season.

But, I'll bet you a case of Sam Adams that Campbell will have a significantly better year than last.[/QUOTE]


Can I get in on that bet, I LOVE BEER!

Re: Jason Campbell article (CBS Sports)
 

[quote=LandrySlice;459275]Can I get in on that bet, I LOVE BEER![/quote]
No problem, you're on.

It'll be Dec. or Jan. before this is decided, hmmm should I go with the Octoberfest, Winter Lager or the regular Boston Lager? Any one tastes better when it's free...LOL :food-smil

Re: Jason Campbell article (CBS Sports)
 

[QUOTE=Cowell;459252]I don't really know if we are going to see less mistakes this year... especially with the new offense being implemented. We aren't going to learn this thing just during the preseason.[/QUOTE]

haha, no. don't misunderstand me. i said less of THOSE mistakes. meaning, i'm confident he will improve his reads, as this SHOULD come naturally with experience.