RI: Taylor Puts on a Defensive Show
 

In further Jason Taylor news, he participated fully and took part in all team drills. In fact, Jasno reports that, with first-team offense going against first-team defense, he tossed Jon Jansen to the ground "like a wet rag" a good three yards behind the quarterback on one play That generated a chorus of "oohs" from the sidelines.

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Re: RI: Taylor Puts on a Defensive Show
 

Is it possible to be both happy and concerned about this? A wet rag for a starting tackle....not so good. It'll be nice seeing McNabb, Manning and Romo all get crushed this year though.

Re: RI: Taylor Puts on a Defensive Show
 

I don't know if this is good news or not. Glad to hear that the Plantar is not hindering Jason but I am concerned about Jansen's lack of mobility. I think are best right tackle will be Stephon Heyer once he get's healthy. Jon is still good on running downs but he is vulnerable on passing downs. Also I don't like the fact that Jason communicated it like that. Am I reading too much into it.

Re: RI: Taylor Puts on a Defensive Show
 

[quote=PSUSkinsFan21;464031]Is it possible to be both happy and concerned about this? A wet rag for a starting tackle....not so good. It'll be nice seeing McNabb, Manning and Romo all get crushed this year though.[/quote]
Well if he was three yards past the QB when he tossed him to the ground it sounds like Jansen blocked him as he rushed past the QB who should have thrown the ball durn that time. Its also just one play they are talking about.

Re: RI: Taylor Puts on a Defensive Show
 

Heyer wouldn't have done any better. JT is an elite DE and most likely headed for the HoF. There are few, if any, tackles in the league that can stop him. My concerns with Jansen aren't based on the fact he gets beat by JT -- that's what should happen.

Re: RI: Taylor Puts on a Defensive Show
 

[quote=PSUSkinsFan21;464031]Is it possible to be both happy and concerned about this? A wet rag for a starting tackle....not so good. It'll be nice seeing McNabb, Manning and Romo all get crushed this year though.[/quote]

yeah, good news & bad news. That RT spot might be a concern all year. I hope it's just taking JJ a while to get back to form. He's past his prime though.

Heyer might've been a good success story last year but that doesn't mean he's ready to hold down the position full time. He was 'relatively good' last year, but certianly not 'good.'

Re: RI: Taylor Puts on a Defensive Show
 

I wouldn't read into it much. Have we heard any stories about OL tossing guys around in practice this preseason? I haven't. But I'm sure it's happened. It's just a sexier story when it's Jason Taylor doing the tossing around.

Re: RI: Taylor Puts on a Defensive Show
 

[quote=ChillWill;464032]I don't know if this is good news or not. Glad to hear that the Plantar is not hindering Jason but I am concerned about Jansen's lack of mobility. I think are best right tackle will be Stephon Heyer once he get's healthy. Jon is still good on running downs but he is vulnerable on passing downs. Also I don't like the fact that Jason communicated it like that. Am I reading too much into it.[/quote]
The same Heyer who got burnt like crisp toast in the playoffs last year and was thrown around like a wet rag.

Re: RI: Taylor Puts on a Defensive Show
 

For the Heyer supporters there was a clip on NFLN not too long ago and JT schooled him too.

Re: RI: Taylor Puts on a Defensive Show
 

[quote=GhettoDogAllStars;464037]Heyer wouldn't have done any better. JT is an elite DE and most likely headed for the HoF. There are few, if any, tackles in the league that can stop him. My concerns with Jansen aren't based on the fact he gets beat by JT -- that's what should happen.[/quote]

true, but he'll have to go against some pretty good ends this year. Anthony Spencer is young & quick, Philly always has a good d line & of course the g-men have pass rushers even w/out strahan.

Re: RI: Taylor Puts on a Defensive Show
 

[QUOTE=firstdown;464040]The same Heyer who got burnt like crisp toast in the playoffs last year and was thrown around like a wet rag.[/QUOTE]

I'm hoping that this will not be one soggy side of the field this year. As I watched that playoff game it sure seems like Stephon needed more help to chip that DE. I'm sure Buges will get them ready cause the Giants will certainly give us an indication of where we are.

Re: RI: Taylor Puts on a Defensive Show
 

Let's not get all up in arms over this. Jason Taylor is a much better pass rusher than Jon Jansen ever was a pass blocker. That's all there is to this.

Jansen will be able to handle non-Taylor left ends just fine.

In fact, here's who he will be blocking this year: Justin Tuck, Charles Grant, Victor Adeyanju, Darren Howard/Chris Clemons, Greg Ellis, Bertrand Berry, Willie McGinest, DeWayne White, James Harrison/Lawrence Timmons, Patrick Kerney, Jarrett Johnson, Antwaan Odom, and Justin Smith. Out of all those guys, only Tuck, Grant, White, Johnson, and Odom are in their primes. Tuck might give Jansen fits, but the rest of the year, he's more than capable of picking up his assignments.

Maybe we'll need a new tackle next year, but we're okay this year, at least for now.

Re: RI: Taylor Puts on a Defensive Show
 

Thanks for the informative post GTripp. I am, however, a little more pessimistic about Jansen. Justin Tuck, Charles Grant, Greg Ellis, Bertrand Berry, and Patrick Kerney are all better DEs than Jansen is an OT.

Jansen has been MIA lately, but, in the limited action I've seen him in, he has looked bad. He looked bad last preseason and he's looked sub-par this preseason. I'm pretty concerned about him.

Re: RI: Taylor Puts on a Defensive Show
 

[quote=Mattyk72;464042]For the Heyer supporters there was a clip on NFLN not too long ago and JT schooled him too.[/quote]
If I'm correct JT has never had a sack against the Skins.

Re: RI: Taylor Puts on a Defensive Show
 

[quote=ChillWill;464048]I'm hoping that this will not be one soggy side of the field this year. As I watched that playoff game it sure seems like Stephon needed more help to chip that DE. I'm sure Buges will get them ready cause the Giants will certainly give us an indication of where we are.[/quote]
I was just kind of repeating what was said about Jansen and saying it about Heyer. I think even though Heyer had a bad playoff game I think he is going to be fine this year and will see the field alott.

Re: RI: Taylor Puts on a Defensive Show
 

[QUOTE=PSUSkinsFan21;464031]Is it possible to be both happy and concerned about this? A wet rag for a starting tackle....not so good. It'll be nice seeing McNabb, Manning and Romo all get crushed this year though.[/QUOTE]

I'm not concerned. Jansen is a big dude and a fierce competitor. He's gonna get Taylor back for that one! Don't know how, but he will!

Re: RI: Taylor Puts on a Defensive Show
 

I'll take my chances w/ Jansen even though he seems like he has struggled a little this preseason.

I'll echo that all the Heyer supporters out there better hope Heyer doesn't get in b/c he's just not ready. A good prospect but has had issues too.

Re: RI: Taylor Puts on a Defensive Show
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;464071]Thanks for the informative post GTripp. I am, however, a little more pessimistic about Jansen. Justin Tuck, Charles Grant, Greg Ellis, Bertrand Berry, and Patrick Kerney are all better DEs than Jansen is an OT.

Jansen has been MIA lately, but, in the limited action I've seen him in, he has looked bad. He looked bad last preseason and he's looked sub-par this preseason. I'm pretty concerned about him.[/quote]I am also concerned, but I look at it this way: Jansen's struggles in pass pro have stood out like a sore thumb. Of course, that's only half the game, as his run blocking has been impressive enough thus far to go unnoticed.

Additionally, a lot of left ends in the NFL still have their first priority to anchor against the run. What the Colts have done is leading a revolution of sorts, getting two smaller ends to get pressure on the QB in an ever passing league, but our schedule features a lot of guys who are older and aren't really a threat to consistently beat Jansen in the same way that Uminorya owned Winston Justice last year.

Since the true pass rushers he will be facing are few and far between, his old player skills should translate into a somewhat effective season.

For the record, if Jansen is going to get replaced, I'd like to see Rinehart get the first crack. I would feel great about it if we went into 2009 with Rinehart starting at RT given the success that guys like Sean Locklear and David Diehl have had switching from G to T.

Re: RI: Taylor Puts on a Defensive Show
 

[quote=firstdown;464040]The same Heyer who got burnt like crisp toast in the playoffs last year and was thrown around like a wet rag.[/quote]

Exactly. Heyer got his ass handed to him at Seattle. Kerney owned him. But after watching Jansen in the limited amount he's played, his pass blocking lookes weak. But he was awesome in the run game against Buffalo.

Re: RI: Taylor Puts on a Defensive Show
 

[quote=GTripp0012;464088]I am also concerned, but I look at it this way: Jansen's struggles in pass pro have stood out like a sore thumb. Of course, that's only half the game, as his run blocking has been impressive enough thus far to go unnoticed.

Additionally, a lot of left ends in the NFL still have their first priority to anchor against the run. What the Colts have done is leading a revolution of sorts, getting two smaller ends to get pressure on the QB in an ever passing league, but our schedule features a lot of guys who are older and aren't really a threat to consistently beat Jansen in the same way that Uminorya owned Winston Justice last year.

Since the true pass rushers he will be facing are few and far between, his old player skills should translate into a somewhat effective season.

For the record, if Jansen is going to get replaced, I'd like to see Rinehart get the first crack. I would feel great about it if we went into 2009 with Rinehart starting at RT given the success that guys like Sean Locklear and David Diehl have had switching from G to T.[/quote]

I don't think we'll see Rinehart at RT. He's probably going to take over for Kendall.

Re: RI: Taylor Puts on a Defensive Show
 

[quote=skinsfan69;464100]I don't think we'll see Rinehart at RT. He's probably going to take over for Kendall.[/quote]I'll be satisfied with his selection either way, but it would be great if he could play RT. Guards are easy to find.

Re: RI: Taylor Puts on a Defensive Show
 

With jason taylor on one side andre carter on the other our d line is as fast as any in the league.If erasmus james can emerge oh boy i cant wait.John jansen will be fine as long as he does not get hurt again.He just needs to play a lot to get back his technique.

Re: RI: Taylor Puts on a Defensive Show
 

about time the skins have a guy that can get after the qback. and anyone have any news on how James at practice is going?

Re: RI: Taylor Puts on a Defensive Show
 

One other silver lining here is that our O-line, and our tackles in particular, get to practice against JT and AC pretty much every day. Facing that level of competition in practice will make them better against the rest of the league. And it will keep them from getting complacent and lazy, which is a problem with some of these big heavy dudes.

I agree that the bigger issue with Jansen is health over the season. My guess is he'll get a fair degree of help in the passing game, given Samuels on the other side. He's a slow starter, as everyone's said, and it's still early. But he's going to have to get going soon, or we may start shuffling bodies there.

One other note: with Buges away, I wonder if the o-line is a bit down? No one lights a fire under an o-line likes Buges, so when he's away, folks may be a little less focused. Kind of like having a substitute teacher--not the best for discipline.

Overall, be glad we've got two guys who can threaten the passer from the d-line. How long has it been since we could say that?

Re: RI: Taylor Puts on a Defensive Show
 

[QUOTE=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;464071]Thanks for the informative post GTripp. I am, however, a little more pessimistic about Jansen. Justin Tuck, Charles Grant, Greg Ellis, Bertrand Berry, and Patrick Kerney are all better DEs than Jansen is an OT.

Jansen has been MIA lately, but, in the limited action I've seen him in, he has looked bad. He looked bad last preseason and he's looked sub-par this preseason. I'm pretty concerned about him.[/QUOTE]

IMO you are too kind Sheriff. JJ looked awful last preseason - watching replays of those games I kept thinking his days are over. Soooooo slow, he was getting beat over and over. I think it's rationale to expect he'll be even more arthritic this season, and this for a guy who has been pretty outspoken about not taking care of himself.

All that aside, I think Chad R. will be at RT before long. I know he is technically Kendall's backup but Kendall is proving more durable than JJ. Also, Heyer still looks covered in baby-fat head to toe. Don't see him as a legit tackle yet. Rhinehardt will be good though. O-line should be solid if we can keep injuries to minimum.

Re: RI: Taylor Puts on a Defensive Show
 

The think the supposed downfall of Jon Jansen is seriously overblown.

Re: RI: Taylor Puts on a Defensive Show
 

Jansen has been terrible in recent years...blame it on injuries or whatever you want to, but the bottom line is the guy cant pass protect for his life.

Re: RI: Taylor Puts on a Defensive Show
 

It is a good sign but I remember when I went to camp back in 2003 I saw some white guy that didn't even make the team beat Champ Bailey on a fade route. Shit happens in camp so I'm with the people saying don't read to much into it. Also saw Chad Morton get into a fight with Jesse Armstead that day....happy face :D (jk lol).

Re: RI: Taylor Puts on a Defensive Show
 

[QUOTE=Dirtbag359;464198]It is a good sign but I remember when I went to camp back in 2003 I saw some white guy that didn't even make the team beat Champ Bailey on a fade route. Shit happens in camp so I'm with the people saying don't read to much into it. [B]Also saw Chad Morton get into a fight with Jesse Armstead that day....happy face :D[/B] (jk lol).[/QUOTE]

I was getting an autograph from Chad Morton moments before that happened.

Re: RI: Taylor Puts on a Defensive Show
 

[quote=Mattyk72;464166]The think the supposed downfall of Jon Jansen is seriously overblown.[/quote]

You can't deny that his pass protection has been pretty bad so far. He's been beat pretty bad the first two games.

Re: RI: Taylor Puts on a Defensive Show
 

Jon Jansen is done by week 5 this year. It will either be injury or benching. I think the guy is done. He's getting absolutely abused in pre-season. I know Heyer hasn't been great, but at this point I consider him a better option. Regardless of who's there we'll be having to give them some help.

Re: RI: Taylor Puts on a Defensive Show
 

[QUOTE=Daseal;464339]Jon Jansen is done by week 5 this year. It will either be injury or benching. I think the guy is done. He's getting absolutely abused in pre-season. I know Heyer hasn't been great, but at this point I consider him a better option. Regardless of who's there we'll be having to give them some help.[/QUOTE]

I hope it's not Heyer. I won't deny that he may be a steal down the road, but today he doesn't have the strength IMO (especially leg strength) and he definitely lacks the mean streak that make o-lineman feared in this league.

Chad R. showed a serious mean streak in Iowa. Statistically I think he put more guys on the ground than any other o-lineman in the division last year. That shows he's tough and he stays with blocks. Too bad we haven't heard Buges raving about him so far, but I still think he will end up starting this year.

Re: RI: Taylor Puts on a Defensive Show
 

I just thought it's sort of funny how this thread about JT turned into a debate about JJ - I bet there will be threads throughout the season with basically the same title but then we'll actually talk about how dominant JT is because we won't give a shit who he's putting to shame :)

Re: RI: Taylor Puts on a Defensive Show
 

[QUOTE=The Goat;464565]I just thought it's sort of funny how this thread about JT turned into a debate about JJ - I bet there will be threads throughout the season with basically the same title but then we'll actually talk about how dominant JT is because we won't give a shit who he's putting to shame :)[/QUOTE]

Interesting yes, but suprising, no.
If JT did this to Samuels, we'd all be freaking out (in a good way)
But preseason chatter here the last 2 preseasons has been concern about Jansens decline in performance.
To me, Heyer aint the answer...the only option is this.
Jansen must improve...cause Wade aint that great either and the rookie aint ready yet

Re: RI: Taylor Puts on a Defensive Show
 

[QUOTE=skinsnut;464566]Interesting yes, but suprising, no.
If JT did this to Samuels, we'd all be freaking out (in a good way)
But preseason chatter here the last 2 preseasons has been concern about Jansens decline in performance.
To me, Heyer aint the answer...the only option is this.
Jansen must improve...cause Wade aint that great either and the rookie aint ready yet[/QUOTE]

Wow. If that's our only option I'm worried. I mean I don't feel all that comfortable putting so much faith in a rook but he was considered the top lineman in the division and at least he's shown himself to play w/ a mean streak.

If we, meaning Bugel for the most part, went into the season expecting JJ to be competitive all year long '08 could look similar to '07 in the trenches.

Re: RI: Taylor Puts on a Defensive Show
 

[quote=firstdown;464075]If I'm correct JT has never had a sack against the Skins.[/quote]

Well, we only play the Phins once every 4 years, so that's not really saying much.

I think Jansen is slowly on his way out. I said this in a previous post- I think 2008 will be the last year he really sees much time as a starter. He's way past his prime and simply hasn't looked good at all. I wouldn't say it's the "downfall" of Jansen as Matty put it, but guys become injury prone and/or less effective (both of those apply to JJ), and they are eventually phased out.

Most people around here, me included, have stated more than once the need to get younger on the O-line. Of the aging guys up front (Kendall excluded), there's no doubt in my mind JJ will be the first to go...

Re: RI: Taylor Puts on a Defensive Show
 

There is no doubt in my mind JJ is on the way out. We have a good line (when healthy), but I think it's on the down. I think JJ has one more decent year in him and then from there it's only a matter of time until our whole line begins to deteriorate. We really need to begin building our line up via the draft.

Re: RI: Taylor Puts on a Defensive Show
 

I think people need to calm down with this. So Jensen has lost a step, and yes he's old. But he is healthy, and I hope we get the most out of him this year. We have some good backups, and hopefully Jensen will stay healthy for the whole season so backups like Heyer can continue to develop. Also, I remind everyone that Jensen hasn't played in a while, and maybe he's just getting his stuff together during preseason, and it is not in regular season shape yet. I think as long as JJ or any of the starters stay healthy, we should be fine.